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Independent Islands => Isle of Man => Topic started by: Lizw on Saturday 24 November 07 06:38 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I've been trying to do some very lateral thinking to try & further some research into my Mother's family the Thomson's. Agnes Waugh Petrie married John Thomson (b. Scotland abt 1812) ( my gt gt grandfather) in 1869 and I wonder if her sister Isabel/Isabella married a Thomson & if she did was there a link between the 2 Thomson's. A little convoluted I know!
I wonder if some one would be willing to help me find an Isabella or Isabel Petrie who was found in the 1841 census living at Raggatt, Patrick Isle of Man with her family, that is mother Elizabeth (40), sisters Margaret(15), Agnes aged 10, Elizabeth(4), Isabella(3) and Christina(1) and brother David(14).
There is this is a possibility in the Free BMDs:
Births Jun 1838
Petrie Isabella W Derby 20 847
I would be very interested to find out if she married a Thomson. I did find an Isabella Petrie(b Liverpool 1838) who married on November 19 1868 in Hong Kong a photographer also a John Thomson from Scotland b. Edinburgh14/6/1837. Died 29/9/1921 .
Another sister, Margaret married a farmer on the Isle of Man, John Blyth of Ronaldsway House and Agnes was visiting her then in 1861 census.
I would be very grateful for any help you may be able to provide about the Petrie family and their connection with the Isle of Man.
many thanks
Liz
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this looks like the family in 1861:
1861
RG9/4412 ed1a folio 13 page 19
Sea View, Castle’n Rd., Braddan, Isle of Man
Peter Petrie head m 71 Lieut. Royal Navy ½ pay SCotland
Elizabeth “ wife m 60 Scotland
Isabella “ daur un 22 England
Christiana “ daur un 20 Isle of Man
Mary Arthur visitor un 20 gentleman’s daughter England
will have a look for other years
Looks like the HOng Kong connection is correct - here they are:
1851
HO107/2525 ed3 folio 433 page 22 & 23
Leece Lodge, Braddan, Isle of Man
Peter Petrie head m 61 Lieut. Royal Navy Scotland
Elizabeth “ wife m 50 Scotland
Elizabeth “ daur 14 England Liverpool
Christiana “ daur 10 Isle of Man
David “ son 8 Isle of Man
1871
RG10/5778 ed5 folio 121 page 29
Port St Mary House, Port St Mary, Isle of Man
Elizabeth Petrie head widow 70 annuitant Scotland
Isabel Thomson daur Mar 32 England
William P. “ grandson 1 Hong Kong
John N. “ grandson 4 months Isle of Man Rushen
Annie A. H. Sutherland grand niece unm 20 England
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This is fantastic!!
Wasn't it lucky Isabel was visiting her family!!
Thank you so much!
The photographer John Thomson was quite well known so I will try & follow him back to see if I can find any links.
Thank you so much for your help!!
I'm very grateful.
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look up Petrie in www.manxnotebook.com - eg
Petrie, David, born April 14th, 1827. Son of P. Petrie, R.N. The Raggatt, Peel, I.O.M.
Died Sept.10th, 1841, at K. W. C.
in KWC register
The Island was attractive for half-pay officers as cheap to live and also good school in KWC
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Many thanks Frances,
I had a quick look at the web site before work and it looks like a veritable gold mine! Thank you!.
I'm now wondering what K.W.C. stands for but I'm sure I'll find it as I investigate.
Thank you very much, for your help.
Liz
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King William's College (king billies to locals) - look under Castletown or education
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Ahh hah! I found Ronaldsway House is now where Ronaldsway airport is, and an old engraving showing KWC on the site also.
Thank you so much!
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Hello again,
Interestingly I found David Petrie as having been christened in Bo'ness as well, perhaps they took him back there for a family christening with his Mother's family? David's Mother was Elizabeth nee Grindlay who was born in Bo'ness.
Many thanks for all your help Frances.
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G'day Liz,
I am researching the shipwreck 'Lydia' at Port Fairy in 1847. The owner/master was Lt. Peter Petrie. His brother accompanied him.
I believe this maybe the same Peter Petrie listed here.
Could you please assist with any more info on this fellow and descendants ?
Regards,
Phil.
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Brian Lawson's list of IoM burials has several PETRIEs including:
PETRIE Peter, age 81, Braddan, 5 Oct 1870
PETRIE Elizabeth, age 73, Braddan, 18 Dec 1873
Go to:
http://www.iomfhs.im/
and
CLICK on RESEARCH
JAP
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Hi Jap
Thank you so much. Those dates are very helpful.
The IoM Family History web site looks great too - thank you so much for this.
kind regards
Liz
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Hi Phil,
I don't have siblings for Peter Petrie yet, mostly just because I have been looking at other family lines trying to concentrate on the Thomsons.
I do know Peter Petrie's parents were another Peter Petrie B 1757 and an Agnes Waugh b. 1765 they married on 27 Jun 1786 at Kinghorn, Fife.
I had only found one other son a David Petrie b in 1788 but he apparently (someone else's research) died in infancy later that year.
Could you tell me the name of the brother was that was on board the Lydia?
Many thanks
Liz
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Thanks to the hint about Peter Petrie from Phil - I have been busy looking into Peter Petrie who Captained the Drummore & Betsey amongst other ships which went out to Australia but couldn't prove it was my Peter Petrie.
I eventually found in a Times Article the evidence to put this Peter Petrie in Australian waters & fills in a lot of his history for me - so thank you Phil for he prompt.
The Times article was about the trial he was involved in (see below) but it explains how he had been at sea since 1803 & was in the Navy in 1807 where he passed from the rank of midshipman to Lieutenant during the war & "being without any influence to assist his advancement", he entered the merchant service in 1816 after retiring from the Navy on half pay . He was "some time a ship carpenter" in Liverpool but found it unprofitable and moved to the Isle of Man
The following article talks about the court case he was involved in:
The Maitland Mercury, and Hunter River General Advertiser Saturday 11 August 1855
Page 2
INSURANCE OF GOLD DUST.-At Liverpool assizes, on the 14th of April, Mr. Peter Petrie sued Mr. Ellis, a London underwriter, for his proportion of £3.200, insured by a Policy of Insurance on a box of Gold dust. The case was singular. Mr. Petrie bought a small vessel in 1852 to make a speculative voyage to Australia ; he made a good deal of money by selling goods and conveying passengers between Adelaide and Melbourne, and he also got something by a gold-digging trip ; when about to return to England, he wrote over for insurances to be effected here on the ship, cargo, and treasure. In the British Channel the weather was bad at night, and there was much shipping about ; to warn other vessels of his proximity, he burnt a blue light ; by some means a blue light in a box of lights in Mr. Petrie's cabin took fire ; a barrel of gunpowder was stowed there ; he thought this would explode ; he managed to hurl the burning light from the cabin, but other things had then caught fire ; amid the flames, he seized a box of gold-dust, hurried on deck, and orderedall bands to the boats. In attempting to enter one of these, he stumbled, and the box of gold fell into the sea. It seems that the fire in the cabin was then putout, the box of blue lights thrown overboard, and the ship was brought safely to port. Mr. Petrie lost his eyesight, by entering the cabin to save the gold. As the box had been thus lost on the voyage, he sought to recover its value from the insurers. Witnesses were called to support the story told by the plaintiff. ....The jury returned a verdict for the amount claimed.- Herald, Aug. 9.
I hope this is of interest Phil.
regards
Liz
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If you do not already know Peter Petrie was the Brother in Law of Baronet James Young Simpson who is known for the intoduction of using Chlroform during surgery. The Grindlay Simpson and Petrie families were therefor influential in West Lothian.
Peter Petrie is mentioned in several of Simpsons private papers and he had holidays in Isle of Mann.
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Hi
Many thanks. Yes I did know about James Simpson. I know little about the Grindlays though except for the census information, so I would be very grateful for any information you may be willing to share about them.
I found that Bo'ness where the children of Walter & Margaret were born was also where my John Thomson's first wife was born so the families may have known each other before arriving in Liverpool (?) My John Thomson (the sugar refiner as opposed to the photographer) was from Aberdeenshire originally but worked in the West Indies & India before settling in Lancashire
I did find out Peter Petrie had gone to sea as a young boy in 1803 (& joined the navy in 1807) but being "without any influence" couldn't rise beyond the rank of Lieutenant, so he joined the merchant service in 1816 after retiring from the navy on half pay ( from an Article in The Times, Thursday, Aug 28, 1856; pg. 12). I'm not sure when they moved to the Isle of Man but it must have been before 1827 because the son David was born there in 1827 but they travelled to Bo'ness to have him christened.
Thank you very much for your interest.
Liz
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hi liz
Here is what I have.
Peter Petrie marries Agnes 27 JUN 1786 Kinghorn, Fife
Agnes dies 4 May 1828 Burrowstoness (Edinburgh advertiser)
Walter Grindlay marries Margaret Scott 13 Feb 1796 Boness West Lothian.
Children
Elizabeth Christening: 04 JUL 1800 Bo'Ness, West Lothian
Isabella Christening: 07 SEP 1803 Bo'Ness, West Lothian
Walter : 01 NOV 1805 Bo'Ness, West Lothian
Margaret FemaleChristening: 28 JAN 1808 Bo'Ness, West Lothian
Wilhelmina Female Christening: 15 JUN 1810 Bo'Ness, West Lothian
Janet Christening: 04 MAR 1812 Bo'Ness, West Lothian DIED KILLIN PERTH 1870.
Helen Christening: 06 JUN 1814 Bo'Ness, West Lothian
Davina Female Christening: 25 DEC 1816 Bo'Ness, West Lothian
Richard Christening: 08 JUL 1818 Bo'Ness, West Lothian
Jamima Christening: 04 SEP 1820 Bo'Ness, West Lothian
Their son Walter shows up on the 1881 Census in Isle of Man at 54 Derby Street Onchan.
Walter Grindlay head of House age 75 born Scotland retired ship owner.
Maria J Grindlay wife age 60 born Cape Town South Africa
Margaret Grindlay Daughter born Liverpool.
Admiralty record show Peter Petrie
Born : on 14 October 1789.
He first went to sea in the Merchant Service.
Entered the Navy : on 16 November 1807, as a Volunteer First Class.
Examination : on 5 January 1814 (PRO ADM 6/112/183, ADM 107/46/33-34).
Lieutenant : on 30 July 1816.
Reserve Half-pay
Lieutenant : on 28 July 1851.
Grindlays move to Liverpool?
We know the Grindlays are in Boness 1820( Jamima’s birth) and Agnes Petrie was born in Liverpool 1831 (see grindlay 1851 census) So this narrows it down to 10 years.
From the old parish records Peter petrie and Elizabeth Grindlay children are( some of them are missing from these records.) but the first David was born in Scotland 1827.
Peter Christening: 28 NOV 1819 Bo'Ness, West Lothian, Scotland
Walter Male Christening: 21 NOV 1821 Bo'Ness, West Lothian, Scotland
David Christening: 30 APR 1827 Bo'Ness, West Lothian, Scotland
Christina Christening: 20 NOV 1844 Patrick, Isle Of Man, England
David Male Christening: 20 NOV 1844 Patrick, Isle Of Man, England
That would bring it down to 4 years. 1827 (David born Scotland) to 1831 (Agnes born Liverpool) for the Petries to move. This is further narrowed as john Simpson is writing to Mr Grindlay in Liverpool in 1830 asking for a sureons position on board a ship for JYS.
Regards
Tom
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Are you still looking for information about Isobel Petrie. I am doing some research on John Thomson, her husband. The information already posted has been useful to me. Thanks
Jim