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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cornwall => Topic started by: Lazarus on Thursday 13 December 07 05:08 GMT (UK)

Title: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 13 December 07 05:08 GMT (UK): I am looking for the marriage of Nicholas Harry bC1834 who I believe to be the son of Nicholas Harry and Jane/Jennifer Harry.
According to the 1861 Census Brays Place,Nicholas is a tin miner aged 27 and he has a wife Elizabeth aged 24 born St Austell.
Although the ages do not fit,the following children are listed as sons and daughter: James Skinner Harry 17 tin miner
John S Harry 14 tin miner
William S Harry 12 scholar
Elizabeth A Harry 10 scholar
All were born St Austell.
The name Skinner may be a clue.
There is a burial 20.12.1875 at St Austell of a Nicholas Harry aged 42,so if this is him he should have been around in 1871.
Jane/Jennifer (Hammer) Harry was a widow aged 58 at another Brays Place address as was a son Henry aged 16.
Can someone please help with a marriage and perhaps explain the Skinner connection.
Help appreciated.
Title: Re: Nicholas Harry bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 13 December 07 05:52 GMT (UK): Since posting my original query,I have discovered on the 1871 Census Meniar Downs ST Austell,the following:
Title: Re: Nicholas Harry bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 13 December 07 05:57 GMT (UK): My mistake.
!871 Census Meniar Downs St Austell:
Nicholas Harry 38 tin miner born St Austell
Elizabeth Harry 45 his wife born St Austell
No sign of any children.Brings into question,age of Elizabeth which may have been mis stated 1861 Census.
Title: Re: Nicholas Harry bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 13 December 07 13:44 GMT (UK): Hi Lazarus

Marriage:
Nicholas Harry and on same page Elizabeth Skinner
Mar q 1856
St Austell
vol 5c p 232

As you said ... The children's ages do not make sense in 1861... I wonder if they were Elizabeth's siblings? I will look for Elizabeth in 1851 and see where she is and who her family were.

deb :D
Title: Re: Nicholas Harry bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 13 December 07 14:00 GMT (UK): I can't find any births for the children under the names Skinner Harry

I have found these possibles;
St Austell
Elizabeth A Skinner Dec q 1850
John Skinner Mar q 1847
William Skinner Dec q 1848

These match the ages in 1861

umm a bit of a mystery ... will look further

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas Harry bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 13 December 07 14:31 GMT (UK): Hi Lazarus ....

I think Elizabeth may have been fibbing about her age in 1861 and I think she was married previously....

in 1851
St Austell.
Thomas Skinner head mar 28 tin miner
Elizabeth wife mar 25...... this age matches the 1861 census
James son 8
Melinda dau 6
John son 4
William son 2
Elizabeth A dau 4 months
John Tonkin 56 father in law

all the children's ages add up to the children in 1861

marriage: ??
Thomas Skinner to Elizabeth Toster... this may be mistranscribed too ...
Sept q 1842
St Austell
Cannot seem to find a Skinner/Tonkin marriage ...will keep on looking ...

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas Harry bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 13 December 07 14:33 GMT (UK): Melinda SKINNER
died:
Mar q 1855
St Austell
vol 5c p 120

deb :'(
Title: Re: Nicholas Harry bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 13 December 07 14:57 GMT (UK): possible death for Thomas Skinner

Sept q 1851
Truro
Vol 9 p 205

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas Harry bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 13 December 07 15:10 GMT (UK): Hi again

In 1881
St Austell
Union rd , Mount Charles
Elizabeth HARRY head wid 55
Cathalena MELLEN gr dau 13 scholar b St Austell

It looks like this is her daughter's Marriage:
Elizabeth Ann SKINNER = Tom MELLEN
Sept q 1867
St Austell

I am sure the other of her children will be found under the Skinner name and not Harry. It now seems as though Nicholas Harry did not have any children with Elizabeth.
:-\
deb
Title: Re: Nicholas Harry bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 13 December 07 18:12 GMT (UK): Great work Deb.I think this pretty much explains the family.Early morning here.Are you able to confirm the 1875 death of Nicholas Harry aged 42?His brother John Hammer Harry came to Australia C1864.
Title: Re: Nicholas Harry bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 13 December 07 18:23 GMT (UK): Hi lazarus ...

I think the death of Nicholas Harry is quite plausible as Elizabeth is widowed by 1881. It looks like a great match ...wonder what he died of? I also wonder about her 1st husband, Thomas Skinner ..he seems to have died a few months after his last child was born !

:'(

deb ... shout if you need more :D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 13 December 07 20:42 GMT (UK): Thank you Deb.I had made a note of a burial 20.12.1875 for a Nicholas Harry at St Austell aged 42 but do not recall the source.
I am now considering if Henry Harry bC1844,brother of Nicholas and John Hammer Harry who did come to Australia,may have joined his brother here.I will make a new request re Henry.
I appreciate your help.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 13 December 07 21:00 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

According to BMD

Nicholas HARRY
b 1832
died Dec Q 1875
St Austell

vol 5c p 94

if you order death cert ...it will hopefully confirm that it is him ..

deb :D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 13 December 07 21:07 GMT (UK): Thank you Deb. I only had his bpt. date 1834 so this looks like him.
Have you noticed my posting regarding his brother Henry?
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 13 December 07 22:59 GMT (UK): The 1851 Census for the Skinners(Skinnar),has John Tonkin father in law aged 56 living with them.I wonder if this is a clue given the 1842 marriage of Thomas Skinner to Elizabeth "Toster".

I have also noticed other Harry families at Union Rd in 1861 not yet connected to "my" known Harry families.

No.133 Union Rd
Thomas Harry 26
Mary A Harry 25
Charles Harry 1month

No.155 Union Rd
William H Harry 29
Mary Harry 26
John Harry 4
Clara Jane Harry 1

The men are all tin miners.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 13 December 07 23:13 GMT (UK): arrrgggghhhh Rex ... all these Harry families have to be connected ...

I am really thinking that Elizabeth "Toster" was a mistranscription ...as I did go through all the marriages and there was nothing remotely like a Harry/Tonkin marriage .

Okay Rex ... you are wanting to connect to the Harry families ...

I have read some of your previous postings ...but start to get confused ... I think that you should lay down who YOUR people are and who you are wanting to connect to .... the guy that was 'mugged'/thrown overboard ' I assume .... arrgghhh what an end to his life ...sounds like PeterPan etc ...lol

hopefully we can find the link

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 13 December 07 23:40 GMT (UK): Thank you Deb.
This is really a challenge.
My great grandfather John Hammer Harry 1837-1915 came to Australia "Blanche Moore" arriving Feb 1864.He was the son of Nicholas Harry and Jane/Jennifer Hammer.The family has been located 1841 Western Boscundle,1851 Hornick and Bucklers and 1861 Brays Place.
I am trying to resolve the connection to the other families at Brays Place.

I think the posting you refer to concerned John Harry b1821 St Austell,s/o Henry Harry and Christian/Kitty Blight.He married Maria Hammer from St Mewan at St Austell on 11 Nov 1841.I am told that John drowned Rio Grande De Sol,Brazil.
I think Maria Hammer is related to my Jane/Jennifer Hammer but it is the Harry connection which I am trying to achieve.

The family of Henry Harry C1796,Christian Blight 1796 and their children: John 1821,Henry 1824,Mary 1826,Charles 1827,William 1832,Thomas 1835,Joseph 1837 and Elizabeth 1845.
They were living West Boscourt Rd St Austell in 1841 and in 1851 some of them were living at 59 Brays Place Charlestown St Austell.

I hope this gives you sufficient detail to make sense of it.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 14 December 07 00:44 GMT (UK): REx ...

Blimey I have a similar thing with my Waterfields of Tavistock that cannot be connected and yet they all live in the same lane ...arrghhh

okay...so John Hammer Harry is the brother of Nicholas Harry who married Elizabeth Tonkin/Skinner...he had no children with her and died 1875, st austell. Both were sons of Nicholas Harry and J Hammer.

okay ..late here and cannot concentrate ...this has to go back to their grandparents , I am thinking ...will look tonorrow ...sleep tight..

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 14 December 07 02:09 GMT (UK): Thanks Deb
You have deserved some rest.Middle of the day here but sometimes I can't see the woods for the trees.
In casr it helps the previous generation at St Stephen in Brannel was:
William Harry 1771 St Kew d1835 Hornick married 22.4.1797 St Stephen in Brannel,Isabel Trethewy 1774-1862.
Children were: all at St Stephen in Brannel
Philippa 1798 = William Peard
Nicholas 1800= Jane/Jennifer Hammer
Ann 1802= George Gummough
Isabel 1807= William Roberts
William1810 =Kitty Bullon
Caroline 1813=Philip Hooper
John 1816 died 1816
Fanny/Francis 1819 = William Martyn
Sophia 1821=John Cowlyn/Cowling
Eleanor Hurry 1804 don't know what became of her.
I have details of each of the families.

Previous generation was at St Kew
Matthew Harry b1731 St Kew = 16.6.1763 St Kew,Elizabeth Benallack.
Their children:
John 1766-1816 St Kew
Elizabeth 1768-1774 St Kew
William 1771 St Kew d1835 St Stephen in Brannel = Isabel Trethewy
Elizabeth 1774 St Kew d??? = Edward Truscott
Matthew 1776-1776 St Kew
Richard 1778 St Kew-1845 St Breock = Philippa Thomas--- no children

Previous generation at St Kew.
William Harry b1733 = Philippa Lynam 1862 -1746 (She was widow of John Lynam)
Children:
Matthew 1731
William 1717
Doreth 1719
Richard ??? no dates but mentioned in Will.
Gap in ages unexplained.

Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 14 December 07 18:35 GMT (UK): Hi Rex.... arrggghhhh ... :o ;D

I have been trying to wrap my brain around your Harry rellies .... I took a "stroll" through St Austell and St stephens in Brannell today just to try and figure out who is who ...

In 1841 ...St Austell

we have Henry Harry 45 with wife Christian/ Kitty (Blight) 40 and children:
John 20 (= maria hammer), Charles 14, william 9, Thomas 6 and Joseph 4

also we have Nicholas harry 40 with wife Jane (Hammer) 35 and kids:
maria 15, william 12, Jane 9, Nicholas 7 (= Elizabeth Tonkin/Skinner) , John 4
and Sophia 2m.

In St Stephen in 1841 we have
Caroline Harry 24 working as a servant

also
Robert Trethewy 35
Isabella Harry 65
next door
William Harry 30 with Kitty Harry(Bullon) 20 and kids;
Christhanath 6, William henry 4 and John 10months

Is Nicholas Harry, 50 carpenter and wife Eleanor 40 who are living in Maugan in Meneage yours?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1851 in St Austell

Kitty Harry (Blight) 53 with Charles 23, William H 20, thomas 16 and elizabeth 6 ..Brays Place

Union Rd
John Harry (the buckaneer? ) 30 with Maria (Hammer) 27 and children Mary 9, Elizabeth 6 , Anna jane 3 and Christina

Bucklers
Jane Harry ( Hammer) 46 and kids;
Jane 20, Nicholas 18, John 14, Sophia 10 , henry 7

---------------------------------------------------------------

1861 ... St Austell

Brays place
Nicholas Harry 27 with wife Elizabeth Tonkin/Skinner and children

Kitty Harry b 1799 .. nee Blight
next door to her is the Mellen Family (including son Tom) ...Elizabeth Ann Skinner (d/o Elizabeth Tonkin/Skinner/Harry) married Tom Mellen

Jane Harry 58 ..... nee Hammer and her son Henry 11

Okay ...... errrr .... ummm we are trying to find the connection between Nicholas Harry and henry Harry

eekkk

deb :D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 14 December 07 19:45 GMT (UK): Good morning Deb. 6am here.Thank you.
I will try to respond line by line.
The 1841 family of Henry Harry and Kitty Blight at present is still to be connected to my Harrys despite their son John marrying Maria Hammer.This Henry was born Gwinnear 1796 and is a son of Charles Harry and Mary Nancarrow.Data for this unlinked family was provided by a Harry contact several years ago.He cannot explain the connection.

Nicholas,Jane and family are my main line.

I think Caroline is mine bC1813 d/o William Harry and Isabel Trethewy.She married Philip Cooper Dec Qtr 1848

Not sure exactly where Robert Trethewy fits in but must be related to Isabel Trethewy.

William Harry who married Kitty Bullon 5.9.1834 is a son of William Harry and Isabel.The children belong to William and Kitty.

I am yet to identify Nicholas (carpenter) and Eleanor.

1851 Brays Place
Kitty (Blight) Harry and children but Elizabeth her niece.Again anothers data unconnected so far.

Union Rd
This is the buccaneer and family.They also had Joseph 1852.
Still unconnected.

Bucklers
Jane Harry (widowed) and kids.This is my main line.

1861 St Austell

We agreed yesterday regarding the Skinner connection to my Nicholas.

Kitty (Blight) Harry bpt.1796 St Mewan died workhouse 1875.
Becomes very interesting with Mellen/Skinner family next door.

Widow Jane (Hammer) Harry and son ( ? age 16 not 11) definitely mine.
There is a possibility that Henry may have come to Australia Jan 1871 as there was a Henry Harry 26 who came on "Norfolk" but not confirmed as no trace of him.

It is now 6.45 am Either a slow thinker or slow typist.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 14 December 07 21:22 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

Geezzz this is proving difficult ... :o :-\ LOL

I am trying to think if there were other ways they could all be related ... I am still thinking ...LOL

I found this on Pallot's

Rachel Blight (w) = Wm Harry (soj.)
1794 St Agnes

maybe the Hammer/Blights/Harrys all intermarried geneartion by generation ... eekkk

deb ..... :-\
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 14 December 07 21:48 GMT (UK): Hello Deb
Imagine my frustration.
I am advised that the parents of Christian/Kitty Blight,were John and Elizabeth Blight of St Mewan.Perhaps Rachel was her sister.Just noticed she was a widow.

So far as I can see the families at Union Rd are still unconnected ie:
No;133 Thomas Harry 26
Mary A Harry 25 ? nee Northey
Charles 1 month

No:155 William H Harry 29
Mary Harry 26
John Harry 4
Clara Jane Harry 1

Thomas and William H were brothers and sons of Henry and Christian.
I wonder what the H stands for on William H Harry?
My contact for these families may be ill or elderly and not currently answering my email.

I appreciate your efforts very much.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 14 December 07 22:10 GMT (UK): Hi Deb
I have confirmation that Elizabeth Skinner was nee Tonkin.Her father John is on the 1851 Census with her.
The IGI has Elizabeth Tonkin bapt. 22 May 1826,daughter of John and Ann.

I checked the IGI for children of John Blight and Elizabeth.Their children are Ephraim 8.4.1792,Elizabeth 5.4.1795 and Christian 8.10.1797,all at St Mewan.

I did find on the IGI:
Rachel Blight
= 12 Sep.1795 Saint Agnes near Truro
William Harry

The name is Harris on another entry.

Still looking.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 15 December 07 00:18 GMT (UK): rex ... i will be back soonish ... 7;15pm Friday here ...you are already in tomorrow LOL .....

we WILL find it ...the connection that is ... ;)

Wonder which Blight son Rachel (who married a Harry) married ?

deb :)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Saturday 15 December 07 00:51 GMT (UK): Thank you Deb
Co incidently there is another Harry family posting which has just bobbed up.I have not checked it out thoroughly yet but it appears to be the other Harry family which I am trying to connect to.
It mentions a Wesley Harry who happens to be my original source of the other data.
I hope you can spot it and follow what I am referring to.I have offered a reply to the item.

What a coincidence.Spooky.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Saturday 15 December 07 04:21 GMT (UK): Deb
The Harry Family posting which I referred to was by "delanne" on 6 Mar 07 =>Emigrants to Australia.I am hoping for a response.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Saturday 15 December 07 21:48 GMT (UK): Good morning Deb.
Perhaps another approach will assist.
Here is data provided me in 1998 by Wesley Harry.I have not been able to connect my Harry families at St Austell with these also at St Austell.There has to be a connection.

Henry Harry bpt 17 Apr 1796 Gwinnear died 27 Jan 1850 Westling Down St Austell.
He married 1 Jul 1820 St Austell
Christian/Kitty Blight bpt 8 Oct 1796 died 2 Oct 1875 St Austell workhouse.
Children:
John b1821 bpt 3 Jun 1822 St Austell died Oct 1865 Rio Grande De Sol,Brazil
Henry b1824 bpt 2 Jan 1825 St Austell died 1 Feb 1832 St Austell aged 9
Mary b1826 bpt 21 May 1826 St Austell died 12 Jan 1827 aged 7 months
Charles b1827 bpt 1 Jun 1828 St Austell
William b1832 St Austell
Thomas b1835 St Austell died 29 Sep 1887 St Austell
Joseph b1837 St Austell
Elizabeth b1845

Thomas Harry above married 27 Jan 1856 St Austell
Mary Ann (Northey) bpt 29 May 1836 St Austell d4 Dec 1920 Exmouth,Devon
Children:
Charles b1858 St Austell died 19.2.1859 ??
Samuel b1862 St Austell ? died America =Sara Ida Bleathman
Claudia b9 Nov 1864 St Austell died 23 Apr 1905 Abberdare,Wales

The Henry Harry family were at West Boscourt Rd St Austell in 1841
The Thomas Harry family were at Union Rd St Austell in 1871
In 1851 Thomas his widowed mother Kitty,brothers and a sister were living at Brays Place

Did you find the other topic?

Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 15 December 07 21:58 GMT (UK): Hi Rex...

I am off to a Christmas party ....and have had M-i-L b-day aswell ... I will read all tomorrow whenI have time to get my head around all your Harrys...There HAS to be a connection

:) :D

deb ...have a good one !
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Saturday 15 December 07 22:19 GMT (UK): Hello Deb
I wanted to catch you before you start enjoying yourself.I have just noticed that the IGI has Pedigree Resource Files for Charles Harry.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Sunday 16 December 07 15:53 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

I have read the other thread re: Samuel Harry ...seems like a very brave man. Interestingly enough, my gr granddad fought in France and is commemorated at the Pozieres memorial. Samuel Harry also fought at Pozieres!

back to finding the connection ...

deb :D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Sunday 16 December 07 21:59 GMT (UK): Hi Deb
I received an email from J.Webber who is familiar with the "other" Harrys.I think she raised the Harry family query on the Australia board.I am still to reply to her as I fear she may know about the families of Charles Harry and Mary,also Henry Harry and Christian.She comments that Harry is a common name in the area of St Austell.
Did you look at the Pedigree Resource Files on the IGI?
The mystery continues.We need a sense of humour.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Sunday 16 December 07 22:04 GMT (UK): Quote from: Lazarus on Sunday 16 December 07 21:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Deb
We need a sense of humour.
Rex

maybe we should be searching for Harry HAMMER Harry ;D ;D ;D

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Monday 17 December 07 01:11 GMT (UK): Deb
It occurs to me that I have not accounted for John Hammer Harry in 1861.He did not arrive Melbourne until 1864 so it might help if we could find him in 1861.He wasn't with his mother or brother.Would it be possible for you to check for him?
Thaks
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 December 07 01:39 GMT (UK): Rex

I am so confused with all the harrys.... okay John Hammer Harry born when and where and who are his parents ....

I will look for him ... wish they ahd used names like ... Napoleaon or something similar LOL ... I am keeping a sense of humour ...LOL

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Monday 17 December 07 03:49 GMT (UK): Hello Deb
John Hammer Harry was a son of Nicholas Harry and Jane/Jennifer Hammer.He was bpt 26 Mar 1837 St Mewan.
He came to Aust. arriving Feb 1864 on "Blanche Moore".
I don't know where he was in 1861 but in 1841 he was aged 4 and living with his parents and siblings at Western Boscundle.
His father died 1846.In 1851 he was living with his widowed mother and siblings at Bucklers.In 1861 his mother and brother Henry only were living at Brays Place.
The men/boys were all miners.
Obviously John's second name came from his mothers maiden name.
Sorry to throw you such a difficult one.
I have been Harry Who all my life.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 December 07 04:19 GMT (UK): Rex ...

Late here ...will search tomorrow ... I love a challenge ...the Harrys are it LOL

have a good day ......while I am sleeping LOL ;)

deb :D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Monday 17 December 07 04:45 GMT (UK): Thaks Deb
Mid afternoon here.Will press on.Looking for inspiration not perspiration.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 December 07 12:58 GMT (UK): Hi ...morning

back on the hunt :D

1861:

Is the William H Harry born 1837, st Austell who is working up in London as a linen draper, yours?
There are a few Harrys up there including a Nicholas .... No sign of John Hammer harry yet ........

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Monday 17 December 07 17:35 GMT (UK): Good morning Deb
I have no reason to believe that this William H Harry is mine.I think that they were all tin miners.
After John Hammer Harry arrived Australia (1864),he married in Beechworth Victoria ( 3 Aug 1865 ),Elizabeth Ann Wellington born St Buryan from a mining family.She was quite young and I assume they met in Australia.

Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Monday 17 December 07 23:51 GMT (UK): Hello again Deb
This morning I received email from Jose Webber in UK.
She has knowledge of Claudia Harry and Isaac Brentnall,also their respective forefathers but no answer to our riddle.She has offered to "do some poling around".
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Monday 17 December 07 23:57 GMT (UK): Hi rex

Dinner time here ...I have search , unsucessfully, for John ...I even looked at Wales ...Just in case ...no luck ...where the h*ll is he??

arrggghhhhhhhhh ;D ;D ;D

WHERE IS JOHN HAMMER HARRY ?? ............... COME OUT COME OUT WHEREVER YOU ARE....... 8)

DEB
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Tuesday 18 December 07 05:34 GMT (UK): Hello Deb
Out of desperation I have been slowly looking at my copy of of the 1861 Census for St Stephen in Brannel.I noticed a whole block of "unreadables",mainly clay workers etc.I am guessing that this might explain why we cannot find our missing John Hammer Harry.
Her are some samples of what I found:

48,Unreadable,William Martyn,head,M,42,,China Clay Labourer,St Stephens Cornwall
,,, Fanny Martin,wife,M,43,, St Stephens Cornwall
,,,Unreadable Cowling,Niece,,,St Blazey Cornwall,,
,,,Unreadable Harry,Border,W,86,pauper,St Stephens Cornwall,,

William Martyn married 1842 Fanny/Francis Harry d/o William & Isabel Harry.
I think unreadable Cowling,niece is a daughter John Cowling and Sophia Harry.
I also think Unreadable Harry,is Isabel Harry,widow of William Harry

47,Unreadable,1,Philip Hooper,Head,M,41,,China clay labourer,St Austell Cornwall
,,,Caroline Hooper,wife,M,,45,, St Stephens Cornwall
,,,Fanny Hooper,Dau,,11,,St Stephens Cornwall

Caroline Harry d/o William and Isabel married Phillip Hooper 1848.Fanny is their daughter.

No sign of John Hammer Harry but I intend checking St Austell for "unreadables"

Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 19 December 07 19:55 GMT (UK): Good morning Deb
Still no luck in finding John Hammer Harry.He did end up in Australia.
I have noticed that the unconnected Harrys do cross paths at St Austell locations such as Union Rd Mt Charles and also Brays Place.Trying to find a common thread.They were all tin miners.Both groups have a Hammer connection.

Perhaps we should be looking more at the other families ie The children of Charles Harry and Mary Nancarrow were born Illoga,Camborne,Phillack and Gwinnear late 1700s.There were 9 children.It was child number7 Henry who married Christian Blight and raised their family early 1800s at St Austell.Perhaps I should follow up the other children of Charles and Mary.

This must be confusing.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 19 December 07 20:07 GMT (UK): Hi Rex ...

I am still searching St Austell .... I wonder if John is under the name Hammer and not Harry.

Were the Hammer girls cousins?

It would be good to search the Harry/Nancarrow line. Maybe something will pop up ...will have to recheck the thread for Names and DOB of this side of the family.....

deb :)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 19 December 07 20:14 GMT (UK): Thanks Deb
From memory I think Maria Hammer was a daughter of a brother of Jane/Jennifer (Hammer).I will check and confirm.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 19 December 07 20:32 GMT (UK): Rex

Which thread do we find the Charles harry and Mary Nancarow info on ...it's not on this one .... also how far back have you traced that side of the "family"?

deb :)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 19 December 07 20:49 GMT (UK): Hi Deb
Here is the Charles and Mary data as provided to me:
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 19 December 07 20:51 GMT (UK): Hi Deb
The Charles and Mary data as provided to me is:
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 19 December 07 21:00 GMT (UK): Hi Deb
Something screwy going on here.
The Charles and Mary data provided to me:
Charles Harry ???
Mary Nancarrow bpt 3 Dec 1758 Illogan
Mary 11 Mar 1781 Camborne
Charles 18 Jan 1784 Camborne
Catherine 19 Aug 1787 Camborne
Ann 14 Jun 1789 Camborne
Henry 25 Mar 1792 Phillack
Daniel 23 Mar 1794 Phillack
Henry 17 Apr 1796 Gwinnear died 27 Jan 1850 St Austell =Christian Blight
Daniel 29 Oct 1797 Gwinnear
John 24 Nov 1799 Phillack

Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 19 December 07 21:05 GMT (UK): Rex

okay
so Charles Harry = Mary Nancarrow
21 mar 1780, Illogan

what is it that makes it look screwy? Do you have Charles Harry's parents and DOB?

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 19 December 07 21:11 GMT (UK): Is Charles the one b 1761, St Gennys, to John Harry and Grace ?

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 19 December 07 21:30 GMT (UK): Deb
No I don't know Charle's parents.This data was provided by someone else.I can't confirm that the birth and marriage you suggest are correct but I will review.
What I meant by" something screwy" (Elmer Fudd) was I made a couple of false starts----- probably pushed the wrong key.
Back shortly.Taking my grandson to school.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 19 December 07 21:39 GMT (UK): ahhh ...This makes it interesting . I thought you knew who Charles Harry's parents were and when he was born ....

there obviously then has to be a connection with Charles' father and maybe Wiliam b St Kew ...or a little further back .... they most probably had the same grandparents or something . the fact that they all moved to st Austell seems to say something ...but then again who knows ...

Please let me know if you have the marriages of Charles and Mary's children ...

I see Mary Nancarrow's birth/christening and marriage to Charles Harry on IGI

deb :)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 19 December 07 22:14 GMT (UK): Deb
I believe the Charles and Mary marriage you quote to be correct.
It does look promising if we can find a connection to Charles,perhaps back to St Kew.
There may have been an extra child for Charles and Mary.
? William bpt 1785.

The only marriages I have for the children of Charles and Mary are:
Catherine Harry = Thomas Merrifield at Truro 29.10.1815
Henry Harry = Christian Blight 1.7.1820 St Austell.

The children of Henry Harry and Christian Blight are:
John b1821 St Austell died 1865 Brazil = Maria Hammer 11 Nov 1841 St Austell
Henry b1824 died 1832 aged 9

Mary b1826 died 1827 aged 7 months
Charles b1827 St Austell
William H. b1832 St Austell
Thomas b1835 St Austell d1887 St Austell
Joseph b181837 buried 1846 Mt Charles???
Elizabeth b1845 ///may be niece of Kitty/Christian

Thomas Harry b1835 St Austell as above married Mary Ann Norther 27.1.1856 St Austell
Their children were:
Charles 1858 St Austell
Samuel 1862 St Austell died 1912 America
Claudia b1864 St Austell died 23 Apr 1905 Abberdare,Wales

I am ducking out for some shopping.Back shortly.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 19 December 07 22:28 GMT (UK): Rex ...

i think you may be right. There is a William Harry s/o Charles Harry and Mary christened 19 june 1785, Camborne ...he fits in well between Charles Jan 1784 and Catherine aug 1787 , both of who , were also christened in Camborne.

By the way ...Is Camborne. Phillack and Gwinnear all close to St Kew and St Stephen in Brannel ? How far away are these places from St Austell?

deb :)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 19 December 07 23:20 GMT (UK): I thought I would start with John Harry b 1799 , Phillack ....so I am already confused ....

In 1851 there is ;
John Harry b 1801 , Phillack married to a Deborah , he is a collier living in St Paul Middlesex ...then there is a John Harry b Gwinnear 1800 married to Issabella living in Huddersfield Yorkshire ...he is an Out Pensioner Chelsea ... maybe I should look in 1841 first ...Blimey ...confusion reigns .... and I am still keeping a sense of humor LOL

deb ;D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 20 December 07 01:07 GMT (UK): Deb
I am back again,almost midday.No doubt late for you.I propose to work on it this afternoon
I have never been to Cornwall but as I understand it St Kew is cross country from St Austell,less than 40 miles.I have been advised that Cambourne is near Illogan and Phillack adjacent to Gwinnear.However going on the map they are a fair way from St Austell.St Austell and Illogan/Camborne front the sea.I imagine travel by sea around the coast was possible.
My inherited notes have a comment that b1835 "may have been a sea captain" but this has not been substantiated.

Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 20 December 07 04:20 GMT (UK): Deb
Catherine Harry bpt 19 Aug 1787 Cambourne,d/o Charles and Mary married 29 Oct 1815 Truro Thomas Merrifield.

Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 20 December 07 14:48 GMT (UK): Morning Rex :)

I am not getting very far .... I have found this in 1841

Phillack
Guilford
John Harry 50 Miner
Elizabeth 45 wife
both born in county

few houses away is a Nancarrow Family Headed by Stephen , 35 and a miner.

will keep hunting LOL

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 20 December 07 15:28 GMT (UK): :)

Okay ...Have been searching IGI all morning :-\

Mary Nancarrow
3 Dec 1758, Illogan
parents:
Will Nancarrow and Cath.
Extracted info

William Nancarrow = Catherine Bray
20 Feb 1747, Illogan

also this marriage:
Ann HARRY = Henry WHITFORD..... could this be Ann Harry b 1789 d/o Charles and Mary ?
24 April 1813, Phillack

Child of Ann and henry Whitford
Charles Whitford
17 oct 1813
Phillack

Can't see them in 1841 yet

deb
Phillack
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 20 December 07 15:51 GMT (UK): :)

Another possible marriage:

Re: Mary Harry ~ 11 mar 1781 d/o Charles Harry and Mary Nancarrow

Mary Harry = Caleb James
25 june 1803. Phillack

possible children:
Mary James ~ 1 july 1804, Gwinnear
Elizabeth James ~ 5 Jan 1806, Phillack
Grace James ~ 29 Nov 1807, "
William James ~ 27 mar 1812 "
Daniel Harris James ~ 1 Oct 1815 (named after her brothers, and possibly her maiden name Harry=Harris?)
John James ~ 24 jan 1819 Phillack
Catherine James ~ 15 April 1821

will look for them in the census .

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 20 December 07 15:59 GMT (UK): ooooooo Rex

I just found John James b 1819 s/o Mary and Caleb living with Henry and Christian/Kitty HARRY, st Austell, in 1841. He is 22 and a blacksmith !!

deb :D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 20 December 07 16:12 GMT (UK): Quote from: deb usa on Thursday 20 December 07 15:51 GMT (UK)
:)

Mary Harry = Caleb James
25 june 1803. Phillack

William James ~ 27 mar 1812 "

In 1841;
High Lane , Phillack
William james 30 boiler maker
Mary 25 wife
William 5 son (IGI chr~ 30 oct 1836)
John T 3 son (IGI Chr~ John Thomas James 26 nov 1838)
Mary 7 months dau (IGI Chr~30 may 1841)

2 other christenings:
Caleb James 2 oct 1842
Mary james 26 Feb 1837

Marriage
William James + Mary Oatey
28 nov 1835, Phillack

also all children christened in Phillack

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 20 December 07 16:19 GMT (UK): Quote from: Lazarus on Wednesday 19 December 07 21:00 GMT (UK)
Charles Harry ???
Mary Nancarrow bpt 3 Dec 1758 Illogan d/o Willam Nancarrow and Catherine Bray
Mary 11 Mar 1781 Camborne = Caleb James
Charles 18 Jan 1784 Camborne
Catherine 19 Aug 1787 Camborne =Thomas Merrifield
Ann 14 Jun 1789 Camborne = henry Whitford
Henry 25 Mar 1792 Phillack = died
Daniel 23 Mar 1794 Phillack =died
Henry 17 Apr 1796 Gwinnear died 27 Jan 1850 St Austell =Christian Blight
Daniel 29 Oct 1797 Gwinnear
John 24 Nov 1799 Phillack

Rex

only a few more to go .... 8)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 20 December 07 16:33 GMT (UK): Quote from: Lazarus on Thursday 20 December 07 01:07 GMT (UK)

My inherited notes have a comment that b1835 "may have been a sea captain" but this has not been substantiated.

who was supposed to have been the captain?

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 20 December 07 16:55 GMT (UK): I have been looking on Pallots Marriage index ... here are some marriages ..not sure if yours a here ....

Thomas Harry = Mary Blight, Redruth 1802

John Harry = Jane Best , St Stephens in Brannel 1809

Thomas Harry = Jane Newton, Truro St mary 1798

Mary Harry = John Scott, St kew 1796

deb...note the Blight name again ::)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 20 December 07 20:19 GMT (UK): Good morning Deb
Thanks for your input.Lots for me to review here.Late night last night,neibourhood Christmas party.I will check out and reply with comments.It was Thomas b1835 who may have been a sea captain but this is speculation only.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 20 December 07 22:55 GMT (UK): Hello Deb
I am working through your latest data.
Pallots Marriage Index
Marriage 2 Feb 1809 John Harry = Jane Best St Stephens in Brannel is mine.John 1766-1816 St Kew s/o Matthew Harry and Elizabeth Benallack.John was a brother of my William Harry who married Isabel Trethewy 22.4.1797 St Stephen in Brannel.

Did you notice that Charles Harry born St Gennys was a sojourner when he married Mary Nancarrow at Illogan 21 Mar 1780 ?

Just a thought re Maria (Hammer) Harry,widow of John Harry who died Brazil. I wonder if she could have remarried as I was told that there was a marriage recorded for a Maria Harry 4th Quarter 1874.

Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 15:17 GMT (UK): Quote from: deb usa on Wednesday 19 December 07 21:11 GMT (UK)
Is Charles the one b 1761, St Gennys, to John Harry and Grace ?

deb

Quote from: Lazarus on Thursday 20 December 07 22:55 GMT (UK)

Did you notice that Charles Harry born St Gennys was a sojourner when he married Mary Nancarrow at Illogan 21 Mar 1780 ?

hi Rex ...
Have you established that he was born St Genny's ...if so then we have his christening and his parents ...see above.

I will look for Maria Hammer.

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 15:43 GMT (UK): Charles Harry christened Jan 1761, parents:
John Harry =Grace Orchard
14 april 1755 St Gennys

This could be a possible christening for John Harry =Grace Orchard

John Harey
22 Sept 1735
St kew
parents~ John Harey and Rebecca

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 16:07 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

I wonder if this is Maria in 1871:

St Marylebone, London
Cripples House
17 Marylebone st
Maria HARRY, 45 Widow, Nurse b Cornwall

will look further

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 16:15 GMT (UK): ooooo yippee...we have found Maria , i think ::)

In 1881, we have a Maria CRABB, mar, nurse , 59, b St Mewan living with Henry and Mary Ann Benny and there family. Mary Ann Gerrans Benny comes from Truro ...

Then there is the Marriage you mentioned in 1874

Maria Harry = Thomas CRABB
dec q 1874, St Austell

deb :D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 16:23 GMT (UK): Have just checked out the Benny family ...

There is this marriage:
Henry Benny = Mary Ann G WHITFORD
dec q 1874 ...same quarter as Maria hammer Harry married LOL
Truro

Remember ....Ann Harry b 1789 d/o Charles Harry and Mary Nancarrow married henry WHITFORD.

:o :D
deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 16:36 GMT (UK): I think Thomas CRABB died because I can't find him with Maria in 1891...but I do see another Marriage......

Maria CRABB sept q 1888, St Austell ..only one man (Richard Netherton) on the page and 2 girls ... will search further

:o :o
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 16:43 GMT (UK): ooo my :o

Maria Hammer married :
1~ John Harry
2~ Thomas Crabb
3~ Richard Netherton

1891
Tywardreath
Richard netherton head mar 83 farm labourer b Golant
Maria Netherton wife mar 68 b St Austell

deb .... I wonder where all JOhn Harry and Maria's children went to ?

:)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 17:41 GMT (UK): at Last ...we have one of the harry children

1901:
Tavistock
Village of Milton Abbot
Henry Dymond head mar 65 gen lab b Werrington, Devon
Mary wife mar 60 b St Austell
Maria Netherton wid mother-in-law 77 b St Austell

Okay ... I found this marriage
Henry Dymond = Mary Borlase
dec q 1890, Tavistock

then ...
Mary HARRY = Sampson BORLASE
Dec q 1860
St Austell

It seems that one of John and Maria Harry's girls stayed behind and did not go to Brazil .... If you order Marry Harry's marriage cert it would tell us what John's, the pirate, occupation was ...

:D
deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 18:03 GMT (UK): in 1861

Plymouth , St Andrew
7 Railway cottages
Sampson BORLACE (sic) head mar 28 soldier b Roach , Cornwaal
Mary wife mar 19 b St Austell
Joseph HARRY, BROTHER,9 scholar b St Austell

we did not know that John and Maria Harry had a son , Joseph, as the last time we see John , the dad, is in 1851 ...with Maria and his daughters.

Why did John and Maria go to Brazil and leave him behind? Or had they not left for Brazil?

deb

PS ...when are you going to wake up ? :D ;D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 18:21 GMT (UK): Okay ...just to recap...

1851:
St Austell
John Harry 30 =dies in Brazil
Maria (Hammer) Harry 27 = 2. Thomas Crabb; = 3. Richard Netherton
Mary 9 = 1. Sampson Borlase; = 2. Henry Dymond
Elizabeth 6
Anna Jane 3
Christiana 1

Then Joseph Harry is born in 1852.

so we need to find the other daughters.... 8)

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 18:39 GMT (UK): Blimey Blimey

1861
Wrestling? Green, St Austell
Maria HARRIS wife a widow, 37, keeps the house
Elizabeth dau unm 16 works to mine copper b St Austell
Anna Jane dau 14 works to mine copper "
Christianna dau 10 " " " "

so Maria is a widow in 1861 .....

deb :o
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 19:35 GMT (UK): Quote from: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 15:43 GMT (UK)
Charles Harry christened Jan 1761, parents:
John Harry =Grace Orchard
14 april 1755 St Gennys

This could be a possible christening for John Harry =Grace Orchard

John Harey
22 Sept 1735
ST KEW
parents~ John Harey and Rebecca

deb

It appears that we may be getting closer to a link ... well, that's what I am hoping for ...would search but IGI down at the moment ...
:-\

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 21 December 07 19:40 GMT (UK): Good morning Deb
Thank you.Thank you.Thank you.
So much to comment on and observations to make.Hope I can make sense for you.Decided to check my mail at 5am and have now spent more than an hour making a manual spread sheet so that I have all your data before me.

You have achieved amazing things in tracking Maria Hammer through her 3 marriages.
John Harry is reported as having died Brazil 1865.
He and Maria did have a son Joseph 22 Apr 1852.Joseph married 20 Sep 1875 Ellen Millard.They are reported to have had a son who they called Wesley.Joseph and Ellen Millard married at St Stephen the Martyr,Marlebone.Ellen came from Pembroke South Wales.She was born 14 Aug 1856 and her father Thomas was a blacksmith.It is thought that Joseph and Ellen met whilst Joseph was in the Royal Welsh Regiment Militia but this is not confirmed.Joseph made several long and costly trips to Canada and America and was known to have been in New York in 1894.He met another family called Harry there,they had a son called Wesley.After Joseph returned to England,he and Ellen had a son who they named Wesley.
Joseph and Ellen had 10 children over the years 1877-1896.

John Harry the possible pirate was a tin miner.I don't think his wife and family went with him to Brazil.

Unless I am mistaken,all of your new data leads back to John Harey 22 Sep 1735 St Kew and his parents John Harey and Rebecca.I don't want to get too excited by I seem to recall a Rebecca.I will need to check out.

Variations on the Harry name ie Harey and Harris dont help.
Given the early/late hour,I hope this makes sense.
Well done.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 19:49 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

I am so excited at finding Maria and her girls in 1861 ...although I am not sure why she said she was a widow when John only died in 1865 ...what do you make of this?

I am thinking that maybe John Harey =Rebecca is the brother of William Harry = Phillipa

what do you think?

deb

ps ...I am so glad you are awake ..I was getting so excited by my finds and there was no-one to comment ...

;D ;D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 19:56 GMT (UK): okay ...I am going to try to find the same parents for a John and a William Harry...William , who married Phillipa was b ??, they started having children circ 1717 ...so William b c 1695?

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 21 December 07 20:18 GMT (UK): Deb
I have been having difficulty in replying.
John Harry married Rebecca Cleeve.They had several children including John 22 Sep 1735.Names confusing Harey and Harris.I am convinced the name is Harry.
I have never been able to find the birth/bpt for William who married the widow Philippa Lynam.Also can't find their marriage.
My best guess is that William had a brother John.Cant be sure.Not many records about.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 20:59 GMT (UK): Hi Rex ...

I have found these ...but am still searching..

JOHN HARRY
16 AUG 1682 Saint Mewan, Cornwall
father John Harry

WILLIAM HARRY
23 JUN 1688 Saint Mewan
father John Harry

WILLIELMUS HARRY
17 FEB 1689 Saint Kew
father ..WILLIELMI HARRY
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 21:16 GMT (UK): Hi Rex ...where did you go :D

trying to find William's marriage to the widow Philippa Lynam ....still looking , I have however found her maiden name ...

Marriage IGI extracted;
RICHARD LYNAM
PHILIPPA THOMAS
14 JUL 1787 Saint Kew,

so she may have been b c 1770ish LOL ... I wonder if william was born around the same time or did he marry an older woman ...will look further . Everything seems to be in the St kew area when we delve further back.

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 21:25 GMT (UK): ignore my last post ... have just realised that that was too late as William and Philippa had children in 1717

errr ummmm ....

IGI
Philippa Thomas = Richard Harry
APR 1799 Saint Kew

okay I need to regroup with a glass of red wine ... :D :)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 21 December 07 21:45 GMT (UK): Deb
I am still here.A bit early for a glass of wine here.Breakfast time.What time is it there?
I was part way responding to a PM when the power failed.Very stormy here.
The lady knows something about Henry Harry and Kitty,so I still need to respond to her message.She has been reading our postings regarding her grandparents Samuel Harry and Sarah Ida Bleathman.

Your latest data re Philippa Lynam,Richard Lynam and Philippa Thomas is all part of my tree.However Philippa the widow died 1746.From memory she is likely to be nee Hick(e)s.I need to look out my old data.
I can't speak with any knowledge about the 1600 Harrys at St Mewan but they must slot in somewhere.

Some time back I raised on RootsChat the issue of names like Wilielmus and Wilielmi because they appeared to fit earlier generations.

I do feel like a fine red wine.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 21:57 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

it is almost 5pm here , but OH is on Christmas leave and is making a great chili for dinner. It is cold and wet and almost dark ... so it feels right to have a lovely red ...while looking for Harry people ....
::) :D :)

I am not sure who Samuel Harry is , but tell 'the lady' she is sure welcome to join in with our postings ...

I cannot spot any marriage to a phillippa ....

I am also still trying to find the connection .... st Mewan is where the Blights or is it the Hammers come from ?

deb ...still ~~gulping~~ sipping wine
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 21 December 07 21:58 GMT (UK): quick question ....

when did John Harry leave for Brazil ?

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 21 December 07 22:21 GMT (UK): Deb
I have replied to the PM.She lives in Australia.I need to do some work on her specific queries.She also might be able to help with documents.

Now after 9am here.I lost my wife 6 years ago next Feb.Life goes on.

Cold and wet here.Very stormy.We need the rain badly as we are in the middle of a drought.

Chili sounds great.

John Harry is reported to have left Cornwall to seek his fortune in South America,possibly after the tin mines closed (when was that?).He is said to have worked at several mines around the St Austell area including the Polgooth Mine.He may have worked his passage to South America and for this reason was recorded as a sailor somewhere.No mention of when (date) but must have been after 1851 when he was home Joseph was born April 1852.

Jane Hammer came from St Mewan and some of the children of Nicholas Harry and Jane were bpt. St Mewan.Nicholas Harry was buried St Mewan 11 Aug 1846.

Cheers
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Saturday 22 December 07 08:24 GMT (UK): Good morning Deb
Not sure if this helps but I think the widow Philippa Lynam may have been nee Hick(e)s.Their children as mentioned in Philippa (Lynam) Harry's Will when she died 1746 St Kew,with Lynam surname were:
Hannah 15 Feb 1714 =Thomas Martyn 25 Aug 1739 St Kew
Joane 2 Jun 1713 = George Tomms/Thomas 25 Apr 1738
William date not known
John date not known.
She also listed Harry children:
William31.12.1717
Dorethy 18 Oct 1719
Matthew 13 Oct 1731 ?? gap in dates unless adult bpt.
Richard date not known but inherited bulk of Philippa's estate one year after her death.

John Lynam's Will was dated 15 Jan 1715.He was buried 16.Jan 1715.

I think the John Harry/Harris/Hary who married Rebecca Cleeve,may have been a brother of William.His father may have been John also.

Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Saturday 22 December 07 09:48 GMT (UK): Deb
How do you see it so far?

My John Harry who married Rebeccaa Cleeve had a son John bpt 22 Sp 1735 who married Grace Orchard.
Their son Charles Harry who married Mary Nancarrow is the connection for the two groups if I am thinking clearly.

We are thinking that John Harry who married Rebecca Cleeve might be a brother of William who married Philippa Lynam.

I think I need a sleep.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 22 December 07 16:16 GMT (UK): morning Rex

I'm on the hunt again ... LOL

That is what I am thinking ..That John = Rebecca is the brother of William =Philppa.... Obviously there is no way to prove it from where you and I are ... we need someone to look up the parish records ... arrgghhhh

Maybe we should lay it out generation by generation so that we can see it more clearly with names and dates and places of birth ...

who are we still looking for ... was it Henry Hammer Harry?

I found these marriages.... John Harry & Phillipa Wood 21 Dec 1697, Werrington

Johannes Harry & Katherina Skinard 13 Jul 1668 , St Kew ...this John is too old to be John possible father of William and John

Willielmus Harry & Elizabeth Kest 23 Oct 1662 , St Kew

ps do you have the will of John Harry , St Kew dated 1763?
more wills~
Harry, Eliz., St Austell 1760
Harry, Wm, St Kew A. 1733
Harry, Wm, Truro 1752

Deb ... will look to see a marriage of a John harry circa 1680 ...John was bc 1682, William 1688
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Saturday 22 December 07 22:06 GMT (UK): Good morning Deb
We have been hanging our hats on a John Harry/Harris marrying 15 Apr 1723 St Teath,Rebecca/Rebekah Cleeve.
They had children;
Joseph 17 Apr 1724 St Kew ? Harris
Edith 28 Aug 1726 St Kew ? Harris
Elizabeth 11 May 1729 St Kew ? Harris
Jennifer 18 Jan 1731 St Kew ? Harris
John 22 Sep 1735 St Kew ? Harry/Harey

I need to double check these as I was assured by a group in Cornwall that it was definitely Harris not Harry.
However we think it was the youngest child John b1735 who was the father of Charles Harry.

Assuming we are correct do you agree that it is at this point (Charles Harry) where the two groups we have been trying to link up,meet?
I agree we need someone to look up parish records.Any ideas?

I do have copies of the Wills of:
William Harry 1733 leaves all to his wife Philippa.
Philippa Harry 147 beneficiaries 4 Lynam children and 4 Harry children.
John Harry 1645 beneficiaries wife Hon.??,daughter Elizabeth Bennett,daughter Mary Harry,Richard Dagg,,granddaughters ? difficult to read.
John Harry 1763 wife appears to be Margaret,son Richard.I will spend more time trying to transcribe.

There are a few more I have but more recent generations.

How do you suggest we lay out the generations? ie direct line only as there are many children and side branches.Could I email you?

Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 22 December 07 22:58 GMT (UK): hi Rex

I know no-one who could do parish lookups in Cornwall .... You could post a seperate thread ... on the lookup request board for anyone who might be able to help ....

the Igi definitley says that John HAREY had parents : John HAREY and Rebecca. There are no other children listed for them .... I wonder if John HARRIS = Rebacca CLEAVE is NOT JOhn HAREY =Rebecca ??

I was thinking that for clearer thinking it may be possible to lay them out : Not sure how though...
maybe you could stat with you direct line and work backwards but not include all the siblings ...then you could start with the other Harrys in St Austell and work back ...arrgghhhhh ...

this is so hard to do online , isn't it .... at least you have far more info on the Harry people ....it does seem like some of them liked to be married (over and Over LOL )

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Saturday 22 December 07 23:20 GMT (UK): Thanks Deb
Not only did they like getting married but they liked lots of kids.My great grandparents (John Hammer Harry and Elizabeth Ann Wellington) had at least 15 kids born El Dorado via Beechworth Australia.
We didn't ever find him 1861 prior to coming to Australia.

I checked the IGI for the Harry/Harris children .All recorded as Harris except for John 22 Sep 1735 recorded as Harey.The children (5) were all born a couple of years apart commencing 1724 one year after John and Rebecca married St Teath by Banns.They were both of St Kew.I think we have the correct family.Perhaps they were'nt sure themselves.Probably illiterate.The name was also Rebekah on one of the IGI entries.

I think I will post a seperate thread on the look up request board.Not only Harry/Harris but / if John had a brother William.

Someone is researching Charles Harry and Mary Nancarrow on RootsChat but do not appear to have advanced their research.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 22 December 07 23:33 GMT (UK): Hi Rex..

My family liked kids as well ...I am from the Gypsy Penfold line (also lived in St Austell) ...my nan was one of 17...sometimes the 1st children were at least 20 years older that the younger ones ... so the generations get a little confused ..LOL

maybe we should post this threads link to the other person who is searching for the Harry/Nancarrow info ....

I will have another go at searching for John hammer Harry in 1861... do you have all the info you need on his wife ... Elizabeth ann Wellington ....she was born in cornwall too, wasn't she ?

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Sunday 23 December 07 00:02 GMT (UK): Deb
As suggested I have posted a request on the look up request board.
I will try again to contact the parties I know to have an interest in the Charles Harry/Mary Nancarrow line.There must be lots of secrets.

Since I have been researching (on my mothers side),I discovered a cousin who I had not known previously.Family secrets.

I have lots on the Wellingtons as someone had already completed a substantial family history.From memory I don't think they came from Austell.

My grandparents large family (at least 15) would have been raised in early settlers accomodation (tents or humpies).Mosted started school at 2 or 3 years.

I have just noticed that Elizabeth Ann Wellington was born C1847/9 St Buryan.Her parents were Richard Wellington and Caroline Jane Matthews who married 1838 Sancreed.
The family including Elizabeth aged 2 show up on the 1851 Census at Poolpenpenna St Buryan.The family came to Australia as assisted immigrants 1858 on "Sea Park".Elizabeth was only 17 when she married John Hammer Harry in 1865.?? I suppose there is a chance the families new each other.

Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Sunday 23 December 07 18:47 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

I am going to look for John hammer Harry again.

I see the Wellington family in 1841 ....if you need more on them let me know ...

I Found one Richard Wellington in 1841 and thought I had stumbled onto something as he was living with a Catherine Harries... then I realised I had the wrong Richard ... LOL

deb :) :D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Sunday 23 December 07 19:15 GMT (UK): Rex

have you noticed that there is a very large Matthews family living next door to Jane and Henry Harry at Brays place, in 1861 ...I wonder if they are related in any way to Caroline jane Matthews= Richard Wellington ...

:-\
deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Sunday 23 December 07 20:45 GMT (UK): Good morning Deb
With regard to the Wellingtons,not sure what you have but Richard Wellington 1813-1875 born St Buryan,married in Sancreed in 1838 by Banns Caroline Jane Matthews,the daughter of William and Nannie Matthews.
Caroline and five children (Wellington) including Elizabeth Ann bC1849 who was to marry John Hammer Harry.
The Wellingtons obviously moved around a lot,following the goldfields,but some of the children lived their lives out in El Dorado which was where my gret grandparents raised their 15 children.
I have a book on the residents of El Dorado.
Did you find them in 1851?

I spent some time yesterday transcribing the 1763 Will of John Harry gentleman.It mentions his wife Margaret and a son Richard.It speaks of his estate in Lower Am------ (can't read),also looks like John Webbers tenement.
Can't be sure but I think this John Harry married 25.7.1725 St Mabyn,Mrs Margaret Hamley.I think she might have been a widow.They had children Jane 1727,Diana 1728 John 1730,William 1732,Elizabeth 1735 and Richard 1740.Only Richard is mentioned in the Will.

No luck yet on the look up board.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Monday 24 December 07 00:11 GMT (UK): Hi Rex ...

yes I have them in 1851 also 1841 .... trying to get organised for our Christmas dinner etc ... so much to do ... have decided that the red wine helps ...LOL ...

will be back soonish ...

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Monday 24 December 07 00:40 GMT (UK): Thanks Deb
Your Christmas dinner must come first.I can wait.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Monday 24 December 07 14:56 GMT (UK): Hi Rex...

Merry Christmas ...hope you have a wonderful day ! It is still Christmas eve here ... almost 10;00 am

In 1841:
Penzance, St Just in Penwith
West Place
Richard Wellington 25 miner in tin
Caroline 20
Richard 2
Mary 1month ...she must have died as she is not there in 1851 !
William Matthews 20 shoemaker
all born in county

in 1851..there is a dau, Mary who is 9 ...named after her older sister :'(

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Monday 24 December 07 15:21 GMT (UK): Hi again

Rex ... you said that Caroline and Richard had 5 children ...I see 6 in 1851... did only 5 go to Australia? they had 7 children , all told , when including little Mary (b 1841).

I see on IGI that there are a few children born to William and ANN Matthews (parents of Caroline Matthews)...I think that the name Ann and Nancy/Nannie were interchangeable in those days ....

will look further

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Monday 24 December 07 15:31 GMT (UK): Hi rex

This may be Caroline Matthews = Richard Wellington , her family.

Marriage:
William Matthews = Anne Williams
23 DEC 1809 Saint Buryan

children:
MARY WILLIAMS MATHEWS 11 MAR 1810 Saint Buryan
JOHN MATHEWS 26 JAN 1812 Saint Buryan
ANNE MATTHEW 06 MAR 1814 Saint Buryan
ELIZABETH MATTHEWS 10 MAR 1816 Saint Buryan
WILLIAM MATTHEWS 27 DEC 1818 Saint Buryan ...I think he is the one living with the Wellingtons in 1841.
CAROLINE MATTHEWS 29 APR 1821 Saint Buryan

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Monday 24 December 07 15:53 GMT (UK): possible christening for Ann Williams =William Matthews

IGI
ANNE WILLIAMS 30 DEC 1787 Saint Buryan
parents ~THOMAS WILLIAMS and MARY

There is another christening in St Buryan ...but that would have made her 14 when getting married. Another is Nance Williams ...but Christened St Wenn.

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Monday 24 December 07 20:05 GMT (UK): Quote from: Lazarus on Sunday 23 December 07 20:45 GMT (UK)

I spent some time yesterday transcribing the 1763 Will of John Harry gentleman.It mentions his wife Margaret and a son Richard.It speaks of his estate in Lower Am------ (can't read),also looks like John Webbers tenement.
Can't be sure but I think this John Harry married 25.7.1725 St Mabyn,Mrs Margaret Hamley.I think she might have been a widow.They had children Jane 1727,Diana 1728 John 1730,William 1732,Elizabeth 1735 and Richard 1740.Only Richard is mentioned in the Will.

I wonder if this is Margaret Hamley's maiden name ...

Marriage:
Robert Hamley & Margaret Hewet 14 Aug 1702 , Lanviet

deb

Ps could you post a section of the will that you can't transcribe ... ie: the part about the estate ...lower Am ??
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Monday 24 December 07 20:32 GMT (UK): Happy Christmas Deb.Lunch with my children and grandchildren today.
The Wellingtons were a very big family.
The parents of Richard b1813 St Buryan were Peter Wellington born Luxulian 1777,died Sancreed 1871 and Joan Harvey who died St Buryan 1854.They married 1807 and had 10 children.

According to my El Dorado book,Richard and Caroline Jane had twelve children.Mary Harvey Wellington b1841 St Just did not die until 1901.
The 12 children were:
Richard b1838 Sancreed came to Aust. 1856 "Severn"
William Matthew b1840 St Just ship not known
Mary Harvey b1841 St Just
Joseph b1844 Sancreed
Louisa b1846 Sancreed
Elizabeth Ann bC 1849 married John H Harry
Caroline Jane b1851 Penzance
Phillipa b1857 at sea d5.3.1858 at sea
John Peter b1859 Forest Creek Aust. died 1859 Forest Creek
Abraham b1861 Beechworth Aust.
Agnes b1863 El Dorado
Matthias b1866 died 1869 El Dorado

The shipping records for "Sea Park" show that Caroline with 5 of the children and an infant must have followed Richard to Australia.
Forest Creek now Chewton is not far from where I live.

I don't have any data on the Matthews family.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Monday 24 December 07 20:38 GMT (UK): Hi Deb
I will need to work out how to scan the Will and send you a copy.May have to enlist the help of my son.
Margaret Hamley is frequently described as Mrs so I assumed she was married previously. ? any record of her husband having died or her age from elsewhere.

Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Monday 24 December 07 22:03 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

re; the children of Caroline and Richard Wellington ...

In 1841;
Richard and Caroline have 2 children ...Richard, 2years and Mary 1month.

In 1851 they have Richard 12, he adds up , then William who is 11...Mary who was 1month (in 1841 census) should be there in 1851, between the 2 boys...I hope I am making sense .... then in 1851 there is a Mary who is 9 so b c 1842...

Or was William, b 1840, Penzance somewhere else the night of census taking ?
let me check.

I hope I am making sense! :-\
deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Monday 24 December 07 22:25 GMT (UK): Deb
I can only guess that the missing kids were somewhere else on the night of the census.My data is taken fom a book,so I am relying on someone elses accuracy.
Mary b1840 married Mary Ann Rowe and Mary Harvey Wellington married Charles Huggins.
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Monday 24 December 07 23:08 GMT (UK): Quote from: Lazarus on Monday 24 December 07 22:25 GMT (UK)
Mary b1840 married Mary Ann Rowe

Blimey I hope not ...LOL LOL ..... well maybe the Aussies were very open people ...

deb

added ... cannot find William b c 1841 in 1841 census :-\
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Monday 24 December 07 23:23 GMT (UK): Deb
And I haven't even had a drink..
Wm Matthew married Mary Ann Rowe.
Off to my daughters for lunch now.
Have a very Happy Christmas.
Cheers
Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Tuesday 25 December 07 00:02 GMT (UK): REX ...have a grand time ...will pick up after Christmas ...

best wishes to you and your family ...have a great time ....

deb :) :D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 26 December 07 17:31 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

Christmas is done for another year ...phew thank goodness :D

I have been trying to find William Wellington in the 1841 census. Just to recap ...in 1841 Richard and Caroline Wellington had 2 children with them ...Richard 2 and Mary 1month. William should have been with them as he is 11 in 1851. (by the way the age of Mary in 1851, 9, still puzzles me!)

I have found a stray William Wellington aged 10 months in St Winnow. He is with a Thomas Burt?, 20 and Catherine Burt? aged 3.

will search further ... maybe he is under his middle name Matthews ... :-\

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 26 December 07 18:48 GMT (UK): Good morning Deb
Still very early here.I will try to sort the Wellington/Matthews situation out from the data I have.

Are you convinced that we have connected up my William Harry/Philippa Lynam with Charles Harry/Mary Nancarrow group?
The Harris name (= Rebecca Cleeve) is off putting but doesn't explain John Harey bpt 22 Sep 1735 St Kew.

I would love to determine where John Harry/Margaret Hamley fit in.

I do have some other Wills:
1851 Philippa Harry (nee Thomas),widow of Richard Harry s/o Matthew Harry and Elizabeth Benallic.Apparently Richard and Philippa did not have children as the sole beneficiary is Susanna Hicks.

1849 Will of Richard Harry (refer above) tailor and general shopkeeper.

1764 Bond of Richard Harry re his wife Ann (nee Lobb).

1624 William Harry ? Latin and/or old English

1676 John Harry
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 26 December 07 20:29 GMT (UK): hi Rex
Quote from: Lazarus on Monday 24 December 07 20:32 GMT (UK)
.
The parents of Richard b1813 St Buryan were Peter Wellington born Luxulian 1777,died Sancreed 1871 and Joan Harvey who died St Buryan 1854.They married 1807 and had 10 children.

I am a little confused here as In 1851, Peter Wellington is the head of house , where Richard and Caroline are staying with their children . In 1851 Peter says he is a widow... but you say Joan , his wife only dies in 1854. therefore Joan should still be with him in 1851...
:-\

I am still trying to figure out the Harry connection ... LOL ...

Also the will is quite difficult to read ... I went through the 1841 census for st Kew ...hoping to spot a place name that would look something like the estate name ... no luck with that either... will keep trying to decypher it

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 26 December 07 21:14 GMT (UK): geezzzz Rex ...I am confused again LOL ;D ;D

We have Philippa Lynam nee Hicks marries a Harry. her will dated 1746.
Then you have a will (1851) of a Philippa Harry nee Thomas leaving everything to a Susanna Hicks.

Is this a coincidence?

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 26 December 07 21:23 GMT (UK): Good morning again Deb.
Here is what I have (someone elses data) re Peter Wellington.
He was born 27 Sep 1779 Luxulyan.He married(1) Joan Harvey 18 Jul 1807 St Buryan.She was born 1782 St Buryan d/o John and Elizabeth Harvey and was buried 20 Oct 1845 St Buryan.
He married (2) Blanch Hosken Matthews 10 Jan 1856 Hedra.She was born 1810,d/o James Matthews and Blanche.
Peter died 11 Feb 1871 Sancreed and was buried St Buryan.
There were other Peter Wellington.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 26 December 07 21:38 GMT (UK): Deb
I can't vouch for Philippa Lynam Harry being nee Hicks.Speculation only at this stage.
I think the other Philippa Harry was nee Thomas,widow of Richard Harry who was a shopkeeper and tailor.
The 1851 Census Highway Village St Kew shows:
Philppa Harry 76 widow grocer
Susanna Hicks 43 married house servant
Both born St Kew

In 1853 there was an "Admion" granted to John Hicks,husband of Susanna Hicks deceased.Philippa Harry (nee Thomas) had died 11.2.1853.
Susanna (deceased) was the sole executrix named in Philippa's Will but Susanna had died.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 26 December 07 21:56 GMT (UK): hi Rex

...I have just found this on IGI

~~PHILIPPA HICKS = THOMAS BROWN~~
12 MAY 1729 Saint Kew

too soon to be Philippa Harry nee Thomas' parents ...

errr.... Where am I going with this you may ask .... err ... I'm not sure myself...
Rex ... tell me what to find ...LOL

sorry wrong marriage :-[ :-\

deb ... having a glass of red .... :) :D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 26 December 07 22:03 GMT (UK): rex... please discard my last message ... sorry confused with the names ... :-[ :-[ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 26 December 07 22:05 GMT (UK): will look further
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 26 December 07 22:16 GMT (UK): Okay ...back on Track

Philippa Thomas (who married Richard Harry)was christened ... 31 dec 1774 St Kew d/o William Thomas and Susanna (Matthews ... William Thomas = Susanna Matthews, 11 June 1771, St Kew)

another Matthews surname ... Richard Wellington = Caroline jane Matthews

:-\

deb :D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 26 December 07 22:50 GMT (UK): Deb
I agree with your latest.
Richard Harry = 29 Apr 1800 St Kew by Banns,Philippa Thomas.
William Thomas ( ? her father) was a witness.I have a copy.

The Will of Philippa (Thomas) Harry mentions:
Richard Francis Grose of Hendra
John Hicks of Bodmin-blacksmith
Susanna Hicks.

To save confusion.
The 1764 Will of a Richard Harry of St Kew has a bond entered into by his wife Ann (nee Lobb) and two others William Lobb of St Breock and Thomas Lobb of St Breock both yeomen.I think that this Richard Harry = 17 Apr 1752 St Kew ,Ann Lobb.

Again not to confuse???
Another Richard Harry perhaps son of John Harry and Margaret Hamley,= 14.6.1768 St Kew,Ann/Anne Brown.

There are other Richard Harry not yet mentioned.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 26 December 07 22:53 GMT (UK): rex ...

in 1841
Richard (tailor) and Phillippa Harry (shopkeeper) still have Susanna Hicks (30, staymaker) living with them. John Hicks , Susanna's husband, is not with them in the 1841 or 51 censuses ... what is Susanna's maiden name ?

so John Hicks inherited , Richard Harry's 'fortune' ...... that's sad ...

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 26 December 07 23:06 GMT (UK): Deb
I don't know Susanna's maiden name yet.I had noticed her husband a blacksmith was elsewhere but ended up with the loot.
This Richard and Philippa did not have children.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 26 December 07 23:10 GMT (UK): Just noticed a very old Catherine Thomas living in Egloshayle . she was born 1751. Egloshayle is in Bodmin .... she is surrounded by CLEAVE families ....I was hoping to find Phillippa Thomas' parents around.

will try and find Susanna' s maiden name ...

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Wednesday 26 December 07 23:46 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

Somehow Susanna Hicks must be releted , why else would Philippa Harry leave her 'estate' to her, and then Susannah in turn leaves everything to John Hicks, the blacksmith.

I have searched IGI for a marriage , but nothing pops up . I was thinking that Susanna may have married after 1837 as she is 30 in 1841 and 43 in 1851 so b c 1818...so would be around 20 in 1838.

these are the marriages I have found for John Hick*s in Cornwall prior to 1841

*Susanna Tucker ~ Dec q 1838 Camelford
* Susanna Cock ~ sept q 1838 Truro
* Susanna Richards ~ dec q 1838 Redruth
* Susanna Webster ~ dec q 1838 Redruth

any surnames ring a bell?

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 27 December 07 00:16 GMT (UK): Rex

Where do you find John Hicks, the blacksmith ?

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 27 December 07 00:30 GMT (UK): have found john Hicks, blacksmith living in Bodmin in 1841...he is with Charles Hicks , 56 , gardener and Edward Hicks, 20 , Gardener, Catherine Hicks, 56 and Edith and Eliza Hicks, both 20 and dressmakers.

No clues as to Susanna 's maiden name in the area .... arrgghhhh

deb ::)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 27 December 07 01:14 GMT (UK): Deb
Sorry for the delay.Back again.Needed to refill the refrigerator.

One of the Wills/Admion/Bond referred to him as blacksmith of Bodmin.

I don't recognize any of the John Hicks marriages you quote.

There must be a reason why John Hicks and Susannah were living apart yet he still benefited when Susanna died.I see what looks like hi family and siblings at Bodmin.
Looks like dressmaking in the family.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 27 December 07 03:46 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

I cannot find john Hicks in 1851 ...you would think he may be around , but not . I have . I think , found him in 1861 living in London ....

1861
John Heicks (sic) mar 43 BLACKSMITH b Cornwall , St Just
Eliza wife mar 40 b Middlesex St James
and Children all born Middlesex ...one is a solicitors clerk
Eliza's mother is living with them , she is 81 and a widow ...cannot make out the name clearly ...but she was born in Cornwall as well.

original says Heicks

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 27 December 07 06:58 GMT (UK): Deb
Sorry but not convinced that this is the John Hicks we are looking for.He was married to Susanna who lived with Philippa at Highway Village St Kew.I think the Will/Admion/Bond documents described him as a blacksmith born Bodmin.Are you suggesting he married again?
The Will of Phillippa (sic) Harry was dated 8 Feb 1851 provided that all her assets including freehold lands and tenements be applied to the use of Richard Francis Grose of Hendra,during the natural life of Susanna Hicks (wife of John Hicks of Bodmin,blacksmith) in trust for the use and benefit of Susanna but not subject to the debts or control of her present husband.Phillippa died 11 Feb 1853.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 27 December 07 14:53 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

This is so strange ...I can find no sign of John Hicks, blacksmith in 1851. I think his brother Edward Hicks, b 1821 Bodmin , is living in Harwell Berkshire with wife and child.

I have located Richard Francis Grose who received some inheritance... in 1851 he is living at Hendra, St Kew with his widowed mother , Rebecca a landed proprietor. He is unm, 34 and a Farmer of 303 acres employing 6 labourers. I wonder what the relationship is there ...for him to have been given some of the estate?

will look further

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 27 December 07 15:19 GMT (UK): Rex

In 1841
Richard Grose, 25, farmer is still at Hendra in St kew with mother and siblings ... Philippa Harry and Susanna Hicks are a couple of pages away living at Highway, st Kew. There has to be a connection !

IGI:
RICHARD FRANCIS GROSE
02 AUG 1816 Saint Kew
parents ~
RICHARD GROSE and REBECCA

it seems that Richard Grose snr married Rebecca Hoskings on 14 mar 1812 at Ludgvan .....

this doesn't seem to be leading me anywhere ..... :-\

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 27 December 07 21:30 GMT (UK): Good Morning Deb
I trust you received the Will which I emailed to you earlier.

Perhaps changing tact a little,I have a document dated 1764 (an obligation) by Ann Harry of St Kew,widow of another Richard Harry who died intestate.
I believe her to be nee Lobb.
Richard Harry married Ann Lobb 17 Apr 1752 St Kew.They had children William 1753,Jane 1755 and Catherine 1757.
William Lobb and Thomas Lobb,both yeomen of St Kew are witnesses to the document.

I have not yet determined who are the parents of this Richard Harry.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 27 December 07 22:11 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

Yes I have received the will! I must admit that I am quite envious of all you documents!

Do you have any idea where to start with this Richard Harry .... I have looked on IGI ...and cannot spot a St Kew Richard ...what were the nearest villages/parishes to st Kew in those days .... ?

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 27 December 07 22:28 GMT (UK): Hi Rex ...

according to the obligation doc of 1764, it seems that William and Thomas Lobb are yeomen of St Breock and not St Kew .....

Maybe that's where we should start ?
deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 27 December 07 22:43 GMT (UK): Deb
I have found Harry family at St Kew,St Mabyn,Egloshayle,St Breock,St Merryn,St Minver and St Teath

There is a Richard bpt 29 Jul 1740 St Mabyn s/o John Harry and Margaret (Hamley).I have him marrying 14 Jun 1768 St Kew Ann/Anne Brown.Perhaps this is incorrect.

There is also a Richard Harry bpt 1 Nov 1776 St Breock s/o William Harry and Margaret/Marjory Cooke.However I thought he married Philippa Tremaine 1.2.1801 St Merryn.

Richard Harry who married 17 Apr 1752 St Kew Ann Lobb ????
Could I be confusing Ann Lobb and Ann Brown.
There is an Ann Brown 18 Jul 1742 St Kew d/o Samuel Brown = Jane Pain 30 Sep 1741 St Kew.
An Ann Harry was buried 24 Jan 1827 aged 85 years.

William Harry and Philippa Lynam had a son Richard (beneficiary in her Will 1747).

There are more Richard Harry bin the 1800s but I think we can discount them.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 27 December 07 22:50 GMT (UK): Deb
St Breock might be a good place to start.I think all the places I mentioned are close to St Kew.
There is also Chaple Amble.
Didn't one of the Wills have an unreadable location :Lower Am--------?
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 27 December 07 22:59 GMT (UK): I have found a Thomas Lobb born circa 1743 of Broeck (submitted) ..marrying a Elizabeth Saunders , 9 jan 1768. Whick does not help us at all .... Trying to figure out how old they may have been when Ann Lobb Married Richard Harry...

yes ...lower Am ...., but the word looked longer than Amble .....

Did Richard and Ann Lobb or Brown have children ..... we need to find them ...I think their names may give a clue ...especially if he had a daughter , margaret ...possibly named after mother ...arrghhhhhhhhhh

deb :-\
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 27 December 07 23:13 GMT (UK): a quick thought ....

I think that you have the correct marriages .... Richard harry = Ann Lobb in 1852. He cannot be the same as Richard Harry , b 1740 = Ann Brown in 1862, as Ann Lobb Harry is a widow by 1764.....

I am goind round in circles ;D ;D ;D :o

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Thursday 27 December 07 23:24 GMT (UK): Deb
Richard Harry and Ann Lobb had Children:
William bpt 15 Jul 1753 St Kew = 6 Apr 1774 Egloshayle Margaret Cooke
Jane bpt 6 Jul 1755 St Kew
Catherine bpt 22 May 1757 St Kew = 12 Oct 1776 St Breock, John Heard

Richard Harry ??? bpt 29 Jul 1740 St Mabyn and Ann/Anne Brown had children:
Jane bpt 7 Jun 1769 St Kew = 27 Dec 1791 William Boscombe
Mary bpt 1 Jan 1771 St Kew
Ann/Jane bpt 5 Nov 1772 St Kew d1846 / repitition of name also 1851 Census Chapple Amble aged 78 unmarried retired ladies maid.
John bpt 18 Jan 1775 St Kew
Margaret bpt 11 May 1777 St Kew
William bpt 7 Nov 1779 St Kew

William Harrey(sic) = 6 Apr 1774 Egloshayle, Margaret/Marjory Cook had children:
Richard bpt 1 Nov 1776 St Breock d19 Aug 1845 St Breock = Philippa Tremaine.
Jenny bpt 12 Sep 1779 St Breock unmarried
William bpt 23 Feb 1783 = 15 Jan 1814 St Breock Catherine Heard
Jenefer bpt 9 Jul 1786 d17 Mar 1866 aged 79 unmarried.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Thursday 27 December 07 23:43 GMT (UK): geezzzz Rex ...I am getting nowhere quickly ....

I have seen this on IGI ...don't know if it's yours ...

Re; Margaret Harry b 1777 d/o Richard Harry and Ann Brown

Margaret Harry = JOHN HILL
17 APR 1802 Saint Kew
extracted

deb :-\
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 28 December 07 00:02 GMT (UK): Thank you Deb
This is one of Richard Harry and Ann Browns children as listed my previous posting.
Same family I could not explain 2 Janes 1769 and 1772.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 28 December 07 00:26 GMT (UK): Rex

You need to give me something I can find ...LOL ...I am feeling quite disspirited as I am unable to find anything useful .....

I can't find any children for John Harry = Catherine Heard who married 1814

They all have to be connected ....they are driving me to drink :D :D

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 28 December 07 00:56 GMT (UK): Deb
Seeing I started this,I wish I could buy you a drink.

The children of William Harry and Catherine Heard who married 15 Jan 1814 St Breock are:
Ann bpt 21 Oct 1821 St Breock d 3 March 1849
Catherine bpt 18 Nov 1814 St Breock
Jennifer ( ? Jane) bpt 11 Jan 1824 St Breock = Henry Welsh
Mary bpt 12 Oct 1826 d 10 Aug 1866 unmarried
John bpt 31 Aug 1828 St Breock unmarried
William bpt 7 Jul 1816 = 28 Nov 1846 St Issey Grace Warne

Refer 1841 Census St Breock Churchtown.

The family of John Harry s/o John H and Margaret ( Hamley) married 31 Jul 1750 St Breward,Mary Pawly,could be interesting.
? Pawley Tenement is referred to in the Will 1715 of John Lynam (1st husband of Philippa Harry) I have a copy.

Their children are:
Joseph bpt 14 Jan 1752 St Mabyn d 15 Dec 1833 aged 81 married 31 Dec 1772 St Mabyn,Elizabeth Bake.
John bpt 14 May 1764 St Mabyn
Mary bpt 8 Dec 1765 St Mabyn
William bpt 13 Aug 1767 St Mabyn
Jennifer bpt 22 Mar 1769 St Mabyn
Charlotte bpt 17 Dec 1771 St Mabyn d 19.Apr 1772
Thomas bpt 13 Jun 1772 St Mabyn
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 28 December 07 01:03 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

I have been on national Archives trying to find 'stuff' ... do you think that this may be one of yours and that St Tew = St Kew?

Online Document PROB 11/284
Will of William Harry , of Saint Tew, Cornwall
Date: 1658.

maybe something of interest...
Information relating to document ref. no. WH/1/5108/1,2
Post-nuptial settlement by 85 yr. lease (life of Grace Henwood); (also counterpart). Jn. {John?} Bone and Wm. {William?} Harry of St. Stephen-in-Brannel, yeos., to Thos. {Thomas?} Henwood of St. Ewe, yeo., on marriage between Jn. {John?} Harry and Grace
Date: 1666.

deb

just seen your post ...will read ... :D
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 28 December 07 01:28 GMT (UK): Rex

Who are the shoe maker Harrys in St Breock , Churchtown , 1841...

okay ...there is a Richard Harry (60) with Philippa (65), he is a shoe maker ...with William harry (30, ag lab) and William harry (13, appr)....few doors down ...Catherine Harry (50 Ind) with William Harry (25 shoe maker) , Ann (20), Jane (15) and Mary (11) , next door to them is a Cleave family...

I am sure you are getting sick of me asking who is who over and over ... ::)

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 28 December 07 01:32 GMT (UK): Deb
No I won't get sick of it,only sorry I have given you such a difficult family.I will see what answers I can find.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 28 December 07 02:24 GMT (UK): Deb
Richard Harry s/o William Harry and Margaret Cooke who married Philippa Tremaine,seems to have been a shoemaker or cordwainer.He is buried at St Breok.Philppa came from St Minver and is also buried St Breock (aged 78).Did I give you their 7 children born St Merryn and St Brock?

William Harry b St Breock who married Catherine Heard was a shoemaker.Just noticed something unusual.The parents of Catherine Heard were John Heard and Catherine Harry.Seems funny.
Catherine Harrybpt 22 May 1757 St Kew,married 12 Oct 1776 St Breock,John Heard b1751.
Their third daughter Catherin Heard b1788 was the one who married William Harry 1814.

I have the Census St Breock Churchtown a little different eg
Catherine 50 indep. William 23 Shoe Maker Ann 21 Jane 15 Mary 11
Interesting that a Cleeve family should be next door.Remember there was Rebecca Cleeve who I thought married a Harry but others insist it is Harris.

The name Henwood rings a bell.I will need to check.It might just be that I have seen the name frequently.

Thomas Henwood = Aug 1692 St Endellion,Hannah Linam d/o Richard Linam of Trewitherd (Parish of Endellion).
Not sure if this helps but could be a variation on Lynam.

I also have a note that a Richard Harry paid rent 1747/8 for the Manor of Polroad-- Lynams Tenement in Trelill twice.
Lynams Tenement is mentioned in the Will of John Lynam1715 ( I have a copy).Richard Harry thought to be a son of William Harry and Philippa (Lynam).Philippa Harry died 13 Mar 1746.( I have a copy of her Will also)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Friday 28 December 07 03:22 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

Thanks for all the info .... I am sure we will get it sorted , well maybe we will ... LOL

I will be back tomorrow ... strange that Heard=Harry= Heard=Harry....

Linam = Lynam ...I am sure is a variation.

I tried to read the 1624 .... eekkk , arrghhhhhh ..... :-\

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 28 December 07 23:27 GMT (UK): Good morning Deb
Like a bad penny I keep turning up.
No doubt I have confused you with the Will copies but I thought there might be a worthwhile clue within.

You made a posting 21 Dec listing 3 Harry possibilites.
This led me to the following speculation (I stress speculation).

Willielmus Harry bc1595
Married c1620 ??? don't know.

They had a son Willielmi Harry b1644

This Willielmi bpt 26 May 1644
Married c1680 ??? dont know
They had children:
Maria bpt 1681
William (1) bpt 1684
Joanna bpt 11 Apr 1687
William (2) bpt 17 Feb 1689
??? 1691 / was this John who married Margaret Hamley?
Dorothea bpt 8 Mar 1692

William Harry (2) bpt 17 Feb 1689 dC 1733 bur 15 Apr 1733

Married c1716 Philippa Lynam (widow) bpt c1688 d C1746 bur 13 Mar 1746
I have her Will.

If you need to take a rest from the Harrys for a while,please let me know.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 29 December 07 05:15 GMT (UK): Hi Rex

I LOVE the Harry family ...it's just that we are inbetween Christmas and New Year ...people popping in all the time .... and I am hosting the new years eve bash ... i have to organise ....

we will get the Harry family sorted ..... I think we have to go back to the roots of the family and work back .......

have to go to bed ....

deb :)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Saturday 29 December 07 05:39 GMT (UK): Thank you Deb
I really appreciate what you have done and doing.
Have a good rest.
Late afternoon here.Nearly drinkies time.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Aussie2307 on Saturday 29 December 07 07:03 GMT (UK): Hi deb and Lazarus, Just downloaded the latest messages, a lot of reseaching to do and matching it all up.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 29 December 07 18:06 GMT (UK): Hi Guys :)

There is a William Harry = Elizabeth ??
23 NOV 1672 Saint Buryan

they had:
FRANCIS HARRYE ~ 26 OCT 1673 Saint Buryan
JOANE HARRY ~ 24 MAY 1675 Saint Buryan
WILL HARY ~ 1676 Saint Buryan
PRUDENCE HARRYE ~ 10 JAN 1679 Saint Buryan

What if this is Willielmi b 1644 ...first marriage.... ?
then he went on to have the other kids .... I am running out of ideas ...LOL

do we need to fill in any gaps re; marriages and census details ....etc..

deb :)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 29 December 07 19:45 GMT (UK): Hi again

have just been going through John Harry's will of 1645,

John Harry = Honor ?
Their daughter Elizabeth Harry = George Bennett
(IGI: Elizabeth HARRIS = George Bennett 15 Aug 1626, St Kew)

There is a baptism of an Elizabeth HARRIE 1 Aug 1595 , st Austell, Daughter of John Harrie ......

Elizabeth Harry = George Bennett;
their children:
George Bennett
John Bennet of Donn***oat
Mary Bennett

found this on IGI:
JOHANNES BENNET
1627 Saint Kew
parents ~ GEORGIJ BENNET and ELIZABETHAE

MARIA BENNET
18 APR 1634 Saint Kew
father ~ GEORGIJ BENNET

I also see names: Nicholas Cann Smith?; Richard Dagg; Oliver ??; Richard Bennett; Jenifer ..... not sure how they fit in .....

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Saturday 29 December 07 20:00 GMT (UK): Good morning Deb
I need coffee.Still pretty early.
I have just emailed you the Will of Philippa (Lynam) Harry suggesting we might treat this as a fresh starting point.

I will review what you have found from the 1645 Will of John Harry.I think I pretty much agree with you and would like to consider your finds.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Saturday 29 December 07 21:33 GMT (UK): Deb
I have been looking at a site "Index to Historical Place Names of Cornwall"
http://cornovia.org.uk/ihpnc/ in the hope it might identify some of the place names we have difficulty in reading.No luck yet,but lots to look at.

With regard to the Will of John Harry 1645.
I think the marriage 15 Aug 1626 St Kew of Elizabeth Harry/Harris to George Bennett looks promising. ? we have the Harry/Harris/Harrie problem.

I think the George Bennett the younger could easily be the son of Elizabeth and George.
Also John Bennett may well be Johannes Bennett 1627 and Mary Bennett could be Maria Bennett 1634.

There is also mention of a Richard Bennett and John's grandchildren John and Mary Bennett,also George Bennett.

I agree that John's wife was Hon ,perhaps Honor or Honoria.

I have never been able to reason the variations Willimi,Willielmus,Johannis.
Someone once told me that a Bishops Clerk would sometimes attempt to write the names in Latin,hoping to impress the Bishop.

Was there a witness William Mathew Junior?
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 29 December 07 22:02 GMT (UK): Hi Rex ...

at first I thought the witness was William Mathew Jarvis ...but now I can see it is Junior...it is very difficult to read on the computer ,,,,

Who is the other witness above William Mathew? It looks like Mary Mathews , but I don't think women were involve with documents/ wills in those days, unless it was theirs. It could also be Harry mathews ..????

i also see the executor is Jn Williams??

It also seems strange that John Harry and Honor/ia would only have one child .... who is the jenifer?

deb

will look at the place names link
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Saturday 29 December 07 22:30 GMT (UK): Deb
I thought George Bennett Jnr was made executor.
Seems Mary (Bennett) is their only daughter (alive anyway).
I have a copy of the inventory of this Will.Looks as if the inventory was taken by Wm. and Andrew Matthew.
I will send you a copy.There is a place name I can't read.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: deb usa on Saturday 29 December 07 22:41 GMT (UK): hi Rex

Whose name appears after 'executor' ...last sentence ... looks like Jn someone ...

i think I found the christening of John Dagg...who was also Of st Kew ...tried to follow him to see if there were links to the Harry family ...alas Not

deb
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: krisesjoint on Saturday 29 December 07 22:51 GMT (UK): Hi Rex,

If you wish help in transcribing documents, I think it would be best to post a small section of the document to the common room. We have members who are very good at reading these documents. I am sorry but we can no longer follow this thread which seems to become a private discussion between 2 people, and after 12 pages I suggest it is time to bring it to a close and for you post separate, specific requests for the help you require or continue your discussion privately.

Thank You.

Cheers Kris ;)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: bilkeyfamily on Wednesday 17 December 08 16:05 GMT (UK): Did you ever get this sorted out? I'm researching William Boscombe c. 1770 Withiel m. Jane Harry 1769 St kew on 27 Dec 1791 with Son John Boscombe 1800 St Kew and at least 4 other children. I was told Jane Harry was the daughter of Richard Harry and Ann Lobb. William Boscombe 1770 Withiel was the Son of John Buscombe 1734 Withiel? and Catherine Lobb St Breock. Catherine Lobb was the daughter of Richard Lobb c. 1707 and Catherine Rescorla c. 1707 St Breock. Any information you could provide me would be great.

Thanks,

Bill

Deb
Richard Harry and Ann Lobb had Children:
William bpt 15 Jul 1753 St Kew = 6 Apr 1774 Egloshayle Margaret Cooke
Jane bpt 6 Jul 1755 St Kew
Catherine bpt 22 May 1757 St Kew = 12 Oct 1776 St Breock, John Heard

Richard Harry bpt 29 Jul 1740 St Mabyn and Ann/Anne Brown had children:
Jane bpt 7 Jun 1769 St Kew = 27 Dec 1791 William Boscombe
Mary bpt 1 Jan 1771 St Kew
Ann/Jane bpt 5 Nov 1772 St Kew d1846 / repitition of name also 1851 Census Chapple Amble aged 78 unmarried retired ladies maid.
John bpt 18 Jan 1775 St Kew
Margaret bpt 11 May 1777 St Kew
William bpt 7 Nov 1779 St Kew

William Harrey(sic) = 6 Apr 1774 Egloshayle, Margaret/Marjory Cook had children:
Richard bpt 1 Nov 1776 St Breock d19 Aug 1845 St Breock = Philippa Tremaine.
Jenny bpt 12 Sep 1779 St Breock unmarried
William bpt 23 Feb 1783 = 15 Jan 1814 St Breock Catherine Heard
Jenefer bpt 9 Jul 1786 d17 Mar 1866 aged 79 unmarried.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 17 December 08 20:16 GMT (UK): Good morning Bill
My research of the Harry family is an ongoing project which I revisit from time to time.
The data you have quoted is absolutely consistant with what you have quoted.
Just exactly where your family fits in,I would like to follow up today.I have collected quite a lot of data and have supporting material in many cases.

Nicholas Harry bpt 9 Jan 1800 St Stephen in Brannel,bur.11 Aug 1846 St Mewan,married Jane /Jennifer Hammer 18 Nov 1822 St Mewan.They were my great great grandparents.
A son John Hammer Harry b1837 came to Australia.

Back in the 1700s my Harry family look to have been living in the vacinity of St Kew.
In particular a William Harry married Philippa Lynam.She was a widow and had been married to John Lynam.I believe her to be nee Hick(e)s.There were Harry children and Lynam children.

I have obtained a number of Harry Wills,some dating back to the 1600s.I will need to look these out again.
I have the 1764 Will of Richard Harry of St Kew.I think from memory he had married Ann Lobb.

I had noted that a Richard Harry b1740 (perhaps s/o John Harry and Mrs Margaret Hamley,married Ann Brown 14 Jun 1768 St Kew.I think it was a daughter of this marriage Jane who married William Boscombe.

I think it best that I examine what I have more thoroughly before responding to you in detail.
In the meantime could you let me know more about what you have.I think the records so far back are incomplete and it is a matter of constructing families from various sources.
I am happy that we must have a great deal to share.

Rex
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: cornish-bill on Thursday 01 January 09 23:54 GMT (UK): Nicholas Harry = Jane Hammer 18 Nov 1822 at St Mewan. The family were at West Boscundle, St Austell 1841 census.Nick 40, tin miner;Jane 35;Maria 15;William 12;Nicholas 7;
John 4;Sophia 2 months
By 1851 Nick is dead but the family is at Bucklers with another son Henry age 7
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Friday 02 January 09 01:10 GMT (UK): Thank you Cornish-Bill.
I am familiar with the data you quote.
Nicholas was buried St Mewan 11 Aug 1846 aged 47.Jane/Jennifer was at Bucklers in 1851 with most of her children except Maria who was buried 9 Aug 1843 at St Mewan,likewise son William was buried 7 March 1849.
Son John Hammer Harry,aged 14 in 1841 is my great grandfather and came to Australia.He arrived Melbourne Feb 1854 on "Blanche Moore.
In 1861 Jane/Jennifer was at Brays Place aged 58 with son Henry aged 16.Henry married Elizabeth Hancock in 1874.
I do not know what became of my John Hammer Harry between 1851 and leaving for Australia.
Jane Jnr aged 20 in 1851,was buried 13 Dec 1851 (after the Census).
Nicholas Jnr married 1856 Elizabeth Skinner (Tonkin).

Do you happen to know anything about the locations where they lived or further details of the family ?
I found earlier generations in the vacinity of St Kew.

Thank you for your interest.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: cornish-bill on Saturday 03 January 09 17:08 GMT (UK): sorry no idea other than not in Cornwall 1861 census
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: bilkeyfamily on Tuesday 06 January 09 06:22 GMT (UK): Quote from: deb usa on Monday 24 December 07 20:05 GMT (UK)
Quote from: Lazarus on Sunday 23 December 07 20:45 GMT (UK)

I spent some time yesterday transcribing the 1763 Will of John Harry gentleman.It mentions his wife Margaret and a son Richard.It speaks of his estate in Lower Am------ (can't read),also looks like John Webbers tenement.
Can't be sure but I think this John Harry married 25.7.1725 St Mabyn,Mrs Margaret Hamley.I think she might have been a widow.They had children Jane 1727,Diana 1728 John 1730,William 1732,Elizabeth 1735 and Richard 1740.Only Richard is mentioned in the Will.

I wonder if this is Margaret Hamley's maiden name ...

Marriage:
Robert Hamley & Margaret Hewet 14 Aug 1702 , Lanviet

deb

Ps could you post a section of the will that you can't transcribe ... ie: the part about the estate ...lower Am ??

Rex/Deb, could the bottom of this post be the family of Margaret Hamly? From IGI. She would have been 17 and a half when she married John Harry on 25Jul1725 St Mabyn. Richard Harry 1740 St Mabyn would have married Ann Brown 18Jul1742 - 24Jan1827 on 14Jun1768 in St Kew. First child Jane Harry 7Jun1769 St Kew would have married William Boscombe 9Sep1770 St Breock (Died around June 1847) on 27Dec1791 in St Kew. Jane Boscombe (nee Harry) died around Mar 1847. They were in the 1841 census together in St Breock at age 70.

John Harry and Margaret Hamly children = Jane Harry 1727, Diana Harry 1728, John Harry 1730, William Harry 1732, Elizabeth Harry 1735, Richard Harry 1740. Richard Harry 1740 and Ann Brown Children = Jane Harry 1769, Mary Harry 1770, Ann Harry 1772, John Harry 1775, Margaret Harry 1777, William Harry 1779. William Boscombe 1770 and Jane Harry 1769 children = William Harry Boscombe 21Sep1794 - 1858 St Kew, Ann Boscombe 17Jul1796 St Kew, Jenny Boscombe 25Mar1798 St Kew, John Boscumbe 25May1800 St Kew-Mar1872St Kew, Catherine Boscombe 2May1802St Kew, Richard Boscombe 28Jul1805 St Kew, Dennet Boscombe 12Jul1807 St Kew, Elizabeth Boscombe 1809 St Kew and maybe Mary Boscombe 1792.

You mentioned that Ann Brown 1742 was likely the daughter of Samuel Brown and Jane Pain who were married 30Sep1741 St Kew.

William Boscombe 1770 was the Son of William Buscombe 26Feb1740 St Breock and Dennet Stone c. 1745 m. 7Oct1764 St Breock.

IGI of Margaret Hamly
Father
William Hamly
Christening: 03 MAY 1670 Saint Mabyn, Cornwall, England
Marriage: 20 FEB 1693 St Beock, , Cornwall, England
Burial: 14 JUN 1711 Saint Mabyn, Cornwall, England

Paternal GrandFather: John Hamly
Paternal GrandMother: Kathryn Brook
~~~~~~~~

Mother
Rebecca Dingley
Birth: About 1673 Of, Saint Mabyn, Cornwall, England
Marriage: 20 FEB 1693 St Beock, , Cornwall, England
~~~~~~~~
Siblings
~~~~~~~~
1. John Hamly
Birth: About 1695 Of, Saint Mabyn, Cornwall, England
Death: 03 JUN 1777
~~~~~~~~
2. Giles Hamly (Male)
Birth: About 1697 Of, Saint Mabyn, Cornwall, England
Burial: 21 SEP 1738
~~~~~~~~
3. Rebecca Hamly
Christening: 25 MAR 1700 Of, Saint Mabyn, Cornwall, England
~~~~~~~~
4. Thomas Hamly
Christening: 23 FEB 1701 Of, Saint Mabyn, Cornwall, England
Death: 21 APR 1719
~~~~~~~~
5. Joseph Hamly
Christening: 22 APR 1703 Of, Saint Mabyn, Cornwall, England
~~~~~~~~
6. Alexander Hamly
Christening: 09 FEB 1705 Of, Saint Mabyn, Cornwall, England
~~~~~~~~
7. Catherine Hamly Pedigree
Christening: 01 FEB 1707 Of, Saint Mabyn, Cornwall, England
~~~~~~~~
8. Margaret Hamly
Christening: 05 JAN 1708 Of, Saint Mabyn, Cornwall, England
- - - - - - -
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Wednesday 07 January 09 04:34 GMT (UK): Bill
I think that there is strong evidence,that the Will dated 1763,relates to the St Mabyn marriage 25 Jul 1725 of John Harry of St Kew,a gentleman and Mrs Margaret Haml(e)y.I have suggested that she might be a widow or previously married.However her title might simply indicate that she is a woman of substance ie marrying a gentleman.
I think we can assume he must have died c1763.
Margaret is likely to have been born c1708,youngest daughter of William Hamly and Rebecca Dingley.She would have been only 16 or 17 when she married John Harry,but this is quite possible.

The first child of John and Margaret,Jane b1727 St Kew,looks to have married William Painter 21 Aug 1751 St Mabyn.
Their son John 1730 St Mabyn may have married Mary Pawl(e)y 31 Jul 1750.I recall reference to Pawly's tenement.
I think we now agree that their son Richard 1740 St Mabyn married 14 Jun 1768 St Kew,Ann Brown.
A guess only but their daughter Elizabeth 1735 St Mabyn may have married 11 Jun 1753 Egloshayle,Thomas Ford.

Reverting to Richard Harry and Ann Lobb, I think their first son may have married Margaret/Marjory Cooke 6 Apr 1774 Egloshayle.
Theie daughter Catherine 1757 may have married 12 Oct 1776 St Breock,John Heard.

Please let me know if I am missing the point.Your comments will be appreciated. :P
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: angel24 on Sunday 13 September 09 05:42 BST (UK): Hello
I have a marriage certificate for a John Treloar and Mary Ann/nee James in 1854 Forest Creek Melbourne Australia and a witness was Nicholas Harry,

I have found a Harry Family in South Australia where the Treloar family settled after they arrived in 1847
so i am presuming this Nicholas Harry who signed the marriage certificate could be part of the Harry family from South Australia

Regards
Angel24
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: Lazarus on Sunday 13 September 09 09:04 BST (UK): Sorry but I am unaware of any of my Harry family having a connection with South Australia.
The names you mention do not ring a bell.
I did have a connection through marriage (Longsaff) at Forest Creek at that time but not Harry.My large family of Harry were at El Dorado via Beechworth.
I would love to think we have a connection.
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: angel24 on Sunday 13 September 09 09:58 BST (UK): Hi,
I do not know if the Nicholas Harry who was a witness at John Treloar and Mary Ann James wedding was from South Australia, he obviously was in Forest Creek at the time, would love to find where he was from,

but i read the newspaper story on Roots Chat about William Treloar from South Australia who is John Treloar's Father and on the next page it had a story about a fire and i think it mentioned a Thomas Harry,

Best of Luck with your research
Regards Patricia (angel24) ;)
Title: Re: Nicholas HARRY bC1834 St Stephen in Brannel
Post by: angel24 on Monday 14 September 09 10:39 BST (UK): Hello to researchers of Nicholas Harry

I have just found a will & probate reords for a Nicholas Harry in Victoria Australia who died 1876 he was a mine manager his wife was Mary Harvey he left an annuity of 20pounds for life to his uncle Samuel Harry of i think it is "Gunwalloe" near Helston Cornwall a farmer
i thought i would add this in case any of you might have a connection
i have a copy of the will if anyone would like it,
Regards Patricia (angel24)

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