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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Bellejazz on Saturday 08 December 07 05:33 GMT (UK)

Title: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Saturday 08 December 07 05:33 GMT (UK)
I am trying to find a death for Mary Anne Gibbs who married Thomas Winnel/Winnell in 1899 in Wagga Wagga.
There are several possible births for her so at this stage I am unsure who her parents are.

These are the possible births:

16811/1872     GIBBS      MARY ANN     FREDERICK             MARY               RICHMOND        
16822/1872    GIBBS     MARY ANN    GEORGE                    JANE                RICHMOND      
2151/1873     GIBBS      MARY A E       JOHN WILLIAM    ANNIE             SYDNEY      

There is another Mary:

3719/1879      GIBBS     MARY          JOHN WILLIAM       ANN                   SYDNEY   

which is almost identical to the one above for John William and Annie. I have seen a number of cases now where children are named after older siblings which have died so I'm wondering if that has happened here which would discount the 3rd Mary, narrowing the Mary I am looking for down to the first two.

To make it even more interesting Thomas's brother Samuel Joseph, married Ethel A Gibbs in 1902.
At first I though maybe 2 sisters had married 2 brothers but when I searched for a birth for Ethel Gibbs this is all I found:

27810/1886      GIBBS      ETHEL A      EDWARD N      ELIZABETH MCC      WAGGA WAGGA 

So perhaps rather than sisters the girls were cousins?

Thomas died in 1924, perhaps Mary remarried?
At least one of the children went to Victoria, maybe Mary followed him there?

Also, while we are on this family, can anyone find any other children for Thomas and Mary?
So far I have found:

Grace, b 1900, ?
Thomas R, b 1903, Wagga Wagga
Ena, b 1906, Murrumburrah
Joseph Norman, b 1914, Leeton NSW

Any help would be much appreciated :)

thanks,
Belinda.
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: tropicalj on Saturday 08 December 07 05:59 GMT (UK)
Hello  there Belinda

a  death  in Victoria for  you

MARY ANN WINNELL Died in 1968 aged 88 at Oaklands reg no 22481

father Edmund Gibbs  mother Ann McCrudden

will  look around  for  her birth

regards JEnn
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Saturday 08 December 07 06:00 GMT (UK)
ok
that's interesting!

thanks Jenn.
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Saturday 08 December 07 06:08 GMT (UK)
Jenn that tip was all the info I needed to find this:

26575/1884      GIBBS   ELIZABETH M      EDMOND NORMAN   ELIZABETH     WAGGA WAGGA     
35357/1891    GIBBS    WALTER N       EDMUND    ELIZABETH            WAGGA WAGGA      
8642/1880    GIBBS    MARY A                   EDMUND       ELIZABETH                          ALBURY      
36120/1893    GIBBS    LANGLEY V    EDMUND N    ELIZABETH    WAGGA WAGGA      
7398/1878    GIBBS    CHARLES A    EDMUND N    ELIZABETH    ALBURY      
21350/1876    GIBBS    HENRY EDMUND    EDMUND NORMAN    ELIZABETH WAGGA WAGGA      
27927/1889    GIBBS    EDMUND L J    EDMUND W    ELIZABETH    WAGGA WAGGA      
27810/1886    GIBBS    ETHEL A    EDWARD N    ELIZABETH MCC    WAGGA WAGGA      

Looks like I was right about 2 sisters marrying 2 brothers!

thanks
Belinda.
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Saturday 08 December 07 06:09 GMT (UK)
oops, missed one

36210/1897      GIBBS      HAROLD T      EDMUND N      ELIZABETH      WAGGA WAGGA
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Saturday 08 December 07 06:11 GMT (UK)
Marriage:

 4038/1874      GIBBS      EDWARD      MACRUDDEN      ELIZABETH      WAGGA WAGGA
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Saturday 08 December 07 06:12 GMT (UK)
All the spelling mistakes on the registries sure complicate things for us family history researchers  ::)
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Saturday 08 December 07 06:13 GMT (UK)
I wonder if this is his birth:

 V18513152 37A/1851      GIBBS      EDWARD      CHARLES      LYDIA      
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: tropicalj on Saturday 08 December 07 06:14 GMT (UK)
Yes Belinda spelling errors  are  the bane of any  genealogist.

Not only  could  the register make  mistakes  but often  the informant wasn't aware of  the correct spelling.

Glad you  have now  sorted  this  out.

kind regards Jenn
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Saturday 08 December 07 06:16 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your help Jenn
:)

- Belinda.
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Saturday 08 December 07 06:18 GMT (UK)
I am still looking for any other children of Thomas and Mary Winnel/Winnell
So far I have found:

Grace, b 1900, ?
Thomas R, b 1903, Wagga Wagga
Ena, b 1906, Murrumburrah
Joseph Norman, b 1914, Leeton NSW

Any takers?

:)

- Belinda.
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: tropicalj on Saturday 08 December 07 06:20 GMT (UK)
as the  index only go online to  1906  you will  have  to  wait for someone with  the  next set.

you will see at the top of  the board a  listing from OZZYBOB  who  has this particular index and is willing to do lookup

regards Jenn
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: tropicalj on Saturday 08 December 07 06:25 GMT (UK)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,164646.0.html

this is the thread
regards jenn
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 08 December 07 06:48 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Well now you must have a look at the National Archives  for the ww2 service history for your Joseph Norman Neil Winnell.

You will find in the digitised version his wife's full name, date of the marriage, place of residence and a not all together flattering sort of character reference. :D
He was a butcher.
Sue
http://www.naa.gov.au
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Saturday 08 December 07 12:58 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Well now you must have a look at the National Archives  for the ww2 service history for your Joseph Norman Neil Winnell.
You will find in the digitised version his wife's full name, date of the marriage, place of residence and a not all together flattering sort of character reference. :D
He was a butcher.
Sue
http://www.naa.gov.au

You mean the "lacks attention to detail and cannot memorise work" bit?

 ;D

- Belinda.
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 08 December 07 21:21 GMT (UK)
Yes, That bit.

I couldn't help smiling.  It really isn't fair is it, when they are no longer around to stick up for themselves.

It's not viscious, just a statement.

As a teacher in this day and age, if we wrote a report on a student in that tone, we would be hauled over  the coals.
Non -judgemental political corrrectness at all times now.
It would read.

"Is still working towards gaining focus on detail.  Needs support to commit material to memory"

 ;)

Sue
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Sunday 09 December 07 01:02 GMT (UK)
Yes, That bit.
I couldn't help smiling.  It really isn't fair is it, when they are no longer around to stick up for themselves.
It's not viscious, just a statement.
As a teacher in this day and age, if we wrote a report on a student in that tone, we would be hauled over  the coals.
Non -judgemental political corrrectness at all times now.
It would read.

"Is still working towards gaining focus on detail.  Needs support to commit material to memory"

 ;)

Sue

 ;D ;D ;D

Yes I agree. It' very hard for me though, I love my history and I think those records are a fantastic resource and yet the people they concern aren't here to consent to them being there for all the world to see, and in the grand scheme of things WW1 wasn't so long ago ... and I have at least two of my family members who have "delicate" medical complaints in their records too.

- Belinda.
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: tropicalj on Sunday 09 December 07 03:54 GMT (UK)
Hello  there

Sue  "Bah and Humbug"  to  this  PC  some of  the parents  wouldn't understand  what  the comment  meant :D

Belinda
Quote
and yet the people they concern aren't here to consent to them being there for all the world to see, and in the grand scheme of things WW1 wasn't so long ago ... and I have at least two of my family members who have "delicate" medical complaints in their records too.


The  census  records  in  England  contain  information  ie  what their occupation  was  that some folk  would  not  like being  told about them  100 years  on.  I  have one elderly friend who  I  have been helping with her history  and she told me the  family  were timber merchants and well to do  I  found  out they were  Sugar Beet workers before they emmigrated to Oz.  I  must admit  till  them  I  didn't even  know  you  got sugar from a beet   where I  come From  Cane fields abound.

I discovered from  the NAA  site that my gf had VD a bit of a shock etc (he wasn't on  his  own  there]  but  it does tell the tale of  their  lives during  that  period  that we cannot change and  it does give  such  wonderfull  insight as to  what our forebearers were really  like  as opposed to  what  family details are past on ,  often  lies and BS

I  personally  would  hate to see tthe NAA take  the records away.  Genealogists benifit from  them  warts and all.

kind regards Jenn
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 09 December 07 04:36 GMT (UK)
Ah Yes Jenn,
With the school reporting we have, in many cases, come to the point where it probably is not terribly important that the parent understands the significance of a statement or not.
  As long as "respect is shown for the sensitivities of students with areas of shortfall or difference"
[And I am not kidding}

I too have discovered people's grandfathers with Ghn. and the Syph. abbreviations in thir records and the minute details of the tests and treatments.

As you say the freebmd records and our own bmd records immediately throw up "wrong side of the sheets" births and bigamous marriages  for all to see in a very public domain and up to a quite recent date too.  Not much different really.

One just has to be pragmatic.  After all, in the  modern idiom "Stuff happens"
Sue
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: tropicalj on Sunday 09 December 07 04:39 GMT (UK)
Quote
After all, in the  modern idiom "Stuff happens"

No pun  intended here Sue  ?   ::)

kind regards Jenn (9 from a  typically  warm and  humid day  in  the  north of OZ) 8)
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Sunday 09 December 07 05:22 GMT (UK)
I discovered from  the NAA  site that my gf had VD a bit of a shock etc (he wasn't on  his  own  there]  but  it does tell the tale of  their  lives during  that  period  that we cannot change and  it does give  such  wonderfull  insight as to  what our forebearers were really  like  as opposed to  what  family details are past on ,  often  lies and BS
I  personally  would  hate to see tthe NAA take  the records away.  Genealogists benifit from  them  warts and all.
kind regards Jenn

oh yes, I definately agree with that.
From the NAA I found out my g grandfather got VD in Egypt. I never knew him so it didn't bother me in the slightest, in fact I was more amused than anything ... no doubt his daughter wouldn't have been impressed though!

- Belinda.
Title: The NAA Website
Post by: glynishalliday on Monday 10 December 07 10:15 GMT (UK)
Thanks so much for mentioning the NAA website on this thread! I have just spent the past few hours looking for rellies and have found heaps of info! Awesome!

By the way, I also just found out a rellie (not a grandfather) also contracted VD in Egypt! Must've been quite a pestilence!

I doubt that his mother (a good Christian lady!) would've been impressed with that diagnosis either. Sadly, the man in question actually was killed in action the following year.

Bye for now,
Glynis Halliday, Western Australia
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Monday 10 December 07 11:27 GMT (UK)
Glynis, you might enjoy this link.

http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-nurses/venereal.htm

 ;)

- Belinda.
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 10 December 07 11:37 GMT (UK)


My own sister  works   in  the Sexually Ttransmitted  disease section  of Qld Health  and  unfortunately  the  problem  is still prevalent  with  newer disease  such as Aids and clamida.   She is  allways lamenting the lack of folk  wearing of condoms to avoid such things.

It is very common  to see on the War records such  things.  When  I started  the search for  my grandfather ( a man  my  father never knew)  I was quite shocked  at  what  I  found,  but then realised  just  how common  it  was.  It  is easy to be judgemental and tut tut  but  these were  quite often young  men ( in  my  instance  only 17 ) faced with the horrors of war  and seeking a  little  pyhsical comfort.  Unfortunately  the women were often  not to carefull and lets face it  victims of war in  their own way.

regards Jenn
Title: STD's!
Post by: glynishalliday on Monday 10 December 07 12:10 GMT (UK)
Just looked at the website Belinda! Interesting and informative but gross nevertheless!

I see that these diseases were rife in the armed forces, as you would expect I guess.

Catch you around,
Glynis
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 11 December 07 21:44 GMT (UK)
Hi All,

Jenn, isn't interesting that in the documents in the  link provided by Belinda, there is totaly no mention of 'protection' only abstinence.  It was all so morality -based.  People today would just ignore advice given in that tone.  Such different days.

glynnis, One can be certain that the mother would never have seen the records you have seen. We are very priveliged to have such access and these glimpses certainly serve to make the whole era  more real and human.
Sue
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: Bellejazz on Wednesday 12 December 07 02:11 GMT (UK)
Hi All,
Jenn, isn't interesting that in the documents in the  link provided by Belinda, there is totaly no mention of 'protection' only abstinence.  It was all so morality -based.  People today would just ignore advice given in that tone.  Such different days.

What I found interesting/amusing/annoying ( ;D) was all the stuff about the "loose" and "immoral" women.

 ::)  ;D

- Belinda.
Title: Re: NSW/VIC lookup please
Post by: sparrett on Wednesday 12 December 07 02:22 GMT (UK)
Yes,  Loose women :o

 It strikes us out of keeping with modern thinking and womens' different position and status now doesn't it.

There seemed to be nothing immoral about the man taking what was offered. That was just very unhealthy and dangerous.
The immorality it seemed lay solely with the women who offered what was very obviously sought after.

Sue
 
Title: VD in the wars
Post by: glynishalliday on Wednesday 12 December 07 04:02 GMT (UK)
You're prob right Sue, I guess that the mother of the soldier, wouldn't have seen the records, which we are now
'privileged' to see these days. And online what's more!

I agree, where was the 'sin' of the man? Doesn't seem right that those women were referred to as 'loose', whereas the men enjoyed taking what was 'rightfully' theirs, but of course often suffered the consequences, with STD's! Mind you, those 'loose' women often didn't have many options open to them, with no other form of financial means at the time. I guess there were always those that did have a choice, but then they made their choice, be it bad or good! :-\

Anyway, enough of that depressing subject!

Hope everyone is having a good day!

Cheers, Glynis
Happy Christmas to all on the site, if I don't get to say that next week! :)