RootsChat.Com
Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Monmouthshire => Topic started by: fluffnco on Thursday 30 December 04 20:38 GMT (UK)
-
My great Grandmother was called Beatrice Davies before her marriage in 1903 to Alfred William Thomson in St Pancras Middlesex. She was born in 1881 but I have been unable to obtain a correct birth certificate as yet. Her father was listed as Matthew Davies Occ: coalminer.
My mum seems to vaguely remember someone saying that Beatrice was welsh but lived all her life in London. I've searched census for Beatrice and her father in Middlesex but no signs of him. A search of freebmd showed up a matthew Davies born c 1850 in Blaenavon, Monmouthshire.
Can anyone help me with this wall that is rapidly appearing please? Anyone have a Matthew Davies in their family tree or anyone who remembers coming across a Matthew Davies and family any where? I'd be really greatful for any help in locating him.
thanks so much in advance
Del
-
HI
This could be your Matthew Davies in the 1881 census:
RG11/5246 Fol 30 Page 27
Address: 25 Victoria Road, Ebbw Vale
Matthew Davies 33 H Coal Miner b. Blaenavon, Monmouthshire
Eliza Davies 32 W b. Ebbw Vale, Monmouthshire
Harriet Davies 5 D b. Ebbw Vale
David Davies 4 S b. Ebbw Vale
Margaret E Davies 1 D b. Ebbw Vale
Could find no reference to this family in the 1891 Monmouthshire census. Nor could I find a Matthew Davies born Blaenavon in the 1871 census.
Good Luck
pritch
-
Thank you very much for that piece of census info. At last I may be getting some where :D
Del
-
By my reckoning if he was 33 at the time of the 1881 census then he'd have been born sometime around 1848 give or take a year. I'll check freebdm and see if I can come up with his birth :)
thanks again
Del
-
Hi Del
Regarding Beatrice Davies birth certificate, found this:
Beatrice Davies Bedwellty March 1882 Vol. 11a Page 115
You said she was born in 1881 so the above fits if she was born late 1881 and the birth registered early 1882. She was the only Beatrice Davies born Bedwellty in the early 1880's that I could find.
best
pritch
-
Hi Pritch
Thank you for the birth certificate details. I'll send off for that straight away and keep my fingers etc firmly crossed. I would never have realised that Bedwelty was connected to Ebbw Vale or even Monmouthshire.
you said you couldn't find anything in 1891 for matthew and the family. I'm just wondering if he died in a coalmining disaster between the two census which would mean only eliza and the children would be on the 1891 census. I've done a little searching online and found a Matthew Davies who was killed in a coalmining incident in Myrthyr Tydfil(sp?).
Do you have access to that area for 1891 and could I be very cheeky and ask if you might do a search for his widow and family in that area for me. Beatrice should also show up on the 1891 census if it's the right family.
Thanking you so much in advance for all your help
Adele
-
Hi Adele
I have done another search of the 1891 using Eliza Davies as the search name and lo and behold the Matthew Davies family are still in Ebbw Vale at the same address.
The bad news is there is still no sign of Beatrice Davies living with this family. The 1891 census gives:
Rg12/4358 44 12 25 Victoria Road, Ebbw Vale
Matthew Davies H 42 Hitcher at Colliery b. Monmouthshire
Eliza Davies W 42 b. Bedwelty
David Davies S 14 b. "
Marg Edith Davies D 11 b. "
Isaac Davies S 5 b. "
Thomas J. Jones Neph 18 Haulier b. "
I have done a search for Beatrice Davies in the census for Bedwelty and the only one I have come across of the right age (approx 10) is the daughter of a John and Elizabeth Davies living in the Tredegar area, which is only a few miles from Ebbw Vale. Both parents and Beatrice were born in Tredegar and John's occupation is Foreman at Iron Works.
So unfortunately the Matthew and Beatrice details do not match. I was pretty sure the birth index for Beatrice was the one you were searching for, I do hope I haven't sent you down the wrong path.
I will do a wider search in the census to see if I can come up with anything else and I will take a look for Matthew Davies in the birth indexes circa 1848. Meanwhile, if you require the details of the Davies family in Tredegar, let me know and I will post them.
best wishes
Steve
-
Hi Steve,
Many thanks for re running that search for me. Beatrices father is named as Matthew Davies Coalminer on her wedding certificate to my great grandfather Alfred William Thomson.
I wonder if she was living with a relative of the family and was mistakenly registered as a daughter instead of maybe a niece or grand daughter?
Could you post those details of the Tredegor family for me please.
The other thing of course is that the welsh link is a red herring and they were living else where in the country. This is not going to be an easy task. Oh how I wish there were family that I could contact for a copy of her birth certificate LOL
Thanks again for all your help. It's greatly appreciated
Adele
-
Hi Del
Here are the details of the Davies family in Tredegar 1891:
John Davies 42
Elizabeth Davies 43
Richard Davies 21
David J Davies 19
Mary A Davies 17
Eliza J Davies 15
Alfred Davies 12
Beatrice Davies 10
Thomas Davies 7
All born in Tredegar. Beatrice is listed as a daughter.
Also living with them was
Richard Davies Wid Brother Age 76 b. Baislech?
I also did a wider search for Beatrice in 81 and 91 census Wales and England but still couldn't connect to Matthew Davies. It seems that obtaining Beatrice's birth certificate is the key, knowing where she was born would be a big help. I'll let you know if I have any luck with Matthew's birth details.
Steve
-
Hi Adele
I have done another search of the 1891 using Eliza Davies as the search name and lo and behold the Matthew Davies family are still in Ebbw Vale at the same address.
The bad news is there is still no sign of Beatrice Davies living with this family. The 1891 census gives:
Rg12/4358 44 12 25 Victoria Road, Ebbw Vale
Matthew Davies H 42 Hitcher at Colliery b. Monmouthshire
Eliza Davies W 42 b. Bedwelty
David Davies S 14 b. "
Marg Edith Davies D 11 b. "
Isaac Davies S 5 b. "
Thomas J. Jones Neph 18 Haulier b. "
I have done a search for Beatrice Davies in the census for Bedwelty and the only one I have come across of the right age (approx 10) is the daughter of a John and Elizabeth Davies living in the Tredegar area, which is only a few miles from Ebbw Vale. Both parents and Beatrice were born in Tredegar and John's occupation is Foreman at Iron Works.
So unfortunately the Matthew and Beatrice details do not match. I was pretty sure the birth index for Beatrice was the one you were searching for, I do hope I haven't sent you down the wrong path.
I will do a wider search in the census to see if I can come up with anything else and I will take a look for Matthew Davies in the birth indexes circa 1848. Meanwhile, if you require the details of the Davies family in Tredegar, let me know and I will post them.
best wishes
Steve
I've noticed that Harriet is missing in the 1891 census of the family. She must be working some where and living in or maybe at a neighbours with her baby sister Beatrice perhaps ;)
I may have to pay for the GRO to search for her birth certificate as I have no other way of getting hold of a copy. What a bummer lol
Your help is greatly appreciated
Adele
-
Hi Del
Yes I noticed Harriet was missing in 1891, I too thought she might be working or living elsewhere. Sadly though, she may have died at an early age. There is a record of a Harriet Davies age 7 dying in Bedwellty in1882, the death registered in the June quarter.
Hope the GRO comes up trumps for you, you'll have to let me know when you finally get Beat's cert. I'm intrigued now, makes a change from trying to break down my own walls. :)
Steve
-
Hi Steve
I'm going to take a chance and send off for the certificate you mentioned above. If it's not Beatrices then I will ask the GRO to search for her. She's got to be in there some where ;)
It hadn't crossed my mind that Harriet may have died. I'll look up that death in bedwelty too and see if it's her.
Sure hope I'm not barking up someone elses tree ;)
Thanks for all your help and I'll certainly let you know what I find out :D
Del
-
Hi Del
Did some searching among the birth indexes for Matthew Davies. You said in an earlier post that you had found a record of him c. 1850 on freebmd so I did a check between 1847-51 on 1837online. During this five year period only three Matthew Davies births are recorded around south east Wales:
Merthyr Tydfil Sep 1848 Vol 26 Page 430
Merthyr Tydfil Dec 1849 Vol 26 Page 434
Newport (Mon) Mar 1851 Vol 26 Page 117
If as the 1881 census stated he was born in Blaenavon then I would have expected to find a registration recorded in Abergavenny, but these are the only three from around this area. What was the registration area for the record on freebmd? I know you cannot always take census info at face value, the family may have moved to Blaenavon when he was a young child and he may have well regarded it as his birth town, I have found this a few times tracing my own family. He's proving very elusive your Matthew Davies.
By the way the death index for Harriet Davies is:
Bedwelty June 1882 Vol 11A page 69
Any other help I can provide, please don't hesitate to ask. Good Luck :)
Best
Steve
-
The one that fitted his birth year was Mar Qtr 1848 Montgomery vol. 27 page 93.
I recieved an email from a friend over in australia who had run a search through 1891 census for my Beatrice and came up with these for me.
1891 Wales census
RG12/4361
Civil parish: Trevethin
Ecc Parish : Trevethin
Registration district:Pontypool
Sub-registration district: Pontypool
Folio: 68
Page: 19
21 North Road
John DAVIES Head Married 72 Engine Driver Monmouthshire, Pontypool
Elizabeth DAVIES Wife Married 72 Pembrokeshire
Beatrice DAVIES Grandaughter 11 Monmouthshire, Pontypool
1891 Wales census
RG12/4361
Civil parish: Trevethin
Ecc Parish : Trevethin
Registration district:Pontypool
Sub-registration district: Pontypool
Folio: 125
Page: 10
Freehold Farm
Herbert DAVIES Head Widower 56 Farmer Monmouthshire, Penalt
Maurie DAVIES Son Single 24 Blacksmith Glouc, St Georges
Arthur DAVIES Son Single 18 Farmers son Glouc, St Georges
Harriet Duffield Neice Single 28 Domestic Servant London
Edward Duffield Nephew Single 23 Ironworker London
Beatrice DAVIES Grandaughter 9 Scholar Chepstow, Monmouthshire
Lily Robins Grandaughter 7 Scholar Gloucestershire
Edward M Lewis Serv Single 14 Farm Servant Monmouthshire, Newport
1901 London census
RG13/105
Civil parish: St Marylebone
Ecc Parish : All Souls
Registration district:St Marylebone
Sub-registration district: All Souls
Folio: 7
Page: 6
30 Mortimer Street
Beatrice DAVIES Boarder Single 19 Waitress Glamorganshire, Cardiff
1901 Bershire census
RG13/1153
Civil parish: St Lawrence
Ecc Parish : St Lawrence
Registration district:Reading
Sub-registration district: St Giles
Folio: 33
Page: 5
21 Broad Street
Thomas Spindler Head Married 38 Bootmaker Bucks
Lydia A Spindler Wife Married 37 Glouc, Bristol
Gertrude M Spindler Daughter 10 Berks, Reading
Beatrice DAVIES Visitor Single 19 Chepstow, Monmouthshire
Albert J Maker Visitor Single 26 Tailor Devon
some of these look quite good prospects for her. Guess a lookup to see if any of these families had a matthew who fits the bill in previous census would be the order of the day. Proper slippery customers these Davies ;)
both of the 1891 Beatrices are around the right age which is a start LOL
Thank you very much for the info on births for Matthew and also harriets death entry details. If it proves to be my Harriet I will send for the cert. :)
Del
-
Hi Del
The Beatrice Davies born in Chepstow looks like an interesting connection. I notice she relatives from London living with the family in Trevethin in 1891 and she herself is living in London in 1901. I've tried to trace the Herbert Davies family for a connection to Matthew Davies in both the 1881 and 1871 census unsuccessfully so far.
The other family John and Elizabeth Davies are in the Pontypool area in 1881 and 1871. No Matthew Davies living with the family in either year. The odd thing about the 1881 record is that Beatrice is not listed, the family members are:
John Davies 62 Head
Elizabeth Davies 62 Wife
Agnes Davies 24 Daughter
Alice Davies 10months Granddaughter
So is it possible she could be Alice Beatrice or Beatrice Alice?
Regarding Matthew Davies it may be worthwhile to post a census lookup request on the Monmouthshire board. There may be a record in the Pontypool or Trevethin area in 1851/61 if he was born in Blaenavon. There are a few helpful people doing speedy lookups for 1851/61. I've had a few done myself and have always had a good and quick response.
Steve :)
-
Hi steve
You really are a star! I did a search for Matthew and Eliza(beth) on the Freebmd search site and found a Matthew Davies married to an Elizabeth JONES in Mar qtr 1872 11a 121 in Bedwelty, Monmouthshire
In the 1891 census run you did previously there is a nephew
Thomas J. Jones Neph 18 Haulier b. bedwelty
I'm wondering if maybe my Beatrice might be found with Elizabeth's parents although I haven't been successful yet at finding their names on the church of latter day saints site
The other thought I had was that Matthew and Beatrices mother weren't married and as Matthew is hard to find I did a general search for Matthew Davies in Monmouthshire on the familysearch site and came up with this little gem
Household:
Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability
John Nicholas JAMES Head M Male 48 Gellygaer, Glamorgan, Wales Platelayer
Rachel JAMES Wife M Female 60 Pontypool, Monmouth, England
Matthew DAVIES Stepson U Male 21 Tredegar, Monmouth, England Engine Tender
Rachel JAMES Daughter U Female 16 Tredegar, Monmouth, England Domestic Servant At Home
Benjamin EDMONDS Lodger U Male 61 Caerphilly, Glamorgan, Wales Engine Tender
~~~~~~~~
Source Information:
Dwelling 33 River Row
Census Place Bedwellty, Monmouth, Wales
Family History Library Film 1342262
Public Records Office Reference RG11
Piece / Folio 5243 / 104
Page Number 7
As I have no idea whether Beatrice had any older siblings it may well be that she was the first child and that Matthew married the mother after the birth. Going to make it hard to find the mum so I've sent off for that Beatrice born in Bedwelty and have everything crossed its her. Will let you know in due course if it is or not
Will be interesting to see what the mother's name is on the certificate when it arrives although that may be sometime given that a certificate I ordered prior to xmas has not turned up yet. :)
Del
-
Hi Del
Been burning the midnight oil I see :) Well done finding the marriage index for Matthew and Elizabeth, the certificate may prove interesting reading.
I've been doing a few more census searches for you. Checked the 1871/91 on Ancestry and I think I can safely say there are no Matthew Davies in Monmouthshire with a daughter Beatrice. I didn't check the 1881 as you have already done so on LDS.
Also did another search covering Monmouthshire 1881/91 for Beatrice Davies living with a Jones family and again had no hits. They really are an elusive lot these Davies.
As for the Matthew Davies you found in the 1881, he is also there in the 1871: RG10/5321 Fol 66 Page 6 Dwelling: Manmoel, Bedwellty
John Nicholas Jane Head 41 widower
Rachael Davies Housekeeper 49 widow
Ann Davies Daughter 20 single
Soloman Davies Son 17 single
Mary Susanah Davies Daughter 14
MATTHEW DAVIES Son 11
Rachael Davies Daughter 6
Benjamin Edwards Boarder 48 single
The occupations and place of birth same as 1881, the younger children were all born in Tredegar. All Rachael's children are enumerated as Davies. The handwriting isn't clear on the actual record but it does look like Jane, not James for John Nicholas.
Hope that certificate arrives sooner than later and contains some good news for you. I received one this morning that I ordered on Dec 8 (definitely didn't contain good news ???)
Best Wishes
Steve :D
-
Hope that certificate arrives sooner than later and contains some good news for you. I received one this morning that I ordered on Dec 8 (definitely didn't contain good news )
Hi Steve
sorry to hear you didn't get what you were hoping to. It's a real bummer when that happens :(
I did a search on the IgI for Rachel Davies and John James marriage going off the census for 1871 where they were both enumerated as being a widow and widower.I found a likely candidate in Dec Qtr of 1871 in Newport, Monmouthshire Vol: 11a Page: 386.
I would presume as they'd both been previously married they may have decided on a registry wedding. There is also a Francis Davies and a Edith Hawkins listed on the same page. Maybe Francis and Rachel were related in some way and had a double wedding? who knows.
So guess next step is a search for a Rachel Davies and hubby Davies plus children prior to 1871 in this area or near by. I'm presuming Matthews father was a coalminer and lost his life in the pit or due to some serious illness.
If this is my Matthew it makes his birth year 1860 so he should show up as a 1 year old or several months old in the 1861 census and I am presuming his father was alive around that time (boy I must surely have a shirlock in my family tree some where ;))
If I can help you in return for all the help you've given me Steve please don't hesitate to ask :)
Del
-
Thanks Del
Will keep an eye on your posts and if I came across anything else of help to you, will certainly let you know.
Best
Steve :)
-
Hi Del
Regarding Beatrice Davies birth certificate, found this:
Beatrice Davies Bedwellty March 1882 Vol. 11a Page 115
You said she was born in 1881 so the above fits if she was born late 1881 and the birth registered early 1882. She was the only Beatrice Davies born Bedwellty in the early 1880's that I could find.
best
pritch
Afraid that this Beatrice you found wasn't the right one :( Her father isn't matthew according to the GRO.
Ahh well Back to square one I guess lol
Darn relatives...nowt but trouble ;)
Del
-
That's a shame Del, I was really hoping you had found her at long last. As you say, keep on trying. Does get frustrating sometimes though doesn't it?
Steve :)
-
Well I was hoping I'd not have to spend any more money on this lady but guess I'm going to have to LOL. I'm going ot ring up the gro tomorrow and ask for a search to be done of 1881 to early 1882.
Hopefully they will find her for me. Can't be that many Beatrice Davies with a Matthew as a dad surely? (Famous last words I know)
Will let you know if I ever find her :)
Del
-
Hi Del
Referring to the ALICE IN 1881 who became BEATRICE
by 1991 I had a quick look at 1837 online
the following appears.
q/e DCEMBER 1879
BEATRICE ALICE DAVIES PONTYPOOL 11a 136
1901 0n line has an ALICE davies 21
born Pontypool in Paddington .
Rhys
-
Hi Del
Hope the GRO does it for you :) I'm still having no luck with my Richards family in Trevethin ??? So many missing records in that area. Found a few clues but nothing definite. Currently waiting on four certs from the GRO and one from Merthyr Tydfil where i'm trying to find the birth details of one MARY JONES! Talk about needles and haystacks. ::)
Had some luck with the Gloucester side of the family last week though, took a few bricks out of that wall. That cheered me up some.
Got my fingers crossed for you.
Steve :)
-
I don't know if this will help at all but here goes:
There was a Richard Davies (widower, brother, aged 76) mentioned earlier born in "Baislech". I don't think that a "Baislech" exists but that's how we pronounce "Bassaleg", a little village just outside Newport.
I checked the 1881 census and found him (?) living in Bridge Street, Bedwelty with a large family of "Morgans". It does give his birthplace as Bassaleg.
It might be wothwhile looking in this area.
Just to make it a bit more confusing the census says that it is Bedwellty, Monmouth, Wales but Bassaleg, Monmouth, England. There was some confusion about this for many years.
I hope that this has helped but, after reading it again, probably not. ???
-
ok guys here's an update which is a LOOOONG time in coming but was well worth the wait :D
I recently was contacted by a 1st cousin removed who told me that according to information given by his father and written down Beatrice was actually an Alice Beatrice DAVIES and that she may have been born in Kington Herefordshire. Having looked up this Alice Beatrice I duly sent off for the birth certificate asking the GRO to double check fathers name matthew DAVIES and voila!! I am now in receipt of my Greatgrandmothers birth certificate. She was born on the 29th May 1881 The Ryse, Lyonshall, Kington R.E.D ( if anyone has access to a jpg of this place i'd be totally thrilled) and her mother was a Susannah Davies formerly Carnel. I've now gone on to look for a possible marriage of Susannah Carnel and Matthew DAVIES and it appears they may have married in September 1874 in Bedwelty Monmouthshire.I had the right area but just hadn't got the right birth place so I'm thrilled to have got past this brick wall that has had me stumped for so long!! I've also found matthew and susannah in the 1901 census living in Bedwelty in a small hamlet called Blackwood at 30 The high street. There's no sign of Alice Beatrice but there are sisters Emma and Nellie and brothers George and Willie still at home.
Thanks many times over guys for all the researching you all did in order to help me. You're all fab! :D
Adele (aka Fluffnco)
-
Adele here they are in 1891 Main Road,Blackwood,Bedwellty
Monmouth.RG12 4360 Folio18 page 5.
Matthew Davies,Head,49,Coal Miner,Herefordshire.
Susanah,Wife,24,Ebbw Vale,Monmouth.
Emma,Dau,12,Ruis? Hereforshire.
Alice B,Dau,9,Ruis? Herefordshire.
Ellen,Dau,7?,Blackwood,Monmouth.
George,Son,4,Blackwood,Monmouth
Best Wishes Welsh Lady
-
Thank you SOOOO much Welshlady!!! Theres my greatgrandmother Alice!!!! yay! :D Also a sister Ellen who may be nellie on the 1901 census :)
Thank you once again. :D
Adele