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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Bedfordshire => Topic started by: Mobo on Friday 31 December 04 11:45 GMT (UK)
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Did you know that Pavenham was famous for osier weaving and rush plaiting, eventually becoming the mat-making centre of England during the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries. In fact, it was just a handful of families who were responsible for this phenomena at the time. The Morris's, Lovell’s, Hipwell’s and Ball’s.
Interestingly, in settlement papers of 1706 we see "Thomas Morris - matmaker, wife Ann, and son Alexander, of St Sepulcre, London" being accepted back into the village.
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Thank you for that, I have MORRIS ancestors for Pavenham.
Interestingly, there is a Wm HIPWELL on the Muster list of 4 June 1831 from Pavenham
James MORRIS was a 51 year old matmaker in Pavenham with three children still under 10 in 1803 when he volunteered for National Defence.
I dont know about hats [I thought that was Luton] but I expect the osiers were used for hats aswell as rush matting. It was very hard work harvesting them I should think.
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1803 National Defence:
There was also a Will BALL who was a 46 year ols matmaker with 5 children under 10...infact there 11 matmakers on the list in Pavenham
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Hi cathy !
So you too have MORRIS ancestors in Pavenham - we are probably connected then - you should visit my website (see my signature below) and see for yourself. I don't have a James born circa 1752, do you know who his father was ?
You will see that my Adam MORRIS, appears in the Bedfordshire Muster Volunteer List of 1803, along with brother Henry.
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No I dont have Adam & Henry MORRIS on the 1803, but I only have the list from the book that was edited by Nigel LUTT.
My earliest MORRIS was Thomas..he was born c 1789 and married a girl from Elstow and settled to raise his family in Kempston just west of Bedford.
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Well, I have a Thomas MORRIS b. February 3, 1788 Pavenham, to WILLIAM MORRIS, b.1764 Pavenham, and ANN LEVITT, b. 1765 in Willington.
Any connection ??
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That sounds rather like him, my Thomas MORRIS, born in Pavenham, is in Kempston in 1851 aged 62 with his second wife.
His youngest child, Emily, died young in 1854 -aged 26 - after having had just one child [Rosa MANTON was born in 1852].
Emily's daughter, Rosa MANTON, was raised by her father's sister - her father seems to have disappeared after his wife died. I don't know what happened to him [James MANTON].
So I don't know much about that branch [MORRIS/MANTON] at all, I don't even have a photo of Emily's daughter [Rosa was my gt gt grandmother and she lived until 1920].
My grand father [b 1896] used to speak of her but he knew nothing about that branch of his family either although he knew a lot about other branches of his family. He knew about Emily MORRIS-MANTON but not of the Pavenham connection.
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Well the only way to know for certain is to find the marriage of Thomas & his second wife,then you can send for a copy of the Marriage Certificate. This will show you Thomas's father's name, and if it is William, then there's every chance it could be him. What was the name of his second wife ? (you didn't say)
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I have dug out some info from the IGI, which could well be your Thomas, his first wife Hannah & children, and his second wife Eliza & son.
Marriage of Thomas MORRIS & Hannah CHURCH
8 Sep 1808, Elstow, Beds (Elstow is only 2 miles from Kempston)
Bapt. of children to Thomas Morris & Hannah Church at Elstow, Beds
Mary 19 Mar 1809
Sarah 7 Oct 1810
Bapt. Of children to Thomas Morris & Hannah ? at All Saints, Kempston, Beds
William 26 Mar 1815
Ann 29 Nov 1816 ]
Elizabeth 29 Nov 1816 ] Twins
Jane 3 Jun 1821
Thomas 2 Apr 1826
Emily 4 May 1828
John 9 Feb 1830
Marriage of Thomas MORRIS and Eliza (FOLKES) (b.1827, Kempston), 8 Feb 1849, All Saints, Kempston, Beds
Bapt of child to Thomas Morris & Eliza ? at All Saints, Kempston, Beds
James 24 July 1849
I couldn't find the death of a Hannah Morris, but, obviously, it would have been between 1830-1849
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??? ??? ???
On the other hand - the marriage of Thomas MORRIS to Eliza FOLKES, could well have been Thomas & Hannah's son, born 1828
It's all guess work until I know who Thomas's wife was, on the 1851 Census ??
??? ???
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Thank you for that..I have added what I have on my tree:
Bapt. Of children to Thomas Morris & Hannah ? at All Saints, Kempston, Beds
Mary, 1808 [b Elstow] m Charles WHITBREAD
Thomas 1811[Elstow?] m Eliza FOLKS
Edith 1813 [Elstow?]...
William 26 Mar 1815 m Mary KING
Ann 29 Nov 1816 I don't have her!
Elizabeth 29 Nov 1816 I don't have her!
Fed 1818....
Jane 3 Jun 1821 m Francis ODELL
Sophia 1818 m William SHARP
Thomas 2 Apr 1826 I don't have him!
Emily 4 May 1828 m James MANTON
John 9 Feb 1830 I don't have him!
My Emily MORRIS d aged 32 leaving a baby girl [my gt gt grandmother] who was raised by her eldest sister Mary MORRIS [and her husband Charles WHITBREAD]. Emily's husband, James MANTON, seems to have 'vanished' after Emily died.
The tree is at:
http://tribalpages.com/tribes/cathybeds
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Hi Cathy !
It was such a long time ago since I gave you the MORRIS info - I had to put my thinking cap on then dig out my papersNow ... lets see, where were we... oh yes !
Firstly, you say the Thomas MORRIS who married Eliza FOLKES in 1849, was the son of Thomas MORRIS & Hannah CHURCH, born in 1811 - (which would make him 38 at the time of his marriage). As I have a Thomas born to Thomas & Hannah in 1826, this one would seem the liklier of the two, (being 23 at the time of his marriage). As we know, Thomas & Hannah could easily have had a son Thomas who died, giving a later child the same name. Cathy do you actually have documentation showing Thomas's age ??
I ask this, as I'd like to add your info to my ' tree' but I can't without the right info.
Interestingly the MORRIS's married into the CHURCH family on other occasions as you'll see from my website (see my signature below)
Another thing, Thomas MORRIS & Eliza FOULKES had a son James MORRIS bapt. 24 Jul 1849.
Attached is a photo of St Peter's Church, Pavenham.
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:) :) :) :)
The River Ouse at the bottom of Mill Lane in Pavenham, had always been a handy source of rushes which were the raw material for mat making. However, when the industry took off in the 1840's, it did not produce enough for the demand, so gangs of rush-cutters were sent out in midsummer to camp along the further reaches of it and the River Nene, where a standing crop had been bought in. These men nicknamed ‘Ousiers’ would work for weeks, waist deep in water, cutting and dressing the rushes, only able to dry their clothes at night.
When their harvest was half dry they would cart it home to the women, who would spread the rushes on the floor, sort them into size and make up bundles of 30 to 40 inches round. These would be sold to coopers, matmakers, chairmakers, and the home workshops for hassocks, horse-collars and rush-baskets.
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Hi Cathy !
It was such a long time ago since I gave you the MORRIS info - I had to put my thinking cap on then dig out my papers.
Now ... lets see, where were we... oh yes !
Firstly, you say the Thomas MORRIS who married Eliza FOLKES in 1849, was the son of Thomas MORRIS & Hannah CHURCH, born in 1811 - (which would make him 38 at the time of his marriage). As I have a Thomas born to Thomas & Hannah in 1826, this one would seem the liklier of the two, (being 23 at the time of his marriage). As we know, Thomas & Hannah could easily have had a son Thomas who died, giving a later child the same name. Cathy do you actually have documentation showing Thomas's age ??
I ask this, as I'd like to add your info to my ' tree' but I can't without the right info.
Interestingly the MORRIS's married into the CHURCH family on other occasions as you'll see from my website (see my signature below)
Another thing, Thomas MORRIS & Eliza FOULKES had a son James MORRIS bapt. 24 Jul 1849.
Attached is a photo of St Peter's Church, Pavenham.
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I think you may be right - re Thomas MORRIS..could the first Thomas have died?
I am only sure about 'my' Emily MORRIS [gt gt gt grandmother - m James MANTON] and her sister Mary MORRIS [m Chas WHITBREAD] because Mary raised Emily's baby [Rosa] . The baby was Rosa who died in 1920 - I have no photo of her [but she was my gt gt grandmother].
Emily AMES, Rosa's daughter, went mad in her later years and was sent to the asylum [but my grandad bought her home to Kempston to die]. That whole branch seems to have had more than their fair share of sadness.
cathy
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;) ;) ;)
I think we'll assume it was the later Thomas who married Eliza Foulkes - but I wont add them to my tree until parish records can verifiy those I found on the IGI
Cheers
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Hi Cathy
I have now verified these IGI records, and have added them to my MORRIS 'tree'' - to see them, click on my website below.
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You have been researching hard to gather all this information together...it is a great website!
x
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Thanks very much Cathy - it's all been part of the fun
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I read with interest the correspondence re Eliza Folkes and Thomas Morris as I am a descendent of these people. Their daughter Louisa b 1855 ish married Edwin Martin my great grandfather 15 March 1875 at Stotfold. Eliza died sometime between 1861 and 1881 by which time Thomas was publican at the Bird in Hand, Stondon. I'd be grateful to have any information you can provide re the earleir generations of the family
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Hello
I have this couple on my tree [Thos MORRIS & Eliza FOLKS] can you have a look-see if my data is correct if you have a moment? I have filled in most of the marriages but not the children...
Thomas had a [youngest] sister [Emily] who died as a result of childbirth complications - and I am descended from that branch.
http://www1.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=cathybeds&view=0&pid=155&rand=89190
See what you think
cath
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Sorry Purr and Cathy
I recently changed my e-mail address and somehow never got these messages. Anyway, here is what I have on Thomas Morris & Hannah Church and Thomas Morris & Eliza Foulkes. They're all on my website (see profile below).
THOMAS MORRIS was born February 3, 1788 in Pavenham, Beds. He married (1) HANNAH CHURCH September 8, 1808 in Elstow, Beds. She was born 1790. He married (2) SARAH 1845. He appears on the 1851 Census with 2nd wife Sarah
Children were:
Mary Morris, b. March 19, 1809, Elstow, Beds; m. Charles Whitbread.
Sarah Morris, b. October 7, 1810, Elstow, Beds.
Thomas Morris, b. 1811.
Edith Morris, b. 1813.
William Morris, b. March 26, 1815, Kempston, Beds; m. Mary King.
Ann Morris (twin), b. November 29, 1816, Kempston, Beds.
Elizabeth Morris (twin), b. November 29, 1816, Kempston, Beds.
Fred Morris, b. 1818, Kempston, Beds.
Sophia Morris, b. 1819, Kempston, Beds; m. William Sharp.
Jane Morris, b. June 3, 1821, Kempston, Beds; m. Francis Odell.
Thomas Morris, b. April 2, 1826, Kempston, Beds.
Emily Morris, b. May 4, 1828, Kempston, Beds; m. James Manton.
John Morris, b. February 9, 1830, Kempston, Beds.
THOMAS MORRIS was born April 2, 1826 in Kempston, Beds. He married ELIZABETH FOULKES February 8, 1849 in Kempston, Beds.
Child was:
James Morris, b. July 24, 1849, Kempston, Beds.
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Many thanks
I am from the MORRIS/MANTON branch of the tree - Emily died young & her daughter [Rosa MANTON] was raised by the WHITBREADss...........
Do you have any info about James MANTON? He seems to have 'dissapeared' off the geneolgical rador after his wife died? He may have remarried .....
http://www1.tribalpages.com/tribe/browse?userid=cathybeds&x=12&y=5&rand=554937809
x cathy x
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:o :o :o
Sorry Purr and Cathy
I recently changed my e-mail address and somehow never got these messages. Anyway, here is what I have on Thomas Morris & Hannah Church and Thomas Morris & Eliza Foulkes. They're all on my website (see profile below).
THOMAS MORRIS was born February 3, 1788 in Pavenham, Beds. He married (1) HANNAH CHURCH September 8, 1808 in Elstow, Beds. She was born 1790. He married (2) SARAH 1845. He appears on the 1851 Census with 2nd wife Sarah
Children were:
Mary Morris, b. March 19, 1809, Elstow, Beds; m. Charles Whitbread.
Sarah Morris, b. October 7, 1810, Elstow, Beds.
Thomas Morris, b. 1811.
Edith Morris, b. 1813.
William Morris, b. March 26, 1815, Kempston, Beds; m. Mary King.
Ann Morris (twin), b. November 29, 1816, Kempston, Beds.
Elizabeth Morris (twin), b. November 29, 1816, Kempston, Beds.
Fred Morris, b. 1818, Kempston, Beds.
Sophia Morris, b. 1819, Kempston, Beds; m. William Sharp.
Jane Morris, b. June 3, 1821, Kempston, Beds; m. Francis Odell.
Thomas Morris, b. April 2, 1826, Kempston, Beds.
Emily Morris, b. May 4, 1828, Kempston, Beds; m. James Manton.
John Morris, b. February 9, 1830, Kempston, Beds.
THOMAS MORRIS was born April 2, 1826 in Kempston, Beds. He married ELIZABETH FOULKES February 8, 1849 in Kempston, Beds.
Child was:
James Morris, b. July 24, 1849, Kempston, Beds.
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mobo
You never gave your website details- so how on earth can I look anything up?
cathu
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Hi Cathy
Sorry I know nothing about James MANTON - and here is my website address (which appears on my profile at the bottom of this page)
www.ag19pfalz36.plus.com
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Good grief!
What an impressive wesite & thanks again
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Lots of great information thanks very much. keep me busy while the SO is away to the pub! Did you know Thomas Morris was publican of Bird in Hand at Stondon? My dad used to got there to spend holidays with his Nana, Louisa Lucas (formerly Martin, nee Morris) when he was a little lad. Her second husband Walter Lucas took over the licence.