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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Topic started by: Digas1 on Saturday 01 December 07 14:10 GMT (UK)
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Hello,
This is an attempt to break down a huge brick wall.
Evan Thomas m Ann Maria Phillips 13.3.1845 on St Helena Island, South Atlantic.
15 or so years after Napoleon's death on the island.
Owen Thomas m Sarah Gentry 8.8.1846 on the island. For various reasons it is assumed Evan and Owen are brothers but this is not conclusive.
Evan's daughter Henrietta Louisa came to England and is my Great Grandmother.
Evan's son Owen John went to Boston and married Jane M Hubbard 25.12.1873.
Family lore says that one of Napoleon's gaolers/grooms was an ancestor.
As no record of the births of Evan or Owen can be found in the Archives on the island it is possible that Evan and Owen came to the island as children of a military family, one of the many who were brought over to look after Napoleon.
Clutching at straws, because of their names I am supposing that they could be Welsh. A stretch, but I've got to start somewhere.
Hence this post.
Does any of this ring a bell with anyone?
Additional information:
In Boston, Massachusetts, Owen John Thomas and Jane had at least 2 children. Henrietta A. b1875 and Robert E. b 1880.
Robert E. Thomas m Florence R. (Nee unknown) and had a son Gordon E. b1902, California.
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Hiya when were Evan and Owen born?
Have you got their marriage certs as this would give you Fathers name and Occupation and more to go on
Welsh Lady
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Hi Welsh Lady,
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately, although St Helena is British, I haven't found marriage certificates, only entries in the Parish Registers in the island archives. No names were registered as parents in these entries. Evan and Owen were born c1822, this date being derived from Evan's death entry in the archives. I only had a short time on the island so didn't follow Owen's links.
However, your reply got me thinking. Maybe there is a marriage record in the BMD's in Britain. I've never thought of looking! Thanks for the nudge in that direction!
Regards,
Digas1
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If you go on to the General Register Office site you can order oversees certificates on there.The names are to common to find without more info.
Welsh Lady
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Hi Welsh Lady,
I'll do that. I don't know why I didn't think of this before. I just assumed that no certificates were issued. Thanks for your help.
Digas1
Update: I've just spoken to the GRO and am advised that no certificates were issued! The rules weren't necessarily enforced. Now Im really stuck.
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Shame about the marriage certs .You say you have seen the original entries in St Helena in the Church Records which did not give the Fathers names.Did it give any other info e.g.witnesses?
Welsh Lady
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Hi Digas1
Welcome to RootsChat! :)
I am wondering why US censuses are no use to you - don;t they give parents' place of birth (or is that just the more recent ones?)
Goooogling finds several promising references:
St Helena Archivesoffers look-ups for a small fee
http://www.sainthelena.gov.sh/tourism/museums3.html
St Helena Virtual Archives books covering the history of the island
http://www.bweaver.nom.sh/
You don't say whether there is a military connection but the National Archives identifies the units that were posted there in Napoleonic times - might come in handy later?
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Napoleon_on_St_Helena
A description of what is available & some links here:
http://www.sthelena.se/genealog/genealog.htm
There are plenty of others!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Welsh Lady.
Yes I have seen the originals. I was lucky enough to visit the island a couple of years ago. To be honest, I can't remember whether I saw the original logged entry or whether I used the indexing system that they have. You must realize I was in a state of awe that I had managed to fulfill a long held dream to visit St. Helena and could only assimilate so much. However, I have photos of a lot of the entries so will look at these again. Once you get side tracked and go down another avenue of research, you tend to forget what information that you do have. I use Family Tree Maker to record my info but it's only as good as the info I input! It's also difficult to explain the archives on the island. They're not like the archives I'm used to. Without being derogatory, they're not as accessable. The sad thing is that I believe the only other copies are in the National Archives, London or Witswatersrand?, South Africa. Very little is digital and on line.
Regards,
Digas1
Arranroots, your post has just come up as I was typing. Thanks for the input. The island is UK not US and the GRO have told me that they don't have marriage certificates for that island. The look-ups offered by the archives take a very long time to come through. That's the reason I visited the island. I got tired of waiting for something I had requested. I subscribe to the St Helena websites and the other connections I will take a look at. Thanks for those.
I am truly grateful for any contacts, connections or threads.
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Hi Digas1
I realise the island is not US but you said that they went there later?
I am no expert on US censuses though!
How wonderful to get to the island yourself. That must have been quite an experience.
Good luck with your searches!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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The 1880 US census for Somerville, Middlesex, Massachusetts shows Owen J. Thomas (28, printer) and his wife Jane M. (29. Keeping House) plus children Henrietta (5) and Robert (4 months), both children born Massachusetts.
The birthplaces for Owen and Jane are both given as St Helena, and both also give their own parents' birthplaces (all 4 of them) as St Helena too.
Anna :)
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Hi Arranroots,
Sorry, I didn't read your post properly. However, it was Evan's son, my GGGrandmother's brother who went to Boston. I've tracked down 2 further generations from him. Yes a US census does give the parent's birth place and this is in fact given as St. Helena but Evan is not recorded in the registers and nor is his brother Owen as being born on the island. I can only assume that Evan's son didn't know where his father was born and gave St Helena as a substitute. The strange thing is, although the surname Thomas is very common on the island, there were very few Thomases before the mid 1800's. In the 1814 census of the island, there is only 1. From this I have made the leap to think that the name must have come in with the military, possibly guarding Napoleon.
Hi Anna, I was typing while your post came through. I have got this census info. Owen and Jane were born on the island. It's Owen's father Evan who is not in the birth records on the island. Thanks for your time and effort. It was kind of you to look this up for me.
Digas1
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It's Owen's father Evan who is not in the birth records on the island.
Yes, I gathered that it was Evan's birthplace you were looking for, which is why I highlighted the bit about Owen's parents' birthplaces.
Never mind :)
Hope you find what you're looking for
Anna
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Hello,
I've just had the most amazing piece of luck. A gentleman was reading my post on the St Helena genealogy web site and he has information about Evan. He has given me Evan's date of birth, where born and his father's name. ie 1.9.1821, St Helena, William. I have answered this gentleman's post and will hopefully have more information and sources, soon.
Apparently, Evan's father, William, was a clerk from Coity near Bridgend, South Wales who sailed on the HMS Eurydice on 29.9.1816 to St Helena to work for Solomon's, provisioning ships. He married and had both son's on the island and died tragically, by drowning in 1829.
I must now try to find information about Coity, the HMS Eurydice. I must confess, I'm truly amazed at this stroke of luck.
Thanks everyone who replied to my post and if there is any more information on the people and places that you think may help, I would be so grateful for your input. If I can return any of these favours, please let me know.
Diags1
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Hi again Digas1
That is great news! :D 8)
I hope your exchange of info proves very fruitful.
Your request will remain here, so anyone with further info will find it.
If you have further questions don;t hesitate to ask & perhaps we can come up trumps next time - at any rate, please mention us to your new contact - we grow by spreading the word!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arranroots,
It really is wonderful. It's about now that I realise why I do this. I will mention this site to the gentleman. I heard about the site from the radio! There's a genealogy program, I can't remember which day, that I happened to catch. The radio is on all day at our house and I just caught the tail end of the program that happened to mention your site that day. They say fact is stranger than fiction, you just couldn't make up the string of coincidences that has brought me to this point!
Regards,
Digas1
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Wonderful! I hope the information will continue to flood in.
Keep us posted and let us know if there is any more we can assist with.
Anna :)
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Thanks Anna. I certainly will keep you posted.
Digas1
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I realise that I'm digging up a very old thread here, but I am also descended from William Thomas!
Owen Thomas would be my grandmother's grandfather.
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Hello,
What a lovely surprise! I have followed Owen J Thomas (brother of my G Grandmother) from St Helena to Boston, Mass. USA and through 2 more generations. Owen's son Robert E. Thomas b1880 Mass. m Florence R. and Robert's son Gordon E. Thomas b c1902. I haven't got any further on this line. Any information would be gratefully received and I will of course share any of my information that I can.
Digas1
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Hello there!
I don't suppose you have a copy of Neil Walklate's article on William Thomas? I've got as far back as William's parents and 4 (?) siblings :)
In terms of the line your following, I may be able to help a tiny bit:
Owen's son Robert Evan Thomas b1880 Mass. (tracked up until 1930)
Florence R. Hurlburt b around Dec 1880 in Nova Scotia to George (b 1852)& Anna Hurlburt (b 1854)
Gordon Evan Thomas b 13/3/1906 Los Angeles, California
d 15/9/1984 Natick, Middlesex, Massachusetts, USA
m Marjorie Elizabeth Gower (date currently unconfirmed)
b 1907 in Leicester, Worcester, Massachusetts, United States
d 1990 in Holden, Worcester, Massachusetts, United States
They have a surviving son, grand-daughter, and great-grandson.
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Hi EarthlySparky,
Sorry for the delay in replying. I had to contact Neil for his permission to send you his article as obviously the copyright is his. He has no objection on the condition that the article is not published. As I don't know how to send via this site will you give me your email address (via a PM?) and I'll get the file to you.
I would also much appreciate your sources for the information you've sent. I record everything within Family Tree Maker with source information so that in the future any alterations can be made easily and correctly.
My info on Owen was from the US Census forms.
Regards,
Digas1
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Hiya Di :)
That's wonderful news. And thanks so much for taking the trouble to contact Neil. I really do appreciate it.
My sources were mainly US census, just tracking the names and dates, and cross referencing. I also use Family Tree Maker, so could prob send you GEDCOMs...once I've figured out how to do it!
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Well!
First of all, a huge thanks to Digas for all her help and additional info. It has been invaluable.
So, now we are left with a few gaps.
William Thomas of Coity had two sons; Evan and Owen.
Owen married Sarah Gentry (Ghentry) and had 5 children:
Martha Ann Rebecca (1/1/1847 - 13/8/1861)
Richard William (12/8/1851 - 13/8/1861)
Elizabeth Mary (21/1/1856 - ? )
Louisa Ann Maria (19/1/1860 - ? )
and my great-grandfather Albert James (6/11/1865 - 20/3/1931, m 4/8/1917)
I notice that the two elder children both died on the same day. Some sort of accident? Or contagious disease?
I can find no trace of what happened to the surviving sisters, and have precious little info about Albert prior to 1917.
Any help/info or ideas would be gratefully received :)