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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 12:46 GMT (UK)

Title: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 12:46 GMT (UK)
could some one tell me how to find out what agnes browns maiden name was ,i am in contact with some one else who is researching the same people and we both have differant names for her  ::)thomas and agnes married on the 17 dec 1841 at carluke ,lanark
thank you
donna
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 12:49 GMT (UK)
The Scotlands People site record has her as Agnes Brown  :)

Gadget
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 12:53 GMT (UK)
now see i knew i got it wrong when i wrote that ::)i am looking for her mothers maiden name  her father was james brown and her mother agnes ,but i dont know what her mothers maiden name was
sorry gadget for wasting your time
donna
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 12:54 GMT (UK)
so we'll go look for her mother then  :)

Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 12:58 GMT (UK)
yes gadget that would be a better idea :)
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 13:02 GMT (UK)
I see from the 1851 that she was born circa 1822, Carluke

she's still alive in 1861 and 1871 (as a widow?)  - trying to find an approx death date

Having no luck on the 1881 - so a poss range  :)
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 13:08 GMT (UK)
Ah

Interestingly, she seems to appear again in 1891 in Midlothian  :-\

33 Logganlea Rows, West Calder

RD 701 ED 8 page 23

Agnes Paton, 68, b. Carluke
Mary Carruthers, grd daughter, 17, dressmaker, b. Carluke
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 13:11 GMT (UK)
thats thomas patons wife,im looking for her mother, have i got you confused  ::)
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 13:17 GMT (UK)
Yes - but her death cert  will give you her mother. The IGI only has a patron submission for an Agnes Frame  ::)

5 April 1823, Carluke - can't see it on SP

PS - not confused but....


I see from the 1851 that she was born circa 1822, Carluke

she's still alive in 1861 and 1871 (as a widow?)  - trying to find an approx death date

Having no luck on the 1881 - so a poss range  :)
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 13:20 GMT (UK)
Donna

There are quite a few patron submissions (thus non-verified) on the IGI but I can't see one on the SP site.

Do you know when she died?

Gadget
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 13:21 GMT (UK)
thats the name the other lady has for her ,on the death cert it looks a bit like whitefield,and for some reason i have wilson ::) i dont know where i got that ,i have been trying to find my source for it  :-\
donna

yes agnes paton died 4 mar 1894 at west calder
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 13:23 GMT (UK)
It would have been easier to have known that you had a death cert and the possibilities at the beginning.

Who was the informant on the cert ?

Gadget
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 13:26 GMT (UK)
sorry
john paton, son
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 13:28 GMT (UK)
Yes. I've just seen. It certainly looks like Whitefield to me.

Have you tried looking for  a marriage or any other children's baptisms  for James and Agnes Brown?

Gadget
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 13:35 GMT (UK)
i have but i cant find any with whitefield as the mother ,
donna
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 13:39 GMT (UK)
neither can I - nor a marriage.

If you could find some siblings, you might be able to check on them. or have you tried to find a James Paton and Agnes on the 1841 (Freecen) . James is down as a farmer on the death cert.

Sorry, I have to go now. I have work to do.

Gadget  :)
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 13:55 GMT (UK)
thanks for all your time, sorry for not being too clear  :-[
donna
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 14:19 GMT (UK)
Donna

There is an interesting person on the 1841 in Carluke. It might be Agnes's brother:

Carluke North Back Lanes

RD 629 ED 2 Page 8

James Brown, 26, labourer,
Mary Bow (?Brown) , 24
James Brown, jnr, 7
Agness Brown, 1 month

all born Lanarkshire.


Gadget

Added - discount - mother was Isabella/Isobel
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 14:23 GMT (UK)
Also this one as possible parents:

Carluke Mareckhed

RD 629 ED 10 Page 7

James Brown, 60-64, ag lab
Agness, 60-64
Gavin, 25-29, ag lab
Mary, 20-24

all born Lanarkshire

Gadget
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 14:38 GMT (UK)
hi gadget,
i found a marriage for a james brown and agnes wilson in ayr on the 19 june 1822 ,they have an agnes born 1822,
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 14:39 GMT (UK)
Gavin Brown died on 12 April, 1887, Carluke. Aged 74. A gardener, married to Margaret Hamilton.

His Parents were - James Brown, farmer (dec) and Agnes m.s.  Frame (dec)


Gadget  :)
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 14:39 GMT (UK)
hi gadget,
i found a marriage for a james brown and agnes wilson in ayr on the 19 june 1822 ,they have an agnes born 1822,

But was this Agnes born in Carluke? Agnes was consistent with her place of birth throughout.
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 14:46 GMT (UK)
16 Nov 1805 Carluke Banns/marriages James Brown to Agnes Frame.

Gadget
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 14:49 GMT (UK)
 no she was born in ayr :(
you are doing better than me ,

thats the name that threw me when the other lady told me it , i take it some one put the wrong  name on the death cert ::)
donna
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 14:53 GMT (UK)
It looks like it Donna - wonder if her son got confused. I think the ones that I found on the 1841 are probably the best bet you have for a family and with the Gavin death as well.

I'll have a quick look for any bpts for this couple  :)

Gadget
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 14:59 GMT (UK)
im sure it happens a lot when its thechildren putting the details down , it sure does cause some work for those of us trying to find them ::)
donna
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 15:01 GMT (UK)
The ones showing for James Brown and Agnes Frame are:

1807 John
1810 Robert
1812 Gavin and Thomas
1814 William
1816 Jean
1820 Mary


All Carluke - no Agnes(s), Nancy or Ann(e)s - However, Agnes would have been the name for the third daughter (after Jean and Mary ?) but they don't seem to have a James to make it a cut and dried naming convention  :-\

Gadget
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 15:06 GMT (UK)
no that would be too easy :)
i can only thank you for all your time,i hope i havent give you too many grey hairs with all this today ;)
donna
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 15:56 GMT (UK)
I had them already, donna  ;D

My hairdresser is pretty good though!

I'm still interested in where the Whitefield came from though  :-\

Gadget  :)

added - do you have Thomas Paton's death cert and/or parents' names?
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 17:39 GMT (UK)
hi gadget,
yes thomas patons mother was jean templeton ,father was thomas, im sure you helped me with getting those too ;) he died 25 nov 1867 -carluke,and like you i wouldnt mind knowing where whitefield came from, i can only guess that the son put the wrong name down ::)
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 17:43 GMT (UK)
I'll have an investigate later, Donna

I like to find out about these little oddities that our ancestors throw up  :)

Gadget

PS - I remember the Templeton  :)
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 17:50 GMT (UK)
with this lot theres more than a few oddities  ::)im still trying to find two  others that were brought up with my father in law ,he thinks they were his half brother and sister ,i will need to go to the registrars office to find out its too up to date,so that should be interesting
donna
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 17:59 GMT (UK)
just to let you know gadget, i got a pm from miska ,she has a lot of info on this line with agnes brown with mother agnes frame, but like us she also has no idea where the whitefield comes in  ::) it will need to be a mystery for now
donna
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 18:09 GMT (UK)
I must say that my Scots lines are very interesting - do you think they went in for puzzlers  ;D

Come to think of it, some of my Welsh ones are as well.

Maybe it's genetic  :D :D :D
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 18:25 GMT (UK)
you should try the irish ones ::) thats my side ,i kind of gave up for a while,thats why the husbands side is getting so much attention,i will go back to mine ,but only when i can get over to check out the records office my self
donna
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: miska on Friday 07 December 07 23:33 GMT (UK)
Hi! Guys
just tuned in.  can tell you that daughter Agnes Brown  is on OPR under Agnes Broun birth 4 May 1823 making her one of the youngest of James Paton and Agnes Frame. Miska
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Friday 07 December 07 23:35 GMT (UK)

The third daughter

Thanks misca  :)

Gadget
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Friday 07 December 07 23:37 GMT (UK)
dont think there is any thing straight forward about this hobby (obsession) :)
donna
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: miska on Saturday 08 December 07 00:18 GMT (UK)
the 1851 census Carluke has Thomas Agnes and children also Visitor Agnes Brown age 4 months, possibily a niece? if we could trace her it could give us a definate link to the Browns. Mis
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Saturday 08 December 07 00:36 GMT (UK)
There is a James Brown bpt. Carluke, 19 Oct 1806. Father James but mother is Agnes Hamilton. I'm wondering if the minister/clerk got the surname wrong  :-\

The first one for James and Agnes Frame is John bpt. 20 Dec 1807 which gives time for a second birth.

I'll have a look for an Agnes Hamilton.

Gadget
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Saturday 08 December 07 00:44 GMT (UK)
The James looks very likely because Agnes Fram(e)'s father was John (20 Jan 1780, Hamilton). Mother Jean Lang. So John would be the second son. Jean is first daughter.

Now, theory time - if they were new to the area, maybe Agnes's place of birth got mixed up with her surname on the first child's bpt. entry.

There are no other children showing for a James Bro*n and Agnes Hamilton.

James parent's therefore likely to be James and Mary  :-\

Gadget

Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: miska on Saturday 08 December 07 01:04 GMT (UK)
Sorry Gadget I forgot I said I would stick to this thread.
Looks promising, I had seen the name Jean Lang in connection to Agnes but I think I was a wee bit stuck on looking for a Robert (2nd son as I thought).
Miska
other thread
Thomas was born in muirkirk. Jean I am Unsure, her marriage has her father as James, there seems to be three marriage entries in the names of Thomas Paton and Jean Templeton, Muirkirk 1808, Stonehouse 1808, and Lanark 1810
hope its not two different couples.
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: miska on Saturday 08 December 07 01:17 GMT (UK)
to sign off, more speculation.
If James Brown senior had a mother called Jean Hamilton perhaps thats where the confusion came in with James Junior's mother beeing named Hamilton.
Keeps the old grey cells working. Hope you both had /Have a good nights sleep I better get the breakfast dishes done, cheers Miska
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Saturday 08 December 07 09:40 GMT (UK)
Miska

I'm not surprised that this gets a little confusing  ::)  This is what you wrote on the other thread:

Gadget
since you are on a roll any chance you can find a Thomas Paton in the 1851 census.
This is the Thomas married to Jean Templeton .Born Muirkirk 1820.  I think I have him with 2 sons in Lesmahagow in 1841 but no wife.age is a bit of. This is where I lose him .( just to confuse the issue it looks like Thomas's mother was also called Jane Templeton) don't want to send you fo on a different tack but you seem to be able to track things down . cheers Miska.

and you say that there are three marriages:

there seems to be three marriage entries in the names of Thomas Paton and Jean Templeton, Muirkirk 1808, Stonehouse 1808, and Lanark 1810





Can you give be the correct dates of baptism and the correct dates of marriage please.

Gadget
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Saturday 08 December 07 13:03 GMT (UK)
i think she was meaning thomas paton born 6 june 1788 ,he married jean templeton on what we think was 1808,the two entries for 1808 look the same couple,it looks like they were proclaimed in his church then married in her church in stonehouse,the other entry under these two names is on the 9 sep 1810  :-\ sorry if i have muddied the waters again :-[ but miska wont be on at this time
donna
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: JoMC on Saturday 08 December 07 14:50 GMT (UK)
I think this was what misca wanted me to look for:

1851
21 Kirkton Street, Carluke

RD 629 ED 2 Page 32

Thomas Paton, 58, Ironstone Miner, b. Muirkirk, Ayr

Gadget
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: miska on Sunday 09 December 07 02:51 GMT (UK)
Ops! Sorry about the wrong date, thanks Donna for picking it up,also for explaining the three different dates of marriage (banns) I have not downloaded the images only taken the batch numbers from IGI, but at the moment I would like to find out if Thomas( born 1877) lived beyond 1855, so I can get his death cert.
That looks very much like him in 1851. Thanks Gadget.
 Frecen has him  in 1841 but I can’t find his wife Jean.
looking for this family in 1841 they are all over the place.Census 1841 Auchtenheath Ward Lesmahagow.
Thomas Paton-age 40 Coalminer-not born in this Parish---- FATHER-born 1788.
James Paton age 15   not born in this Parish---SON
George Paton age 10    not born in this Parish----SON
Ages seem a bit out but 1841 often rounded down the age . no sign of Jean(Mother)but they did have sons james and George.
looks like Johns family in1841 census Auchenheath ward Lesmahagow
John age 25---SON OF Thomas 
Euphemia age 25
Thomas age 4
James age 2
Jean age 0
Address: Carluke Crawford S
     PATON   Samuel   M   25   Iron M    Lanarkshire       --SON OF Thomas 
    PATON   Janet   F   25       Lanarkshire    -Janet Jones wife of Samuel   
    PATON   Thomas   M   1       Lanarkshire     
Address: Carluke Chapel Street
    PATON   William   M   20   Iron M    Lanarkshire      -SON OF Thomas 
    CLELAND   Isobella   F   20  Lanarkshire  -wife of William, -I wish all census had wifes maiden name.   
    PATON   Thos   M   20   Iron M    Lanarkshire-----SON OF Thomas  -later husband of Agnes Broun.

 my main quest here is to find  what happened to Thomas and Jean if possible.
Cheers Miska.

Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: Cauther Lassie on Wednesday 24 September 08 22:42 BST (UK)
Hello All

I don't know if this will work, but I have a bit on the Paton's who started off in Muirkirk, then Carluke/West Calder (Loganlea) and other airts.  There's 5 generations in the attached pdf report.  I have a lot of the certificates as well.

I hope this helps someone ............  chees...Meg
Title: Re: thomas paton/agnes brown
Post by: dmp1964 on Thursday 25 September 08 10:16 BST (UK)
Thank you meg for your input, i have been away from it for a while,my father is real  ill at the min so i have not been putting any time into this hobby/obsession of mine,but i will get back to it,
cheers
donna