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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: suemuffy on Tuesday 27 November 07 11:20 GMT (UK)
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Would someone kindly look up Thomas Rimmer c1858 and wife Margery c1861 with daughter Alice c1879, all born Ainsdale. They were living in Formby in 1881 but moved to Toxteth Park.
They also had children William, James, Thomas, Lewis, George, Margery and Florence.
Thank you
Sue
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1891 RG12/2902 Folio 130 page 39 Liverpool Lancashire
Furlong Street
10 Wallasey Buildings
Thomas Rimmer age 32 Carter born Ainsdale Lanc
Margery wife age 29 born Aisdale Lanc
Alice Alies? dau age 11 Ainsdale
James son age 9 Ainsdale
Wm Lewis son age 7 Ainsdale
Mary dau age 5 Liverpool
Margery dau age 3 Liverpool
Thomas son age 1 Liverpool
Pam
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1901 Rg13/3430 folio 18 page 27 Toxteth Park Lancashire
12 Haylock Road
Thomas Rimmer age 42 Quay carter born Ainsdale
Margery transcribed Margaret age 39 Ainsdale
James son age 19 press machine minder Ainsdale
William Lewis son age 17 Tinsmiths appr Ainsdale
Mary dau age 15 Paper bag marker Liverpool
Margery dau age 13 Liverpool
Thomas son age 11 Liverpool
Lewis son age 4 Liverpool
Florence dau age 11 months Liverpool
Pam
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Is this their marriage
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1879
RIMMER Thomas FORMBY Margery Walton, St. Mary Liverpool 2012WD/11/106
www.lancashirebmd.org.uk
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1871 census Liverpool Rd Formby
Lewis Formby 45 b Whalley - ag labourer
Margery Formby 55 b Ainsdale
Margery Formby 9 b Ainsdale
There are 2 Rimmer families on the same page but neither have a son Thomas
1861 census
Lewis Formby 40 b ITALY??
Margery Formby 45 Ainsdale
Ellen Formby 12 ditto
Margaret Formby 6 ditto
Mary Formby 3 ditto
John Sawyer 19 step son b Formby
Living next door
James Rimmer 41 b Birkdale
Mary 39 Ainsdale
James 7 North Meols
William 5 Ainsdale
Thomas 2 Ainsdale
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1848
FORMBY * Lewis LLOYD Margery Toxteth Park, St. James Liverpool 2105TP/3/37
FORMBY * Lewis SAWYER Margery Toxteth Park, St. James Liverpool 2105TP/3/37
From the IGI www.familysearch.org
MARGERY LLOYD Marriages:
Spouse: THOMAS SAWER Marriage: 29 JUN 1835 Formby,
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1851 census confirms birthplace as Italy. All other b Ainsdale
Lewis Formby 30 b Italy
Margery Formby 35
Ellen Formby 2
John Sawyer 9
Thomas Sawyer 7
Rodger Sawyer 5
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Hi Carole and Pam,
Congratulations! in just a few short hours while I was out this afternoon you have confirmed a family legend from over 175 years ago.......The Baby on the Beach.........curious?
Let me enlighten you.
In the early 18th century an Italian ship left the port of Liverpool and was wrecked in Liverpool bay in a terrible storm There were no survivors. The following morning a person walking on Formby beach came across a tiny baby boy lying on the sand. A local family took pity on the orphaned infant and brought him up as their own, giving him the surname Formby, the place where he was found. He grew up a fine, dark haired young man and married a local girl, passing his name and complexion on to his children. We had no record of his christian name nor the family that took him in, just the story passed down.
I wonder where the name Lewis came from? perhaps the name of the person who found him? Is there an entry for him in 1841 before he married?
Thanks so much,
Sue
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Hi Sue
What a wonderful story but so sad as well.
I have looked on the 1841 but can't find him at the moment but will keep searching out of curiosity
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Thanks Carole, that would be appreciated, I wonder if I can find record of the ship, now I know what sort of date it went down?
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Hi Sue
I have looked under Lew** and For** and also at all Formby's in the Southport and surrounding areas but no luck. I wonder was he a mariner for a while?
Can I suggest you post a new message asking for an LRO lookup for his marriage to see if there are any clues on the cert (quote the story above and there will be no shortage of volunteers)
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Hi Carole,
Thanks for trying to find him. I've just found him on the 1881 census as LOUIS Formby, widower living as an indoor servant on a farm in Liverpool Rd, Formby. I thought it sad that he was on his own but I've found Thomas' parents a couple of doors away and a couple more away, Thomas and Margery with baby daughter and her sister Margaret and daughter. Looks as though they all work on that farm or nearby.
Where is it best to post the request and what is LRO?
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Sorry, didn't know he had gone to sea.
He died in 1898 aged 75, it says, not bad when he had such a rough start!
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Hi Sue
LRO is Liverpool Records Office and (I hope) they have the marriages for St James on microfilm so it's like buying the marriage cert without paying for it
You can post on this board but be sure to also include that the marriage took place in the June quarter as it helps narrow down the search
It was just a thought that he may have gone to sea pre-marriage as I couldn't find him on the 1841. I don't know for sure that he did as he was an agricultural labourer on all other censuses
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Deaths - Lewis Formby aged 75 Sept qtr 1898
District: Ormskirk Volume: 8b Page: 593
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1891 census for Lydiate
Richard Rimmer 36 ag lab
Mary Rimmer 34
Margery M Rimmer 10
Elizabeth Rimmer 4
Esther E Rimmer 6
James Rimmer 1 b Lydiate
Lewis Formby 69 father in law
Margaret Gill 72 widow - lodger
Lancashire Marriage indexes for the years: 1879
RIMMER Richard FORMBY Mary Walton, St. Mary Liverpool 2012WD/11/33
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Hi again Carole,
I will see if I can go and check myself in the next week or so.
Thanks for all your help!
Sue
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Hi Sue
I thought if I found Margery on the 1841, I may find Lewis in the same vicinity - I can't!!
I found Margery aged 20 working as an agricultural labourer in Ainsdale with 2 year old Peter and 2 MONTH old John - god help her. No sign of husband Thomas although IGI confirms Peter was their child
Further down on the same page is a Peter LLoyd aged 20 also an agric. lab. Possibly her brother
JOHN SAWER Christening: 30 OCT 1835 Formby Father: THOMAS SAWER Mother: MARGERY (Presume this John died)
PETER SAWER Christening: 18 AUG 1838 St Peter's Formby,
Father: THOMAS SAWER Mother: MARGERY
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Hi Carole,
Thanks for looking for Margery and Lewis, he is a real mystery.......
I went to the LRO yesterday. I found the marrriages of both their daughters Mary and Margery Formby in 1879 at St Mary's, Walton. Both grooms had the father James Rimmer so it is likely they were brothers.
I did manage to find the marriage of Lewis and Margery in St James, Toxteth (I wonder why they went all the way there from Formby?). Lewis' father was named as Thomas Formby, occupation - tailor, which rather threw me as I was expecting a different name. Either, coincidently, the family that took him in was named Formby or the vicar assumed that Thomas the tailor was his real father and therefore the same surname when in fact it was something else.
I have put a post on this morning to see if there is a Thomas Formby that matches in the 1841/51 census.
I was allowed to look through a list of shipwrecks off the Lancashire coast but there was no mention of an Italian ship. however there was a schooner (so we are not talking fishing boat here) which floundered in Formby channel on 23/11/1821 but name, cargo and destination unknown, suggesting no survivors. It's the right time scale but I may be jumping to conclusions.
Will keep on looking, any ideas let me know!
Regards
Sue
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This website; http://www.old-merseytimes.co.uk/Southportshipping.html
states the Brig Lascelles in 1822; vessel and crew all lost, between Formby Point and Southport.
Also the Brig ROSA in 1823, again all crew lost.
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Thank you Chorlton for your time and effort to look up this information.
I had already seen these ships in the Shipwrecks Index of the British Isles and discounted them, the unidentified one looked a possibility.
Despite the foreign sounding name, The Rosa was, I think, registered in Plymouth and The Lascelles was on her way back from Maranham, Brazil and I discounted it for some other reason.
I appreciate your interest.
Sue
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I was allowed to look through a list of shipwrecks off the Lancashire coast but there was no mention of an Italian ship. however there was a schooner (so we are not talking fishing boat here) which floundered in Formby channel on 23/11/1821 but name, cargo and destination unknown, suggesting no survivors. It's the right time scale but I may be jumping to conclusions.
This might be the schooner, the timing is about right.
Liverpool Mercury etc (Liverpool, England), Friday, November 30, 1821
On Saturday morning a schooner foundered in Formby Channel and all on board perished. She is supposed to be the `Lively ` from Dublin, a boat with Lively or Lovely of Cardigan on the stern having being washed up on Monday morning. Two of the bodies were also found in the course of the day.
Also early on Friday morning the sloop Cambridge from Ireland with pigs was driven on shore near theRocks and two of the crew drownded. .No vessels have been able to sail since Monday week.
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Yes, it is quite possible but I am surprised that the Liverpool record office Shipwrecks Index list of wrecks did not have the name when the local newspaper did. It is likely I had seen the report of this Welsh vessel and discounted it as I was looking for a foreign registered ship, there were a number of wrecks in that same week. Of course we don't know if this Italian seaman/officer was actually on a Italian ship, mariners took ships from different countries on a regular basis.
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Hi,
I have been doing some family history research and I was delighted to find that Sue's family also had a myth about Mr Formby. Therefore, I would like to pass on the information that has been handed down through the generations on my side. Our version of Mr Formby's story is as follows:
He was found as a young man wondering on Formby beach after a supposed shipwreck. He spoke no English, just Italian. He had no idea what had happened to him, where he came from, or who he was really- it was supposedly a case of amnesia. He soon settled in the area and was named after the beach he was found on, hence Mr Formby, he found work and got married.
Over the years he learnt to speak English but he refused to learn how to read and write it- he'd always get someone else to read the newspaper to him. The story goes that after many years when he was much older, some Officials wanted to speak to him but he refused to engage with them and he 'played dumb'. I note on one census he has been ticked as being "blind, deaf or dumb'. I wonder if this could perhaps offer an explanation as to why he never learnt to read or write English, or whether this was because he supposedly had amnesia, or if he was faking it/hiding something.
His name was pronounced 'Loo-eee' like the Central European name 'Louis', which could explain why the spelling in one census is different and the name was passed down for a few generations. But we've always referred to him as Mr Formby.
If he is the person listed as 'Lewis Workhouse' in the 1841 census, the approximate age of 15 would fit our version of his life as being a young man. As for the father named on his marriage certificate, we strongly believe that this is a lie but there ut cannot be proven or disproven.
One family rumour is that he was a stowaway on board a ship that got into trouble off the coast of Formby. Another is that he was wanted for something in Italy so left and went on the run. Obviously over the generations the story could have changed and/or been exaggerated so we'll never know what truely happened. Of course, Sue's version could be closer to the truth.
It's at moments like this that I wish I had a time machine so I could go back and find out.