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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: tulstig on Monday 03 December 07 20:43 GMT (UK)
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I have found Walter Noble on the 1861 and the 1871 censuses, born in Cuckfield around 1825, living in Westminster. On his marriage certificate (1854 in Westminster) his father is listed as William. However I can find neither hide nor hair of either of them on 1851, nor 1841 censuses. There is a noble family in Cuckfield at this time - the head being Charlotte a widow. Is it possible that William had died before the wedding, but isn't noted as so on the certificate? (i have found a death for a William Noble in 1840 in Cuckfield). BUt this still doesn't explain where Walter is in 1841/1851.
Any help with this conundrum much appreciated as always, ;)
Mark
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i amnot convinced at this stage that Charlotte Noble does belong to you directly (maybe an aunt or something)
IN 1841 she is living in Cuckfield (Buttinghill) HO107 1111 5 3
Charlotte Noble 45 Farmer Y (born in county)
Horice Noble 15 y (this should be your Walter)
Sarah Noble 13 Y
Susan Noble 10 Y
Ambrose Noble 8 Y
Chas Noble 6 Y
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Could this be Walter -image and transcription given as harvest hill Essex - but harvest Hill is in Sussex!
and he is in Westminster
image very difficult to read in parts so please bear with me!
1851
St James Westminster
address; Olive? (or Blue?) St
David L Attwell head 43 Carpenter Minidane? Herts
Harriett wife 43 Sandwich kent
Mary A daughter 19 Dressmaker St martins London
Frances daughter 17 Cloak maker St martins London
Jessie daughter 15 St Martins London
Edward nephew 18 Apprentice St james Westminster
William Brett Visitor 35 Servant paddington London
Robert Godard Visitor 17 Errnand Boy Norfolk
WALTER NOBLE Vist 24 Porter Harvest Hill Essex
(Walter transcribed as Visitor -but not sure that's what the image reads)
HO107 1484 134 55
I cannot find a Walter b harvest Hill in other census
Suz
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now in 1851 i have found a Sarah Noble age 25 b. Cuckfield living in a 'Severn' Household listed as cousin the head Thomas is a teacher of music and singing
6 Euston Place St Pancras Marylebone
HO107 1494 535 47
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HI toni*
Thanks for the input/ help.
Yes I found this one, then checked out Horice (Horace) on later censuses - on which his age vaires, but is nearer being born in 1823. So still a possibility?
Hi suzard,
hadn't seen that but could well be him. WIll check out the image. Still need to find him in 1841.
Cheers,
Mark
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i saw that Suzard but was unsure
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I had to think about it, but Harvest Hill is part of/very close to Cuckfield
and the Noble name was in that area in 1867
Kellys directory 1867 lists in Cuckfield
"Henry Alfred Noble, farmer, Harvest Hill"
so it seems it may be a possibility
Suz
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Harvest Hill is in Ansty - part of Cuckfield parish. The big house there was lived in by the Best family in the late 1800s and early 1900s.
Henry A Noble is there in 1851 age 59 b Camberwell. Farmer of 19 acres employing 2.His wife is Mary Ann.
Charlotte is also living in Ansty.
Horace and family are living in Harvest Hill Cottage.
Andrea
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Can't find Walter in 1841. Henry and Mary Ann are together - no kids. Charlotte is a farmer in Ansty with her brood.
I wonder if Walter was at school?
Andrea
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Thanks all for the additions,
I'm still thinking William (father of Walter)may have been Charlotte's husband who died in 1840. Maybe brother of Henry? I guess getting the death cert might give the answer, one way or another.
Mark
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that will only tell you who registred the death i think and waht relation they were to the deceased (along with the obvious cause of death etc,)
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Hi toni*
Yes - hopefully it as registered by Charlotte, (or even Horace) which will fill in a piece of the puzzle. In the mean time i'll keep trawling the sites.
Mark
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Have you looked at A2A? Harvest Hill apears to have been part of the Sergison estate - they owned most of Cuckfield - and there is a reference to HA Noble decd in 1874. A will might prove fruitful. William may have left one too.
Canon Cooper's book on Cuckfield gives a list of Freeholders in 1697 and Harvest Hill is 51 acres occ Stephen Anstie, C Sergison and there is a footnote which says "Harvest Hill was occupied by the Burtenshawes in 1722 when the house was destroyed by fire, and in 1806 E Bates entered in his diary Harvest Hill estate sold to Mr Noble £2240"
All adds a bit to the picture.
Andrea
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wow Andrea thats a century plus some eariler than Walters birth, great find
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There are baptisms of children for William and Charlotte Noble on the IGI in Cuckfield. Batch number C024337. No male child there though.
Andrea
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Wow indeeed - sillgen/Andrea - Wonderful find- will check out the wills route. Strangely enough the BUrtenshaws of Cuckfield are ancestors too!!!! So fro teh IGI looks like William was Charlotte's hubby - so possibly they are Walter's paretns too.
It certainly adds to teh jigsaw- poca a poca as we say here (little by little)
Thank you loads,
Mark
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It is very odd that there are no Noble marriages anywhere near Cuckfield on the SMI. The only one for William to a Charlotte is too early I think. To Charlotte Cawthorn in Brighton on Jul 22 1809. botp. There are various other Nobles around the Brighton/Preston area but I have a feeling they are not yours. I have the Cuckfield parish register index from 1598 to 1699 and there are no Noble entries at all.
Andrea
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1871 census has Henry A Noble still at Harvest Hill age 79 and with him as farm bailiff is his nephew Horace Noble age 25? born Cuckfield. The older generation all seem to come from London. Charlotte is from St Dunstan in the East according to the 1851 census so I expect she and William married somewhere there too . It is always possible the older children were baptised up there I suppose.
Andrea
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Just looked at familysearch for a marriage for William Noble to Charlotte and there is a member submitted one which shows the two girls, Juliet and Sarah, born in Cuckfield as children of William and Charlotte Cawthorne. Dates do not seem to match at all though so I should treat that with caution.
Andrea
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hi all out there,this is a michael round here ref :walter noble he was my great grand father on my mom,s side . i have some good stuff about the nobles of cuckfield if any wants to get back to me ;D william and charlotte married in brighton 22nd july 1809 at st nicolas.william noble also in 1809 was allowed to hunt for game.i also know how his brother henry alfred came to farm there.get back soon ;)
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Hi Michael and welcome to rootschat. I am sure Tulstig will get back to you when he see this. I would be very interested in your Cuckfield details too as I am involved with Cuckfield Museum and we like to have copies of local family trees as we get a lot of reserachers in.
Andrea
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Hi All again,
Not been on for a while (and not had notifications?!), apologies for not replying sooner.
Would love more info Michael, and yes - welcome to rootschat -for me the best and most helpful site for family hunting. Any info on Walter and Charlotte would be most welcome.
Thanks,
Mark
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hi mark,sorry i took so long in getting back.as you know i am a relation of walter noble do you fit in the family tree any where?
any way i was looking at the records office for west sussex when i came across this collection,THE SERGISON ARCHIVES in it was this item.its called TITHES OF CROUCHFIELDS OR ROUGHFIELDS AT ANSTY CROSS.(THIS IS IN CUCKFIELD).
level item
CATALOGUE NO SERGISON MSS 2/14/1
TITLE CONVEYANCE(LEASE AND RELEASE,LEASE MISSING)IN CONSIDERATION OF £60FROM(A)WILLIAM CLUTTON OF CUCKFIELD GENTLEMAN,TO (B)RICHARD NOBLE OF ST.NARY AT HILL,CITY OF LONDON,ESQUIRE,AND(C)SAMUAL LANCASTER OF ST MARY AT HILL,CITY OF LONDON,BRANDY MERCHANT.(TRUSTEE OF THE SAID RICHARD NOBLE)
DATE 23RD MARCH 1807
DESCRIPTION TITHES OF CORN,GRAIN AND PULSE ARISING OUT OF THE FARM,LANDS AND HEREDITAMENTS CALLED CROUCHFIELDS OR ROUGHFIELDS AT ANSTY CROSSIN CUCKFIELDS(18A),IN OCCUPATION OF WILLIAM BROOKER,WHICH SAID FARM WAS CALLED FIELDS OR SHOULDERS AND WAS FORMERLY THE ESTATE OF SARAH,WIFE OF (A),AND NOW WAS THE ESTATE 0F(B),AND WHICH SAID TITHES WERE PART OF A PORTION OF TITHES CALLED THE CHURCH PORTION.
BY THIS DEED, THE SAID TITHES WERE CONVEYED BY (A) TO(B),AND HIS ASSIGNES,FOR THE TERMOF HIS NATURAL LIFE,AND AFTER THE DETERMINATION OF THAT ESTATE IN HIS LIFETIME,TO THE USE OF (C),AND HIS HEIRS,DURING THE NATURAL LIFE OF (B),IN TRUST FOR(B),AND HIS ASSIGNES ,AND THEREAFTER TO THE USE OF (B),HIS HEIRS AND ASSIGNES,FOREVER.
WITNESSES SAMUAL WALLER AND WILLIAM MORSEE.
I BELIVE RICHARD WAS EITHER THE FATHER OF WILLIAM AND HENRY ALFRED AS HE WAS A VERY WEALTHY PERSON AS TO HOLD LAND DOWN IN CUCKFIELD AND TO LIVE IN LONDON.BIT OF A SPECULATOR MAYBE AFTER HE DIED THE LAND WAS SPLIT BETWEEN WILLIAM AND ALFRED.AND HORACE IN THE END HAD THE LOT.BUT WALTER I BELIVE WAS BORN IN LONDON HE IS ONLY SAYING WHERE HE WAS ON THE CENSUSES OF 51 ,61 ,HE REMAINS A BIT OF A MYSTERY.BY THE WAY HIS SON EDWARD IS MY MOTHER,S FATHER.
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hi sillgen,michael here sentsome stuff to mark last night hope he recived it ok.this was about a henry walter noble who kept a pub on the portobello road in 1882.this guy came from cuckfield born 1858.the pubs name was freemasons arms number 76 portobello rd.his wife was called ann aged 30.and they have 3 kids.this is listed post office directories of the time.
i have also got some more stuff to send to him and post for others.
in the 1836 polling lists for cuckfield only richard noble is able to vote as he is the landowner of harvest hill and ansty farms.so william and henry must have worked for him and not been the land owners.after william dies then charlotte is looking after ansty farm.richard had made the provision that if he died then the farms would remain in the family.when henry alfred dies in about 1874 then the farms are sold off.on 20th july 1874 the stock is sold in a sale then on the 24th of july the farms are sold.you can see this in national archives a2a type richard noble for a search.hope this helps but still no walter ???makes me want to cry catch you later
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Interesting stuff. I will look into it. Many thanks
Andrea
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HI all,
Yes got the stuff Thanks. Have checked into Henry Walter he is the son on Horace Noble - all from Cuckfield. Also found Henry Alfred Noble (1796) farming at Harvest Hill, with Horace next door in 1816. Henry Alfred is William Noble's brother - William being Walter's dad, so HA = Walter's uncle - likewise still no sighting of him though!! Henry Alfred does have birthplace of Camberwell - so perhaps time to move saerch to london?!
Mark
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Just found this forum - very useful as Walter Noble is my great great great grandfather. I had discovered the William Nathaniel Noble/Charlotte Cawthorne marriage and various children - yet I too cannot find direct mention of them with Walter. Very frustrating!
In comment to the Sergison Catalogue find - there is a St Mary at Hill in the city of London EC3 area - could richard Noble have come from here?
I have a copy of Walter's death certificate if anyone is interested in the information therein?
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Hi Buzz,
Would love t oknow how you connect back to Walter, and get info from Walter's death cert. I have his marriage cert, and am happy to share info therein.
I'm still not convinced that the marraige of William to Charlotte Cawthorn is the right one - Still too many imponderables (unless anyone can point out to me otherwise): From census ages Charlotte would have been 17 at the oldest at the tiem of this marriage, also why would they then wait so long to have children, and if Charlotte was indeed from London why marry in Brighton? Also there was a 'Noble' family of Brighton at around the same time.
I'll PM you my e-mail address and if you'd like direct descendant report for Walter as I currently have it, and Marriage info I can send it you.
Cheers,
Mark
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Tulstig - you are right to not be convinced 100% as nobody seems to have come up with any difinitive link between William and Walter.
The reason I have latched onto William Nathaniel being the father is based on the marriage certificate for Walter stating his father was William, a farmer, and deceased and hailing from Cuckfield.... William Nathaniel obviously meets these criteria... but you are right to question it being absolute fact that they are father/son.
If William and Charlotte did marry in 1809 - they certainly didn't wait for long before having kids. My current offspring list for them reads as
William Richard 1810
Frederick 1812
Alfred 1814
Henry S 1818
Catherine 1819
Juliet Ann 1821
Horace 1823
Sarah 1825
(Walter would be 1826 - but no baptismal records)
Susannah 1829
Ambrose 1832
Charles 1834
Walter's death certificate states he died on 2nd June 1878 at 17 Moor St aged 51. He was still working as a Cellarman and suffered cirrhosis of the liver. Henry Noble (son) was present at death (address 43 Berkeley Square, St georges, London.)
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Hi Buzz999,
Thanks for the additional info. I only had the offspring starting with Horace 1823. Have now found all but William and Frederick on IGI listing for Cuckfield. Couldn't find the first two though?
I also had chosen William and Charlotte from the marriage cert, and then subsequent census entries for Charlotte in Cuckfield as only logical mother. It's just Charlotte's age that bothers me at time of marriage - but not completely outlandish. Also wondered why they'd get married in Brighton. Do you know anything more about her family?
Mark
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Found the first 2 baptisms through familyhistoryonline.net
I guestimate Charlotte's age at marriage to be 17 (d.o.b. 1792) - is that the same as you? I'm certainly no expert but I gather that's not young at all for marriage in those days.
I don't have any further info on her at all - other than her place of birth being St Dunstans in the East... think I got that from a census return. Might try to search that route a little further.
And yes... it is a mystery as to why they would marry in Brighton... that too needs further investigation i think.
my line of descent from walter carries down from his oldest son Walter John William, who had 2 sons - william (the youngest) also had 2 sons - the youngest of which was my grandad. Which line do you descend through?
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I'd all but forgotten about familyhistoryonline.net - haven't used it for ages -thanks for the reminder.
Yes I reckon the same re Charlotte's age. although in one cesnsus it does have her yob as 1796, but that could easily be wrong.
Yes I got the St Dunstans in the East from the census too, otherwise nonethewiser where she comes from.
I don't actually descend from Walter - I am researching the tree for my best friend (Ann Noble) who incidentally still lives in Sussex - Steyning - not that far from Cuckfield. We were around Ansty to see the farm locations a while ago. If you want a copy of the descendant report for her line I'm happy to send it you if you mail me.
She's no whizz on teh computer but would also like to be in touch if you'd like,
Cheers,
Mark
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Sorry meant to say Annie descends through Walter's 6th child - Frank Christopher who had five offspring, one of which was her great granddad.
Mark
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Hi
Just to point out that the male baptisms for Cuckfield are not on the IGI at that time for some reason. Only the girls. My fiche index of naptisms has William Richard Noble, son of William Nathaniel and Charlotte of Harvest Hill 22 July 1810 and Frederick son of the same 12 April 1812.
Andrea
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hi gang,found this on net henry noble married a mary ann 5th jan 1819 st geoges westminster,st georges,hanover square.just close to where walter,s son was living at the time of his death.i think that is our man down at cuckfield a bit later on.will let you know what death cert for william says when it arrives one way or other..................michael
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sorry i forgot to put henry alfreds wife surname on it was mary ann luppons
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are you referring to William Nathaniel's death cert? If so - i already have a copy - info contained states he died 12th may 1840 agec 52 years in parish of cuckfield. occupation states he was "gentleman". Cause of death - inflammation of chest. Charlotte is the informant - death registered 15th may - registrar was a William Cooper.
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does anyone know how we can get a copy of the marriage of william to charlotte that happened in 1809 in brighton - that would tell us at least if it's the same william and charlotte from cuckfield?... wouldn't it? I can't remember who thought they had found the record... or where they found it?
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HI Buzz999
AS i understand it Marriage certificates were not issued pre 1837. However from 1774 to 1837 the church had a template book in which marriages were entered. The book for St Nicholas's in Brighton for thi period is hel on microfiche in the Brighton History centre. Brighton History Centre
Brighton Museum and Art Gallery
Pavilion Gardens
Brighton
BN1 1EE
Tel: 01273 296971/2
Fax: 01273 292862
(details at http://www.citylibraries.info/localhistory/documents/bhc_brighton_parish_registers_22_04_06.pdf)
Not sure how of when you can get access,(They have an e-mail so will e-mail them to find out) I'm going to see if any of my local contacts fancies an afternoon out perusing the microfiches. I'm also pretty sure that the only details on there will be name of bride & groom, date, signatures of Priest, bride & groom & witnesses. Still it may provide a clue
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mark you are quite right in what you are saying about williams marriage cert.but we can only hope one of the nobles was a witness.on one of mine in 1700,s his father had signed.so there is hope.or maybe a brother.
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I've just had a very nice and friendly e-mail reply from the Brighton Library- history department re a copy of the Parish record for William's marriage and they are going to send it to me in the post sometime in the next couple of days- let's see if it has any more info of use. Hopefully should be here within 10 -14 days - watch this space :)
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Well done!! fingers crossed it might shed a little light!
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I've just received the Marriage entry for William and Charlotte - but not much additional info I'm afraid! ONe of the witnesses was Charlotte Noble or is it Charles? (image attached) and the other John Pocock also appears on the entry before this so I am assuming he was somebody at the church who regularly witnessed for people.
Anyway check out the image and let me know what you think,
Mark
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Mark
I would say it was Charlott
The other name of John Pocock was probably the verger - they often witnessed marriages, sometimes signing several pages of the register in advance.
Chris in 1066
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Thanks Chris,
Now I wonder who Charlott Noble was? Sister, mother aunt cousin? - guess no way of knowing?
Thanks again,
Mark
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Hi Mark
I am sure we rootschatters could have a good go at finding out ::) ;D
When and where was the marriage?
Kerry
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Hi Kerry,
Marriage was
22 July 1809 St Nicholas Church, Brighton. Walter Noble, Charlotte Cawthorne.
Witnessed by Charlott Noble.
Any help in sussing out who the 2nd Charlott was much appreciated,
Mark
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No marriages for a Charlotte Noble on the Sussex Marriage Index except for one 1833 in Brighton, so either not a sister or she never married. :-\
Kerry
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maybe a sister in law ?
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Sorry I did try some other searches last night but my ISP was playing up and the crucial websites such as rootschat were unable to me!
I got frustrated, threw a fit and went and watched TV instead. :'(
Kerry
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I did managed to find two deaths though, one about 1840 - Cuckfield and one 1853 in Brighton. So there must have been two Charlotte Nobles. I will try and recheck tonight at home if web doesn't play up again.
Kerry :)
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Thanks Toni -
I hadn't considered a sister in law. At the moment I have just one brother for William - Henry Alfred (1796) who was married to Mary Ann Lupons - as faras aI can tell without children.
And Thanks again Kerry
I too had problems with my ISP last night - wouldn't let me enter hardly any sites - I too opted for the TV!!
- I look forward to hearing more from you.
Thanks
MARK
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Ok first death
1840, March quarter
Cuckfield
volume - 7
page - 219
Kerry
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Second death
1853, december quarter
Brighton
volume - 2b
page 129
and Find my past gave me the corresponding burial
buried 11 October 1853
age 66
at Brighton, St Nicholas
Kerry
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Thanks Kerry,
Guess I'll get the death certs to see if they give up any important info that'll help identify the families. I have Charlotte's birth as around 1792/1790 so the second may fit with her - but to be sure I'll need to see both - then might be clearer.
Thansk again. I'll keep you posted,
Mark
BTW - is that cute little girl you? a few years ago?
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Yes the cute little girl was me a couple of years ago ;D ;D ::) ::)
The 1841 census with Charlotte (widow) has her born 1786 but bearing in mind the 5 years for the 1841 it could be the 1853 death.
Hopefully the 1840 death certificate would give the age of the other one.
Kerry
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Was hoping I might find the 1840 death in the Cuckfield parish register but it is not there so she must have been in one of the outlying places in the registration district.
Andrea
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I wonder if she was born in the Cuckfield registration district as well. I've tried searching the IGI but no results. :-\
Kerry
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HI and thanks again,
Yes the 1841 could be the 1853 death Charlotte - I think I'll get both certs then maybe have more info for both and be able to tie them both into the family line.
If she was a sister in law her name wouldn't have been Noble at birth so perhaps that¡'s why you can't find anything? the other Charlotte was born in London according tot the later census.
M
;)
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I was just testing to see if you are more awake than I am! ::) ;D
Tried the Sussex Marriage Index for another Noble married a Charlottte, not in Sussex the only one is the 1809 to Charlotte Cawthorne.
Kerry
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Not sure if I'm more awake than you ;D
It looks like the Nobles moved into Sussex with Walter's parents generation, and lived between London and Sussex, So I'll see if I can find something in that area for a Noble marrying a Charlotte - trouble is there were several families of Noble in London at that time :-\
M
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HOla all,
Have just relooked at the 1841 census for Charlotte in Ansty (Cuckfield) - HO107/1111/7
From the transcription she has Thomas Cruthers living with her- looking at the original it is Cawthorne aged 40 (probably her brother)- both born out of county - so this is almost definitely the right Charlotte & William - but still no Walter, who would have been about 13 - 15 at this time - where is he ??? ???
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Resurrecting this post if anyone has any more, I have researched a little into Richard Noble who was the father of Henry Alfred and William Nathaniel (Walter's father).
Original documents already mentioned here I think linking Richard to St Mary at Hill London and I have found that he ran wine and brandy merchants at no. 35 st Mary at hill called Baxter, Kemp and Noble for which he has bought insurance in 1794.
Henry Alfred was born in Camberwell and interestingly Richard Noble's business partner Richard Kemp is listed as living in Camberwell upon his death in 1798
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HI Buzz999
Thanks for the addition. I thought perhaps the trail had gone cold. Thanks for teh new info. Any more you have gratefully received.
Mark
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ME again.
Just found a baptism entry on Ancestry for William Nathanial - Parents listd as Richard and Charlotte. As I don't have the exclusive membership I can't see any more details- Anyone able to help?
Cheers
Mark
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i have ancestry i think still, will check it out but don't remember finding william nathaniel before with those parents - what did you put into search?
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Found baptism William Nathaniel Noble 25 May 1788 in parish St Mary at Lambeth, Surrey, parents Richard Noble and Charlotte Noble. Data originally from England Parish Registers 1538 - 1812 - wonder if this register may hold their marriage?
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St Mary at Lambeth is now demolished and used to stand on Lambeth Road at gateway to Lambeth Palace. This must have been their place of living at this time. i have found a marriage record for Richard Noble to a Charlotte Wilson on 12 nov 1780 in St Marylebone Parish - could be them?
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Whey hey -looks like they're the ones- another step back in time.
Huge thanks, Buzz999.
Mark
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Found this in the Times London for 1812 regarding Richard Noble wine and spirit merchant forming part of a committee taking the West India Dock Company to task - makes for interesting reading about their plans. Copy was quite hard to read in parts but I have done my best to transcribe! Interestingly another one of the members has the surname Cawthorn - perhaps a family member of William Nathaniel's future wife? or coincidence? were they 2 families in the spirit trade perhaps?
The Times London 26 August 1812
Hambro Coffee House Aug 12 1812 – At a meeting this day of the importers of wines and spirits in the Port of London, convened principally for the purpose of taking into consideration the grievous injury and injustice sustained by them, their connections and the Public at large, from the monopoly of the West India Dock Company.
Walker Gray, Esq. in the chair.
The following resolutions were unanimously adopted: -
That security to property, reduced charges and facility to trade as appears by the preamble? to the Act of Parliament for the incorporation of the West India Dock Co., were its professed objects and promised advantages to the Public.
That the warehouses at the West India Docks are very much exposed to the influence of the sun and air and consequently quite unfit for the custody of strong spirits like Rum and moreover that there is not even sufficient accommodation, such as it is, to contain the whole importing: but that a considerable proportion thereof is left exposed for months together in the open air and that during the summer season when protection from the weather is so indispensably necessary.
That independent of the radical objection to the construction of the West India Docks, as far as relates to the custody of Rum, the distance is not only attended with very great inconvenience but the consequent increased expense of carriage is a tax on trade of no inconsiderable magnitude.
That the loss on Rum at the West India Docks by excessive evaporation, leakage, and waste combined with exorbitant charges grows and notorious abuses and mismanagement is not only too great to be any longer submitted to by the Dealers in Rum and their connections but that the said Docks, as far as relates to this important branch of Commerce and Revenue, are justly to be considered as a great Public Evil.
That owing to the frequent and great deficiencies, both in strength and quality of Rums delivered from the West India Dock, the merchants are assailed with perpetual complaints, none the less harassing to them from the consciousness that their connections have such just and serious case to be dissatisfied.
That the merchants, having no other alternative left, are reluctantly compelled for their own complete justification as traders, to resort to this pubic exposure of facts after having so long in vain, endeavored to procure redress by other means.
That a subscription be forthwith entered into to defray the expenses of an application, if necessary, to Parliament, or of such other measures as may be deemed requisite under the present circumstances.
That the Annual Subscription payable on the 1st Jan be entered into and ????? opened for the signatures of the wine and spirit merchants and others interested in that a perpetual fund may be established for the resistance of any future encroachments on their property and just rights, and also for the maintenance of the reputation and property of the Port of London, whether invaded by the monopoly of the West India Dock Co. or in any other manner: and for general purposes of the Wine and Spirit trades that the following Gentlemen do constitute of committee for carrying into effect the objects of this meeting, viz
Messrs James Arboise Messrs Solomon Peile
Thomas Bradley Thomas Ramsey
George Bridges Ald John Keay
William George Bunyon John Scott
Robert Butcher Thomas Smith Ald
William Cawthorn Anthony Soulby
John Gowen James Stonehouse
John Gray John Talver
William Hayes John Tennant
Christopher Idle William Timson
R G Johnson Joshua Watson
William Mordall John Wild
Richard Noble
That a general meeting of the Wine and Spirit trades be held annually on the 1st Wednesday in January in order to receive the report of the Treasurer and to continue the members of the committee or select others in their room as may be deemed necessary by a majority of subscribers then present.
That the ??? of this meeting be given to Walker Gray, Esq. for his able conduct in the chair.
That the above resolutions be published in the newspapers and otherwise at the discretion of the committee.
John Gowen, secretary
Subscriptions received by Mr John Tennant, No 6 Tower Hill, Treasurer or by Mr John Gowen, No 59 Mark Lane, Secretary to the committee
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Thanks again Buzz999 - interesting reading.
I've been trawling as many sites as I can trying to see if I can add any updates, but am getting quite frustrated. There is a marriage of a Richard Noble to Charlotte Wilson, and a birth of a Richard parents Richard and Phillis but as I don't have the deluxe (or whatever it is) membership I can't check these dates to see if it's our man.
Should I find anything I'll keep you posted.
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24. At Cambrrwell, Mr. Richard Kemp, a partner in the house of Messrs. Baxter, Kemp, and Noble, St. Mary at Hill.
The European magazine, and London review, Volume 33 1798
No idea which branch of the Kemp's Richard is from.
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thought this thread may have gone cold - if anyone is still interested i have the last will and testament of Richard Noble, wine and brandy merchant - Alfred and Williams' father. He was by then living in Thornton Heath, Croydon and left all to his wife Charlotte - and then it was to pass to his youngest Alfred. William is not mentioned. the Will was written in 1828 and he died in 1837. If anyone is intested i could try and attach it. it is hard to read due to the language but you kind of get the gist of it.
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In 1834 an Abraham James Tipton married a Mary Ann Noble at Saint Mary Newington. Abrahams first wife had died and Abraham and others were declared bankrupt in 1831 from the trade of chemist and druggist. Although he is still a chemist in 1841 at Ethan Place,Southwark. Whether or not Mary Ann is related to Walter I don't know.