RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Bellejazz on Saturday 08 December 07 05:33 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find a death for Mary Anne Gibbs who married Thomas Winnel/Winnell in 1899 in Wagga Wagga.
There are several possible births for her so at this stage I am unsure who her parents are.
These are the possible births:
16811/1872 GIBBS MARY ANN FREDERICK MARY RICHMOND
16822/1872 GIBBS MARY ANN GEORGE JANE RICHMOND
2151/1873 GIBBS MARY A E JOHN WILLIAM ANNIE SYDNEY
There is another Mary:
3719/1879 GIBBS MARY JOHN WILLIAM ANN SYDNEY
which is almost identical to the one above for John William and Annie. I have seen a number of cases now where children are named after older siblings which have died so I'm wondering if that has happened here which would discount the 3rd Mary, narrowing the Mary I am looking for down to the first two.
To make it even more interesting Thomas's brother Samuel Joseph, married Ethel A Gibbs in 1902.
At first I though maybe 2 sisters had married 2 brothers but when I searched for a birth for Ethel Gibbs this is all I found:
27810/1886 GIBBS ETHEL A EDWARD N ELIZABETH MCC WAGGA WAGGA
So perhaps rather than sisters the girls were cousins?
Thomas died in 1924, perhaps Mary remarried?
At least one of the children went to Victoria, maybe Mary followed him there?
Also, while we are on this family, can anyone find any other children for Thomas and Mary?
So far I have found:
Grace, b 1900, ?
Thomas R, b 1903, Wagga Wagga
Ena, b 1906, Murrumburrah
Joseph Norman, b 1914, Leeton NSW
Any help would be much appreciated :)
thanks,
Belinda.
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Hello there Belinda
a death in Victoria for you
MARY ANN WINNELL Died in 1968 aged 88 at Oaklands reg no 22481
father Edmund Gibbs mother Ann McCrudden
will look around for her birth
regards JEnn
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ok
that's interesting!
thanks Jenn.
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Jenn that tip was all the info I needed to find this:
26575/1884 GIBBS ELIZABETH M EDMOND NORMAN ELIZABETH WAGGA WAGGA
35357/1891 GIBBS WALTER N EDMUND ELIZABETH WAGGA WAGGA
8642/1880 GIBBS MARY A EDMUND ELIZABETH ALBURY
36120/1893 GIBBS LANGLEY V EDMUND N ELIZABETH WAGGA WAGGA
7398/1878 GIBBS CHARLES A EDMUND N ELIZABETH ALBURY
21350/1876 GIBBS HENRY EDMUND EDMUND NORMAN ELIZABETH WAGGA WAGGA
27927/1889 GIBBS EDMUND L J EDMUND W ELIZABETH WAGGA WAGGA
27810/1886 GIBBS ETHEL A EDWARD N ELIZABETH MCC WAGGA WAGGA
Looks like I was right about 2 sisters marrying 2 brothers!
thanks
Belinda.
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oops, missed one
36210/1897 GIBBS HAROLD T EDMUND N ELIZABETH WAGGA WAGGA
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Marriage:
4038/1874 GIBBS EDWARD MACRUDDEN ELIZABETH WAGGA WAGGA
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All the spelling mistakes on the registries sure complicate things for us family history researchers ::)
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I wonder if this is his birth:
V18513152 37A/1851 GIBBS EDWARD CHARLES LYDIA
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Yes Belinda spelling errors are the bane of any genealogist.
Not only could the register make mistakes but often the informant wasn't aware of the correct spelling.
Glad you have now sorted this out.
kind regards Jenn
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Thanks for your help Jenn
:)
- Belinda.
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I am still looking for any other children of Thomas and Mary Winnel/Winnell
So far I have found:
Grace, b 1900, ?
Thomas R, b 1903, Wagga Wagga
Ena, b 1906, Murrumburrah
Joseph Norman, b 1914, Leeton NSW
Any takers?
:)
- Belinda.
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as the index only go online to 1906 you will have to wait for someone with the next set.
you will see at the top of the board a listing from OZZYBOB who has this particular index and is willing to do lookup
regards Jenn
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,164646.0.html
this is the thread
regards jenn
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Hi,
Well now you must have a look at the National Archives for the ww2 service history for your Joseph Norman Neil Winnell.
You will find in the digitised version his wife's full name, date of the marriage, place of residence and a not all together flattering sort of character reference. :D
He was a butcher.
Sue
http://www.naa.gov.au
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Hi,
Well now you must have a look at the National Archives for the ww2 service history for your Joseph Norman Neil Winnell.
You will find in the digitised version his wife's full name, date of the marriage, place of residence and a not all together flattering sort of character reference. :D
He was a butcher.
Sue
http://www.naa.gov.au
You mean the "lacks attention to detail and cannot memorise work" bit?
;D
- Belinda.
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Yes, That bit.
I couldn't help smiling. It really isn't fair is it, when they are no longer around to stick up for themselves.
It's not viscious, just a statement.
As a teacher in this day and age, if we wrote a report on a student in that tone, we would be hauled over the coals.
Non -judgemental political corrrectness at all times now.
It would read.
"Is still working towards gaining focus on detail. Needs support to commit material to memory"
;)
Sue
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Yes, That bit.
I couldn't help smiling. It really isn't fair is it, when they are no longer around to stick up for themselves.
It's not viscious, just a statement.
As a teacher in this day and age, if we wrote a report on a student in that tone, we would be hauled over the coals.
Non -judgemental political corrrectness at all times now.
It would read.
"Is still working towards gaining focus on detail. Needs support to commit material to memory"
;)
Sue
;D ;D ;D
Yes I agree. It' very hard for me though, I love my history and I think those records are a fantastic resource and yet the people they concern aren't here to consent to them being there for all the world to see, and in the grand scheme of things WW1 wasn't so long ago ... and I have at least two of my family members who have "delicate" medical complaints in their records too.
- Belinda.
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Hello there
Sue "Bah and Humbug" to this PC some of the parents wouldn't understand what the comment meant :D
Belinda
and yet the people they concern aren't here to consent to them being there for all the world to see, and in the grand scheme of things WW1 wasn't so long ago ... and I have at least two of my family members who have "delicate" medical complaints in their records too.
The census records in England contain information ie what their occupation was that some folk would not like being told about them 100 years on. I have one elderly friend who I have been helping with her history and she told me the family were timber merchants and well to do I found out they were Sugar Beet workers before they emmigrated to Oz. I must admit till them I didn't even know you got sugar from a beet where I come From Cane fields abound.
I discovered from the NAA site that my gf had VD a bit of a shock etc (he wasn't on his own there] but it does tell the tale of their lives during that period that we cannot change and it does give such wonderfull insight as to what our forebearers were really like as opposed to what family details are past on , often lies and BS
I personally would hate to see tthe NAA take the records away. Genealogists benifit from them warts and all.
kind regards Jenn
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Ah Yes Jenn,
With the school reporting we have, in many cases, come to the point where it probably is not terribly important that the parent understands the significance of a statement or not.
As long as "respect is shown for the sensitivities of students with areas of shortfall or difference"
[And I am not kidding}
I too have discovered people's grandfathers with Ghn. and the Syph. abbreviations in thir records and the minute details of the tests and treatments.
As you say the freebmd records and our own bmd records immediately throw up "wrong side of the sheets" births and bigamous marriages for all to see in a very public domain and up to a quite recent date too. Not much different really.
One just has to be pragmatic. After all, in the modern idiom "Stuff happens"
Sue
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After all, in the modern idiom "Stuff happens"
No pun intended here Sue ? ::)
kind regards Jenn (9 from a typically warm and humid day in the north of OZ) 8)
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I discovered from the NAA site that my gf had VD a bit of a shock etc (he wasn't on his own there] but it does tell the tale of their lives during that period that we cannot change and it does give such wonderfull insight as to what our forebearers were really like as opposed to what family details are past on , often lies and BS
I personally would hate to see tthe NAA take the records away. Genealogists benifit from them warts and all.
kind regards Jenn
oh yes, I definately agree with that.
From the NAA I found out my g grandfather got VD in Egypt. I never knew him so it didn't bother me in the slightest, in fact I was more amused than anything ... no doubt his daughter wouldn't have been impressed though!
- Belinda.
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Thanks so much for mentioning the NAA website on this thread! I have just spent the past few hours looking for rellies and have found heaps of info! Awesome!
By the way, I also just found out a rellie (not a grandfather) also contracted VD in Egypt! Must've been quite a pestilence!
I doubt that his mother (a good Christian lady!) would've been impressed with that diagnosis either. Sadly, the man in question actually was killed in action the following year.
Bye for now,
Glynis Halliday, Western Australia
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Glynis, you might enjoy this link.
http://www.diggerhistory.info/pages-nurses/venereal.htm
;)
- Belinda.
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My own sister works in the Sexually Ttransmitted disease section of Qld Health and unfortunately the problem is still prevalent with newer disease such as Aids and clamida. She is allways lamenting the lack of folk wearing of condoms to avoid such things.
It is very common to see on the War records such things. When I started the search for my grandfather ( a man my father never knew) I was quite shocked at what I found, but then realised just how common it was. It is easy to be judgemental and tut tut but these were quite often young men ( in my instance only 17 ) faced with the horrors of war and seeking a little pyhsical comfort. Unfortunately the women were often not to carefull and lets face it victims of war in their own way.
regards Jenn
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Just looked at the website Belinda! Interesting and informative but gross nevertheless!
I see that these diseases were rife in the armed forces, as you would expect I guess.
Catch you around,
Glynis
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Hi All,
Jenn, isn't interesting that in the documents in the link provided by Belinda, there is totaly no mention of 'protection' only abstinence. It was all so morality -based. People today would just ignore advice given in that tone. Such different days.
glynnis, One can be certain that the mother would never have seen the records you have seen. We are very priveliged to have such access and these glimpses certainly serve to make the whole era more real and human.
Sue
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Hi All,
Jenn, isn't interesting that in the documents in the link provided by Belinda, there is totaly no mention of 'protection' only abstinence. It was all so morality -based. People today would just ignore advice given in that tone. Such different days.
What I found interesting/amusing/annoying ( ;D) was all the stuff about the "loose" and "immoral" women.
::) ;D
- Belinda.
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Yes, Loose women :o
It strikes us out of keeping with modern thinking and womens' different position and status now doesn't it.
There seemed to be nothing immoral about the man taking what was offered. That was just very unhealthy and dangerous.
The immorality it seemed lay solely with the women who offered what was very obviously sought after.
Sue
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You're prob right Sue, I guess that the mother of the soldier, wouldn't have seen the records, which we are now
'privileged' to see these days. And online what's more!
I agree, where was the 'sin' of the man? Doesn't seem right that those women were referred to as 'loose', whereas the men enjoyed taking what was 'rightfully' theirs, but of course often suffered the consequences, with STD's! Mind you, those 'loose' women often didn't have many options open to them, with no other form of financial means at the time. I guess there were always those that did have a choice, but then they made their choice, be it bad or good! :-\
Anyway, enough of that depressing subject!
Hope everyone is having a good day!
Cheers, Glynis
Happy Christmas to all on the site, if I don't get to say that next week! :)