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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Warwickshire => England => Warwickshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: chilibear on Monday 10 December 07 19:08 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am trying to find out about my great grandmother who was Mary Ann Berry, born ca 1865 in Ratley, Warwickshire (according to the 1901 census). I believe that she worked in service near Buckingham and married in Buckingham to David Slater from Clay Cross or Pilsley, Derbyshire (although I cannot find this on BMI on Ancestry). Her first child, Harold, was born in Buckingham in 1885. By 1890 she was living in Derbyshire. All I have is the 1891 and 1901 census. Please help!
Chilibear
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I won't give all details of 1891 as presumably you have them but at: RG12; Piece: 2766; Folio 35; Page 64
Daniel Slater b Clay Cross
Mary b Warwickshire
1881 RG11; Piece: 3442; Folio: 133; Page: 17
Daniel Slater 24 yrs revivalist leader b Derbys Pilsley
Mary Ann 24 yrs b Derbys Lttle Morton :-\
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this is a puzzle - the 1881 couple are older by 10 yrs or so - maybe not the right ones.
However difficult to find a Daniel/ David who matches up in 1881.
1901 - Mary Ann is married but no husband
There is a Daniel in a lodging house in Derby and born Derby.
where did you get Pilsley?
1871 RG10; Piece: 2501; Folio: 41; Page: 38
David Slater b 1855 Pilsley is an inmate at Kingswood Reformatory School
(some interesting reading if you google for that).
By the way there is a possible marriage for David Slater to Mary Ann Lime (Limb) 1876 on Free BMD.
Also a marriage for Mary Ann Berry 1883 Buckingham but she marries Noah Chambers. (They turn up on 1891- so not yours)
I am aware that you are trying to find out about Mary Ann and Not David/Daniel- have just seen that you have some of this info already!
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It is looking like David and Daniel are the same person and that his age has been changed for some reason.
The link between the reform school and the revivalist leader is quite believeable to me.
Here he is in 1861: RG9; Piece: 2526; Folio: 32; Page: 17
Clay Lane (Clay Cross) Derbys
Richard Slater 26 yrs collier labourer b Chesterfield Derbys
Ann 27 yrs b Tibshelf
David 4 yrs b Pilsley
Mary 1 yr b Clay Cross
living with Parker family- Ann's brother.
David is not with the family in 1871.
Perhaps they met whilst he was preaching. As I said before you want to find out about her not him but until this is sorted - it seems difficult. Do you have her as Mary Ann Berry on all the children's birth certificates?
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hi
don't know if you've seen this record on 1881 census with a Buckingham connection:
1881 RG11/1526 70/14
parish Cropredy, Oxfordshire, registration district Banbury
James Berry, head, 62, basket maker, b. Cropredy, Oxfordhire
Eliza, wife, 61, b.Buckingham
Mary Ann, dau, 16, b. Coventry, Warwickshire
source: familysearch.org
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yes I saw that and am sad to say got totally engrossed in Daniel ;D
Now looking at Berrys in Ratley. - Banbury as you say.
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1871 RG10; Piece: 3179; Folio: 145; Page: 16
Mary Ann with parents and several siblings in Coventry. Can post if needed.
Decided to post because I think grlune is right re Mary Ann.
If David/Daniel are same person - then he marries Mary Ann Limb first (her niece is with that couple in 1881) . She must have died between 1881 and 1885 (if she died) and then he married (if he married)your Mary Ann (can't find relevant death/marriage yet)
20 Butcher Row Coventry
James Berry 51 yrs basket maker employing 1 man and 3 boys b Cropredy Oxfordshire
Eliza 50 yrs b Buckingham
Rebecca 22 yrs carder
Elizabeth 16 yrs trimming maker
William 18 yrs basket maker apprentice
Thomas 14 yrs -do-
Eliza 11 yrs
Hannah 9 yrs
Mary Ann 6 yrs
Francis John Lily apprentice 15 rys basket maker apprentice b Birmingham
all chn born Coventry
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Gosh, I never expected so many replies so quickly!
Heywood - I had looked at the various David Slater census records and was confused by the differing dates and places of births for him, as well as the David/Daniel thing - and my aunt who told me about him did not know that he was from Derbyshire nor any of his family's names, so could not confirm any details. However, despite David Slater sounding like a common name, and Slater being common in Derbyshire, I can only find one David Slater born in the Clay Cross/ Pilsley area during the right time, so my hunch is that they are the same person. Also there is a David Slater, born in Pilsley, married to a Sarah, in Leicester on the 1901 Census (Class: RG13; Piece: 3000; Folio: 76; Page: 18).
My aunt told me about David Slater's various wives (her grandmother {Mary Ann Berry}; one in Banbury - she seems to think that her uncle visited this one; and an affair with a woman in Leicester who owned a shop - probably the Sarah on the 1901 Census). She remembers her mother saying that they used to go to this shop and pinch things! She also thinks that David Slater had children with one of his other wives. She says that the Banbury wife died before 1906, when David Slater and Mary Ann Berry's last child was born. Mary Ann insisted on marrying him again, so that her children would be legitimate; unfortunately they split up shortly afterwards.
Currently I only have the birth certificate for my grandmother, Eva Slater who was born in Sheffield. It does have her father as David Slater, an engine tenter, and her mother as Mary Ann Slater, formerly Berry. I have sent away for some of the others, particularly the eldest son, Harold, who was born in Buckingham.
Thank you for your time and finding David/ Daniel interesting. Even if you only confirm my hunches, I shall be very grateful. By the way what is a revivalist leader?
grlune - I had tried to look up Mary Ann Berry before her marriage on various census's, but found rather a lot of them, but none seemed quite right. Part the problem is I do not know that area of the country, therefore am not certain where to look. The one that you have could be her, but Coventry is quite a long way from Ratley; would they have muddled up the place of birth quite so much?
I hope that answers some of your questions. I am really looking for advice from people who know more than me about these things. So far its very interesting.
Chilibear
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I think that the revivalists were the protestant groups again the Anglican Church. e.g. Medhodists etc
I wopuld imagine that if David/Daniel were the same person then he was perhaps influenced by his time in the reformatory.
http://www.infed.org/thinkers/carpenter.htm
Coventry to Ratley is about 26 miles (goggle map) so perhaps not too distant.
I am glad that you have sent for Harold's b.c. - may give some more clues. From what we have found and put together so far- if it is true..
1876 marries Mary Ann Limb
1881 with Mary Ann Limb in census in Derbyshire
1891 is living with Mary Ann Berry - no proof yet of marriage
1901 with Sarah in Leicester
I need to think about this - will be back
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righto- the 'Banbury' connection may well be your Mary Ann Berry - if the Coventry one is her- grlune but that doesn't fit in with your family memories.
1901 has him married to Sarah as you say.
Free BMD marriage possibility: 1898
Sarah Marsden and David Slater vol 9c pg 554 Ecclesall Bierlow (1891 census for Sarah fits with 1901)
but in 1899 Eva was born in Sheffield
and then they are all in Leicester by 1901 - Mary Ann, family and present wife Sarah - who owns a shop (it seems as though he is married to her though).
You could also get the final child's birth certificate to check.
it is quite fascinating- best wishes
heywood
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back again with a possible breakthrough!!
1881 RG11; Piece: 1484; Folio: 66; Page: 7
Chackmore, Radclive, Buckinghamshire
Marjarim Berry servant 16 yrs b Oxon Ratley
in the home of Perridge Salmons farmer and family.
It does look like Marjarim but was perhaps written down as Mary Ann and then transcribed as Marjarim by enumerator??
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I should have never found that census! It does look possible.
I understand that David Slater used to disappear quite often from the family home, leaving them in great poverty, and would reappear later. I think his families ran in parallel rather than consecutively!
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Any idea where Ecclesall Bierlow is? Its a great name!
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I always think that about the name- it's part of the larger Sheffield area so fits in with the errant David.
His religious interest seems to have been overtaken by an entirely different interest ;)