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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: wizz123 on Wednesday 28 November 07 22:34 GMT (UK)
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Was hoping somebody,might know of any Gypsy sites in or around the Southwell area of Nottinghamshire,during the late 1880-1900s.
My great grandmother Mary Smith b c1881,was born around this area.Her father was called William.
Thanks for viewing this thread.
Kind Regards
Wizz
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Hi Wizz
Have you asked on the Travelling People board of Rootschat?
Do you have gt granny on the 1881 census or later?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Hi Arranroots,
Didnt see there was a Travelling People Board,ooopps!!!.And lm not sure about my Gt Granny being on any of the census.Thanks for the gentle nudge.
Regards Wizz
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Hello again
Just having a look for the family - what did William do for a living, any idea?
When/where did Mary marry and to whom?
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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I haven't found your family yet - but I did find a William H SMITH, law stationer
W H Smith?? Is that the same guy who started the bookshops?? In Nottingham 1891?
RG12 Piece 2694 Folio 8 Page 9
How exciting!
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My Great Grandmother was called Mary Smith,b c1881,her father was called William,and he was classed as a labourer on Marys wedding certificate.
Mary wed a Ernest Archer in 1914,in Louth Lincolnshire.
Wizz :)
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Hmmm thanks for that! :-\
I had a good look this morning and I found a few that could be them but they seemed quite settled - no addresses like "tents" or "roadside" as I have seen before with travelling families. Then again, they might have been in tied cottages, who knows?
Were any of the SMITHs witnesses at the marriage? Sometimes you get mum or a sibling's name.
I don't like to admit defeat on SMITHs or JONESes, so anything else you know would help??
lkind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Thanks Arranroots, ;D
Will look on wedding cert now and let you know.
Wizz 8)
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On the wed cert the wittness :-\ are a Martha Nickolson and Arthur Hall.
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Groan!
:D
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Arranroots!!! wake up ;D,l have found a brill Gypsy/Traveller site,and think l might just be getting somewere,but please dont hold your breath waiting. :-X
Regards
Wizz
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Whoo hoo!
If you get any more clues from that, let us know please!
I hate to give up!!
A ;)
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I have sent an e-mail to Southwell Cathedral,to see if they have a system were somebody could check for me regarding the christening of Mary.
I know waht you mean about not giving up :D
Kind Regards
Wizz
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Hi Wizz
Notts FHS has transcribed St Mary Southwell baptisms and I don't see any likely candidates there.
There were other churches in Southwell ..notably Holy Trinity and both a Wesleyan and Baptist chapel
Notts Archives have Holy Trinity records 1846-1901
http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/home/leisure/archives.htm
There is also their own contact page
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/tanner/page17.html
Can I ask how sure you are she came from the Southwell area?
Heather
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There was around this time,a famous "Gypsy Smith" who was travelling the country at that time.He was to become a famous evangelist.
Regards
William Russell Jones
Cefn Mawr
Wrexham.
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Thanks wr jones and Heather,
Im just going by family talk that Great Grandma Smith was christened in Southwell Cathedral,and she was from a Gypsy Family.
l have just found a added problem,and that is l have always gone from Marys Wedding cert about her age.
On this cert of 1914 her age is 25,which would have made her born in 1889, and has l have said her father William.But l have just found her death,and her date of birth given there is 8th Feb 1894.
Which one do l take as the truth.?
Regards
Wizz
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What age and occupation is Ernest Archer on marriage certificate? The only Ernest Archer I can find in the Louth area on the 1901 census is aged 21 (occ. Clothiers Assistant), could Mary have lied to show she was nearer her husband's age and that she was over 21 so didn't need parental consent? (although Ernest could have been from elsewhere of course)
Found this Smith family in 1901, age of Mary is out a few years though, she would have been 19/20 on marriage :-\
RG13/3835 Folio 199 Page 71
Off Stuart? Street (caravan) Castleton Nearer, Rochdale, Lancs
William Smith 44 Wicker Basket ............ Hawkers Lincolns Gainsboro
Hetty 40 Nottinghams Newark
Fanny 19 Nottinghams Mansfield
Isabella 16 Yorkshire Huddersfield
Israel 9 Yorkshire Huddersfield
Mary 5 Nottinghams Mansfield
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Ernest in 1901 is at the Cavalery Barracks in Manchester and gives his place of birth as South Lincolnshire.Either trying to get away from the fact he was born in the workhouse in Louth,Lincs,or he thought Louth was in South Lincs.
I think your statement regarding Mary and her age is correct,as she was according to her daeth details born in Feb 1894.
And l have since found a Mary Smith born in 1894 at Southwell in the BDMs,so am hoping somebody could find out a little more about this Mary Smith for me,(fingers crossed).
Kind Regards
Wizz
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Thanks for the info Catone,lv followed what information you left,and found them on the 1901 census,but not the 1891 or 1881.
So,that as left me wondering,which way to turn next :-X.Or was it a case,of the being true travellers,were they were not ever asked to do a census in 1881 or 1891.?
Regards Wizz
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Ahhhhh,why am l so addicted to this family tree thing.l seem to get a lead,then!!!.Frustrating or what.
Why did she have the surname Smith,?
Regards Wizz
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Hi Wizz,
Not that its of much help to you, but SMITH is a common Gypsy/Traveller surname.
I know of quite a few English Gypsy families named SMITH in Newark on the Tolney Lane Traveller site and there are some well established Gypsy families in Leicestershire named SMITH.
A lot of Gypsy family history is passed via word of mouth as many Travellers couldn't read or write. Even now Gypsies and Travellers are the most educationally disadvantaged group in the UK today. However, they are fantastic story tellers and some Gypsies will come into schools and other establishments to tell amazing tales of Travelling life, which helps breaks down prejudice and barriers.
Kind regards,
Michelle ;D
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Hi,
Michelle, I know this is slightly off topic (sorry) but are there any records available for these Gypsies in Leicestershire?
I have an elusive Ann Swift who appears and disappears whose "illegitimate" son was a violin player and performer, who I did wonder might be Gypsy....not sure if Swift would be mistaken for Smith though but you never know!
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Hi Burto,
I can give you a few helpful websites, which may or may not have information about Gypsies and Travellers. If nothing else they may help to dispel a few myths like: not all Hawkers, Basket Makers, Horse Dealers, Knife Grinders etc were gypsies, but many were.
I personally don't know of SWIFT as a common Gypsy name, but that's not to say it isn't. Gypsy forenames were (and still are) often unusual, often names from the Old Testament too. Forenames on both the male and female lines are still handed down.
Try these sites:
http://website.lineone.net/~rtfhs/gypsy.html
http://journeyfolki.org.uk/HistoryCulture/GypsyExpressions/tabid/858/ctl/Terms/Default.aspx
http://www.leics.gov.uk/pressrelease.htm?id=100310
This is a genealogy site about Gypsy ancestors, some in Leicestershire and some with the surname SMITH.
http://www.sarah-henson.co.uk/names/loveridge.htm
Newark's Millgate Museum did have an exhibition about Gypsies and Travellers, but I'm not sure whether it was permanent. The staff there maybe able to offer some help: Tel: (01636) 655730
There is a Leicester Gypsy Group, but to my knowledge they're mostly involved in fighting for Travellers rights and liaising with Leicester Council.
I hope this helps you in some way.
Good Luck,
Michelle ;D