RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: eveder on Friday 07 December 07 19:51 GMT (UK)
-
Please can anyone help?
have just come across this info. John Peter SMITh was a bro. of my Gt Grandfather. They were sons of Job SMITH & Elizabeth EAGLE.
On the 1851 [UK] census he is shown as :- J. Smith unmarried 19
i.e. Born 1831/2. at St Andrews Holborn Commercial Trav. Millinery
By the 1861 census he had disappeared.
But he turns up with a son John Edward SMITH born 1861 Melbourne Victoria and a wife Emma Beattie. John Peter died 19th June 11900 South Yarro.Victoria.
Is it possible to find out When & How he arrived in Australia? And for that matter anything else. Eveder
-
Hi Eveder
The Victorian death certificates are very informative. Youcould purchase a certificate on line and download immediately for AUD$17.50.
http://online.justice.vic.gov.au/servlet/bdm_home
The time in Australia is noted on the death certificate - if the informant had the information. You will need the Registration No and Year of death -
Death
SMITH John Peter
Father Smith Job Mother Elizabeth EAGLE
Age 68
Death Place South Yarra Year 1900 Reg. No 7145
You could search on
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=23
for Unassisted Emigrants or
http://proarchives.imagineering.com.au/index_search.asp?searchid=24
for Assisted Emigrants
but identifying your John SMITH on the index may prove a bit difficult ;)
I also found the following
Marriage
SMITH John Peter = BEATTIE Emma
1862 Reg No 2264
Births
SMITH John Edward
Father John Peter Mother Emma BEATTIE
Birth Place MELBOURNE Year: 1861 Reg No 12348
SMITH Florence Mary
Father John Peter Mother Emma BEATTIE
Birth Place Prahran Year1863 Reg No 3652
SMITH William
Father John Peter Mother Emma BEATTIE
Birth Place Prahran Year 1864 Reg No 24126
SMITH George
Father John Peter Mother Emma BEATTIE
Birth Place Prahran Year 1866 Reg No 23429
SMITH Charles Henry
Father John Peter Mother Emma BEATTIE
Birth Place Prahran Year 1868 Reg No 4780
SMITH Thomas Frederick
Father John Peter MotherEmma BEATTIE
Birth Place Prahran Year 1869 Reg No 17953
SMITH Edward
Father John Peter Mother Emma BEATTIE
Birth Place Prahran Year 1872 Reg No 4725
SMITH Francis Bertram
Father John Peter Mother Emma BEATTIE
Birth Place Prahran Year 1873 Reg No 19132
Cheers
cando
-
It looks like Emma arrived as an assisted emigrant in 1860
BEATTIE EMMA 20 MAY 1860 ATALANTA 13A 68
and this one could be a possiblity [born 1832]
SMITH JOHN 28 NOV 1860 EMPRESS OF THE SEA B 183 005
And a little more - this could be him - chn born in Prahran and he died in South Yarra.
Melbourne Directory 1865 [Sands & McDougall]
SMITH J P Commercial Road Prahran
Melbourne Directory 1884 [Sands & McDougall]
SMITH John P 10 Osborne Street, South Yarra
Melbourne Directory 1892 [Sands & McDougall]
SMITH John P 64 Osborne Street, South Yarra
Cando
Edit - shipping info
-
Good finding Cando.
there might be afew John Smiths out there, but you've nailed him.
I wonder whether he had a lovely little hat shop in Chapel Street or Commercial Road.
This was one of early Melbourne's areas which grew quickly as a shopping and commerce region, as early as the 50's on the back of the gold findings in Victoria. The Prahran market in Commercial Rd. opened there in the early 80's but there had been centralised shoppping and bartering in the area decades before then.
Sue
-
Now some deaths
SMITH Florence Mary
Father John Peter Mother Emma BEATTIE
Age: 3 Birth Place Prahran
Death Place Not noted
Year 1866 Reg No 11633
SMITH John Edward
Father John Peter Mother Emma BEATTIE
Age 5 Birth Place Carlton
Death Place Not noted
Year 1866 Reg No 8885
SMITH George
Father John Peter Mother Emma BEATTIE
Age 5 Months Birth Place Prahran
Death Place Not noted
Year 1867 Reg No 3229
SMITH Francis Bertram
Father John Peter Mother: Emma BEATTIE
Age 8 Months Birth Place Prahran
Death Place Not noted
Year1874 Reg No 2707
SMITH Edward
Father John Peter Mother Emma BEATTIE
Age 2 Birth Place Prahran
Death Place Not noted
Year 1874 Reg No 2715
SMITH Charles Henry
Father John Peter Mother Emma BEATTIE
Age: 16
Death Place Unknown
Year 1883 Reg No 12710
I noticed a death with parents John Peter SMITH and Maria SCHULTZ at South Yarra and found the following marriage - could be a 2nd marriage for John
SMITH John Peter Birth Place LONDON
SCHULZ Maria Birth Place GEELONG
Year 1881 Reg No 2651
just may be Emma's death - closest name to BEATTIE I could see
SMITH Emma
Father Neat Unknown Mother Unknown UNKNOWN
Age 42
Birth Place Londo Death Place Not noted
Year 1878 Reg No 1123
Edit. I doubt if this registration is Emma BEATTIE - Emma's emigration record states she was 20 years of age in 1860 ie b. 1840
Will look for some births to this second marriage - post getting a little long ;)
cando
-
Thank you Sue - fortunately Emma's surname has been a help. I thought along the same lines about his occupation.
Now for some births to what I think may be his 2nd marriage
SMITH Robert
Father John Peter Mother Maria SCHULTZ
Birth Place Melbourne
Year1882 Reg No 19185
SMITH Richard Henry
Father John Peter Mother Maria SCHULTZE
Birth Place Melbourne
Year 1884 Reg No 20616
SMITH Ethel Mary
Father John Peter Mother Maria SCHULTZE
Birth Place Melbourne
Year1886
Reg No 29725
SMITH Elsie May
Father John Peter Mother Maria SCHULTZ
Birth Place South Yarra
Year 1888 Reg No 33473
and death
SMITH Alice
Father John Peter Mother Maria SCHULTZ
Age 23 Months
Death Place South Yarra
Year 1881 Reg No 2908R
her birth registered under SCHULTZE
SCHULZE Alice Mary
Father: U Mother Maria SCHULZE
Birth Place Melbourne
Year 1879 Reg No 5607
and another birth registered with mother Maria
SHULZE Adelaide Florence
Father Unknown Mother Maria Elizabeth SHULZE
Birth Place Carlton
Year 1877 Reg No: 1267
Adelaide's death reg names John Peter SMITH as her father.
Cheers
cando
-
hello there
death
MARIA SMITH in 1925 died aged 67 at Pran reg no 6977
father Julius Schulze mother Adelaide Blackmore
birth for
Maria Elizabeth Schulze in 1858 at Conewarre reg no 2843
father Julius Schulze mother Adelaide Blackmore.
parents marriage was in 1856 reg no 3920
now some deaths for some of the second marriage children of Maria (eliz) Schultz
Edward Smith died 1949 aged 70 at Mel reg no 2931 (but cannot find a birth to match with him in 1877c)
Irene Beatrice Smith ded in 1949 aged 51 at Wsor reg no 11641
Elsie May Roberts died in 1933 aged 44 at East Malvern reg no 3830
regards Jenn
-
Greetings cando, sparrett and tropicalj
that's fantastic the speed of reply was such that it's as though you were sitting waiting for the question. You weren't were you? Your help is even now on it's way to other family members [who didn't know about www.RootsChat.com] in Canada and New Zealand. It is going to take a little time to sort it all out but for now THANK YOU VERY MUCH ..........................eveder
-
Dear All
I am the Canadian Smith relation. All of this information on the Australian leg of the family is fantastic. I have posted questions to this site before about other surnames in my family and have never received such a response. I always assumed finding a "Smith" would be worse than finding a needle in a haystack.
Thank you
-
Hello there
Anne S
glad to have been of some help to you. If you have anyone else you want checking on just ask away
kind regards Jenn
-
Think I am going to invent a new cliche for family historians
"Worse than finding Smith in a census'
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Sue
-
Aaaaah I am tearing my hair out - I just finished a long informative post and then it disappeared into goodness knows where. Never ever had that happen before. Blast. Well here goes again.
I cannot find Emma BEATTIE's death reg. I have checked every Emma SMITH on the index between 1873 [birth of Frances Bertram] and 1881 - marriage of John Peter with Maria Elizabeth SCHULTZE. I have checked the Divorce Index - nil.
Frances Bertram b. 1873 and Edward b. 1872 both died in 1874. Then we have the births of two children to Maria SCHULZE [fathers unknown] in 1877 of Adelaide Florence [John Peter SMITH was named as father on death reg] and in 1879 of Alice Mary Mary and now in 1880
BIRTH
SCHULZE Edward Richard
Father Unknown
Mother Maria SCHULZE
Place SOUTH YARRA
Year 1880 Reg No 25281
From Jen
Edward Smith died 1949 aged 70 at Mel reg no 2931 (but cannot find a birth to match with him in 1877c)
This Edward born either 1879 or 1880.
Marriage
SMITH Edward Richard
SARGEANT Dorothy
Year 1934 Reg No 6714
Marriage
SMITH Elsie May b. South Yarra
ROBERTS Charles Eldren b. New South Wales
Year 1909 Reg No 615
I can see no children to 1920 - limit of birth indexes.
Death Certificates in Victoria are very informative. If you wished to pursue descendants I would suggest downloading the death certificates of both Edward and Elsie - it would give the names of their children if known to the informant at time of death.
Reply 24 on the following link detailed by Jen will give you info available on the Victorian birth, death and marriage certificates
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,240631.0.html
Cheers
cando
-
Hi Cando,
Have to say I have often suffered from the diappearing reply.
Seems usually when you just pop off for a second to check something on a different site or such.
I discovered these 2 things which occasionally, but not always help. You should know, I am not technical, just desperate and annoyed like you.
Whenever you go anywhere away from the reply you're part way through, minimize it so it is a little window on the bottom of your screen and you can click on it and bring it back. You can then ramble about and it won't go anywhere, just wait for you.
Also, the reply window on rootschat does not have a button for "undo last" like on ordinary email. [Well not that I,ve located at least]
When a paragraph you've just finished disappears as seems to happen to me a lot you have to use the keyboard shortcut for undo last" which is ctrl+z. When you do that, it pops back again.
Anyhow, don't know if that's of any use. :)
Sue
-
Thank you for your suggestions Sue, however I pressed "Post" and then nothing and when I clicked on back [left arrow] nothing. I just swore :-[ :-[ and started all over again.
I will try ctrl+z next time. Thanks for pointing that out to me.
Cheers
cando
-
Hi all,
with regard to John Peter Smith (son of Job Smith and Elizabeth Eagle) who died in 1900 in South Yarra in Victoria Australia, I can tell you that he married Maria Elizabeth Schultze (sometimes spelled Schulze) in the early 1880s - he was 49 and she was 23. They had a number of children, one of whom was Robert (Graham - he referred to himself with this middle name but it was not on his birth entry) Smith, who was my great grandfather.
I dont know how he came to Australia, but he was listed in his marriage entry to Beattie and to Schultze as a 'traveller' as well as on the birth entry for many of his children. Later in his life he was listed as an excise inspector, and he died of cancer of the oesophagus.
I have (pdf) marriage and birth entries from the Victorian births, deaths and marriages site. I would be quite happy to send them to anyone wanting copies.
If anyone has info on what John Peter's parents were and who his ancestors were then I would love to hear from you.
Moscowman
-
Hello there, moscowman
Was your Robert [Graham] SMITH b.1852 Melbourne OZ ?
The John Peter SMITH son of John[Job] SMITH & Elizabeth Eagle was b. 1832 at
St Andrews Holborn Middx. England find family in 1841/51 Census 30 March 1851
St Pancras Middx.HO107 piece 1495 Folio 83 Page 65.
If you read back from your correspondence of 13 December 2008 you will find more info. Do you know Trevor SMITH in NZ. or Anne Shipley in Canada also related?
Lots more info. to unfold but not sure of J. P.SMITH of 1852
eveder
-
Hi there, Eveder,
No Robert (Graham) Smith was born in 1882 and died in 1966. John Peter Smith had his children with Maria Schultze (Schulze) after the late 1870s. He had some out of wedlock with her. This could have been while he was still married to his first wife Emma Beattie (I dont know). He is buried in St Kilda cemetery in Melbourne with Maria Smith (nee Schultze) and some of their children who are buried under the names Smith and also Schultze (which leads me to the view these may actually be his). As far as I know nobody in the Melbourne end of things (I am in Moscow Russia, but come from Melbourne) knows anything about relatives in New Zealand or Canada. This is because Robert Graham Smith was pretty much incommunicado with his family. He left his (first) wife during WW1 and then came home with another english wife.
Would love to get in contact with you if you have more info on John Peter Smith
Cheers
Moscowman
-
If its any use to anyone I have a jpeg of John Peter Smith's death entry in Victorian records and will quite happily email it to anyone who wants it.
Moscowman