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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Stevie b on Wednesday 28 November 07 22:46 GMT (UK)
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Please help to identify this uniform from a family portrait.
Possible regiments are 96th foot or a Norfolk regiment.
Any help would be much appreciated.
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Hi Stevie,
Great picture! Can you put a name to him?
One thing that will narrow down the possible regiment is the facing colour (collar and cuffs in other words). Each regiment had a particular colour, and prior to 1881 (which this obviously is) not too many had white facings.
Here's a reference chart
http://uk.geocities.com/neil182@btinternet.com/facingcolours.htm
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Looks around 1840 or before to me...
Have you shown it to the National Army Museum???
They would love a look!!!
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Hi neil1821
Thanks for the prompt reply the link is a good one but has not really helped.
His name was William Mitchell Moore born 1806 Norwich, service number 90.
He enlisted 10/12/1823 in the 94th Foot, transfered to 96th Foot 12/02/1824, serving with the 96th in Bermuda, Tasmania and India until his discharge 09/09/1851.
The original oil painting measuring approx 36" X 32" of him has been passed down through the family via eldest son to myself from my god parents who unfortunately had no heirs.
I am not sure that the painting shows him in his 96th uniform as I believe the facings should be buff.
I am attaching a photo of the original uniform sleeve that I also have in my collection.
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Hi scrimnet
Thanks for looking and the reply. Do you think that the National Army Museum would be interested in a family portrait.
Steve
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If not, the Regt Museum certainly would be! But I'm sure such a marvelous bit of military history would be of interest to them.
Its a bit odd that such a lowly NCO would have had a competent portrait painted. You would normally expect to find only officers done in this manner.
Didi he get up to some derring do or other??
What a splendid bit of kit you have there!! Love the bit of sleeve...
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excellent portrait and a wonderful (matching) piece of his uniform!!
no mention of him (that i can see) in the regimental history i'm afraid, but i can tell you
320 privates transferred from the 94th foot to the 96th in Feb 1824
i think the Museum would be very interested and perhaps would be able to tell you more than me. this is the museum web site
http://www.tameside.gov.uk/museumsgalleries/mom
the curator is Garry Smith
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Hi Steve !
I wonder who the artist was ? .... can you see? ... wonder if he had it painted for his retirement ?
I couldn't find anything in the Gazette ... can anybody else ??
Annie :)
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Hi Annie
The painting is not signed as far as I can see.
I wonder if it could have been painted by a convict as he served from 1840 - 49 with the 96th Regiment of Foot in Tasmania, where his wife accompanied him and gave birth to 3 more children.
Two of his sons also enlisted in the 96th whilst in Tasmania and India.
Steve
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Hi All
Some more details that may be of use.
In 1860 the top of his swagger stick says Drill Sergent Moore - City of Norwich Rifle Volunteers, 1861 his occupation is given as Chelsea Pensioner and Staff Sergent West Norfolk Militia and his death notice 14/02/1874 Norwich Mercury says Drill Instructor - Attleborough Rifle Volunteers.
Does any of this help??
Posting some more pics.
Steve
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Steve,
I'm still not convinces the facing colours match the 96th.
Could the picture show the uniform of one of these volunteer regiments (I'm not familiar with their uniforms) and hence date from the 1850s?
I get the impression in the picture that he's a man of "mature" years ::)
Neil
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Hi Neil
Check out this link
http://www.artnet.com/Artists/LotDetailPage.aspx?lot_id=4E60A5EFC43C60B16429F29482493D56
It shows an officer of the 96th in uniform there are similarities to my painting, especially if the neck is done up and taking into account some artistic license!!
Steve
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I found this about 1st Norfolk (City of Norwich) Rifle Volunteer Corps .............. :)
1860.02 1st Norfolk (City of Norwich) Rifle Volunteer Corps
formed with HQ at Norwich by amalgamation of existing corps:
1st Norfolk Rifle Volunteer Corps at Norwich, raised 31 Aug. 1859
2nd Norfolk Rifle Volunteer Corps at Norwich, raised 15 Sep. 1859
3rd Norfolk Rifle Volunteer Corps at Norwich, raised 2 Sep. 1859
1861.03
1st Norfolk Mounted Rifle Volunteer Corps at Norwich (one troop raised 25 Mar. 1861) attached; redesignated late 1862 as 1st Norfolk Light Horse; disbanded ca. Aug. 1867
Annie :)
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Hi Steve,
There are some similarities with that miniature, I understand what you mean, but I'm still not too convinced. :) :)
In 1804 (year of the miniature), the 96th's facings were buff. They were disbanded a couple of times and reformed until in 1824 the 96th (with yellow facings) that William Moore joined was formed. So although both are 96th Foot, they're not really the same regiment (no continuity).
No-one has really commented yet on that sleeve insignia that you have (and which is clearly seen on the portrait). Presumably it's rank insignia, but whatever it is it's not common. It certainly has the elements though of some later Drill Sergeant insignia.
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Hi to everybody
Thanks for all your interest in the painting of my 3rd Gt Grandfather.
I had this reply from The Museum of the Manchester Regiment, “I have looked in British Army Proficiency Badges by Edwards and Langley and can find no reference to the badge in the combination shown in the image. I would suggest that you email the National Army Museum with your questions as they are recognised as the national experts on the subject of uniform and insignia. As for the painting I am not sure if the uniform is the 96th Ft, the cross-belt plate resembles none in the collection and there is not enough detail on the buttons to make-out any markings. The epaulettes may be a clue but the NAM will tell you more no doubt Regards Garry Smith Curator The Museum of the Manchester Regiment “
I have emailed the National Army Museum and sent a copy of the painting. I now eagerly await a reply.
I am coming to the conclusion that the uniform must be one or the Norfolk volunteer regiments.
Steve
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Here is the reply from the NAM
Enquiry: Identification of Uniform and Badges
Thank you for your e-mail dated 10 December 2007, which has been forwarded to me for a reply.
From the detailing visible in the image forwarded I think it most likely that your ancestor was serving in the 96th when this portrait was painted. The 94th had Green facings (collar and cuffs) whilst the 96th had yellow. The arm badge is that of a Colour Sergeant I believe it is pre 1866, from then the badges were worn on both arms.
Rifle Volunteers generally wore green uniforms; the City of Norwich Rifle Volunteers did wear green, however, I have been unable to confirm the colour worn by the Attleborough Rifle Volunteers. Neither can I find conclusive evidence of the uniforms worn by the West Norfolk Militia.
I believe the number 90 refers to your ancestors regimental number rather than his service number.
For further information on the Volunteer and Militia Regiments you may wish to contact the Royal Norfolk Regimental Museum, Norfolk Museum Services, Shirehall, Market Avenue, Norwich, NR1 3JQ. E-mail museums@norfolk.gov.uk For the 96th you should contact the Museum of the Manchesters, Ashton Town Hall, Market Place, Ashton-under-Lyne, OL6 6DL e-mail portland.basin@mail.tameside.gov.uk
I do hope the above information proves to be of interest for your research.
Yours sincerely
Mrs G Brewer
Curator, Department of Uniforms, Badges and Medals
Now making enquiries at the RNRM.