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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: Modbury on Sunday 18 November 07 11:02 GMT (UK)

Title: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Modbury on Sunday 18 November 07 11:02 GMT (UK)
Looking for information on Daniel RATCLIFFE b abt 1801 River Kent so all the census material tell's us, he was a Papermaker. All info welcomed with source of material.

Many thanks.

Bernie
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Noycie on Sunday 18 November 07 14:09 GMT (UK)
Hi

I too am looking for Ratcliffe's in Kent.
I have a William Ratcliffe born 1873 Dover, Henry Ratcliffe born circa 1830-1836 in Eastry. Possible father John born circa 1800 in Goodnestone.
Please let me know if come across them.

Happy Hunting

Clare
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: BettyofKent on Sunday 18 November 07 14:42 GMT (UK)
Hi Bernie, welcome to Rootschat.

There are only two RATCLIFF Baptisms in River.
This one might be your Daniel's son.
6th Apr 1823 Daniel RATCLIFF 
Parents Daniel & Hester.  Papermaker.

One Marriage in River.
18th Apr 1818
Daniel RATCLIFF to Esther PAY
Witnesses: Rich. Pay & Mary Pay.

Betty



Looking for information on Daniel RATCLIFFE b abt 1801 River Kent so all the census material tell's us, he was a Papermaker. All info welcomed with source of material.

Many thanks.

Bernie
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Modbury on Sunday 18 November 07 15:33 GMT (UK)
Hi Betty,

Yes, there is a possible that Daniel married a Hester, but from the 1841 census he has Mary as his wife, maybe his 2nd ? living at Milton Kent, in the 1851 census Mary's birth place I cannot read ? but living at Charlton, then in the 1861 census he is living at Winchcombe Gloucestershire with Mary A b Hertfordshire, then in the 1871 census he is still at Winchcombe but with another wife called Alice b Winchcombe.
From the 1841 census the children of Daniel are Elizabeth b abt 1826, William b abt 1829, Sarah b abt 1836, Emma b abt 1839 then my gg/grandfather George b abt 1840 Milton which I have to get birth cert, I have his marriage cert and death cert's from Peterborough.

Daniel the son you mentioned maybe his son, but there is another Daniel RATCLIFF(E) b River around the same year 1801/05, I believe he stayed in the Kent area working as a labourer, more research needed, but this Daniel is not the one I am after as yet.

I shall be sending off for the birth cert for George b Milton 1840, if you should come across a death for a Hester then do please let me know.

Thanks Betty for a quick response to my posting.

Best Wishes
Bernie

Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Modbury on Sunday 18 November 07 15:35 GMT (UK)
I have made a note of your RATCLIFFE line Clare, just in case, if I should find anything I shall let you know.

Best Wishes
Bernie
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Valda on Saturday 24 November 07 14:22 GMT (UK)
Daniel's marriage to Alice would provide you with details about his father.

Marriages Jun 1863
HEYDEN  Alice     Winchcomb  6a 647   
RATCLIFF  Daniel     Winchcomb  6a 647   
RATCLIFFE  Daniel     Winchcomb  6a 647

Deaths Sep 1862   
Ratcliffe  Mary     Winchcomb  6a 185

Deaths Mar 1877
RATCLIFFE  Daniel  77  Winchcombe  6a 280

Deaths Mar 1882   
RATCLIFFE  Alice  75  Winchcomb  6a 273

Mary, Daniels' wife, gave her birthplace as what looks like High Wycombe Buckinghamshire (Wickum) on the 1851 census (High Wycombe was a papermaking area).

A possible marriage for the couple.

DANIEL RATCLIFF
MARY PAY 
Marriage:  17 DEC 1820   Saint James The Apostle, Dover, Kent

Regards

Valda
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Modbury on Saturday 24 November 07 15:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Valda,
Many thanks for your input, some I have found in the last couple of days.

I have sent for Daniel RATCLIFFE marriage cert thinking the same lines as you have regarding father's name which I think will be also Daniel !!. I have also sent for George RATCLIFFE birth cert b Milton Dec qtr 1840, I have entered the father being Daniel as there are a couple of George's registered for that year.
I also think that Alice HAYDEN that married Daniel in 1863 was also married to Thomas GREENING and also Alice maiden name is WOOLVIN, that is if my detective work is correct ?.

Yes, I think you maybe right with High Wycombe regarding Mary wife of Daniel in the 1851 census, more research needed.

Regarding the children of Daniel that went to Winchcombe I have found that Elizabeth may have married James FIT(T)ALL, Emma RATCLIFFE had a daughter called Fanny in 1858 then went onto marry George HART in 1861 Winchcombe, he died in 1870 and Emma went onto marry Charles CLAPTON 1878 Winchcombe. Ann Maria RATCLIFFE another daughter married James HART in 1866 Winchcombe, I think George's brother. Also Lucretia RATCLIFFE married James CLAYTON in 1872 Winchcombe, these I have to get more proof via certs or PR's to be 100% correct.

As there are more than a couple of Daniel RATCLIFF(E)'s in the area of Kent being born and married I shall await for Daniel's marriage cert to arrive before I start jumping the gun, but my thinking is that Daniel married Hester (Esther) PAY on the 18th April 1818, then she died maybe at childbirth ! then he went onto marry  Mary PAY on the 17th Dec 1820 which is the Mary we find in Winchcombe, but we shall see.

Best Wishes

Bernie
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Valda on Sunday 25 November 07 08:02 GMT (UK)
Bernie

there are also these (not child baptisms because they are Baptist - births) children of Daniel Ratcliffe and Hester.

MARY ANN RATLIF 
Birth:  16 NOV 1818   Baptist, Eythorne, Kent
Father:  DANIEL RATLIF   
Mother:  HESTER 

ELIZABETH RATCLIFFE   
Birth:  1827   Baptist, Eythorne, Kent
Father:  DANL. RATCLIFFE 
Mother:  HESTER 

Regards

Valda
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: jmp on Monday 17 May 10 22:26 BST (UK)
Bernie, have you got any further with your Ratcliff line. Its just that I think we may have a connection with my Ratcliff family. One of the boys Richard Belsey Ratcliff appears to have been baptised in River in 1805, parents John and Elizabeth

Let me know if you would like any information
Jackie ;)
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: HylaryK on Monday 02 August 10 16:53 BST (UK)
Hi

I have some Ratcliffe's in my tree - early 20th century. James Ratcliffe married a Barton. They had two daughters, Frances and Elsie. Elsie married Gordon Bunt. She was my godmother.

Hylary
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: jmp on Monday 02 August 10 17:02 BST (UK)
Hello Hylary,

There were quite a few Ratcliffe lines in Kent, some down around Dover, some near Ramsgate, others coming from Canterbury and others from the Isle of Sheppey area. Watch out for the change of name to Ratcliff without the e, it is often the same family and earlier on Ratley.

My line moved to Lowestoft in the mid 1800's with the fishing fleets, but some siblings remained in the Ramsgate area. Perhaps when you find the parents of James then we might be able to fit them in  ;D

Best wishes
Jackie ;)
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: lisingreece on Monday 02 August 10 21:46 BST (UK)
I too have Ratcliffes, Noycie, from Petham and Goodnestone, & Sholden moving later to Ash next Sandwich.
My line goes back to Thomas born 1771 in Goodnestone.

Lis
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: jmp on Monday 02 August 10 22:00 BST (UK)
Sorry I forgot the Goodnestone lot as well Liz ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: walkrightin on Friday 07 January 11 01:02 GMT (UK)
lisingreece, I think we may share ancestors!

I would love to send you a personal message, but have only just joined rootschat tonight and can't work out how to do it! If you do see this message at any time, please would you try sending me a personal message and then maybe I will be able to reply. I am reluctant to post my contact details on the public message board. Hope to get in touch with you soon :-)
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: lisingreece on Friday 07 January 11 06:13 GMT (UK)
Welcome to rootschat walkrightin.

For future reference to send personal messages (pm) go to the person's profile and there you will see how you can send a pm.

I am now going to send you a pm and we will be in touch.

This is an amazing site, where you are both, given help and are able to help in return.

Lis
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: casalguidi on Friday 07 January 11 08:18 GMT (UK)
Hi Walkrightin

Welcome to Rootschat

You will need to post on the boards here on Rootschat three times (so twice more) before the Rootschat personal message system is fully activated thus enabling you to both send and receive personal messages.

Casalguidi :)
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: HylaryK on Thursday 13 January 11 00:56 GMT (UK)
Hi

My Ratcliffes almost certainly from Dover. My main line, the Bartons, lived in Buckland-by-Dover in early 19th C, which had a paper mill, so it is all linking in!

Hylary
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: jmp on Thursday 13 January 11 01:02 GMT (UK)
My Ratcliffs seem to have been trolling about nearby Whitfield which of course is near Dover and Buckland around the early 1800's and then back up to Ash near Sandwich. Originally they were from the Canterbury area. When you manage to trace your Ratcliffes back let me know will you, we may well find a link  ;D
Jackie
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: HylaryK on Thursday 13 January 11 01:06 GMT (UK)
Thanks Jackie, will do.

Hylary
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: AJ100 on Monday 02 May 11 14:41 BST (UK)
Quite a lot of Ratcliffes in Sholden in the 19th century. John & Philadelphia were the main parents, later Jesse & Elizabeth and Henry & Sarah, amongst others. There were some in Deal too, but not nearly so many.
Will supply details if interested.

AJ
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: HylaryK on Tuesday 03 May 11 08:05 BST (UK)
Thanks AJ.
The name Ratcliffe didn't appear in my family until 20th century, when James Ratcliffe married into the family; so it is of passing interest, but not the main thrust of my research. If you have any connections with Bartons in the 19th century, that would be intriguing :)

Good luck with your research

Hylary
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: David Boulding on Tuesday 10 January 12 16:16 GMT (UK)
I have a family bible which mentions Daniel Ratcliff born 1815 died 1850 Bredgar. This appears to be the same family of (probably grandparents) John (d 1833 age 91) & Mary (d 1824 age 96)  Ratcliff.

There's a page about the Ratcliffs in the bible.

Daniel isn't a common or garden name so there may well be a link.

Is this of interest?
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: jmp on Tuesday 10 January 12 21:15 GMT (UK)
Oh yes please David, anything you have would be useful. I think it is a pretty extended family and most seem to be pretty longlived by the looks of it. My great grandfather Ratcliff lived into his 90's as well in the early1900's

Thank you very much for contacting us. I am always trying to get to the bottom of my Ratcliff line  and Im sure the others would appreciate anything you have in the bible :D

I look forward to hearing from you
Jackie  ;)
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: David Boulding on Tuesday 10 January 12 23:40 GMT (UK)
Hello Jackie

I tried to post the image but it was too large so send me your email to * and I'll send them direct.

If you can place where they were born it would be lovely esp. the first John who married Mary (probably Boulding).

It lists:

Mary Ratcliff departed this life 29th May 1824 aged 96 years
(I think Mary was nee Boulding though I've not found this marriage which I presume is pre 1754).

John Ratfcliff departed his life 3rd April 1833 Aged 91 years.
Richard Ratcliff was born'd December the 13th 1806 about five Oclock in the morning

Susan Ratcliff was born'd July 11 1808 About 11 Clock in the morning

Susanna Ratcliff my wife died Feb 7 1818 and was buried 14th Feb aged 34 years

John Ratcliff was born'd July 3rd about 4 Oclock after Noon ____ 1812

Daniel Ratcliff was born'd April 22nd 1815 About two or three Oclock in the after Noon.

Mary Ratcliff was born'd July 11 1816 about between Eight and None the morning

Elizabeth Stanley Ratcliff was born'd december 5t 1818 About three Oclock in the morning

Daniel Ratcliff Died January 19th 1850 between ten and eleven Oclock in the fore Noon. Buried att foot of his granmothers in Bredgar aged 34 yrs (I looked this up in the FreeBMD - area district Milton which looks right)

Richard Ratcliff died June 12 Aged 77 years in 1854. (I looked this up in the FreeBMD - again area district Milton as above)

Elizabth Ratcliff died April 1 1861 Aged 83 years (can't find this in the Free BMD)(*)

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Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: jmp on Tuesday 10 January 12 23:58 GMT (UK)
Hi David, can I suggest you remove your email address from the posting. Just go to the "modify" button on the left above your posting it will save the mods deleting your message and you getting spammed accidentally.

I will send you my email address through the messaging system, so watch out for a notification shortly

Many thanks
Jackie :D
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: AJ100 on Wednesday 11 January 12 15:19 GMT (UK)
Thanks AJ.
The name Ratcliffe didn't appear in my family until 20th century, when James Ratcliffe married into the family; so it is of passing interest, but not the main thrust of my research. If you have any connections with Bartons in the 19th century, that would be intriguing :)

Good luck with your research

Hylary
Hello Hylary
There were a few Bartons in Deal going back to late 1700's. If you have a name I can have a look.

Regards

AJ
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Bodhi on Saturday 28 January 12 22:04 GMT (UK)
Hi everyone

I am related to the Ratcliffe's of Ramsgate. I do not know what information others have but am happy to share what I have.

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: jmp on Saturday 28 January 12 23:26 GMT (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat Rich

Can I ask which Ratcliffs are you related to from Ramsgate, I am related to William son of William Ratcliff and Jane Kirby

Cheers
Jackie :D

Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Bodhi on Sunday 29 January 12 15:17 GMT (UK)
Thanks for your welcome Jackie.

I go back to George Ratcliff 1812 whose parents were Stephen and Mary (she a Marsh by birth).
I have some Williams too as his siblings- is one of them yours?

Cheers

Rich

Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Bodhi on Sunday 29 January 12 15:18 GMT (UK)
William 1809 St Laurence, Ramsgate
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: jmp on Sunday 29 January 12 17:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Rich, sorry no. As I understand it one of the descendants ( William?) of Stephen R and Mary Marsh went off to the States around this time and there are a lot of relatives out there. No doubt you have been in contact with them.

My Ratcliffes remained firmly fixed in Kent.  I have a William 1829 son of William and Jane Kirby who himself was born in Whitfield 1803 the son of John Ratcliff and wife Elizabeth Hammond of Ash. It got very confusing when I started off researching them with some saying the two families were related, but suffice to say I have not as yet come across any connection. I live in hope though  ;D

Jackie :D
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Bodhi on Sunday 29 January 12 17:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Jackie

Oh, that is a shame. So you have William who moved from Whitfield (nr Dover?) to Ramsgate?

I have not been in touch with the other folks who have Ratcliffe's in common. Can you pass my details onto anyone you are in contact with please?

Just for info my surnames are:

West, Fagg, Marsh, Ratcliffe, Arnold, Joad (would love to find someone else with Canterbury area Joads), Bennum, Bentley, Best, Boughton, Browning, Ester, Jarvest/jarvis, Keeler, Knott.

All the best

Rich
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: jmp on Sunday 29 January 12 17:37 GMT (UK)
Rich, I havent got any contacts for your branch I'm afraid, but if you search on Ancestry's public trees you will find an awful lot of people with your branch of the family on especially the American side ;)  Hope you manage to find some good contacts out there  ;)

BTW my John and Elizabeth Ratcliffe seem to have gone on a tour of every parish between Ash and Dover and back again having children in every little village they passed through, led me a merry dance they did  :o
Cheers
Jackie
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Bodhi on Sunday 29 January 12 18:31 GMT (UK)
Hi Jackie

A quick search on ancestry shows a Leach family tree and a Franklin tree that have an 1812 George Ratcliffe, although only the Leach tree shows the parents. I am not a paid member of ancestry and therefore cannot see the details of the Leach tree unfortunately.

Rich
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Modbury on Wednesday 18 July 12 17:32 BST (UK)
Follow up from my last post.

Daniel Ratcliff(e) (born abt 1801 River Kent) married Mary Ann BUDD on the 04 May 1828 at Harrow Middlesex by banns, and he states that he was a bachelor and Mary a spinster, I have a copy from the parish register, so the question is, how does Elizabeth Jane RATCLIFFE b 1825 fit in ?, unless Daniel was telling porkies when he married Mary in 1828. When Mary Ann died in 1862, Daniel went onto marry Alice HEYDEN a widow (maiden name WOOLVIN) on the 26th April 1863 at Winchcombe, Gloucestershire, he has his fathers name as Daniel RATCLIFFE a papermaker, from marriage cert, Alice has her fathers name down as Sarah WOOLVIN single women. My 2nd great grandfather George RATCLIFFE b 15th Oct 1840 Milton, Kent the son of Daniel Ratcliffe a papermaker, mother Mary RATCLIFFE nee BUDD, from birth cert. I think that I mentioned this before but Elizabeth Jane RATCLIFFE married James FITTAL in the Sept Qtr of 1847, registered in Dover, Kent. In the 1851 census Daniel RATCLIFFE b abt 1780 has his birth place as Charlton Kent and papermaker, living as parish relief, is living with Elizabeth and James. In the 1841 census there is a Daniel RATCLIFE b abt 1781 that is living in Hastingleigh, Kent, with Elizabeth STICKELS nee RATCLIFF (married George STICKELS 1808 Hastingleigh), could this be Daniel jnr father and brother to Elizabeth ?. So, I am still looking the birth etc of Daniel RATCLIFFE born 1801 River and Daniel RATCLIFFE b abt 1780 Charlton Kent ?.
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: redtonyt on Wednesday 18 July 12 21:39 BST (UK)
Hi,

Have you considered the baptism as per this link:-

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N1CB-CPT

The baptism is for Daniel Ratley in Charlton but I have found that it is not unusual for the name Ratley to become Ratcliffe (or variations thereof)

Then the second Daniel at this link:-

https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/NT22-ZQN

But in this case the father is William Ratley, however, the Parish is River.

If my memory serves me well I recall finding some baptisms for Ratley (as transcribed) and later the surname became Ratcliff or Ratclift (again as transcribed).  The Parish was Petham as I recall but there may well be other examples.

Food for thought,

Best of luck,
Tony
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: jmp on Thursday 19 July 12 00:02 BST (UK)
Yes I have Ratley's who are obviously Ratcliffs and later transcribed as such ;)
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: Modbury on Thursday 19 July 12 11:33 BST (UK)
Thanks for the info, more research needed on those 2 Tony, thanks.

I have in the past gone through my cd's from S&N and the KFHS and found possibles, which are,

Daniel RATTLEY marriage to Elizabeth PHIPPS 28/11/1799 at River

Daniel RATCLIFF marriage to Esther (Hester) PAY  18/4/1818 at River, Papermaker, which had a son called Daniel M RATCLIFF bapt 6/4/1823 River.

Hastingleigh, Kent; Burial. Daniel RATCLIFFE 28/12/1842 at the East Ashford Union House aged 79. This might be a error in date transcript.

Dover St James a Daniel RATCLIFF married Mary PAY (sister to Hester) 17/12/1820.

Daniel RATCLIFFE died in the Sept Qtr 1851 Dover.
Daniel RATCLIFFE died in the Dec Qtr 1884 Eastry Kent, aged 82.
Daniel RATCLIFF   died in the March Qtr 1850 Milton, Kent.
Daniel RATCLIFF   died in the Dec Qtr 1914 Dover

Could not find any deaths for Daniel RATLEY.

Anyway thanks for the input.

Kind Regards

Bernie



Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: dempstere on Monday 12 October 15 22:06 BST (UK)
Elizabeth Hammond was my 4-greats grandmother. She had a daughter in 1799 with Samuel Fasham Roby, who was a wealthy attorney in Deal, and heir to the manor at Great Mongeham. She named her daughter Frances Roby, the same name as Samuel Fasham Roby's sister.

Frances Roby Hammond became housekeeper to Jacob Mills Davey in Ash around 1817, and bore him two sons, the first in 1818 and the second in 1820. She named them so as to identify HER father: Frederick Roby and Norris Fasham Roby. Samuel Fasham Roby had a second illegitimate daughter in 1813 with Hester Reynolds, whom he married in 1818. He died in 1823, leaving an annuity of ten pounds a year to Frances Roby Hammond, and all the interest on his various properties, lands, etc. to Anna Maria Roby.

Frances Roby Hammond married the father of her two sons, Jacob Mills Davey, in 1829. Her sons went to the King's School in Canterbury. Frederick became a surveyor and Norris a physician. I am descended from Norris. I would love to know more about Elizabeth Hammond and her family with John Radcliff.
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: jmp on Monday 12 October 15 23:09 BST (UK)
Hello Dempstere and welcome to Rootschat :D

How lovely to hear from a relative! John and Elizabeth are also my Great x4grandparents on my mothers side.

Its really interesting to hear about Elizabeth's first "liason" with Samuel Roby, I didnt know any of that although did know about the birth of Frances.

John and Elizabeth married in Ash near Sandwich on 18th March 1800. John had previously been married in 1790 to a Mary Chandler but she had died in December 1799, and they had had at least one child together - Thomas born 1792. So John was about 37 when he married Elizabeth who was 22. Together they had 8 more children:-
John baptised in Ash 8 Mar 1801 but there is a slight possibility he may have been born before they married. He married Elizabeth Gage in 1821 and died 5 Feb 1877 aged 79 in Ash and was a weaver

It then appears the family move from Ash as their next son William is born in Whitfield in 1803. William is my line. He was baptised on 13 Feb 1803 in Whitfield, goes on to marry Jane Kirby and had a number of children. Im still not certain what happened to him although his youngest daughter Jane is returned to Ash shortly after her mother dies in 1832 and is brought up by brother John and his wife.
The next child is George baptised 29 May 1807 again in Whitfield.
Then Hannah baptised 4 Mar 1810 in Whitfield. She marries Henry Beerling 7 Dec 1828 in Ash.
The next child I believe is Eliza again possibly born in Whitfield. I havent found a baptism for her though so the family may well have been on the move at the time. From the Censuses she was born around 1812. She is a witness at Hannah's marriage ( above)
Edward also born in Whitfield and baptised there on 21 Jan 1816.
The family then move back to Ash as the next child Charles is baptised there 31 May 1818 and finally the last child Harriet is baptised in Ash 7 Sep 1823.

John was primarily a labourer and or Ag Lab. he is recorded in the Militia muster roll in 1798 as "a labourer with a spade" ! It would appear that the family were not well to do. John died just before the 1851 Census was taken, in which Elizabeth is listed a pauper, so it must have been a pretty tough life for them.

You have probably already got Elizabeth's parents as Mark Hammond and Elizabeth Pointer who married in 1760 in Ash. I'm afraid I haven't gone back any further on that line yet but if you have any further information I would love to have it.
Anyway, its great to hear from you and if you want any further info please feel free to get in touch
All the best
Jackie ;D
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: dempstere on Tuesday 13 October 15 14:40 BST (UK)
Hi Jackie
Thank you for the valuable information. So sad to hear that Elizabeth became a pauper! Her daughter, Frances Roby Davey, lived a long life, despite difficulties with her husband Jacob Mills Davey. They never had more children together, but at least having a father enabled their two sons to be well educated and break the cycle of poverty. Norris, particularly, seems to have been a brilliant man, with many interests besides medicine. His father, Jacob, died in 1845, leaving a will written on his deathbed which excluded his own family from inheriting anything. He requested an inscription on his grave "By friends supported, by family neglected". Ouch! Everything was left to a lady called Mary Ann Marshall, who was a milliner in Canterbury. A year later, his son, Frederick took his own life at the age of 27. He was buried in Kensal Green Cemetery in the same grave as his father, and the gravestone is mercifully not there.

Frances Roby Davey was remembered by one of her grandsons as a wonderful countrywoman, extremely intelligent. She lived in Stock and died aged 87. I suppose that as a child, she moved around with Elizabeth and John, with little chance of an education. I have great admiration for her, my 3-greats-grandmother.
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: jmp on Tuesday 13 October 15 23:52 BST (UK)
Thats a wonderful story, thanks very much for sharing it with me Dempstere.

Its great to know that the boys made good no doubt as a result of their mothers efforts. Pity that Frederick died so young though.

Thanks again for all the information
Cheers
Jackie
Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: David Boulding on Sunday 20 November 16 15:29 GMT (UK)
I have a family bible which mentions Daniel Ratcliff born 1815 died 1850 Bredgar. This appears to be the same family of (probably grandparents) John (d 1833 age 91) & Mary (d 1824 age 96)  Ratcliff.

There's a page about the Ratcliffs in the bible.

Daniel isn't a common or garden name so there may well be a link.

Is this of interest?

I was bored on afternoon so I did a family tree for the Ratcliff family using info from my family bible.

As per Boulding family bible


John Ratcliff [possibly son of Richard & Mary Ratcliff of Swingfield] was born  around 1743.

He married Susanna Burch in 1772 in Ashford but after bearing him three children she died just after the birth of Richard (bapt Feb 2nd 1777) on 2nd March 1777. John promptly remarried to Mary (nee Boulding) Stretfield widow of Dymchurch  in October 1777. Mary appears to have been considerably older than John by around 15 years

John Ratcliff b1743 Swingfield - d1833 Bredgar (probably son of John & Mary Ratcliff)
1) Susanna Burch b           - d1777 Ashford
Ashford 1772
1772 Apl 2    Ratcliff John of St. Mary’s, Canterbury & Susanna Burch.
1773 Dec 29                            Susanna, dau. of John Ratcliff - d1777 Ashford
1775 Mar 26                                John, son of John Ratcliff
1777 Feb 2                              Richard, son of John Ratcliff
2) Mary Stretfield  widow (nee Boulding) b1727 Crundale - d1823 Bredgar (dau of Thomas & Mary Boulding)
Ashford 1777

Richard Ratcliff b1777 Ashford  - d1854 Bredgar (son of John & Susanna Ratcliff)
1) Susanna Pye b1786            - d1810 Bredgar aged 24
Ashford 1805
1806 Richard & Susan Ratcliff      Richard         Bredgar - m1844 Margaret Warren (in 1861 Hartfield Sussex) Richard d1886 Ninfield Sx.& Margaret d1895 Ninfield
1808 Richard & Susan Ratcliff      Susan         Bredgar
1810 Richard & Susan Ratcliff      Jane         Bredgar
2) Elizabeth Wise b1778 Tong   - d1861 Bredgar
Sittingbourne 1811
1812 Richard & Elizabeth Ratcliff   John         Bredgar - not found
1815 Richard & Elizabeth Ratcliff   Daniel          Bredgar - d1850 buried by his grandmother's grave at Bredgar
1816 Richard & Elizabeth Ratcliff   Mary         Bredgar
1818 Richard & Elizabeth Ratcliff   Elizabeth Stanley   Bredgar   

Title: Re: RATCLIFFE's from Kent
Post by: David Boulding on Sunday 20 November 16 15:31 GMT (UK)
1861 ... Farm, Parrock Lane, Hartfield, East Grinstead, Sussex, England
Richard    Ratcliff    Head    Married    Male    54    1807    Farmer Of 536 Acres Employing 18 Men And... Boys    Bredgar, Kent, England    
Margaret    Ratcliff    Wife    Married    Female    50    1811    Farmers Wife    Canterbury, Kent, England    
Edward B    Ratcliff    Son    -       Male    12    1849    Scholar    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
Henry P    Ratcliff    Son    -       Male    8    1853    Scholar    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
William E    Thompson    Pupil    -       Male    17    1844    Farmer Pupil    London, Middlesex, England    
Esther       Coombes    Servant Unmarried    Female    28    1833    House Servant    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
George       Young    Servant    -       Male    13    1848    Farm Servant    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
James       Mitchill    Servant    -    Male    15    1846    Farm Servant    Hartfield, Sussex, England

1871  Standard Hill, Ninfield, Hailsham, Sussex, England
Richard    Ratcliff    Head    -    Male    64    1807    -    Kent, England    
Margeret    Ratcliff    Wife    -    Female    60    1811    -    Kent, England    
Jane       Ratcliff    Daughter    Female    29    1842    -    Kent, England    
Edwd B       Ratcliff    Son    -    Male    22    1849    -    Sussex, England    
Henry P    Ratcliff    Son    -    Male    18    1853    -    Sussex, England    
Ruth       Barton    Servant    -    Female    18    1853    -    Sussex, England

1881 Lower Standard Hill, Ninfield, Hailsham, Sussex, England
Richard    Ratcliff    Head    Married    Male    76    1805    Farmer Grazier Of 420 Acres Employing 8 Men & 3 Boys    Kent, England    
Margaret    Ratcliff    Wife    Married    Female    70    1811    Farmers Wife    Canterbury, Kent, England    
Henry P    Ratcliff    Son    Single       Male    28    1853    Farmers Son    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
Ellnor A    Ratcliff    Grand Daughter    Single    Female    18    1863    -    Southborough, Kent, England    
Frances S    Munn    Servant    Single       Female    17    1864    General Servant    Ninfield, Sussex, England

1891 Lower Standard Hill, Ninfield, Hailsham, Sussex, England
Henry P    Ratcliff    Head    Married    Male    38    1853    Farmer    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
Kate       Ratcliff    Wife    Married    Female    37    1854    -    Chelsea, Middlesex, England    
Margaret    Ratcliff    Daughter    -    Female    5    1886    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Kate D       Ratcliff    Daughter    -    Female    4    1887    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Warren P    Ratcliff    Son    -       Male    2    1889    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Sarah       Coleman    Servant Single       Female    21    1870    General Servant Domestic    Canterbury, Kent, England    
Jemima G    Sinden       Nurse    Single       Female    15    1876    General Servant Domestic    Hailsham, Sussex, England    
Margaret    Ratcliff    Mother    Widow       Female    80    1811    Living On Her Own Means    Herstmonceaux, Sussex, England

1901 Pebsham Farm, Bexhill, Battle, Sussex, England
Henry P    Ratcliffe    Head    Married    Male    48    1853    Farmer    Hartfield, Sussex, England    
Kate       Ratcliffe    Wife    Married    Female    47    1854    -    Chelsea, Middlesex, England    
Maggie       Ratcliffe    Daughter    -    Female    15    1886    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Kate D       Ratcliffe    Daughter    -    Female    14    1887    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Warren P    Ratcliffe    Son    -       Male    12    1889    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Lillian    Ratcliffe    Daughter    -    Female    8    1893    -    Ninfield, Sussex, England    
Ada C       Harriot    Boarder    Single    Female    28    1873    Help & Companion    Ashtead, Surrey, England    
Bessie M    Fright       Visitor    Single    Female    28    1873    Living On Own Means    Canada


1911 Pebsham Farmer Bexhill, Bexhill, Sussex, England
Henry Pye       Ratcliff    Head       Married    Male    Farmer       58    1853    Sussex Hartfield    
Kate          Ratcliff    Wife       Married    Female    -       57    1854    London Chelser    
Margaret       Hodges       Daughter    Married    Female    -       25    1886    Sussex Ninfield    
Margarita Pembuton    Hodges       Granddaughter    -       Female    -       0    1911    Surrey Croydon    
Kate Dorohty       Ratcliff    Daughter    Single       Female    -       24    1887    Sussex Ninfield    
Warren Pye       Ratcliff    Son       Single       Male    Assistant Farmer 22    1889    Sussex Ninfield    
Warren Pye       Ratcliff    Daughter    Single       Female    -       18    1893    Sussex Ninfield    
Alice          Blackman    Servant    Single       Female    General Servant 20    1891    Sussex Westfield