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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Aberdeenshire => Scotland => Aberdeenshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: cavvytri on Tuesday 04 December 07 09:25 GMT (UK)
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I have been trying to find my husbands family tree, and while researching a great uncle, I found his ww1 records. Apparently while he was in the Australian Imperial Force and posted to the UK, he went awol, and got married to a lady of 19 years of age in Aberdeen. After the war, he returned to Australia, and, as far as we have been able to find out, he never told his Australian family that he had married in the UK. :o His Aberdonian wife got a solicitor to write to the NSW police missing persons department to try to find him, but so far, I dont know if she (or they) ever did.(maybe as he was living in Victoria and South Australia). I was wondering if someone could do a birth look up for around the end of ww1 to see if there was any issue of the marriage. All I have is the name of the groom...Stanley Layman SHERIFF, and the brides first names were Mary Ann. I dont know her maiden name.
A long shot I know, but all help appreciated
Thanks
Cavvytri
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Hi Cavvytri,
Details from the marriage:
11th December 1918 at Bou-Accord United Free Church, Rosemount Viaduct, Aberdeen
Stanley Layman Sheriff, farmer (gunman, Australian Field Artillery No. 3107), bachelor
Aged 24, usual residence: Nurcoung, Victoria, Australia. Presently at No. 4 ? Depot, Hurdcot, Wilts
Parents: James Sheriff, farmer, and Helen Mewilt (?)
Mary Ann Roberts, chemist's assistance, spinster.
Aged 18, usual residence: 19 Glenbervie Road, Torry, Aberdeen
Parents: John Roberts, plasterer (master), and Mary Archibald
Witnesses: Charles Johnston and Isabella M. Roberts
Unfortunately, ScotlandsPeople only has birth records up to 1906.
hume24
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:)Thankyou for the information....its a good start anyway!
This bloke seems to have been a bit of a "bad lad"---was court martialled and spent a lot of time disobeying orders etc lol.
By the way I have GILLON in my tree also from East Lothian and Midlothian.
Hugh age 36 born Dunbar on 1881 married to Elizabeth born Dirleton
children Alison, Robina,Agnes,John,James and Jane
Cavvytri
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Will send you a PM. We're related. :D
Glad the marriage information helped. I tried to find a death for Mary Ann, but given her age, it's possible she lived beyond 1956. I also tried searching for a re-marriage, but I suspect it would be under her maiden name and Roberts is a popular name. ;D
hume24
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I know that this thread is very old, but I have compiled extensive research for Stanley Layman Sheriff and am happy to share with anyone interested. I have several digital newspapers of his life, including of his marriage to Mary Ann Roberts in Aberdeen, Scotland, Nov 1918. Mary is submitting her missing person report in 1919, as he never returned to Scotland for her. By 1923, she immigrates to the US, eventually marrying again to a man named Walter Thomas Madden. He died in 1968, she in July 1979 ultimately of cancer.
I'd love any collaboration on Stanley's daughter, who only appears unnamed in a single source that I've found - a loan application as ex-military. Public Record Office Victoria; Victoria, Australia; Land Selection Files, Section 12 Closer Settlement Act 1938; Series Number: VPRS 5714.
Happy to collaborate or share what I know, I'd love any input from anyone who knows more.
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There's no record of the birth in Scotland of anyone with surname Sh*r*f* and mother's surname Roberts between 1915 and 1924.
Could there have been an illegitimate child? SP does not include the mother's maiden surname if the birth was illegitimate and registered in the mother's name. (I don't understand the logic of this, because a blank gap where the mother's maiden surname normally appears in a year when other mothers' surnames are indexed actually proclaims to the world that the child was illegitimate, making it more, not less, obvious.) There is a birth of a William John Roberts with no mother's surname in Aberdeen St Nicholas in 1918. If you think he might be the mystery baby you could have a look at that to see who the mother was. There is also a William Roberts in Logie Buchan the same year, but that's a bit out of Aberdeen.
Did she take the child with her to the USA? Have you found her and her new husband in the 1930/1940/1950 US census?
Bou-Accord United Free Church
That is Bon-Accord, not Bou-accord.
Unfortunately, ScotlandsPeople only has birth records up to 1906.
Scotland's People has birth records up to last month. You can only view online birth records over 100 years ago, marriages over 75 years ago and deaths over 50 years ago, which is why you couldn't see births after 1906 18 years ago.
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Stanley was the son of Jessie SHER(R)IFF before she married to Albert Joseph BROOKSBY. Apparently he was raised as the son of his grandparents, James SHERIFF and Ellen MEWETT
Record information
Event: births
Registration number 33993 / 1893
Family name: SHERIFF
Given name(s) Stanley
Place of event: NATI, Australia
Personal detail
Mother's name Jessie
Mother's family name at birth SHERIFF
Father's Name: <Unknown Family Name>, Unknown
Record information
Event: deaths
Registration number 8018 / 1968
Family name: SHERRIFF
Given name(s) Stanley Lehmann
Place of event: Horsham, Australia
Personal detail
Mother's name Ellen
Mother's family name at birth MEWETT
Father's Name: SHERRIFF James
Could this girl be their daughter?
Surname Forename Mother's Maiden Name Gender Year Ref RD Name
SHERIFF ELIZABETH B FAI F 1919 685 / 4 / 1676 St Giles
And, apparently, his grandfather was Scotish.
James Sheriff
Birth • Scotland, Presbyterian & Protestant Church Records, 1736-1990
James Sheriff person details
Name James Sheriff
Birth Date
5 December 1846
Father's Name Charles Sheriff
Mother's Name Mary Williams
Event Type Baptism
Event Date 1846
Event Place Scotland, United Kingdom
Marriage:
SHERIFF
CHARLES
MARY WILLIAMS/
12/06/1840
274
20 / 277
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I am amazed at the responses; I just joined the community but did not expect such help.
On 30 June 1921, Stanley is applying for land for farming. He identifies as a Widower, as being 27 years old, and as having one dependent, a "daughter (1 yr 8 mos)".
The only woman I know of in Stanley's life is Mary Ann Roberts, whom he married in Aberdeen in Nov 1918. At some point in 1919, she's filing a missing persons report, "They were supposed to be going to Australia, but he has put it off, and now she doubts his background and wants it checked."
She immigrates with her family in Oct 1923. If the baby in question were hers, she would have been born in the interim, then surrendered to Stanley for him to take back to Australia. It's possible, but seems improbable. In that rare case, I can almost imagine Stanley just reporting his wife as dead for the sake of simplicity. I'm grateful for the group verifying no Scottish female birth records support that hypothesis.
The other (now more likely) option is that the daughter is the offspring of Stanley and some other woman, potentially an Australian.
To the question of Mary Ann Roberts in the USA, she is with her Father and brother in Des Moines, Polk, Iowa, USA in the Iowa 1925 Census, still identifying as Mary Sheriff. By 1930 US Census, she appears as Mary A Roberts, with mom and dad. By 1940 she has married again, US Naturalization process in Sep 1943.
Stanley records I've found just indicate he struggled in farming and dealt with bankruptcy court in 1931. Eventually probate of his will granted things to a Malcolm Thomas Brooksby (half-brother). No daughter is mentioned.
I've looked for the daughter but haven't found her. Approx. DOB per the land doc would be Oct 1919.
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Oh I was going to post this one... ;D
SHERRIFFS
MARY ANN
F
1919
249 / A / 18
Udny
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Could be - but why so far out of the city?
There are six indexed births of Roberts with mother's maiden surname (mmn) Archibald, all in the city of Aberdeen, the last one being Mary Ann in 1900.
1901 census has John Roberts, 49; Mary, 42; John, 18; Bella, 16; James, 8; Frank, 6; Mary A, 1. I note that Francis' mother's surname is not listed in his entry in the births index, so I checked and it looks as if 1894 is one of the years when the mmn has yet to be indexed.
So I checked again in the index for births in 1918-1919, and there are three female births of Sh*r*f* with no mmn in or very near Aberdeen City:
Helen, 1918, St Nicholas, no 78
Ann Omond, 1919, Woodside, no 10
Elizabeth M Agn, 1919, Dyce, no 26
BTW St Giles Registration District is in Edinburgh.
If Stanley's daughter was aged 1 year and 8 months on 30 June 1921, she would have been born around October 1919.
Now, births are numbered in order of registration, starting with no 1 at the beginning of January each year.
There were 1220 births registered in St Nicholas in 1918. That's an average of 102 per month, so Helen would have been born in about January 1918. Her birth is also registered as Helen Cow, which means she was the illegitimate daughter of someone named Shirreffs and someone name Cow. I'd have to pay for the certificate to know which was her father and which her mother, but as she is obviously not the daughter of Mary Ann Roberts it's not worth it.
By similar logic both Elizabeth M Agn would have been born in about October 1919, and Ann Omond in January 1919. I took a look at Elizabeth's birth certificate and it's not her.
Mary Ann Sheriffs who was born in Udny is no 18 of 33 births registered in Udny in 1919, so she was probably born about July 1919.
Mary A R Sherriffs, 21, is in the 1921 census in Aberdeen St Machar, but she's not your Mary Ann Roberts because in the same household are Peter, 26 and John S R, 0. This child is John Skea Rendall Shirreffs, born 1920, mmn not in index. Peter Shirreffs married Mary Ann Rendall in 1919.
So I am still stumped to know who Stanley's daughter was. I may have missed something, of course.
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The Local Land Board document from 30 June 1921 is Stanley applying for Land in Horsham, Victoria, Australia. It seems a good possibility that he never returned to Aberdeen at all, and instead had some other relationship in AU, potentially where mom died, leaving him with a daughter.
I don't have any documentation that he ever returned to Scotland after marrying Mary Ann during military furlough. I think you've helped me confirm that there was no daughter of the union of Stanley and Mary Ann born in that window. That's been very helpful.
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Here are the images of the Land Loan doc that mention the child.
https://ibb.co/CfbQhfg
https://ibb.co/3y69bG32
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Hi
Do you have his War Record ? That shows that he arrived back in Melbourne from England on the 30/11/2019 having shipped out in August 1919 therefore he could not have fathered a daughter in Australia in October 1919
If Stanley's daughter was aged 1 year and 8 months on 30 June 1921, she would have been born around October 1919
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But if he married in Aberdeen in December 1918 then there could easily have been a baby of that marriage in October 1919. Has anyone checked the England / Wales birth records in case she followed him down to the south coast ??
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Thanks for pointing that out; that seems obvious but I had missed it. Stanley's military discharge was 7-12-19. If his statement about the child's age is correct, that would put conception closer to January 1919.
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Do you know if this document is available somewhere? It looks like he told her he was illegitimate?
SHERIFF, Mary Ann. Aberdeen Scotland solicitors write on her behalf re her husband Stanley Layman Sheriff, 1919. He is an Australian gunner, and they met when he was on furlough and subsequently married; she is only 19 years old. They were supposed to be going to Australia, but he has put it off, and now she doubts his background and wants it checked. Police confirm he has a sister Mrs. J. BROOKSBY of Horsham and he is of good character, but don't mention he was illegitimate. 6 pages, List 12.
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I have been trying to find out more about a Phyllis Jean or Jean Phylllis SHERIFF who married Roland (Rowland) Raymond Rufford WARDLEY in Victoria in 1942. He was born and died in Boolaroo, NSW (1919-1963).
I haven't found a birth record for Phyllis Jean in Australia, but a possible death under a second marriage surname.
Looking at FreeBMD UK there is a Phyllis SHERRIFF registered in June 1919 in Brentford, mmm HORTON. Long shot... Parents Fred SHERIFF and Amy HORTON.
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I don't have access to Ancestry UK (I'm in Brazil), but I have checked "Aberdeen City and Former Counties of Aberdeenshire, Scotland, Electoral Registers, 1832-1976" year 1921 for John and Mary Roberts and there are some possibilities. I suppose Mary Ann Sheriff wouldn't be listed, but maybe it could help finding their whereabouts before emigrating to the US (via Canada, although I couldn't find her mother in the migration records, edit: she went before them!)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-9981-7Q5Z-5?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AQK3T-JC4Q&action=view&cc=2185163&lang=en&groupId=
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The place to look is in the 1921 census, not in the 1921 registers of electors, because Mary Ann would probably not have been entitled to vote in 1921.
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Yes, I thought so. I have managed to find them in the 1911 Census. Sorry for the format, the attachment option is not working for me atm
Surname
Forename
Year
Gender
Age at Census
Ref
RD Name
County / City
ROBERTS
JOHN
1911
M
58
266/8/8
Nigg
Kincardine
ROBERTS
MARY
1911
F
55
266/8/8
Nigg
Kincardine
ROBERTS
ISABELLA
1911
F
26
266/8/8
Nigg
Kincardine
ROBERTS
MORY ANN (sic)
1911
F
266/8/8
Nigg
Kincardine
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1921.
Surname Forename Year Gender Age at Census Ref RD Name County / City
ROBERTS
ISABELLA M
1921
F
37
266/ 6/ 8
Nigg
Kincardine
ROBERTS
JOHN
1921
M
69
266/ 6/ 8
Nigg
Kincardine
ROBERTS
KATHLEEN E
1921
F
34
266/ 6/ 8
Nigg
Kincardine
ROBERTS
MARY
1921
F
63
266/ 6/ 8
Nigg
Kincardine
SHERIFF
MARY
1921
F
21
266/ 6/ 8
Nigg
Kincardine
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Mary Ann was the only SHERIFF in the household so no child.
Frank (Francis Archibald) Roberts had already emigrated to the US (5 Feb 1921).
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-C955-P7CS-M?view=index&personArk=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AJ623-G3B&action=view&cc=1368704&lang=en&groupId=
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We know Stanley in 30 June 1921 had the daughter in Australia, so perhaps that's why she doesn't appear in the Roberts household whenever the census was taken (post-Feb) in 1921.
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Yes, but not necessarily, given that he didn't have to 'produce' his daughter at the time of the application.
According to his military records, he had enlisted under the name "William", assumed his real name 5 July 1918, married 11 or 12 December (2 different marriage extracts), embarked to Australia 1 July 1919 and disembarked at Melbourne 20 August 1919.
He couldn't have a daughter born in October 1919 unless she was conceived abroad, ie Scotland or England, or adopted in Oz.
His marriage certificate was 'extracted' by the Australian Imperial Force HQ in London 4 Feb 1919. Interesting timing.
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The Horsham Times (Vic. : 1882 - 1954)
Tue 17 Jun 1924
Page 5
Obituary
One of the pioneers of Nurcoung,
Mr. James Sheriff, died on June 6.
He was a native of Dundee, Scotland,
and left home at 15 to join the sailing
ship Eagletine at Liverpool, on which
he served his time, later joining the
Vernhulm to come to Australia. He
was married at Mt. Gambier and he
and his wife were among the first
settlers at Nurcoung. His descend-
ants number four sons, four daughters,
seventeen grandchildren and one
great grandchild. He was 77 years of
age. The interment took place in Go-
roke Cemetery, the pall-bearers being
Messrs. T. and J. Fuller, J. Wright, F.
Maybery, H. C. Knight and R. Mewett.
The Rev. M. Hopper officiated at the
graveside.
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James' daughters and offspring alive on 17 June 1924:
1d.Jessie Brooksby (1gs.Joseph and daughter 1ggd.Marie Joan, 2gd.Ellen, 3gs.Albion, 4gs.William, 5gs.Malcolm, 6gd.Laura)
2d.Christina Jane Redford
3d.Martha Ellen Redford (7gs.Henry, 8gs.William, 9gd.Sarah, 10gd.Christina, 11gd.Winifred, 12gd.Jessie)
4d.Lillian Shemeld (13gd.Thelma, 14gd.Mary)
James' sons and offspring alive on 17 June 1924:
1s.Charles
2s.Andrew Thomas
3s.William Alexander (15gs.Laurel, 16gs.John, 17gs.Clarence)
4s.David Robert
(James died 1903)
What about Stanley??
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Since Stanley himself was raised by other family members other than his mother, I wonder if Stanley's child ended up being raised by Jessie or one of the other siblings when they're raising their kids. I thought maybe she could appear as an extra in a household in an Australia Census Record. I'm having a harder time finding those records, though.