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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: Rowana on Wednesday 28 November 07 20:15 GMT (UK)

Title: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: Rowana on Wednesday 28 November 07 20:15 GMT (UK)
My Grandmother was Susan Jane Stronner, born on 29 Sept 1881 in Montrose. Her father is given as John Stronner, Boatbuilder, and her Mother is Jane Dunn, but it could be Swan! Her birth and death certs say her mother is Jane Dunn, but her marriage cert says Jane Swan!

John Stronner and Jane Dunn (or Swan) were married on 9 October 1874 in Montrose.

I'm now trying to trace who John Stronner was, and where he came from. I've found a John Stronner born on 28 May 1854 to David Stronner & Susan Robert in Arbuthnott on IGI.

The dates are about right, Arbuthnott is not too far from Montrose, and it seems logical to call his daughter Susan Jane, but have I got the right John Stronner?

How can I find out?

Any help much appreciated.

Cheers
Jim
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: runningbear on Wednesday 28 November 07 21:47 GMT (UK)
hi jim,

i think you are on the right track with david and susan ..

the stronner family were born arbuthnott and montrose around 1860's

1881 census- 35 india street, montrose

david...age 71...labourer
susan...age 64
helen...age 35...mill worker
robert...age 21...baker...born montrose
jane ann alexander...age 12...grand-daughter
nelly mary grant...age 3...grand-daughter.


Joe
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: runningbear on Wednesday 28 November 07 22:16 GMT (UK)
hi pal,

1881 census- montrose

john...age 27...boatbuilder
jane...age 28
david...age 6
alexina...age 3 (middle name dunn)
robert...age 1

and just to confirm the parents

1871 cenus- 15 india street, montrose

david..age 58...flour mill stocker
susan...age 53
helen...age 26...factory worker
john...age 16...boatbuilder
wilemina...age 14...mill worker
robert...age 11

i have no idea as of yet what happened to john stronner and jane dunn, the family can be found on the next set of censuses with john's sister helen stronner who is now helen grant.

1891 cenus- 86 castle street, montrose

helen grant...age 45
nelly grant...age 13...flax spinner

the stronner children

david...nephew...age 16...flax reeler
alexina...niece...age 13...flax reeler
robert...nephew...age 11...flax reeler
susan jane...niece...age 9
james...nephew...age 7
mary...niece...age 3
johann...age 7 months

1901 census- 51 castle street, montrose

helen grant...age 55...charwoman
nelly grant...age 23...boot machinist

the stronner children

alexina...niece...age 23...flax spinner
susan jane...niece...age 19...flax spinner
johann...niece...age 10


Joe
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: runningbear on Wednesday 28 November 07 22:41 GMT (UK)
hi pal,

had to finish the census off now that i have started....

1841 cenus- n craighill, arbuthnott

david...age 30...farm labourer
susan...age 25
mary...age 2
jane...age 1 week
jane robert...age 25...female servant

1851 census- 6 townhead cottage, arbuthnott

david...age 41...farm labourer...born dunn, forfarshire
susan...age 34...born arbuthnott
david...age 7
helen...age 5
james...age 3
lavinia...age 1

1861 census- 15 india street, montrose

david...age 53...carter
susan...age 43
jane...age 18...mill worker
david...age 17...fireman
james...age 13...saw mill worker
lavinia...age 11
charles...age 8
john...age 6
williamina...age 4
robert...age 1

will go and search for jane dunn and family...


Joe
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: runningbear on Wednesday 28 November 07 23:29 GMT (UK)
hi pal,

looks like jane dunn was the daughter of alexander and jane baird who married in montrose 2/2/1845.

and it looks like alexander was the son of alexander and christian crow.

1841 census- castle street, montrose

alexander...age 41...flaxdresser
christian...age 38
colon...age 19...flaxdresser
alexander...hairdresser
william...age 15...flaxspinner
isabel...age 13...flax spinner
mary...age 10
williamina...age 6
g....age 4
thomas...age 2
mary ann crow...age 21
ann buchan...age 75
mary duncan...age 15..flaxspinner

1851 census- 117 castle street, montrose

alexander...age 27..hairdresser
jane...age 28
alexander...age 6
susan... age 2

(think jane baird was the daughter of john and susan taylor)

1861 census- 93 castle street, montrose

alexander...age 36...hairdresser
jane...age 34
alexander...age 15
susan...age 11
jane...age 8
eliza...age 6
georgina...age 4
jessie...age 2
mary..age 1 month

1871 census- 94 castle street, montrose

jane...age 48...domestic
jane..age 19...milliner
eliza...age 17...mill worker
georgina...age 15...mill worker
jessie...age 13...mill worker


Joe
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: Rowana on Thursday 29 November 07 10:06 GMT (UK)
Hi Joe,

This is absolutely brilliant!

Susan Jane Stronner married James Irvine on the 31 December 1908. They had 5 children, 2 of which died in the flu epidemic of 1919-1920. The youngest was Nellie Mary Grant Irvine, (My Dad's younger sister), so I now know where that name comes from!

I looks like John & Jane must have died sometime between the censuses of 1881 & 1891, and the children were being brought up by their aunt.

I can just remember as a small boy going with my Father to visit his Aunts Alexina and another, name forgotten, who lived in Murray street in Montrose.  This must have been in the mid 1950's or so.  You don't pay much attention when you are 7 or 8 years old!

Thanks very much for all this.

Cheers
Jim
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: ev on Thursday 29 November 07 10:09 GMT (UK)
hi jim/joe

on scotlandspeople
jane stronner(other surname dunn) died 1890 montrose angus
birth year 1851

ev
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: ev on Thursday 29 November 07 10:16 GMT (UK)
scotlandspeople
john stronner died 1923 montrose angus
birth year 1855
not sure if this is your john only the birth year lines up and as joe
states there is no sign of him on the 1891 or 1901 census

ev
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: runningbear on Thursday 29 November 07 14:26 GMT (UK)
well spotted ev,

had not considered that john (1855) may have remarried...

see young david...

1901 census- 102 glasgow road, dumbartonshire

(in lodgings) david...age 26...ship carpenter

could this be him? if so you may to check for another marriage around 1892

1901 census- 16 hill place, montrose

john...age 46...ship carpenter...born arbuthnott
mary...age 42
james...age 16...flax spinner
mary helen g...age 14

need oor gadget tae work her magic spell....


Joe
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 29 November 07 15:02 GMT (UK)


(http://www.websmileys.com/sm/angels/ices_angel_g.gif)

John Stronner died 9 August, 1923, Royal Infirmary , aged 68. Widower of:

1 Jane Dunn
2 Mary Alexander

usual residence 51 Castle Street, Montrose

Father David Stronner, mill fireman and Susan, m.s. Roberts . Both deceased.
Informant - D Stronner, son

Gadget
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: ev on Thursday 29 November 07 15:08 GMT (UK)
you could be right joe

from SP
john stronner married mary alexander 1898 montrose angus
a remarriage for both of them ?


ev

ps we were right joe 8) 8)
thanks gadget
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 29 November 07 15:11 GMT (UK)
ev

Joe PMed me - the death cert gives the confirmation of this  :)

Gadget

I was outside getting cold so I missed most of this  :D
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: runningbear on Thursday 29 November 07 15:51 GMT (UK)
once again gadget, i tip my hat to you.

well done, confirms our thoughts.

well done ev, looks like our jim has a lot of info to digest.

jim, do you wish me to go back to the censuses to get more leaves for your tree?


Joe
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: Gadget on Thursday 29 November 07 16:04 GMT (UK)
I didn't do anything, joe :)

You and ev did the hard work. I just added the icing  :D

Gadget
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: runningbear on Thursday 29 November 07 16:32 GMT (UK)
hi jim,

wonder if you have this yet?


http://www.angus.gov.uk/history/libraries/montroselib.htm


Joe
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: runningbear on Thursday 29 November 07 16:34 GMT (UK)
hi gadget,

the cake is looking lovely  ;D ;D

Joe
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: Rowana on Thursday 29 November 07 18:59 GMT (UK)
Thanks folks !

This will take me a few days to digest all this information !

Is there any possibility that I might be able to go back any further, or are records just not available this far back?

I'm absolutely amazed with you folks have given me since I started on this quest. I'll never be able to repay you all.

Cheers
Jim
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: ev on Thursday 29 November 07 19:46 GMT (UK)
jim

you might get back a generation or two using the info.
joe found on the 1841 census
the parents on the 1841 census were relatively young so if their deaths
were after 1855 you should be able to obtain their death certs from
scotlandspeople
hopefully it should give mother & father on it(not always the case)
then if your lucky they might be on the igi with a marriage and any other
children
its important collect as much info. as you can on the lower generations
as even the smallest clue could help identify upper generations
i.e. naming patterns repeating themselves

happy hunting

ev
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: runningbear on Thursday 29 November 07 20:53 GMT (UK)
hi jim,

susan robert, born 3/11/1816 arbuthnott, daughter of william and mary valentine, william and mary married in arbuthnott 1803.

1841 census- loanhead, kincardineshire

william...age 70...farmer
mary...age 65
william...age 30

1851 census- west loanhead, kincardineshire

william..age 81...farmer...born fourdon c1770
mary...age 78...born lochlee c1773
jane..age 36
jane stronner...age 10...grand-daughter...born arbuthnott

Joe
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: Rowana on Thursday 29 November 07 20:55 GMT (UK)
Thanks again ev.

The name thing can be useful, but sometimes confusing as well !

For instance, my Mother was a Gove. Her father was Munro Gove. He was the second son of Andrew Gove, the eldest son being Andrew Gove. Now Andrew Gove, the father above, was the eldest son of, you've guessed it, Andrew Gove.

Now Munro Gove calls his eldest son Munro Gove, and his second son Andrew Gove!

Are you still with me?

It took me ages to sort out the generations with this lot, but I'm hopefull of one thing - The eldest Andrew died in 1902 age 89, the second Andrew died in 1931 age 90, Munro died about 1952 age 80, my Mother died in 2000 age 89, so that gives me another 30 years or so !

Cheers
Jim

Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: Rowana on Thursday 29 November 07 21:04 GMT (UK)
Thanks Joe,

Sorry if this has got a bit disjointed. I was replying to ev when your post arrived.

Where on earth did you get this information?  I need to start to try and find things out for myself, and not put you to all this trouble on my behalf.  It's very much appreciated, though.

Cheers
Jim
Title: Re: John Stronner - Montrose
Post by: ev on Thursday 29 November 07 22:16 GMT (UK)
jim

sit down and put this family together to your own satisfaction
it only takes one mistake to cut down a whole branch
its your tree and we are here to help
do you have a computer progam that can take the info. we have found
i have a genpro program that builds a simple tree in black & white
but i believe this is no longer free on the net
or even take a bit of paper and do a box diagram with parents and
children
its amazing how quick a tree will stick in your head when you see it
on paper and how any errors will show like a sore thumb
the information that you have been given would normally take someone
starting out about 2 weeks to find
any questions you know where to come

ev :)

ps one step at a time and don't be afraid to ask stupid question
     we have all been there
Title: Gove Montrose
Post by: Al et al on Sunday 20 July 08 12:07 BST (UK)
Hi folks, I am researching my husband's family tree. he is from Montrose. His maternal grandparents are David Gove b 30 Jan 1904 and Isabella Wallace Christieson b Upper Dysart 1905.

David Gove's parents: Alexander Gove 1866 and Jane Duguid 1867.
Isabella's - David christieson (son of James C and Helen Wilson) and Rachel wallace (james w and Violet stephen).

Can anyone help me follow up the christieson/wilson and Gove/Duguid lines?

Thanks so much, Alisan