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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Walcha72 on Thursday 13 December 07 05:05 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
While doing some random searching on ancestry and family search, I have found the following:
John MURRAY born 22 Jun 1814, Eskdalemuir, Dumfries, Scotland died 13 Sep 1886, Mt Crawford, South Australia.
Married Alison HOPE (sister to my 3xg grandmother) on 24 Aug 1840, Hawick, Roxburghshire, Scotland.
Alison HOPE born 3 Nov 1821, Roxburghshire, Scotland and died 9 Jun 1895 in Mt Crawford, South Australia.
Alison's parents are Thomas HOPE and Helen (or Ellen) PATERSON. I have no idea of John's parentage.
I have a list of their children as:
John born 1841 (at sea), died 1908 Eden Valley, South Australia
? (male) born and died 1844, South Australia
Helen born 1846, South Australia
Ester born 1848, South Australia
Alison Hope born 1852, died 1894 South Australia
Thomas Hope born 1854, died 1906 South Australia
Alexander James born 1859, died 1929 South Australia
William Albert born 1862, died 1901 South Australia.
Apart from John and Alison's marriage date which is from an extracted record on familysearch, everything else is either from a submitted ancestral file or the world family tree on ancestry.
Can anyone help to substantiate some of this or fill in some gaps?
Thanks in advance.
Debbie
PS This is my first foray into South Australia and despite looking at the list of resources at the top of the board, didn't seem to be able to get anywhere - maybe I just missed something obvious.
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Hi Debbie.
From the SA Births Index....
Esther MURRAY born 4 Sep 1848 at Murray Vale
Ref: Cra 8/131
Alison Hope MURRAY born 30 April 1852 at Murray Vale
Ref: Cra 8/131
Thomas Hope MURRAY born 15 Oct 1854 at Murray Vale
ref: Cra 8/132
Alexander James MURRAY born 24 Sep 1859 at Murray Vale Mount Crawford
Ref: Cra 18/404
William Albert MURRAY born 31 July 1862 at Murray Vale
ref: Cra S 25/211
I'll do some more checking for you.....
.....dee
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Hi Debbie,
I have the book of Register Personal Notices vol 1 1836-1859
This is the personal notices from the Local Paper.
Found 1 entry for you-
28 September 1859
On the 24th September, at Murray Vale, Mrs John Murray, of a son.
Sometimes you can stike it lucky & find a job or title listed, no such luck this time.
Sorry I don't have any other SA ref's
Regards
Shaz ;)
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Hi Dee and Shaz,
Thanks for the info you've found so far. That's great. I really appreciate it.
I'm about to head off home, so will check back tomorrow.
Have a great night.
Debbie
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From the Biographical Index of South Australians…..
MURRAY John
Parents = John and Ester nee Cowan
born: 22nd June.1814 Eskdale Moor Des ScT and died 13th Sep.1886 at Mt
Crawford SA
Arrived in 1841 on the CITY OF ADELAIDE
Occupation: Grazier, Pastoralist
Lived at Murray Vale, Mt Crawford, Nairne, Adelaide
Religion: Presbyterian
Married in Scotland to ScT to Alison HOPE born 30th Nov.1821 Box SCT and died 9.6.1895 Adelaide SA
Children:
John (1841-1908)
Child (1844-1844)
Helen DAWSON (1846-)
Ester CROZIER (1848-)
Alison Hope (1852-1894)
Thos Hope (1854-1905)
Alexr Jas (1859-1929)
Wm Albt (1862-1901)
More to come....
.......dee
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Here's a couple of deaths.....
Alison MURRAY aged 75 widow of Mt Crawford died 9 June 1895 at North Adelaide
Relative listed as John MURRAY (Deceased Husband)
Ref: Ade 227/237
Alison Hope MURRAY aged 42 of North Adelaide died 4 Jul 1894 at North Adelaide
Relative given as Alison MURRAY (Mother)
Ref: Ade S 220/157
......dee
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A couple more deaths.....
John MURRAY, aged 72 and married and living at Murray Vale Mount Crawford, died 13th Sep 1886 at Murray Vale Mount Crawford
No relative listed.
Ref: Cra 157/372
Thomas Hope MURRAY, aged 52y married of Mount Bevor died 29 Nov 1905 at Nairne
No relative listed
Ref: Nai 313/479
I cannot see a conclusive death for William Albert in 1901 though. There is a William Arthur who died in that year and his age matches, but no relative is given.
.....dee
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Another death....
Alexander James MURRAY aged 69 married of Medindie died 18 April 1929 at Medindie
No relative given
Ref: Ade 511/241
......dee
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Hi All,
A search of the Mt Crawford cemetery site reveals some Murrays, but information is scant..... PGN = Plot, Grave, Niche
All Surname Murray-
Kenneth Hope Mt Crawford SECT. A, PGN 7
Thomas Hope Mt Crawford, SECT A, PGN 7
W. A. ][??] Mt Crawford SECT A, PGN 5
A. SECT A, PGN 233
Alexander Ronald SECT A, PGN 1, 78 years in 2000
C. M. Scott SECT A, PGN 233
Florence Edith SECT A, PGN 7
J. SECT A, PGN 100
J. SECT A, PGN 5
Sue
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There's heaps more information about descendants of John and Alison if you would like it.....just let me know. I don't want to add more than you want. :D :D
I cannot find births for the other children though....maybe they just weren't registered. And I can't find deaths either.....
.....dee
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Good morning all,
Thanks so much for all the information you've found so far. I really appreciate it.
Dee, if you can find info on John and Alison's descendants, that would be great. It all helps.
Thanks once again for all your help.
Debbie
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Debbie....I'll PM you in a little while.....
......dee
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Hi everyone,
Dee has very kindly PM'd me lots of info on John and Alison's children and grandchildren, which has been very much appreciated.
While surfing during my lunch time, I've managed to find a link to Mt Crawford Presbyterian Cemetery, complete with photos of all but one of the headstones of this family!! How exciting!!
I thought you might all like to see the following 2 plaques that have been placed in the cemetery. I am particularly excited to learn about John's involvement with the establishment of the merino flock in South Australia. I grew up on a fine wool merino property and am currently involved in the auctioning of livestock, so this information is of particular interest to me.
Thanks once again for all your help.
Debbie
Images Removed Please see
http://www.australiancemeteries.com/sa/barossa/mtcrawfordpresbdata.htm
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Very interesting, Debbie, to see that Alexander Borthwick Murray was brother to John! I kept seeing him in various records and noticing naming similarities among children!
Re the Murray family and Rhine Park .....if you visit the State Library of South Australia website, http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/site/page.cfm
& search the catalogues and select the South Australiana Database,
you can find a picture of the homestead from approximatley 1870.
.....dee
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You can also find photographs of John and Alexander Borthwick Murray, and John Murray Junior and Thomas Hope Murray.
There's lots of reference material listed as well, including obituaries. The State Library has an electronic enquiry form that might be useful to you.
.....dee
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Hello
Web have a Murray of Langshaw Burn Research Unit here in Williamstown South Australia - and we are collecting as much information about th Murray's as possible - if you are going to publish a document we would like to know about it - so that we can source accordingly or let people know accordingly. :)
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I have just joined RootsChat and have found your message about the Murrays of Mount Crawford. My 3x ggrandmother was Helen Paterson, daughter of George Paterson & Jean Welsh of Eskdalemuir. She married Thomas Hope, who I believe was born in High Stanriggs, Half Morton, Dumfriesshire. Family legend has it that Thomas and Helen eloped to Gretna Green. Their numerous children included Jackie Welsh Hope who married Adam Murray and most of their children were born at Langshawburn where Helen Paterson Hope died in 1878. Many of their children went to New Zealand, some after a spell in Australia. Another daughter, Alison Hope, married John Murray. The family went to Australia and most settled around Mount Crawford. A third daughter, Isabelle, married Walter Murray of Liddesdale and had numerous children about whom I know little.
There is a Judgement of the Court of Session, which sets out the relatives of William Paterson, Helen's younger brother. One of George Paterson's grandsons, John Archibald Irvine, disappeared in Australia at the time of the Forest Creek Gold Rush circa 1858. He was declared dead and his share of his uncle's estate was distributed amonst the rest of the family - thus the Court Judgement.
Hope this helps but let me know if I can help further. N.
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Hi Twiglees,
I would love to compare further information with you on the Paterson and Hope families. I am descended from Helen HOPE and John MARTIN so mostly have information on them, but have managed to track down a fair bit of other info on the other branches as well.
If you make a third posting on Rootschat you'll be able to send me a Personal Message and then we can exchange email addresses etc.
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Debbie
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Hi Debbie
It looks like we are distant cousins. Helen was my 3x great grand aunt. I have come across a pedigree which is in the Dumfries Record Office from the estate of Helen Hope 'Hope' Martin who died in a nursing home in Hawick in 1993 aged 94. She and her sister had lived Woodbrae, Carlanrigg continually from before 1901 until just before their deaths. The Record Office docs included a couple of photographs. These photos are unidentified but, comparing one of them with a photo of Jane Hope/Oliver/Rogers, there can be little doubt that one is of Jane's sister, your Helen.
Nigel
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Hi Debbie,
I had a look on SA Births as well and found the following:
John Murray 25/9/1841 born aboard the "City of Adelaide" to John Murray and Ellen Hope.
Ellen Murray 19/6/1846 Mount Crawford to John Murray and Ellen Hope
Esther Murray 4/9/1848 Murray Vale to John Murray and Alison Hope Murray
Alison Hope Murray 30/4/1852 Murray Vale to John Murray and Alison Hope Murray
Thomas Hope Murray 15/10/1854 Murray Vale to John Murray and Alison Hope Murray
Alexander James Murray 24/9/1859 Murray Vale to John Murray and Alison Hope
William Albert Murray 31/7/1862 Murray Vale to John Murray and Alison Hope
(Mothers name given as recorded as maiden name on each entry).
Sometimes you have to dig harder for these, mispellings and wrong entries abound!
Hope it helps, best of luck with your research.
Kells :)
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Hi,
I have sent a PM to Twiglees so hopefully we'll be able to share some more information.
Kells - thanks for those birth dates. I had all but John's. The only date I had for him was 1841 at sea. It's nice to be able to fill in another gap.
It is interesting that John and Ellen have Ellen as their mother. It would definitely be Alison. Ellen (or Helen) HOPE was Alison's sister who is my ancestor and remained in Scotland. However, we all know that records can become distorted.
I will wait to hear from Twiglees to see how much further we can take the tree between us. I do have a fair bit of info on this Murray familynow though, thanks to Rootschatters.
Regards,
Debbie
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Hello Walcha72
I am new to RootsChat so have just seen your exchanges with ‘Twiglees’ re Hope/Paterson families and also your interest in Murray Merinos.
My 2x Gt Grandfather was Thomas Hope (b1785) who eloped with Helen Paterson through the bedroom window at Twiglees house. My Gt Grandfather was William Paterson Hope of Blough, Langholm who would, I think, be a brother of your Helen Martin of Carlenrig.
Re your original post concerning John Murray (b1814) and Alison Hope, I believe his parents were John Murray b1779 who died at Langshawburn 1849 and Ester Cowan, b 1781, died 1856. You may already have this, but I believe John’s parents were Adam Murray who lived at Castleton, Dumfriesshire and Elizabelt (!) b 1741, died 1819 at Langshawburn. (apparently she was related to 1st Earl Admiral Beatty.)
I was very fortunate to have as a close friend Adam Murray (d 1982 aged 93). [He was Adam Murray b1815 and Jackie Hope’s grandson] He, his brother and sister farmed sheep at Craighaugh, Eskdalemuir until retirement in 1950s. Adam passed on to me an 8 page history of the Murray Cappeedee Stud up to 1950. You may have seen it in your research on Murray Merinos?
Hope this is helpful. I have some other Hope/Paterson/Murray family info. If you or Twiglees wish to pursue please let me know.
K
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Hi,
I have sent a PM to Rashiegrain so hopefully we'll be exchanging information soon.
Debbie
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Hi all interested in Murray family of South Australia,
New to this so bear with me. I am a South Australian Murray, born and raised at 'Cappeedee' of the Murray merinos. I have a detailed history of our family in South Australia and its links with the Angas, Melrose, Bowman and McLachlan families.
I visited the graves of my ancestors in Eskdalemuir in Scotland a few years ago, and have been trying to form a detailed family tree from there. The oldest ancestor I can find is Adam Murray who died at Castleton, but no date given. He married Elisabeth Beatty, b.1741 d.1819, daughter of 1st Earl Beatty Admiral.
The family tree I have says the Murray's are cadets of the Murray's of Tullibardine, so I would like to explore Adams family further to find a link with the Tullibardines and Atholl branches. I have worked out that we are all descended from Edward the 3rd through the Beaufort and Stewart families, but there is a big gap in the 17th and 18th centuries that I am keen to see if Adams branch of the family emerged. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Hi,
I only have information on John Murray and Alison Hope and their descendants as I am related through Alison's sister, Helen Hope. I don't have anything going further back on the Murrays.
I will be quite happy to share what information I have gathered with you.
If you post another 2 messages we will be able to send personal messages and I can then share my information with you by email.
I will be at a course for the next couple of days with no internet access so please don't expect to hear from me for a little while. I will get back to you though.
Debbie