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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: mare on Monday 10 December 07 09:43 GMT (UK)
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Hi all
I am hoping one of you kind folk would be able to assist in my search for William Robert Cooke. I have been working back through certificates ordered from BDM Wellington but after a second lot of searching unable to locate.
I discovered a site where someone* (*sorry unable to acknowledge, beginner mistake, didn't take enough jottings) :-[ had posted a microfiche search listing for NZ BDM for Cooke. I was unable to open the marriage list but was able to search both the births and deaths. I was able to find William's son ( born later than expected) in 1901 which was helpful as there was no-one to ask and I didn't really know where to start as no family records.
When I ordered the birth printout it led me to the father William Robert Cooke aged 35 years at son's birth July 1901 and very pleased to find the Marriage date NZ and his birth stated as Brighton New Zealand. I asked for birth search for 1866 and a year each side. Helpful to have a correct name as he was only referred to as Charlie. Ordered one for William's wife stated age 34 at son's birth and also born in NZ and happily that worked out for 1867. Couldn't find William"s birth 1865-1867.
On William and Emma's marriage printout also ordered he has gained an extra forename, William Robert Martin Cooke marriage 29 June 1895, but curiously has lost some years as has Emma, now both aged 26 years. They may have assumed they were the same age (and lost track of time) I asked for a search for 1868 - 1870 but still not located.
BDM suggests that possibly his birth was not registered at the time. Brighton NZ clearly on son's printout but just Brighton on marriage, so perhaps not Brighton NZ.???
Hopefully I've posted enough clues, unable to pad it out much more actually.
Any help greatly appreciated thanks, due to work constraints I am unable to search any public records at this time. Appreciate it is a stressful time of year so the Cooke hunt can wait until the Christmas cooking is done :)
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Hi again
:)
Besides forgetting to sign my name I didn't put in William's parents names as on marriage printout.
Father was Aner Cooke ( unusual name which William also gave his son )
Mother Char.....? Cooke ( modified on printout maiden name Smart)
Can't read mother's first name loose and faint letters
Thanks again
Mare :)
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Hi Mare ... and Welcome :)
Mmmm ... lots of information, but am I correct in thinking, you're just trying to find the birth of William Robert COOK / COOKE ?
Yes, Brighton could be Brighton "anywhere" ?
OK ... some more details needed.
* 1895 marriage of William and Emma - where did this take place ? (Marriage witnesses .... ? COOK/COOKE )
* 1901 - the son was born where ?
* Any idea where William and Emma lived ?
* Have you got a death date / death place for William or Emma ?
Lu
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Hi Mare,
I think this is what you're looking for. Took less than three mins to fine on google. I can't make it work as our computer is a bit bung but you should have hours of fun.
http://www.angelfire.com/ga3/gretasplace/Resources/NZBDMs.html
Just call it an early Christmas present ;)
Cheers
Bunny 8)
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Quite right Bunny :D
8) That's exactly the site I was on Thanks
Mare
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Hi Lu
I watched my reply to you post off but it seems to have disappeared ???
Mare
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Hello Lu
How lovely to come home from a long work day to a reply and a welcome. 8)
Sorry my first request sketchy on the detail you have requested, I thought it was already a bit wordy ::)
To fill you in on a little detail and circumstance.
Aner Charles Cooke born New plymouth NZ 28.7.1901 (recent information gathered) I had very little knowledge of Aner, for nearly 40 years wondered about the first name and where it may have come from, he wasn't a household name though due to marriage breakup. I married his oldest grandchild and regrettably we didn't make an effort to find him before his death 1.10.1976. Discovered that death info recently on Purewa cemetery site, age unknown.
Aner had 3 daughters ( one still living but scant info ) eldest daughter died this year, 1923-2007. We have uncovered a couple of treasures in the form of war photo and letter and a good civilian photo. Really wanting some background of him for his descendants and not offending anyone doing it now.
So gathered Aner birth record New Plymouth NZ 1091 death Auckland NZ and his marriage record 28 Feb 1923 Auckland NZ dissolved 11.8.1953. There is a witness to his marriage Madge Cooke, Takapuna Auckland NZ probable sister :-\ had only heard of a brother with 'no name' as yet!
William Robert Martin Cooke/Cook? and Emma Allen/Allan marriage New Plymouth New Zealand 29.6.1895 Henui Church,witnesses appear to be her parents.
William and Emma must have been living in New Plymouth from their marriage in 1895 to son Aner's birth there in 1901 but anymore than that unknown at present.
Without a chance to go out searching and relying on cert. info. I was hoping someone with more research knowledge than myself might give me a helpful lead or have resources to explore. I have a little credit with BDM Wellington and happy to go there again if I can narrow down a search area. My options there at the moment are to try 1864 and 1871. Any suggestions most welcome. I did hear that William became Superintendent at Napier Prison, don't know years (prison now a hostel I believe) his occupation on Aner's birth is stated as Chief Warden.
I haven't found any deaths other than Aner, all dates are new and interesting, and for New Zealand 1860's fairly 'early'. I do have an 1842 arrival on my own tree. Have found no shipping lists to match Cooke/cook and have trawled through a lot of on line lists.
Thanks
Mare
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Sorry about that Lu
All new to me
"found" it sitting in preview
Was going to blame blimmin' Christmas post
Mare
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Hello
All google eyed :D Only another quick scan on BDM index Bunny highlighted.
I have great difficulty opening them up. We 'sent' the Cooke ones to the 3rd computer and able to look at births and deaths after heaps of attempts but not the marriage one. Sorry :-[ still to go through Cook, may find 'moment' to do that tonight though will be much later home.
Was hoping to find William's father Aner on death index, at least the name stands out.. but it didn't to me.. only the son Aner. If I can find William born here then that will help find more info for census lookups for his parents. William's dad Aner occupation stated as Veterinary surgeon at William's marriage.
Secretly hoping by some miracle there may be another branch of this early NZ family if William had siblings born here. Calling all Cookes (Cooks?) ;D
Mare
Should be getting more organised for busy day
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Hi Mare
.... just for starters ....
Charlotte SMART married Aner COOK
25 July 1841
St. Mary's Islington, London, ENG
[Source: IGI - Familysearch]
I think your man "William Robert", perhaps born England?
Still searching ...
Lu
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Hi, if you wish to send for a certificate for the above marriage the details are on FreeBMD
thanks Christine
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As Christine says, marriage appears on FreeBMD ... was hoping too that this same source might reveal a birth for William Robert COOK .... I haven't found anything, but you may like to take a look Mare ?
... the following (from IGI) ... maybe there's a family link ?
> Aner COOK (female) b. 5 March 1861
Chr. 17 March 1861 - Saint Lukes, Old St, Finsbury, London
Parents: Abraham Robert COOK and Anna Maria ?
> Abraham Robert COOK married Anna Maria SMART
15 November 1841 - Old Church, St. Pancras, London
Lu
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Nice work Bunny :) ... finding the abovementioned site!
I've managed to open "marriages" files (COOK & COOKE) -
the marriage of William Robert Martin COOK and Emma ALLEN
appears in the "COOK" section.
Lu
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Hi Mare
Having now found the Aner COOK / Charlotte SMART marriage, I get the feeling that William Robert COOK was perhaps born, Brighton, ENGLAND ?
Some "online" activities for you : -
1) Certainly contact the person who has posted the COOK / COOKE BDM info ~ there may just be a link to your family ?
2) William Robert COOK ~ "possibly Superintendent of Napier Prison" ... this job sounds like the pinnacle of a career .... perhaps William retired in Napier ?
(a) Check for a burial in Napier
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~shipstonz/cemeteries.html
(see Napier City Council link)
(b) Napier Library may have information about the Prison and its employees ?
3) UK Census - post "look-ups" at RootsChat UK
(keep the details brief ... good idea to have a look first to see how others have worded their enquiries) :
> 1841 - you may find Aner COOK ?
> 1851 / 1861 /1871 - search for Aner, Charlotte and family.
Good luck ... we look forward to learning what you've discovered. :)
Lu
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... not sure why the cemeteries link is not highlighted ?
Try again
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~shipstonz/cemeteries
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Hi, just to make this even harder Lucy2 is there a Brighton in Australia???
They could have gone England - Australia - New Zealand
or William Robert Martin Cooke could have arrived here by himself,
this is just an idea for I can not find a Aner or Charlotte Cook/Cooke
anywhere in any New Zealand records.
What do you think???
Thanks Christine
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Hi Christine :)
Yes, there are at least FIVE "Brightons" in AUS ! (And ... something I didn't know ... a Brighton near Dunedin) !
The family moving from ENG to AUS is a real possibility ... I only did a fleeting check of records there ... perhaps Mare could have a closer look ?
Cheers
Lu
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hello
:o
So quickly done there Lu 8) with contributions from Christine and Bunny
really showing me up on my research "skills" and I have looked at quite a lot of online Family History sites etc. ( do get a bit distracted tho' - just like going to put something in a cupboard and stopping to tidy the cupboard - I end up reading lots I didn't start out to look at ::) )
10 sparkley stars awarded for that and please take a share of my delight.
Great to see those UK marriages of Aner and Charlotte, and his brother and her sister marrying amazing enough bonus without the brother calling his daughter Aner!!! So that's an interesting tradition in the family????
AND did William start adding the E ??? I did notice on the marriage printout there was only a line beside the k like the start of an e.
So many questions for me but wonderful information.
OH came home midday and couldn't help peeking at what was coming in and is chuffed too.
(Robert) William, for some reason I keep wanting to refer to him as Robert was known as Charlie probably came here by himself I'm thinking. Unsure of his age as both ages marriage and Aners birth certs might be incorrect, partly why I didn't want to keep going back through Wellington for search until I knew a bit more.
Plenty to work on for now eh :) :) :) Mare
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You are SURE of the first connection, can't believe someone called Charlie could be a Robert.
Otherwise the whole Aner tree is someone elses, :-\
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Hi
Little sidetrack for Christine :) I have a small connection with NZ Clayton Otautau
Mare
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Hi Mk2_Zephyr
I think Charlie was just a preferred nick-name I'm thinking, perhaps he just wasn't keen on Bill or Bob
William Robert Martin Cooke on marriage and everything else on certs works out.
Mother-in-law did talk of him a bit but said he was known as Charlie??
What doesn't check out well is his actual age as he and his wife both aged ten years over just six years!! but I guess it was a tough 6 years.His wife Emma was actually the older age. The birthplace is another to get verified.
Thanks
Mare :)
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Hi Lu
I'm still working on the homework but lots of other homework to do too, will get on to census lookups first see if Wee Willie ;) is with his dad in the home country.
Tried to look at the cemeteries site you highlighted, but that didn't want to open for me ???
FreeBMD ??? went there but didn't enter any of my details for closer look. :-\
Took note of the contact may go there.
OH had already been given the task of following up Napier prison, visits Napier at least once a year . Will get him to see what lockups there were in New Plymouth, as visits there at least once a year too. Will see it all with new interest. Have friends and family both places may be able to enlist some help.
Thanks all for ploughing through my scrambled and lengthy information and getting some results. :)
Mare
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Hmmm ... not sure what's up with that cemeteries link ... I've just tried it and got an "error page" ???
Perhaps "google" for Napier City Council website ?
Lu
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Hi there,
Napier City Coucncil records are not yet online. They can be telephoned or visited in person, probably even emailed. They do have records but not all as some were destroyed in the 1931 earthquake.
Cheers
Bunny 8)
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Hi Mare
I hope you have better luck finding your Cooke/Cook family then I have with James Henry Clayton, but would be interested in what names that you have.
I am looking for a James Henry Clayton born approx 1851 England involved with newspapers arrived New Zealand approx 1870 married 1874 to Caroline Waymouth, second marriage 1875 to Emma Hester. They lived Dunedin, Christchurch, then Dannevirke, New Plymouth, Raglan and Tauranga, where ever James could start a newspaper the family followed.
Regarding cemtery listings try this
http://fhr.kiwicelts.com/Cemeteries/NZ_Cem.html
Thanks heaps Christine
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Further to Bunny's info ...
http://www.napier.govt.nz/
re: Napier cemeteries ... there is an e-mail link on this site which caters for "genealogical enquiries" ... and a further link to Napier Library.
Lu
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Hi Christine
Are you actively seeking info for James Henry CLAYTON ?
Is there a query posted ... OR ... a thread running somewhere on RootsChat or other ?
I have a few snippets of information about him.
Lu
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Hi Mare and Lucy2
I have started a new topic "James Henry Clayton born 1851 Middlesex"
Thanks heaps Christine
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Hi again Christine
Yes, that's a great idea ... I'll post some snippets to the new thread.
Lu
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... from the WISES NZPO and STONES directories ~
1908 WISES
COOK - William Warder, Shakespeare Road, Napier
[This entry is underneath one for a Wm. Thompson COOK - so it makes "Warder" look like it is a second christian name ?]
1911 - 1912 WISES
COOK - William Robert, warder, Coote Road, Napier
1912-1913 STONES
COOK - William Robert, gaol warder, Coote Road, Napier
[ Oxford Dictionary: "Warder" = prison officer
"Warden" = chief officer in charge of a prison ]
These listings are from a random search - couldn't "find" him 1914-15 or 1916 thru 1919 ?
Q : Did his son grow up / or marry, in Napier ?
Lu
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Good spotting thanks Lu
Haven't been on line, been sending/receiving emails between phone calls family bereavement overnight :'( favourite aunt 92, bless her
Thanks for spending time on look-ups.
William's son Aner assume would have followed dad from New Plymouth to Napier and left when became of age. Aner was 21 at marriage to Vera in Auckland NZ 28.2.1923 usual residence Takapuna Auckland, Vera's Avondale.
I couldn't spot William on that Cooke death index but I have yet to go back and look at the Cook one :-[ Perhaps Takapuna next family move as there is a witness to Aner's marriage, a Madge Cooke, Bretts Avenue Takapuna. I haven't much knowledge of where to look for these things and so grateful for help in sharing your resources.
Ta again
Mare
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Those 1914 - 1919 War years just thinking, Aner was in Egypt WW11 as I have a letter from him to his daughter.
Mare
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Hi Lu/Mare
Napier Prison was in Coote Road and Shakespeare Road runs into Coote Road up on Bluff Hill.
Bren.
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Thanks for that info Bren
Beginning to paint a picture with little details coming through :) :)
(beginning to need much better filing system :P )
Mare
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FOUND ... Death of William Robert COOK
[Details .. additional to those posted on UK Census look-up thread] :
Waikumete Cemetery - Auckland - NZ
COOK - William Robert
> Retired Prison Superintendent
> died - 12 July 1953 > Place of death ?
> aged 92
> Comments: Cremated 13/7/1953 / Dr de Clive Lowe, Dominion Road / Dr. Drury / ashes scattered 14/7/1953 /
place of death ?
> Last residential address : 435 Dominion Road, Mt. Eden
> Davis Funeral Services
_________________________
[Info Source : Waikumete Cemetery - Waitakere.govt.nz]
Burial info for Emma COOK / COOKE (wife) - NOT found at Waikumete :
Lu
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Thanks Lu
That's Wonderful / YOU'RE WONDERFUL
:D :D
I'll get back to BDM online with ref no and get her to resume the birth search 1861 and a year each side for starters and I'll be watching the post :) and you can watch this post :)
Mare, fingers and toes and eyes crossed :D
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Hi again
Silly me not thinking clearly well past bedtime .. Williams parents on 1861 census London without him so will ask birth lookup 1861/62/62 just to cover it
Mare
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Hello
good news first :) post delivered today death certificate for my William Robert COOK, nice and straightforward seeing as Lu had given exact date 12 July 1953. :) :)
where born = Brighton...how long in NZ 92 years.. father Aner Cook Veterinary Surgeon, mother Charlotte Cook nee Smart. Married New plymouth aged 28 yrs to Emma Allen, Children 3 male 2 female, all living 1953. 52 yr male my Aner Charles COOKE born 1901.
I do have another marriage cert to apply for, William married aged 75 yrs to Kathleen Dorothy McDonogh. Found year 1937 in Cook marriage index and found her death in 1960 in Cook death index, also cremation details Purewa Cemetery Auckland.
While looking through the Cook Death index I found William's father Aner 1888 in Charleston and Charlotte Cook 1891 Buller Westport. There was also an Amos 1912 Chch and an Amos 1942 Chch could be connection 8)
not so good news
William Robert Cook birth, none the wiser have three certs 3 different ages now and no word from BDM on lookup yet. Hoping I didn't miss an email as computer compacted Sept 29 to Dec 22 inbox into 'someplace I can't find' ::) :P I had just checked inbox though and am hoping to get another post delivery...any day now :) :)
I'm believing Brighton birth NZ now especially as I have his parents in sight here. If he was never actually registered as BDM suggested, how did he get on without a birth certificate or didn't it really matter then? :-\
Mare ... quite :)
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sorry had to leave something out ;)
Cook death index found possible Emma ... Rangitikei 1930 :-\
Mare
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Hi Mare
Great news that you've found Aner and Charlotte COOK on the COOK /COOKE listing of BDM's.
Ah .... BRIGHTON, New Zealand .... not surprised it's been hard to find .... it is now apparently known as "Tiromoana".
(Located on West Coast - 1866, the mining camps / setttlements of Charleston, Brighton and Addisons were in the Nelson Province and Provincial District)
"Google" for further information - "Charleston", "Brighton"
~ Wikipedia has good descriptions of these places.
.... and here's Aner COOK ... (and, a "Walter Robert" ?) ...
BULLER ELECTORAL ROLL - 1879 - 80
> COOK - Aner - shop and dwelling, Main Street, Brighton
(household qualification)
> COOK - Walter Robert - house, (iron ?)
1882 - 84
> COOK - Aner - Blacksmith, Brighton (residential qual.)
1885 - 86
> COOK - Aner - Brighton - blacksmith (res. qual.)
> COOK - Walter Robert, miner, Charleston (res. qual.)
? I'm wondering if this Walter Robert COOK might be the son of Abraham Robert and Anna Maria (1861 UK census) ?
Does Walter Robert COOK appear in the COOK BDM listing - is there a death perhaps ?
Not sure whether you've ordered printout for William's second marriage yet ? ....
> COOK - William Robert
> McDONOGH - Kathleen Dorothy
> (*)
_________________________________
Lu
(*) Moderator Comment:
Information deleted as it is likely to contravene NZ law (BDMRR Amendment Act 2008)
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8) Lu really 8)
Thanks for that must have been a bit tired trawling through those Cook indexes last night , I see now that the (*) marriage is Robert William :-[
... I wasn't sure if ordering it would throw me anything new on him (another alt. age maybe ) but would give me her details. I will go for the death cert Aner in Charleston for starters I think. Still haven't seen anything on the lists that could be our William's birth but I don't expect it to be fully complete anyway but fingers still crossed for BDM search.
Interesting on Brighton, so it isn't the Dunedin one but West Coast. I've been looking at all the shipping again and still haven't come up with anything there.
I've made a start on West Coast Times, Cook, Veterinary Surgeons, nothing yet. No cemetery online records for Buller district.
I will go through those Cook indexes again, ( I resent the Cooke marriage one to other computer and I can open it now ) have looked at all a few times but will give them another go. I saw an Abraham Cook 1903 death Dunedin and another Amos Cook death Chch 1947.
Aner was a farrier UK so blacksmith makes sense, perhaps Walter was helping forge iron.
I'll keep you posted and thanks heaps for your input.
Mare
(*) Moderator Comment:
Information deleted as it is likely to contravene NZ law (BDMRR Amendment Act 2008)
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Hi
Cook death index 1923 Walter Robert COOK #535 Buller 1 qtr
also
Cook marriage index
COOK Walter Robert
ATKINSON Celia Frances
1908 #7325
Mare
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WISES DIRECTORY - 1878-79
> COOK - Amos* - blacksmith, Brighton
> COOK - Mrs - dressmaker, Brighton
*Amos .... Mmmm .... interesting :-\
[I think these people are most likely Aner and Charlotte?
Walter Robert COOK does not appear in directory] .
Lu
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Hi Lu
I'm sure you're right, they are most likely my pair. Amos/Aner curious why names change, both biblical names as was brother's name Abraham. He was definitely named as Aner on certs I've seen so far but, as with his grandson Aner's certs, must be open to interpretation as couple of times has been rewritten in caps beside or above name and comment made on the Cooke index. The UK census had him as Amos. They don't really sound alike for mixup though. I don't know the names of William's children yet, 2 brothers and 2 sisters but I'm picking an Amos! seeing a couple on index.
I'm not expecting William to have siblings?? as Aner and Charlotte were in their mid forties in 1861 census with no children (unless any they had had left home) Wondering even if William was born in Brighton but not to them?? Would it have to mention adopted on his marriage and death certs? I'm still trying to stay patient on the lookup for his birth. I've certainly found out a lot of interesting snippets while waiting though. Hope information is helping someone else too.
Mare
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Hello again :)
William Robert Martin Cook ?? ?? Still nothing from BDM Wellington for his birth lookup unfortunately 1861/62/63
Today I received his father's death printout
Aner Cook miner died Charleston 22 July 1888
Name and Surname of Father William Cook
Maiden Surname of Mother McKeown
Where born Sussex England
How long in New Zealand 27 yrs
Where married London England aged 28 yrs to Charlotte Smart
but.... the column I wanted... If Issue living state Number Age and Sex .. . is blank ???
It does appear Aner and Charlotte came to NZ in 1861 after UK census April 1861
William's death cert states 92 yrs NZ so points to 1861 too
Don't really have anywhere to go but sideways now and don't have names of my William's other 4 children, only his son Aner. Choices possibly William, Amos, or Abraham for the 2 boys and did he give them Cook or Cooke ??? There was a Madge Cooke witness at Aner's wedding to Vera so guess that is one sister.
Any suggestions welcome, any help from 'knowing' Cook or Cookes welcome ;D
Despite not getting any further with the birth search through the 1860's for William I have been pleased with all the help and information I have received from my first foray on Rootschat. Thanks EVERYONE :)
Mare
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Hi Mare
The "living issue" blank on Aner COOK's death cert. is, ... disappointing ... but perhaps also, interesting ?
Mmmm ... I need to think about this for a bit.
Lu
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I think maybe Aner born 1901, was the Charlie, rather than William Robert.
I'll check the BDMs for William today.
What age was Aner (Wills father) on the 1888 death ?
Is it possible that Aner had a brother come out to NZ at same time ?
Also the possibilty that William Robert was born on ship out !
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Hi and thanks
Sorry... Aner William's dad died 1888 aged 75
Mk2 .. Aner, William's son is my lead and I do have his bmd certs, born 1901 NZ .
I can see I've thrown you with the Charlie bit which was all I had in my head to start with from family recollections for Aner's dad William Robert, maybe it was in memory of his mum Charlotte.. or not! ;D certain from all cert info now I have gfather Aner 1901 ggfather William 1861 (no cert) gggfather Aner c1813 and ggggfather William c? ( who married a McKuown, I typed McKeown previously but looks more like a 'u' than 'e' )
William Robert Brighton NZ birth on marriage and death certs.
Finding the vessel they came on might throw light on it though :)
Walter Robert we think Abraham's son was aged 15, 1861 possibly came out separately
Be back again later tonight, have a long day at work today and shouldn't be distracted by this!
TA :)
Mare
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Hi Mk2_Zephyr
Long shot ? Just wondering if William Robert's birth, "may" have been registered under the name of "William Robert MARTIN" ??? [See first post in this thread - marriage to Emma 1895 - his name appears on cert. as "William Robert Martin COOK" - Mmmm .... wonder why he has inserted this additional name of Martin] ?
He's seemingly not the birth son of Aner COOK (and we haven't yet established whether Charlotte is his mother) ...
just a little curious also as to why the "E" has been added to the "COOK" name at the birth of his (William's), son Aner Charles ?
Lu :)
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HI :)
Options?
Birth lookup William Robert MARTIN?
Death cert Charlotte COOK?
Getting costly ::)
It is a bit puzzling, he could have been raised by Aner and Charlotte from birth and considered them as his parents. Interesting name progression William after his "grandad" then he names his son after his "dad"
I've looked at ships coming in 1861 (and after!) and not found anything on lists to match for Aner and Charlotte might have more luck on ships leaving UK (findmypast?)
I will give it a wee while before I order more certs.
Thanks
Mare
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Checked births, 1859 - 1863, nothing . :(
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Ok,
amassing the evidence, sorting the wheat from chaff. :)
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Hi Mare and Zephyr
No, I wouldn't pay for a BDM search on "MARTIN" option (I just popped it in, in case Zephyr may have had time to look at that as well) :) It's perhaps the next move (after other avenues have not proved fruitful) ?
Charlotte's Death cert. might though be worth splashing your "last" 20 bucks on Mare ? May help just to know whether or not she was his birth mother ?
I'm in the midst of a West Coast search myself, so don't mind doing a few look-ups for others at the same time (ha, and I've got seemingly "unregistered" births with my lot also).
Just spotted this in a book - "Charleston - It's Rise and Decline" (Irwin FARIS) - has 5 or so pages on "Brighton".
"Once called Bright Town ... was originally known as Fox's River (being near to a stream where Wm. FOX discovered gold in 1866). Rapid formation of new town called Brighton which came into being January 1867. October 1867 approx. 2,800 residents / March 1873, only 110 residents/ 1878 = 53 persons (dwindled to 18 in 1896-97). In 1878 businesses in Brighton were limited to - 1 hotel, 2 stores, 1 baker and 1 blacksmith ! It is believed that the first white child born at Brighton was .... a James COOK (hello) ? ... and 1st white girl, Margaret O'DONNELL - both it is said were born in June 1867 ! (hello again?) [I checked 1867-68 and couldn't see James COOK] ! Name of Brighton Post Office changed to Tiromoana on 1st Dec. 1908 (to avoid confusion with Brighton in Dunedin) " : Incidentally, Brighton at it's height, also had a BDM registry / registrar.
I have no idea how well-researched this book is (the James COOK birth sounds a bit "suss" to me (I didn't get time
to check the girl's birth) ? And a tad "spooky" that the "apparent first birth recorded at Brighton" was for a child named COOK ??
Mare , who was the informant on Aner COOK's death cert (oh ... I'll bet it's the funeral director) ?
Lu
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I agree Charlottes death should be the next certificate, unless Will Rob C pops up tomorrow.
In regards to the wedding ages, never trust them as they always try to get closer for appearances.
Having a bit of difficulty with Aner snr, as hes down as a BLACKSMITH, MINER and VET, ???
I will check for the Martin birth as well.
Could you please put up the 1861 census, so we can have a jack at it. :)
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.... 1861 ....
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,273423.0.html
:)
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!!!!!
Well how was that for 3 am kicker.
So an Aldophus Cook was sailing around in 1861, had 2 kids born in NZ, one a WILLIAM R COOK born 1865 ish and was back in UK by 1881.
and that Walter Robert now looks more likely too, amazing how having the rest of the story helps. :)
Next thing is how come, THAT Will Rob didn't show up ?
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Hi
!! 3 am for me sometimes too but I can't allow myself to be too distracted as have huge workload on and already getting little sleep.
Happy really :) to do a 'final cert' can do Charlotte death.
Witness for Aner death R Fleming Warder of Hospital Charleston.
Mk-2 I have William Robert as an only child of Aner and Charlotte arriving c1861 NZ
the Walter Robert appears to be Aners nephew, son of Abraham aged 15 1861
Off to work again now :P
Mare
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yep, thats what i meant, good possibility that Walter is Abes son.
and that William R on the 1881c isn't William Robert, tho he was born 1865 in NZ.
Interesting morning,
No William Robert Martin that fits the bill.
No William Robert Cook(e) 1859 - 1869
but
Now fairly sure the change to COOKE was a turn of century thing.
Possible births:
1896: John Eric Norman COOK [262] New Plymouth
1897: William Robert COOK [...] New Plymouth
1901: Aner Charles COOKE "
Possible marriages:
1921: John Eric COOKE m Margiritte Louise MOONEY [06402]
1924: William Robert COOKE m Annie Elizabeth NORTON [09972]
E. roll 1924
John Eric COOKE Clerk Bretts Ave, Takapuna
Madge COOKE married "
Now fairly sure William was not a birth child of Aner and Charlotte.
I believe the MARTIN addition after his parents deaths is definitely some clue and if John Eric Norman is Williams kid, I think another clue.
Maybe you should try for J E N Cook birth or marriage ?
my 2 cents and your 15 minutes, :)
Good Luck
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Hi Mare, Lucy2 and Mk2 Zephyer
Have found the following passengers travelling on a ship leaving Victoria.
COOKE CHARLOTTE - age 28 - ship EUREKA - left JAN 1862 - for PORT CHALMERS JAN 1862
COOKE WILLIAM - age 30 - ship EUREKA - left JAN 1862 - for PORT CHALMERS JAN 1862
How can't be to many Charlotte Cooke (correct spelling) coming into New Zealand but husband is William just to spice things up.
Regards Christine
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Hi :)
A good mornings' work Zephyr (and matchsticks to keep ya "peepers" open too, no doubt - after the 3 AM effort) ?
William Robert now looking likely to be an "informally" adopted son of Charlotte and Aner (unless Charlotte's death cert tells otherwise) ? There is always the possibility that a surname has been transcribed incorrectly. Some of the handwritten lists on the birth index cause a degree of headscratching at times. Faded pages ... spidery script - "COOK" could also be "Coak" / "Cock" / "Cork" etc. ?? Same applies to the old passenger lists.
COOK versus COOKE : Appears the "E" has been added only at births of the children of William Robert and Emma ?
The e/rolls and Wises directory listings for Aner/Charlotte and for William Robert, all show up as COOK. Likewise the UK census records show COOK to be the spelling.
[Aner - blacksmith ? 1878 Brighton - only a handful of businesses remaining - in particular, 1 blacksmith (probably Aner himself) ? Lots of horses about - only 1 blacksmith -a "jack-of-all-trades" .... horse doctor ? "Veterinary surgeon" ?? ].
Madge COOKE : (Marriage witness, of Takapuna) =
Marguerite Louise MOONEY [the wife of John Eric COOKE] ?
("Madge" dim. for Margaret, Marguerite).
"MARTIN" - a clue ? Yes, well I had thought this may have been his original surname ?? Odd, "Martin" only appears on his cert. for first marriage ? [Hmmm .... extra name ... an "e" added to COOK ... might he have been just simply trying to impress Emma ... or his new parents-in-law] ?? ;)
Lu
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Hi Christine
I think you are probably on the right track in hunting for a voyage from AUS to a South Island port. Seems there were though, huge numbers of vessels headed to the West Coast during the gold rush .... but sadly not a lot of passenger lists in existence.
[Charlotte / William COOKE - "Eureka" - 1862 - aged 28 & 30 ? Hmmm ... Charlotte shows as being aged 41 on 1861 UK census ... perhaps she could have "knocked a few years off " ? But no "Aner" on list ?] .
Lu :)
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:o I trudged to work thinking William had better not now be James Cook after all our endeavours ;D ;D I knew you were waiting for me to say that ???
You have all done so much again and I appreciate it thanks
Brighton.. If it wasn't called Brighton until 1867 I'm back to the age I thought he was first, however I looked in that Cook birth index and very few Cook births that year and no James, William, Robert or Charles. ( there was a Charles Cook Timaru and 2 William Henry Cook Auckland and Tauranga.)The only West Coast Cook birth I can find that year is an Ernest William Montrose Cook.
There was a James Cook born Motueka 1862 and a William Cook in 1862 Mt Grey then a James in Dunedin 1863 then a Robert in Dunedin 1864 and none of those names 1865. Think I'd better stick to WILLIAM c1861 even though can't find any registration. The only year I haven't asked for a lookup 1860's is 1864.
1896 and 1897 births New Plymouth look perfect for William's older boys great find thanks Mk-2 Zephyr. Ages of children on William Robert death 1953 were males 62. 61. 52. females 60. 44. No issue 2nd marriage to Kathleen. See they both picked up an 'E' on marriage as you say turn of century name change starting with Aner 1901. So confusing. but that 1924 roll clinches it for John Eric Norman and another William Robert eh.
Findmypast ships leaving UK after 1890 so no good to me on this one ( haven't found any of my later ones leaving on that site either anyway )
With all your help and time spent I'm so much further on and a further $40 away from a little more.... willl send for Charlotte's death printout first.
Thanks a million
Mare
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stray thought maybe not very smart ???
Smart is Martin :P
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..... ??? .....
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..... ??? .....
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Like I said not very smart sorry
I'm throwing everything including a grain of salt into the broth in the cookpot now (Cooke/Potte) :P
William named his second son after himself, so may have called himself Charlie after he came along. I was thinking of his mother Charlotte Smart and wondered if he derived the Martin in his name from her surname
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Smartin ;D ;D ;D
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Probates:
COOK John Eric Norman - Auckland ex Napier - Retired Prison Superintendent - 1978
+
COOK William Robert - Auckland - Retired - 1954 !!!!
which would saved a few steps.
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..... Probate record at Archives NZ - Christchurch
> Walter Robert COOK - Westport, hotelkeeper - 1923
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::) What's cooking with these Cook older boys, born Cook, marry as Cooke then retire the E when they retire ???
No more smart remarks, except I did find a Margaret Smart Cook death (*) (aged 87 if I read list correctly, would make birth 1879 so could be an unmarried daughter of Walter aged 33 in 1879 ) but I can't find a matching birth.
Very interesting John following dad's profession, M I L spoke of an uncle and I guess that was him, and the prison info blended. Sorry I've been totally lost going into looking for probates so far so thanks for that help. M I L first anniversary this week, I think she would have been very interested in what I /we have uncovered so far and especially regarding the spelling of name.
End of week may have another cert to peruse, sending for Charlotte death printout.
Thanks
Mare
(*) Moderator Comment:
Information deleted as it is likely to contravene NZ law (BDMRR Amendment Act 2008)
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.... random selections from ....
1896 BULLER ELECTORATE
COOK - Walter Robert, Millerton, publican
COOK - Eliza, married, Millerton
COOK - Ellen, spinster, Millerton
[all residential qualifcation]
1919 BULLER ELECTORATE
COOK - Walter Robert, retired hotelkeeper
COOK - Eliza, married
COOK - Rosanna, spinster
[all at Romilly Street, Westport]
* Treat with caution .... don't know whether the "Eliza" shown here "is" the wife of the "Walter Robert" ?
Do Eliza / Ellen / Rosanna ... feature on the COOK / COOKE BDM list ?
Lu
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Unless you legally change your name, I think the government will correct it on their records when they can.
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ANOTHER late night you 2.
I'll have to look at those lists tonight for the new names.
Interesting re names change, I knew you could use different names obviously but must be nightmare for Govt Depts if they have to sort out correct ones, at least we only have 2 close versions.
Back later and thanks again
Mare
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:) Took me a while but came up with one good match right at the end for birth of Rose Anna Cook 1883 Charleston #515
Closest I could find for a marriage possibility for her
1920 Rose Hannah Cook to Leonard Andrew Young #5183
Couldn't find a death entry for Rose Anna
Closest I could find for a birth for Ellen was
Helen Cook 1874 Greymouth #225
4 poss marriage entries for Ellen between 1896 and 1919
1900 to Andrew Stevens #3484
1904 to Thomas Cook #3261
1910 to Walter Penwell #4273
1916 to Harold Oliver Scott #2411
If the marriage entries had place of marriage on them could be more selective
Unable to find Eliza death
There was an Eliza Hall visitor with Abraham's family UK census 1871 aged 32, she may have married into the family.
Putting 2 and 2 together gradually together with heaps of help from Lucy2 and Mark2 :D
Mare
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Hi again
Received today the death printout for Charlotte COOK
death 11 Sept 1891
age 72 yrs
parents William and Frances Smart
when and where buried 15 Sept at Orawaiti
born Cambridge England
how long in NZ 30 years
where married London aged 21 to Aner cook ( Aner not written clearly it looks a bit like Enoch )
Issue BLANK
informant undertaker Westport.
Disappointing
BUT
Good news is I was contacted by pm yesterday by a grandchild of William Robert COOK and we're working through assembling information between us which isn't a lot but helpful to us both. There is one very big PLEASE help from any other rellies who may have any photos for both of us of any of the Cook family ( or even one kind soul with a sole one ) as at present between us we just have the very few of Aner I mentioned. I guess another avenue would be to track Emma's Allen line which I haven't attempted yet, there may be some there. Prison may also be able to turn up something if they photographed wardens.
I no longer need help for William and Emma family names, as now have the 2 daughters' names and their marriages
May Dorothy Cook birth year unsure could only see a Dorothy May born Auckland 1898
and Mary Charlotte Cook born Napier 1909
May married William Newman 1929
Mary married Herbert Culver 1968 her death 1985
Mare
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William Robert COOK age still a mystery
another cert ref by grandchild gives his age in 1909 as 39 and Emma's 40
I had another quick look at 1870 but no match again
But I have a little scenario
maybe a "Brighton' " ;) (Mk_2 that was just for you ;D to go with the Smartin) but enough chaff from the ole grey mare
baby Aner born March 1861 to Abraham and Anna may have been brought up by William and Charlotte as their son and named William
what do you think ?? he isn't on the next census with Abraham and Anna and Walter their older son came to NZ at some point and was with Aner and Charlotte'
William may just have assumed because he grew up in the area that he was born in Brighton ( which wasn't named Brighton until 1867 )
I guess I'm just back to where I started and may never know
Mare
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William Robert COOK Recap on ages/years from cert info (aka William Robert Martin Cook)
marriage 1895 age 26 = 1869
birth son 1901 age 35 = 1866
birth dau 1909 age 39 = 1870
death 1953 age 92 = 1861
and depending in which month he was born of course
he's a right'n and maybe that's where the Charlie comes in :D
( and some family from Marton wouldn't you know it :D )
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Hi again Mare
Well I guess we should be none too surprised at learning that the "issue" column on Charlotte's death cert., shows as a blank ? More positively though, further "confirmation" that Charlotte and Aner COOK have arrived in NZ around 1861.
It appears that the child Aner COOK - born London - 1861 to Abraham Robert and Anna Maria COOK, has died.
FREE BMD UK shows a birth registered for "Aner COOK - June quarter - 1861 - St. Lukes"; and a death in the same registration period, also St. Lukes.
[ Aner COOK's baptism, (on IGI), just 12 days after his birth,
may hint that this child was not expected to live long] ?
If perchance, there remains 20 bucks in the kitty, Mare - (yes, an expensive "hobby" this is) - the death "printout" for Walter Robert COOK (1923), would be worthwhile obtaining ? To confirm - (a) his parentage, (we're only speculating at present, that the chap in Brighton / Charleston, is the nephew of Aner and Charlotte) .... and (b) "Years in NZ". If he has arrived after say 1870, "he's off the hook", BUT, if prior to that, then there's the possibility he may have fathered an "illegitimate" child? (Perhaps a child "adopted" by Aner and Charlotte) ?
Who know's what his death cert. might reveal ???
Some kindly, fellow RootsChatter, may also do for you, a look-up of the probate record for Walter Robert COOK - 1923, held at Archives, Christchurch ?
Lu
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Thanks again Lu for your suggestions and a great help as usual
I hadn't thought of getting Walter death printout but as you say it may give us another idea and I certainly hadn't given a thought of him as a possible parent of William. You've seen so many twists and turns in your own lookup Vic -Mge currently growing amazingly on Aus board I guess anything is possible. At least I only had an E in the Cook name variation to puzzle over and I have to be thankful now that Aner had an uncommon first name.
Abraham and Anna were not young parents of baby Aner either and I thought Charlotte may have 'taken him in' but I wasn't aware that the death was registered in the same quarter, I did notice early baptism and thought they may have done that before setting out for NZ. If only there were more records to scan of all those early sailings. I originally presumed he had not lived long as not on next census :'( and neither was Walter but he would have been approx 24 in 1871 and probably in NZ, or independently elsewhere. Perhaps the next step is to see Walter's 'how long in NZ' and 'issue' on death printout. Christine we do need a 'eureka' moment with those shipping lists.
Mare
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A couple of things,
That book entry were it said the FIRST birth was a Cook, I think this is a clue.
Second, there weren't that many births in NZ in those days and it would be possible to scan thru ALL the births, relative to the region, looking for a William Robert ...... :o
and just another, William Robert Cooks death notice in paper or Will would sort the rest of the kids out.
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Hi Mare ... and ... Zephyr
Mare, ... "anything is possible", sure is the way to think, in this game ! :)
.... Zephyr .... that Brighton info in the book, which I dug up, I really think needs to be treated with great caution !
Why? ... well, I didn't / couldn't find those c. 1867 births which were quoted (James COOK) and the other .... AND .... there aint no record of the KINGSTON / McKEE marriage ... for any year ! ::)
Lu
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Hi
Result probate file courtesy of Stephanie :)
Walter Robert COOK
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=281989.new
9 children but unable to find births on index of first 4 have located later 5 starting with his namesake 1st qtr 1877 in Charleston, others followed 1879, 1880, 1883, 1884.
So now I have Walter Robert earliest record in NZ for birth of son 1877 so far and probably not the father of my William Robert Cook, just the cousin ???
Mare
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Sometimes I think we stray a little too far. :)
Anyway try these,
Frances Charlotte C m Evan Kaye 1887
Frances Kaye m Charles Allington 1899
Emma Cook m Michael Roache 1891
Ellen Cook m Andrew Stevens 1900
William Richard C m Ellen Mary Moffett 1896
Alice Emelia Cook m Oliver Fitzmaurice Stokes 1902
Rose Hannah C m Leonard Andrew Young 1920
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Agree not wanting to stray too much into Walter's family but interesting all the same finding he had 5 of his children born in Charlston. I haven't as yet ordered a death cert for Walter, which was partly to get him off the paternity hook for my stray William. It appears Walter probably wasn't in NZ until mid 1870's as I haven't any dates relating to his family before 1877. Family names also sorted for Buller Electorate postings Lu gave for 1896 and 1919. Didn't know of any family from NZ West Coast before all of this either so learning something there.
William's grandchild who has contacted me also had no knowledge of extended family so have sorted a few relationship questions for both of us.
Thanks All :)
mare
Thread moved to completed 16 November 08 .... any new contributions very welcome :) mare
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Mare,
This is very exciting. Our branch of the family has been investigating the Cook whanau for a while, spurred by those "Who Do You Think You Are?" programmes.
A random Google search brought up your thread about William Robert Cooke. I gather that William's parents were Aner and Charlotte Cook (nee Smart). I had been investigating those very people, but apart from a reference to them in the 1861 England census they appeared to have been lost from English records. I concluded that they had in fact emigrated, and was delighted to find that this was the case. Thank you for posting!!!
In the 1861 England census, Aner is actually "Amos" in the records, born 1814 in Wilby, Suffolk and living in St Lukes, Middlesex with his wife Charlotte. At that point they have no children (apparently).
As they do not appear in subsequent English census records, "Brighton" on William Robert's birth certificate is likely to in fact be Brighton, New Zealand. I think it strongly likely, as Walter Robert Cook was born in Brighton, New Zealand in 1876.
Returning to the 1861 census records - Abraham Robert Cook and wife Anna Maria (nee Smart - the sister of Charlotte) are Aner and Charlotte's neighbours. I suspect Abraham and Aner are brothers but have not been able to prove the link yet. Charlotte and Anna are certainly sisters - their parents are William Smart and Frances (nee Gibbons/Gibbins). They also had two brothers - George and Henry.
Abraham and Anna had seven children altogether, all of whom, apart from the first, were born in London. I can give you their names if you like... What you'll probably be interested to know is that Walter Robert is one of them - born 1847, St Lukes, London. Walter Robert (or WR1 as we call him) came out to New Zealand in 1873 (we estimate). He married Elizabeth (maiden name an issue - we have 5 different spellings) and had nine children (Maria Murphy, Frances Ellen etc, etc).
So.... Walter Robert and William Robert were in fact cousins (if Abraham and Aner are brothers which seems likely). And it explains why Walter Robert settled his family on the West coast - makes sense if Aner and family are already here.
I can tell you as much as you want to know about Walter Robert (WR1) - he is my great, great grandfather.
As I said - delighted to find your post!!! I think that makes us cousins umpteen times removed or something... If you have any more info, or would like more info from me then get in touch.
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Mare,
Forgot to mention - we have a researcher working in the UK with us. She recently had a breakthrough regarding Abraham's (and therefore probably Aner's) parents. Their father was William Cook, born about 1781 in Suffolk (probably Wilby), married to an Elizabeth, also born 1781 in Suffolk. We have yet to track down how many children they had.
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Wow Lizzie and this will be a hundred thousand welcomes from me to Rootschat ;D
Take it you are in NZ then working with a UK researcher :-\
Like you I have assumed 2 brothers marrying 2 sisters but I know very little pre NZ emigration apart from the help I had on here re census UK so I didn't know about George and Henry Smart, though I had gathered Walter Robert had come to join his aunt and uncle in NZ.
We have mentioned Walter's descendants on here from his probate record but you will have that covered well in your line already no doubt.
Haven't made any advance on the Brighton birth actual record for William Robert... doesn't seem if there is actually a piece of paper to be had, though still pointing to a date of 1861 from his death cert, so believe his parents came after the 1861 census... again I have no actual record.
Exciting is an understatement ... I'm thrilled you have made contact
:) mare
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oooh I missed a bit there ... Walter Robert was born in Brighton NZ 1876 ... I had assumed he was born in UK and came to join is aunt and uncle ...so did Abraham and Anna stay in NZ ?
ps I decided, perhaps wrongly, to not order any of Walter's certs which would have given me that birth date NZ
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... Walter Robert was born in Brighton NZ 1876 ...
ok slight confusion there ... perhaps another Walter Robert ( his son of course )
I knew I should have had more sleep last night ...
on rereading I see you say all Abraham and Anna's family born London
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Hi Mare,
Thank you for the fast reply! Yes, I agree, exicting is an understatement!
Walter Robert born 1876 in Brighton, NZ is the son of Walter Robert, born 1847 in London. It's really confusing, hence why we've dubbed them WR1 and WR2.
Abraham and Anna (WR1's parents) stayed in the UK. Abraham died in Southwark, London in 1885. We think Anna died about 1901. The census records gradually give you more info - 1841 is useless, but records begin to list occupation and addresses. Abraham was born in Wilby, Suffolk. Anna was born 1818 in Cambridge. Her sister Charlotte was born 1820 in Cambridge.
I gather you got the marriage record for Aner and Charlotte: 25 July 1841, St Mary's, Islington, London. In the 1841 census I can only find Aner living in St Leonard's in London. The next time they appear is in the 1861 England census. Aner (or 'Amos') and Charlotte were living at 55 Galway Street (there was a Tailor's shop at 54). Aner's profession is a "Farrier". He is 47 (hence born in 1814) and born in Wilby, Suffolk. Charlotte is simply listed as "wife", age 41 (hence born 1820), born in Cambridge. After that they disappear... TO NEW ZEALAND!! (Am over the moon to have solved the puzzle).
From WR1 down...
WR2 and family gradually moved North up New Zealand and eventually settled in Auckland which is where we are now. I take it you're in Christchurch, is that right? We knew that a branch of the family was in Chch, as Grandad had visited at some point, though of course he was a young unmarried man at that point so my father never met anybody. Though Dad understands that Wm Richard (son of WR1) settled in Christchurch. Grandad visited them at the Lancaster Park Hotel in Christchurch, of which they were the proprietors. Seems it was in the blood - both WR1 and his daughter Alice Amelia were hotelliers. Jack Henry came to Auckland and later settled in Melbourne where he died, we think sometime in the early 1960s.
How I fit in:
WR2 > John Harold Cook (grandad) > Peter John Cook (dad) > Elizabeth Anne (me)
Dad is actually jumping up and down beside me and struggling to contain himself.
I'd love to know your side of it ---
Lizzie
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Hi again
Any current records you can keep quite private.... there is a PM facility ( personal message ) now that you have made 3 posts that is open to you ... the little green scroll lit up under our names when on line is a quick route to PM.
William Robert married in New Plymouth and most of his family was born there, he then moved with the Prison Service ending his days in Auckland. My late MIL who was his grandaughter was born in Auckland and that is where we are.
There is a lot I don't know about William Robert and his line, it was news to me until I started this that he had 3 sons and 2 daughters, I only had his son Aner to start with so luckily it is unusual enough a name to have got as far as I have with everyone's help on here.
Rootschat has also been the contact point for another descendant of William Robert also who put the name into search this time last year and came up with this thread ... magic :)
I will PM you now which will give you a chance to reply if you wish ... funny if we're neighbours :)
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Super. Didn't know about PM having just subscribed, but good idea.
L
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Lizzie do you know if there is any family information regarding Aner and Charlotte before coming to NZ .. or at least possible likely yarns ?
They were not young when William Robert was born and I have wondered if there were any previous births/deaths of children between census records. On their death certs they both have no living issue although William Robert was alive ( realise that is only as accurate as the informant's knowledge) and they are named as his parents on his marriage and death certs.
:) mare
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To be honest I haven't much information at all. Aner born in Suffolk, Charlotte in Cambridge. They married in London. Interesting - they obviously moved around a bit. It was the industrial rev at that time though, so I suppose a move to London for those who wanted to find a better situation was a common theme.
Where did they meet? That's what bugs me. Abraham and Anna are also married in 1841. Did Abraham and Aner go to Cambridge at some point and meet the girls there? Or did Abraham meet Anna, or Aner meet Charlotte, and at the marriage of one couple the other couple met? The Smart girls' father was a Schoomaster, so unlikely that Abraham and Aner would have had 'trade contact' with him. (Abraham was a shoemaker/seed grinder/butcher and Aner was a farrier).
Then there's young Aner/Amos/Anos, born in 1861. The birth record at IGI (familysearch.org) says that he is actually a she. 'She/He never turns up in census records after England 1861 though. Named after his/her uncle? Or actually Aner and Charlotte's offspring? IGI lists Abraham and Anna as the parents... Confusing. My guess is either he/she died (not uncommon) or he/she went to live with a grandparent somewhere. I know that Abraham's first daughter Frances Charlotte went to live with William and Francis in Cambridge, so it could be a family trait. My guess though is that Aner died - he/she is only 1 month old in the 1861 census and Charlotte was already 41 at that time.
Unusual for Aner and Charlotte to have had no offspring until Wm Robert. Maybe he was the miracle child born later in life? Maybe they deliberately didn't have any children until they had a 'new life' in the colonies and a better chance of survival.
So many questions....
L
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... agree so many questions ... anyway just trying to absorb what new info you have given.
If you look at reply no 77 on page 6 of this thread from Lu she has found a death registration in the same qtr as the birth for that child Aner to Abraham and Anna (believed to be a boy and perhaps mistranscribed as a girl )
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Hi Mare,
Read all the posts thoroughly this morning. You've all been so busy!!
Jumped on IGI last night to see if I could find anything for Will Rob's birth. I found one record: :)
William Cook
Christened: 26 Nov 1865, Saint Mary, Harmondsworth, London
Father: Amos Cook
Mother: Charlotte
What do you think? Looks likely?
Might also shed light on shipping lists? Will have a hunt and see what turns up.
Name changes are a common occurence. Abraham was often known as Robert, and both Walter Roberts were always known as Bob. Anna Maria is recorded as Maria in later census records. William Richard was known as Uncle Dick. Ellen was known as Nellie, Frances as Fanny, etc. 'Aner' and 'Amos' seem to be interchangeable in all the records so far. Would explain why no records here. Reference to 'Brighton' on marriage cert a possible problem, but as I think you said at some point, info is only as good as the informant...??
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Hi Liz
So who has been busy then ;) 8)
That looks pretty good for a Christening doesn't it ... as you can see I have him at different ages on his certs .... then there is the possibility I suppose that he may have been born in Brighton NZ as the certs say and they made the journey back to London and Christening done when William was a young boy :-\
I have perused the shipping lists into NZ through the 60's and not spotted anything likely so far, some lists may have been updated since and you never know what a fresh pair of eyes may see of course.
:) mare
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Hi Mare ... and ... Welcome to RootsChat, Lizzie :)
Jumped on IGI last night to see if I could find anything for Will Rob's birth. I found one record: :)
William Cook
Christened: 26 Nov 1865, Saint Mary, Harmondsworth, London
Father: Amos Cook
Mother: Charlotte
What do you think? Looks likely?
Mmmm ... pretty sure we covered this baptism record, earlier ?
On the IGI there is another extracted record from this same parish, which gives details of a marriage for "Amos COOK and Charlotte MAY - 1865". It does seem much more likely, that Charlotte MAY (rather than Charlotte SMART) is the mother of this particular William COOK.
Lu
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.... perhaps a check of 1871 census (for this Amos and Charlotte Cook) may help rule this William out ?
Lu
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Hi Lu, thanks for rejoining and Happy 09
Wasn't aware of that baptism myself previously...
Interesting re another Amos and Charlotte nee May marriage 1865 and as you say the William could certainly relate there
Has your UK researcher covered that Lizzie ? ( uncovered that marriage )
:) mare
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Can't contain myself :D Just had to share what I found while clearing out the house of the sister of my late M-I-L over the weekend ....
.... a WHOLE BOOK covering the family lines of Emma Allen who married William Robert Cook the subject of the OP.
Emma was the daughter of Charles Allen and Elizabeth nee Hamblyn so when I saw the title Hamblyn Family History I got rather excited.
Aunt did remember attending a reunion but didn't have much recolllection of names ... they're in the book!
It covers the Hamblyn history from Plymouth to New Plymouth 1841 to 1976 and is by M. N. Shaw.
The author, Margaret Noeline, appears to have other family history publications also.
There are bound to be other copies out there but I am happy to refer to 'mine' :D to answer any queries.
:) mare
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That's wonderful news Mare ! :)
[And all the "hard yards" done for you too. ] :D
Lu
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Incidentally, I don't know if you ever spotted this ?
It appears to confirm that a "Walter Robert COOK of Brighton" was "the nephew of COOK of Brighton". ???
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/
Grey River Argus - 13 April 1880 - page 2 - "Resident Magistrates Court"
and ...
West Coast Times - 7 September 1880 - "Supreme Court"
Lu
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Thanks very much for leading me right to those Lu, Liz may have already found it, I abandoned searching the papers on the coast earlier on in the thread after spending hours finding nothing and hadn't been back :-[
Walter must have thought his uncle would be known by that hotelkeeper in Greymouth then! :D ...Walter became a hotelkeeper himself, in Westport
Interesting that the pub doors opened for customers before the banks did! Perhaps they were open all night :-\
:) mare
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;D I had heard tell that the pubs on the West Coast never did shut!
How awesome to see all of the help and support you have had here Mare :D
Cheers Ev
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Howdy Ev :)
It's a lengthy read but yes as you say really awesome, to start with a few clumsy clues and get so much help and encouragement. Such a bonus having family contacts from info posted in the thread also.... hopefully that will keep coming ;)
:) mare
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Hi Lu, Hi Mare,
Yes, I had found those papers in which it seems one of mine was busted doing something he shouldn't. Oops!! Hehe. Have to say I was quite excited - so far it's been disappointing to not find any more skeletons in the closet! And what a bonus having WR essentially speak from beyond the grave "I'm the nephew of the Cook at Brighton".
I agree Mare, it sounds like Aner was well-known in the area and probably well-respected if WR made a habit of introducing himself as his nephew.
Anyway - thought I'd post a recent update on our research. Ancestry are always extending/modifying their records, and you can see all the info from a marriage cert without buying it to see whether it's the right one. It came up with marriage banns for Aner and Charlotte Cook (Will Rob Martin's parents). Seems that when they married Aner was a widower. I initially got all exciting thinking that maybe Will Rob was somehow connected to Aner's first marriage, which would explain the blank issue on Aner's and Charlotte's death certificates. Then I realized the dates don't match. Not even a little bit. Nuts.
I'm working at it though. Still can't find Aner and Char in the 1851 census, so perhaps they were abroad for a while...
Onwards and upwards...
Liz ;D
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Still working on it quietly too Liz ...
I had seen Aner on the IGI for marriage 1935 prior to his 25.July.1941 marriage to Charlotte Smart,
...Aner Cook spouse Martha Elizabeth Kindred
marriage 26.July.1935 Saint John The Baptist, Shoreditch, London, England
I've assumed it was him, though haven't had a census lookup as yet.
:) mare
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:) Took me a while but came up with one good match right at the end for birth of Rose Anna Cook 1883 Charleston #515
Closest I could find for a marriage possibility for her
1920 Rose Hannah Cook to Leonard Andrew Young #5183
Couldn't find a death entry for Rose Anna
Closest I could find for a birth for Ellen was
Helen Cook 1874 Greymouth #225
4 poss marriage entries for Ellen between 1896 and 1919
1900 to Andrew Stevens #3484
1904 to Thomas Cook #3261
1910 to Walter Penwell #4273
1916 to Harold Oliver Scott #2411
If the marriage entries had place of marriage on them could be more selective
Unable to find Eliza death
There was an Eliza Hall visitor with Abraham's family UK census 1871 aged 32, she may have married into the family.
Putting 2 and 2 together gradually together with heaps of help from Lucy2 and Mark2 :D
Mare
Hi
The Rose Hannah Cook who married Leonard Andrew Young was a great Aunt of mine, and Ellen Cook married Arthur Penwell in 1910 - Ellen and Arthur were my grandparents. Rose and Ellen's parents were Paul Cook and Elizabeth (nee Chambers), and they lived in Oaonui, in Taranaki.
Paul was born in Scalby Yorkshire in 1855 and emigrated to New Zealand in 1880 aboard the "Maraval". I have reasonably good details of this Cook family - particularly from 1800 to 1984.
Eric Penwell
Wellington, New Zealand
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Welcome to RootsChat Eric.
Thanks for sifting those names from the mix and the added information, helpful to me and no doubt others searching the Cook name as well.
I was sidestepping the direct line of my own search there into another branch, just looking for possible links.
When I discussed some of this search with elderly aunt at the time, she seemed to think name changed in her line from Cook to Cooke when her grandparents were in Taranaki to avoid some mix up but couldn't clarify and of course both relatively common anyway.
:) mare
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Welcome to RootsChat Eric.
Thanks for sifting those names from the mix and the added information, helpful to me and no doubt others searching the Cook name as well.
I was sidestepping the direct line of my own search there into another branch, just looking for possible links.
When I discussed some of this search with elderly aunt at the time, she seemed to think name changed in her line from Cook to Cooke when her grandparents were in Taranaki to avoid some mix up but couldn't clarify and of course both relatively common anyway.
:) mare
Good to hear from you Mare
My Taranaki Cook's have continued to use the Cook name - which is fairly common surname. It takes a lot more sorting out when researching a common name than it does with more uncommon surnames. Although even with uncommon surnames their can be many variants which need to be considered - especially in the 1800's and earlier. Its always good to have someone else to compare notes with even if not related, so can eliminate some people rather than making incorrect assumptions.
;D Eric
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Hi there
I am the grandson of Sydney Raymond Cook who is the great nephew of Paul Cook.
I have a reasonable amount of info about these Cooks but would love to find out more/share
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Belated welcome to RootsChat Scott, I haven't been about here since you posted.
Hopefully Eric will be able to share a few snippets with you if you have a connection there.
:) mare