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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: Brian Holcroft on Tuesday 13 November 07 13:20 GMT (UK)

Title: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Tuesday 13 November 07 13:20 GMT (UK)
Lauchlan Carmichael shown as a Chemist in South Leith 1861 Census.
I am unable to find his death record or his record in any later census.
Can you help?
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: tidybooks on Tuesday 13 November 07 16:37 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Brian,

Any chance they emigrated, I cannot find his wife either. Maybe check passenger records, if that is aa possibility.

Tom
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: sancti on Saturday 17 November 07 20:50 GMT (UK)
Couple of possibilities

1863 CARMICHAEL LAUCHLAN     Male 69yrs at  ST GEORGE EDINBURGH CITY/MIDLOTHIAN GROS Data 685/01 0727

1882 CARMICHAEL LAURANCE     Male 83yrs at  DYSART /FIFE GROS Data 426/00 0117
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Sunday 18 November 07 10:29 GMT (UK)
Thanks Sancti and Tidybooks there is the possibility that Lauchlan Carmichael emigrated,I have checked the Mormon Immigration Index without success.
Lauchlan was born 1826 to James Carmichael an Margaret Shaw and married Margaret Steel,the wedding certificate confirms this I really need to ascertain James Carmichael's parentage. James Halliday Carmichael born 1803 is favorite but the 1841 Census belies his age quoted as 60 yrs and his age at marriage in1822 would be 19 compared with Margaret Shaw 34 yrs. Burial or death details of James Carmichael would resolve this.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: tidybooks on Sunday 18 November 07 19:16 GMT (UK)
Hi Brian,

With all that info , makes life a wee bit easier, here is some that you may already have by the sound of it, but will help other reseachers to give all info known at outset.

Parents were James Carmichael & Margaret Shaw.

Andrew Halliday Carmichael 10 Mar 1824 St Cuthbert’s, Edinburgh, Midlothian (Extracted)
Margaret Carmichael 11 May 1825 St Cuthbert’s, Edinburgh, Midlothian (Extracted)
Lauchlan Carmichael born 01 Oct 1826 St Cuthbert’s, Edinburgh, Midlothian (Extracted)
Duncan Carmichael 20 May 1828 St Cuthbert’s, Edinburgh, Midlothian (Extracted)
Helen Halliday Carmichael 31 Mar 1830 St Cuthbert’s, Edinburgh, Midlothian (Extracted)
Janet Carmichael 30 Mar 1836 St Cuthbert’s, Edinburgh, Midlothian (Extracted)

Lauchlan Carmichael married Margaret Steel 20 Jun 1851 St Cuthbert’s, Edinburgh, Midlothian (Extracted)

In the 1841 census at Beaumont Cottage, Edinburgh

James Carmichael 60 b 1781 Scotland Cl Stamp & Tax Office
Margaret Carmichael 45 b 1796 Midlothian wife
Andrew Carmichael 15 b 1826 Midlothian Student of Medicine
Margaret Carmichael 15 b 1826 Midlothian
Helen Carmichael 10 b 1841 Midlothian
Janet Carmichael 5 b 1836 Midlothian
Alexander Carmichael 5 b 1836 Midlothian

It would appear that they have rounded all ages to nearest 5 not just 20 and over.

In the 1851 census at Mexborough Yorkshire,

Andrew H Carmichael 28 b 1824 Edinburgh General Practitioner
Margaret Carmichael 20 b 1831Edinburgh sister, should be 26

In the 1861 still at Mexborough, still unmarried,

Andrew H Carmichael 36 b 1825 Edinburgh General Practitioner
No other family with him.


In the 1871 England census at 17 Newgate St, Chester

Andrew H Carmichael 47 b 1824 Edinburgh, Physician & Surgeon
Maria Hancock 28 b 1843 Brample, Derbyshire Niece and House keeper


I can see where Andrew Halliday Carmichael went, but struggling with the rest. There are 2 IGI searches I did in North America.

Lachlan Carmichael married Christine McLean 21 Oct 1885 Buchanan, Missouri (Extracted)

Lachlan Alexander Carmichael b 03 Dec 1890 Green Leaf, Kansas m Annie Laurie Pelletier 27 Nov 1916 and died 22 Jun 1973

Not sure if they are connected but food for thought.

Tom
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Monday 19 November 07 12:49 GMT (UK)
Hello Tidybooks,
What a great response I am very grateful,I do have Andrew H Carmichael traced in 1881 ,1891 and his death in 1915.
The info on Lauchlan is most useful and I will follow this and let you know the outcome.
I still seek to prove that James Halliday Carmichael b.1803 is truly the correct ancestor.
I have looked at the following and not yet found a reference to Halliday being included in his name :
1841 Census. Alexander Porteous Carmichael's Birth 1832,Marriage1854 and Death 1895.
His Daughter Janet Carmichael's wedding1860.
Lauchlan Carmichael's wedding to Margaret steel 1851.
Margaret Shaw's Death Certificate1878.
James Carmichael's wedding Cert. 1822 to Margaret Shaw.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: tidybooks on Monday 19 November 07 16:49 GMT (UK)
Hi Brian,

I have found a Margaret Shaw b 1787 Inveresk, Musselburgh to a Lauchlen Shaw and Margaret Atkinson, following this line may pick up a Haliday. The Haliday is not necessarily in Carmichael line.
I note you looked at a DC for a Margaret Shaw dated 1878, that would make her 101. so maybe the wrong one.

Not sure if there is anything left to search for to give the Haliday link and the to confirm the correct ancestor. It is very difficult when dealing with OPR's sometimes women's names were not given.

Tom

PS Oops, My arithmetic was not too good, should have been 89/90, just what you have found.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Tuesday 20 November 07 09:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Tom ,
I have Margaret Shaw' Death certifuicate confirms her age at 89 yrs in1878 therefore born 1788 I have her christening record and traced her family via IGI to late 1600's.
I guess I will not prove finally James Halliday Carmicharel till I find burial details.
Thanks for your help,
Brain
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: tidybooks on Tuesday 20 November 07 21:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Brian,

I think the Lauchlen in the Margaret Shaw line at least helps to prove that you are on correct line.

Tom
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: fhresearcher on Wednesday 11 February 09 20:38 GMT (UK)
Just saw this message and joined up to reply.

In researching Sir Andrew Halliday (1782-1839) and his wife Lady Helen Carmichael d. 31 Oct 1850, it states Lauchlan Carmichael, a chemist living at 13 Carlton St., Edinburgh,  as the next of kin and executor of the estate. This was from her will in the Edinburgh  Sheriff Court in 1860.

They married around 1804. I have info on Sir Andrew Halliday and am seeking to find any children from this marriage and/or to connect with others researching this line. I am esp. interested in the sister of Sir Andrew Halliday, Elizabeth Halliday Thomson.

Best wishes, D.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Thursday 12 February 09 10:42 GMT (UK)
I am intrigued by your reply.
Thomas Halliday m Margaret Porteous
Andrew b abt.1756 Dumfrieshire.
Andrew Halliday m Helen Carmichael abt. 1786 Edinburgh.

I have been unable to find a marriage between Elizabeth Halliday and a Thomson but I will persue.

            ----------------------------------------------------------

Our family roots go back to James Carmichael a clerk in the tax office Edinburgh m Jean Home  1798 and christened one of his children James Halliday Carmichael
 
James Carmichael Snr. subsequently married Margaret Shaw 1822 and christened  children Andrew b.1824 ; Lauchlan b.1826; Helen Halliday b. 1830; Alexander Porteous b.1832.
The second christian names Halliday and Porteous pop up in subsequent generations to this day but I have failed to find James Carmichael's parentage.

Lauchlan Carmichael is reported in the 1851 census living in 21 Salisbury St., Edinburgh occupation Chemist and Drugist age 24, his brother ended up as a Doctor.

Have you any clues.

Best wishes Brian.

 


Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: tidybooks on Thursday 12 February 09 11:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Brian & D,

I did some searching since D posted his/her reply, found out that Sir Andrew Halliday was knighted 1821. Will need to try and connect Lady Helen Carmichael & James Carmichael Snr. The use of Halliday as middle name started after the knighthood in 1821, a wee bit family pride, maybe.

I have not been able to connect James and Lady Helen yet, needs more effort.

Tom
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Thursday 12 February 09 13:34 GMT (UK)
Halliday and Porteous were used from 1803 and 1832 respectively.
 
Thanks I'll keep trying but any help would be appreciated.

Best wishes Brian.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: flst on Thursday 12 February 09 15:04 GMT (UK)
Hi, I have found some information on an Alexander Porteous Carmichael in a book called Scottish Biographies (1938).Although this may be too recent for your ancestors it does mention he is the son of the late Alexander Carmichael.Please let me know if you would like to know more.
flst
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Thursday 12 February 09 15:22 GMT (UK)
Yes please.
Brian
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: fhresearcher on Thursday 12 February 09 16:31 GMT (UK)
Dear B and T,

Exciting!

I am in the process of researching Sir Andrew Halliday for a short biography. There are numerous sites on the Internet with info. I really do not know where to start in telling you about him. However, I find little mentioned about his wife.

Names mentioned in the will of Sir Andrew Halliday (1839):

Halliday family-his sisters Janet, Elizabeth ( my direct line), Jean, Margaret, and Agnes and/or their lawfull issue. No other names from his family.

Carmichael family- Mrs. Grace Porteous who he lists as his sister-in-law and who is the widow of  the Reverend Alexander Porteous. Janet Carmichael sister-in-law. Grace later lives with Lady Helen as listed in the 1841 census and 1851 census. I am currently having a relative take photos of her homes in Edinburgh at these addresses.

Perhaps the listed Janet Carmichael in the 1861 census who is wife to James might be the connection making one of them a sibling or nephew/niece to Lady Helen Carmichael Halliday. I do know that Lady Helen was the dau of Peter Carmichael of Edinburgh.

Sir A H born 1782 in Dalton parish, Dumf. to Thomas Halliday ( parents William Halliday and ___Bell) and Margaret Porteous dau of Archibald Porteous, portioner of Copewood. As a side note Sir AH did spend three summers as a tutor on the Isle of Mull for Murdoch Maclaine who was uncle to Lauchlan McQuarrie. Another possibility for the name Lauchlan.

What do you think?

Debbie

 PS In my family the names of Halliday and Porteous were used as middle names for five generations and has made it interesting and clearer to see the connections. However, until last summer when I found the info on Elizabeth, and her family members, no one knew of the significance or anything about Sir AH. The middle names now have great meaning to us.

Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: flst on Thursday 12 February 09 20:30 GMT (UK)
"Carmichael,Alexander Porteous.Craigower,The Loan,  Loanhead, Midlothian. Born 1879, Edinburgh. Son of the late Alexander Carmichael. Ed.Moray House;
George Heriot's School,Edinburgh. Married 1908,Helen Telfer, daughter of late Michael Lawson;1 son, 1 daughter. Councillor,burgh of Loanhead,1934: Junior Bailie, 1935-36;Senior Bailie since 1936. Recreations: gardening,golf,motoring."
From "Scottish Biographies 1938" published by E.J.Thurston,177-8 Fleet Street,London, & Jackson,Son & Co.(Booksellers)Ltd. 73 West George Street,Glasgow.
flst
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Thursday 12 February 09 22:00 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the reference:
Alexander Porteous Carmichael b 1880 shown with his parents in 1881 census, his mother Marion Goodlet 2nd wife of Alexander Porteous Carmichael - occupation butcher. Living 21 Salisbury St. Edinburgh.
His father also Alexander Porteous Carmichael b.1832, father James Carmichael Clerk in the Tax Office, mother Margaret Shaw.
The name and birth dates are identical in your reference,but require further work to confirm. The death cert for Alexander porteous Carmichael Snr d. 1895 is signed by A.H. Carmichael son.
Our family tree descends from  David  Henderson Carmichael b.1856 son of A.H. Carmichael Snr..and 1st. wife Janet Henderson.
My real stumbling block is the parentage of A.H. Carmichael's father James Carmichael who died 1850 in Edinburgh.
Thanks for your help best wishes Brian.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: demented on Saturday 14 March 09 14:43 GMT (UK)
just registered when I saw thisdiscussion. My family links go back to james carmichael and jean home.their first 3 children were registered together in 1803 0n birth of James haliday when James snr was described as a merchant.(had they been abroad?) When Mary Home was registered in 1805 the witness was Dr Haliday and James was settled in new job-Exchequer.marriage record of Mary in 1830 showsjames in tax office Edin.
Jean Home's father was a planter in Grenada-James was a merchant were they born or lived abroad?
Did not know of 2nd marriage of James
Poss birth of JamesOPR 24/7/1765 Edin. would match age at time of deathbut not info. from 1841 census.-A mystery
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Saturday 14 March 09 15:43 GMT (UK)
I agree James Carmichael b. 1795 is the best fit, his father John was a Merchant in Edinburgh and one of the witnesses was Thomas Maben a Clerk in the Post Office.
The age stated on the death record (86 in 1850) does not tie in with 1841 CS. which are rounded ages,however if true it means that James C. was 34yrs. when he married the illigitimate daughter of Francis Home, is it possible that Jean home was his second wife and margaret Shaw his third.
A James Carmichael married Margaret Ried 28th. Sep 1781 one of the children was Ann Home Carmchael b.1787, James could be aged 16 but this is probably a red herring.
You may be interested in the correspondence between George home of Paxton to be found on the National Archives of Scotland by searching using James Carmichael as the search input.
If you have any difficulty let me know.
My wife's family traces back to James C. and his wife Margaret Shaw m. 1822. this means that Jean Carmichael nee Home probably died between 1814 and 1822 have you any details of this death.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: demented on Saturday 14 March 09 16:30 GMT (UK)
Thanks Brian .I don,t have any other info on Jean Home.unfortunately spent a long time on a false trail. I do not have any birth or death records for her. I also reckoned that 1765 birth for James seemed right but that would mean he was about 57 when he married Mgt Shaw.Because of census info I was wondering if there were 2 jamesCs who worked in the tax office. It certainly is complicated especially if a 3rd wife is involved!
I would be glad of any info you have on Jean or james and will certainly pass on anything I find out.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Saturday 14 March 09 17:19 GMT (UK)
Look at the reference national archives of Scotland.
Brian.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Tuesday 17 March 09 14:53 GMT (UK)
My records show children of Jean Home & James Carmichael:
Jean Home Carmichael b. 1799
George Home Carmichael b.1800
Peter Carmichael b.1802
James Haillday carmichael b. 1803
Mary Home Carmichael b.1805
Penelopy Carmichael b. 1809
Frances Home Carmichael b. 1811
Agnes Carmichael b.1814.

I suspect that Jean Carmichael (nee Home ) died between 1814 and 1822 but have yet to find evidence.
I am aware that death record are held by Scotlands GRO but not yet available online.
Brian.
 
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: fhresearcher on Wednesday 18 March 09 00:12 GMT (UK)
Although a bit confusing I think we are on the right track.

Sir Andrew Halliday married Helen Carmichael dau of Peter Carmichael of Edinburgh in about 1804. I don' t have an original marriage record yet, just the notes on it.
He was known as Dr. Halliday and most probable a relative involved with the family.
He was the personal Dr. for the delivery of the Duke of Clarence's (later William IV) second child who died at four mouths. So that shows he did work with young children and maybe did deliveries.
Some of the siblings of Sir Andrew Halliday named their children after both him and Lady Helen Carmichael Halliday. I surmise they were well liked and as the Carmichael family had James Halliday Carmichel and a Helen Halliday Carmichael it can be found there too.
My direct, James Young (1792-1875) was the ill. son of Elizabeth Halliday (later Thomson) and Robert Young. He was a nephew to Sir Andrew Halliday. He also worked in the excise office in various places in Scotland and England. He was in the Edinburgh office too.

Debbie
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Wednesday 18 March 09 10:33 GMT (UK)
Very interesting:
Andrew Halliday b. 1824  Carmichael son of James Carmichael and Margaret Shaw became a licentiate of the college of surgeons in 1846, his qualification was L.M. which I understand is a Midwifery qualification coincidently with Sir Andrew Halliday's profession.
He died unmarried in Cheshire having lived in the Wirral.
Brian
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: fhresearcher on Wednesday 18 March 09 12:55 GMT (UK)
Sir Andrew Halliday was involved in many aspects of medicine. He had an interesting, if not fabulous, career. The fact that the naming patterns are showing both he and his wife in both of their families is helpful.

I think we can use this to put the families together. He had no issue. It makes sense that the relatives honored them by naming their children after them.

D
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: demented on Wednesday 18 March 09 17:54 GMT (UK)
Thanks Brian for info on Jean home and James Carmichael. I had only info on their first 4 children.If I come across anything that may help you I'll pass it on
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: kay_linds on Sunday 22 March 09 14:04 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Excited to read this thread about Lauchlan Carmichael, like Brian I am a direct descendant of David Henderson Carmichael (b 1856), through his daughter Lillias Carmichael and her son, Albert Wallace Potts.

We are all stuck on James Carmichael who married Margaret Shaw and have been interested to read where everyone else is. 

We agree with everthing back to James Carmichael and Margaret Shaw apart from on the 1901 census Andrew Halliday Carmichael is listed as a widower.

Interestingly enough my Grandad tells a story about an ancestor being Queen Victoria's doctor is this Sir Andrew Halliday?  We've not so found anything so far to validate this story.

Does anyone know anything about sisters of David Henderson Carmichael called Sarah or Anne? As we can't find them on any census but my Grandad talks of them and says they never married but had lots of property in Edinburgh and Glasgow.

Lindsay & Kay
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: fhresearcher on Sunday 22 March 09 16:00 GMT (UK)
Quick reply is yes Sir Andrew Halliday was the physician for the Duke of Clarence later Wm IV. He held the baby, who would have been next in line instead of Victoria,  all night long who died with a fever and etc. at the age of four months. This I found on the www.Internet Archives in a full text book about the incident. I have not found anything abt Queen V. but many family stories still exist-gotta go-more later. Debbie
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Monday 23 March 09 08:50 GMT (UK)
L&K
David Henderson Carmichael b.1855 m Janet Carmichael (maiden name) 1877.
The only sisters I  know of Elizabeth C. b. 1857, Elizabeth C b. 1858, Margaret C. b.1860, Margaret Shaw C. b.1865 and a dau. to Marion Goodlet his 2nd. wife,Jessie C.

James Henderson Brown Carmichael (son of David Henderson Carmichael)  m Annie Frost 1901, her sister was Sarah.

Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Monday 23 March 09 09:14 GMT (UK)
D.
Jean Home was the illegitimate Daughter of Francis Home a planter in Grenada.
Francis was the brother of George Home of Paxton the proof is in document GD267/12/5 which can be accessed via the NAS web site. The document refers to a son of James and Jean training to be a Surgeon, but I don't know which son this is, a son from his later marriage to Margaret Shaw did qualify as a licentiate of the college of surgeons (Edinburgh) in Mexborough 1846.
George Home of Paxton and Wedderburn Ancestors go back a very long way.
Another George Home d.1774 was the Town Clerk in Leith he married Janet Halliday is this family in any way related to Jean Home ? Where did she live when she came back from Grenada?
 
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: kay_linds on Monday 23 March 09 09:50 GMT (UK)
Thanks Brian, you've pretty much confirmed what we thought in relation to Sarah & Anne.

We'd just found yesterday that James Henderson Brown Carmichael was married to Annie Frost and I was wondering how much else you'd found about the Carmichael's from that generation and further down.  We've got quite a bit on one branch of the family, i.e Lillias Carmichael but not a great deal on others and wondered what you had?

Happy to share what we know or to help fill in any gaps.

Lindsay
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Monday 23 March 09 10:24 GMT (UK)
My records for David Henderson Carmichael go back to James Carmichael  married to  Margaret Shaw 1822.
I think this was his second marriage firstly married to Jean Home 1798 but yet to find proof.

Janet carmichael married to D.H.Carmichael was daughter of Peter Carmichael and Lillias Dick married in St Ninnians 1877 their parents are not certain yet.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: kay_linds on Monday 23 March 09 13:31 GMT (UK)
Hi Brian,

We have Lillias Dick's parents as William Dick nail maker and Anne Dawson.

The other information we have for Lillias Dick is  1811 St Ninians
died 19 october 1876 Royal Edinburgh Asylum
 

 
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Monday 23 March 09 13:47 GMT (UK)
Yes I agree, it is really Peter carmichael's death cert. that creates some confusion.
Possibly  d. 1884 at Collinton poor House father William Carmichael, Mother margaret Ferguson but can only find Colin Carmichael married to Margaret Ferguson 1789 Perthshire.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: demented on Monday 23 March 09 14:20 GMT (UK)
a witness on the birth record of my 3xg grandmother Mary Home Carmichael in 1805 was dr Haladay.I've been trying to establish a link with James Carmichael or Jean Home and Dr halliday.I have just discovered that Sir Andrew Halliday also had a link with the army -was appointed deputy inspector general of army hospitals became inspector general of  hospitals in the west indies.Could this be a link with Jean Home?
Have been unable to access document via NAS website so far but have a poss link  from IGI of birth of Francis Home  about 1713 to Sir George Home of Wedderburn and his wie Margaret.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Monday 23 March 09 14:59 GMT (UK)
d.
I too had difficulty this time, I searched the Nas catalogue using  "Carmichael a clerk at the Tax Office"and searched for phrase this gave 2 results if you click onto the GD number this should be successful,let me know how you get on.
 
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: demented on Monday 23 March 09 17:15 GMT (UK)
Thhanks Brian managed to gain access and found it very exciting and interesting. It sets me on the right road for the Homes this time.I noticed that the letter of 1806 mentioned wanting a son to be a surgeon That would have to have been one of his and Jeans but the oldest George would only have been about 10. However I also noticed that the letter of 1806 mentioned the upkeep of 6 childrenand he and Jean only had 4 at that time so maybe you were right about a previous marriage. James certainly led an interesting life!! I hope that among us all we can find out more. Will pass on anything I find. Thanks again for your help
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Monday 23 March 09 17:40 GMT (UK)
James Carmichael and Jean had 5 children in 1806;
Jean home C. b.1799
George home C. b.1800
Peter C.  b.1802
James Halliday C. b.1803
Mary Home C. b. 1805

Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: demented on Monday 23 March 09 18:01 GMT (UK)
Thanks for pointing that out Brian. I somehow missed it when I took note of the last 3 children from one of your postings.I hadn't found more than 4 in my previous searches.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Monday 23 March 09 18:12 GMT (UK)
D
There is loads of family tree info for Francis home ancestors at Paxton House.
ther is also a Pedegree chart on CD via famillysearch.org I think I still have a copy somewhere I will dig it out if I can.
I lost interest when I found Margaret Shaw was the correct Bloodline
Brian
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: demented on Monday 23 March 09 19:12 GMT (UK)
That would be great. I have lots of bits of info noted and put aside when I was searching the wrong line of Homes (due to the name Jane on the 4 birth records I had) Hopefully they will now be of use in putting the  "jigsaw" together. Any  info will be gratefully accepted. Will let you know if I find out any more about James or the hallidays.thanks again Brian.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: fhresearcher on Monday 23 March 09 20:44 GMT (UK)
Anyone researching Sir Andrew Halliday's career? I would like to work together-Debbie
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: demented on Tuesday 24 March 09 10:34 GMT (UK)
Debbie i,m just looking for the link between Sir Andrew and the Homes or carmichaels but I found a good potted history of his career in a publication from Royal College of surgeons. which I found through google.
www.rcpa.ac.uk/journal/issue/journal-37-3/wilson.pdf
You may have seen this already but good luck with your search.I'll pass on anything else I find out
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: fhresearcher on Tuesday 24 March 09 13:11 GMT (UK)
Yes, and for anyone else looking later on there is an image of a painting of him available online through the Wellcome Library.
I have seen a message board stating the marriage to Helen Carmichael in 1804 in Edinburgh with his name spelled Holloway.
I do not live in the UK so I wonder if one of the the university's might have a thesis or dissertation with more info on his career etc.

Thanks for the help-Debbie
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: greater.bilby on Wednesday 01 July 09 05:17 BST (UK)
Lauchlan Carmichael shown as a Chemist in South Leith 1861 Census.
I am unable to find his death record or his record in any later census.
Can you help?

Hi Brian,  I came across a Queensland death registration # B2080 for a Lachlan Carmichael for 1902 aged 76 years.   He was born in Scotland. 

There was a Lachlan Carmichael who was a Chemist in Queen Street, Brisbane Queensland Australia around 1873 I think it was ... I saw a picture of Queen Street online today with his name written on the side of a building from that era.    If I can find the link to the picture I'll post it here.   

When I tried to find more info on him, your post here came up.   I thought it was a bit much of a coincidence that your Lauchlan Carmichael was a Chemist and that the Queensland-based  "Lachlan" Carmichael was originally born in Scotland (I looked up South Leith and it's somewhere in/near Edinburgh Scotland ??)    The age seems to just about fit too if he was born 01 Oct 1826 St Cuthbert’s, Edinburgh, Midlothian (Extracted) ... (as mentioned somewhere on this thread).
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: fhresearcher on Wednesday 01 July 09 06:11 BST (UK)
In researching Sir Andrew Halliday (1782-1839) and his wife Lady Helen Carmichael d. 31 Oct 1850, it states Lauchlan Carmichael, a chemist living at 13 Carlton St., Edinburgh,  as the next of kin and executor of the estate. This was from her will in the Edinburgh  Sheriff Court in 1860.

I posted this way back but was not sure if you saw this.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: greater.bilby on Wednesday 01 July 09 07:02 BST (UK)
Lauchlan Carmichael shown as a Chemist in South Leith 1861 Census.
I am unable to find his death record or his record in any later census.
Can you help?

Here's the link to the photo and it's description mentioning Lachlan Carmichael's Chemist shop that I came across earlier today that led me to your post here. 

http://www.bonzle.com/c/a?a=pic&fn=9e29cmgh&s=3
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: greater.bilby on Wednesday 01 July 09 09:57 BST (UK)
Here's the link to the free online search that provides brief details of Queensland Births between 1829 - 1914, and Deaths and Marriages between 1829 and 1929. 

https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/BirIndexQry.m


Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: greater.bilby on Wednesday 01 July 09 09:59 BST (UK)
Me again Brian ...   I just found the death registration for Lachlan Carmichael's wife Margaret who is mentioned in the thread here previously:-

Here's a copy and paste of the brief result:-

1885/B17852   Carmichael   Margaret        William Steel   - ** born England aged 49 years

She died here somewhere in Queensland (doesn't mention where on the free online search function) in 1885 aged 49 years.    Death registration # B17852.     The details record William Steel as her father. 

According to a classified notice that Lachlan posted in the Brisbane Courier newspaper re: transfer of her land holdings at Enoggera in the State of Queensland to him, Margaret died on the 29th May 1885.  She was buried on the 31st May 1885.

Surely this must be the "Lauchlan" Carmichael you were originally looking for back in 2007.   


Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Wednesday 01 July 09 11:25 BST (UK)
Thanks for this posting. Lauchlan carmichael is the 2nd Granduncle of my wife Shirley Carmichael.
He is show living with his widowed mother in the 1851 Census, 21 Salisbury St. Edinburgh, as a Chemist and Drugist.
1861 he is shown living at 9 Calton Street  Leith with his wife Margaret (nee Steel) and his son James George Carmichael.
Leith is a part of Edinburgh also called the port of Edinburgh (see Wikepedia).
After this reference I could not find him in the U.K. and it now seems likely that he emigrated.
I know of his parents is this relevant to your research.
Best wishes, Brian.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: greater.bilby on Wednesday 01 July 09 11:28 BST (UK)
You're welcome Brian.

I just found Lachlan and Margaret's gravesite at Toowong Cemetery here in Brisbane.  They're buried together.  If you click on "detailed map" option, you can actually see an aerial view of the gravesite.

The link gives their burial dates.

Here's the link:-

https://online.brisbane.qld.gov.au/cemeteries/cemeteries_step3.jsp?mapdisplay=141636

Updating that I found a death registration # B2651 for a James George Carmichael, but don't know if it is Lachlan Carmichael's son because the free registration doesn't list the names of the father or mother.

1865/B2651   Carmichael   James George   -   - ** aged 12 years  (this seems to add up re: previous census post here)

I found adds in the Brisbane Courier newspaper from 1866 onwards for Lachlan's chemist shop in Queen Street Brisbane, so they were in Brisbane from at least then on.    He also posted an add in Help Wanted for a servant girl to work for "a family of 2" in 1871. 


Cheers :)
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Wednesday 01 July 09 13:01 BST (UK)
Greater Bilby,
I have now confirmed (with your help) that lauchlan Carmichael is the distant relative that I was seeking.
His burial details with his wife and her father's name on the Death Cert.,  make this conclusive.
I am most grateful.

Brian.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: as29 on Thursday 06 August 09 08:20 BST (UK)
Hi

I read with interest your posts. I have being trying to find James Carmichael's parentage which has proved difficult, but have picked up some information and thank you.  Halliday is also part of the male surnames.  I am a direct descendant of Alexander porteous and Andrew Carmichael.  I have being doing research originally as there was a family myth that we were related to the Earl of Hyndford, however I have found no evidence of this.  I have some information on Andrew Halliday if anybody is interested, let me know.
Alison
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Thursday 06 August 09 14:01 BST (UK)
Alison,
Alexander Porteous Carmichael (b.1832) and Janet Henderson were my wife's 2X Great Grandparents.
David Henderson Carmichael (b. 1856) and Janet Carmichael were her Great Grandparents.
James Henderson Brown Carmichael was her Grandfather.
Andrew Halliday Carmichael (b. 1909) was her father.

I presume the Andrew Halliday Carmichael, your ancestor, was the son of Alexnder Porteous Carmichael and Margaret Shaw who is shown in 1901 census as a Butcher in Edinburgh.

Re James Carmichael ( Alexander Porteous Carmichael's father) I have his marriage and burial details. I have concluded ( I hope correctly ) that he married twice to Jean home and to Margaret Shaw.

Andrew Halliday Carmichael the son of James Carmichael and Margaret Shaw qualified as a Doctor and died in Ormskirk, Lancashire (1901) aged 77 years.

Re the family rumour of a relationship with the Earl of Hyndford I have no knowledge.

I should be grateful for any information you have on the Carmichael family and trust that you will keep me up to date with any progress.

Thanks,
Brian
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: fhresearcher on Thursday 06 August 09 14:46 BST (UK)
Please add info on Andrew Halliday notes. Thanks!

Debbie
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: as29 on Thursday 06 August 09 20:15 BST (UK)
Hi Brian

Thank you for your information.  I would be interested in the details of James Carmichael, birth place, death place and his parents etc  I have found it very difficult to find.

The information currently I have is:
 
Alexander Porteous m Janet Henderson, their son
Andrew Halliday Carmichael married Mary Grant Richie, their Son (my great grandparents)
Andrew Halliday Carmichael (b 1897 d 1976) (My grandfather)

I conclude that David Henderson was Andrew's brother?  There seems to be quite a few Andrew Hallidays.

Sir Andrew Halliday was always spoken of highly in the family, he bequeathed a sum of money to train my grandfather as a Dr, but unfortunately he couldn't complete his studies due to WW1 - I'm not sure how come this was as Sir Andrew was dead long before he was born.  A family member has Sir Andrew's certificates/manuscripts and correspondence he did during his career including some from the king.  I am hoping to get more information on the family history I will let you know.

I hope this may be useful information for you.  Alison
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: fhresearcher on Thursday 06 August 09 21:50 BST (UK)
Dear Alison,

My 4th great grandmother, Elizabeth, was the sister of Sir Andrew Halliday and I am very interested in his life and career. I have been researching him as well as his godson and grand nephew:

Andrew Hallidie Smith later changed his last name to Hallidie (b. 1836 and inventor of the cable car in SF, California)
Some writings mention that Sir Andrew Halliday also gave a sum of money to his godson.

Would you please let your family member know I would be most interested in sharing info.

Debbie
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: as29 on Friday 07 August 09 07:39 BST (UK)
Dear Debbie

I will see what I can do for you.  I had a look at the certificates yesterday, most of which are in Latin.  One mentions midwifery.  I could see if I could take a photocopy and send you what I have, this I must have agreement from my family member - it may not be possible as of how old they are and whether they could withstand photocopying.  I am next week going through a trunk of my grandfather stuff in hope that any correspondence might shed light on the connection.  I will let you know if I find out any more information.

I'm wondering if anybody has photograph's of family members as I would be interested. 

Thanks.  Alison
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Friday 07 August 09 09:04 BST (UK)
Alison,
I am very interested in your statement that Sir Andrew Halliday bequeathed a sum of money to train your grandad Andrew Halliday Carmichael as a doctor despite yor father not having been born at the time of this bequest.
Another Andrew Halliday Carmichael (Son of James Carmichael and brother of Alexander Porteous Carmichael and probably a nephew of Sir Andrew halliday b.1824-d.1901) qualified as a Doctor in midwifery, Could this Andrew halliday carmichael be the subject of this bequest.

With regard to James Carmichael of the Tax office I have a lot of information/evidence that I am struggling to resolve.

Please keep me in the loop.

Brian 
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: kay_linds on Sunday 27 September 09 12:59 BST (UK)
Hi Everyone,

We've been checking Sir Andrew and Lady Helen's wills, we can't see that there are any bequests to Andrew Halliday Carmichael, everything is left to Lady Helen, Sir Andrew's sisters and sisters-in law and any of their lawful children if they hadn't survived.

We assume it is our Lachlan Carmichael who is executor on Lady Helen's will as he is listed as a chemist working at 13 Calton St, on the 1861 census we have him at 9 Calton St.  It would appear that he was appointed by the courts as the executor as he's listed as Executor dative qua nearest in kin.  This evidence together with the names Halliday and Porteous would strongly suggest that there is a link between the families of Sir Andrew Halliday and James Carmichael and Margaret Shaw however we have still not been able to crack this one.

Linds & Kay
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: fhresearcher on Sunday 27 September 09 14:29 BST (UK)
I have the same results. In the messages it has been brought up that Lauchlan, and family, then move to Australia. I am very interested in your thoughts/research findings on Sir Andrew and Lady Helen.

Thanks,
Debbie
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Monday 28 September 09 10:02 BST (UK)
Dear all,
I have set out all the info I have on Lady Helen and James Carmichael et al and I too have failed to resolve the relationships, if you wish to see a copy in a joint effort to resolve this matter let me know.
Brian.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: kay_linds on Saturday 10 October 09 14:49 BST (UK)
Hi Brian, Alison & Debbie,

Think Brian's suggestion of sharing what we all have to try to resolve this would be the best idea.

Lindsay
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: Brian Holcroft on Sunday 11 October 09 09:22 BST (UK)
Lindsay,
I have emailed my notes.
Brian.
Title: Re: Lauchlan Carmichael
Post by: fhresearcher on Monday 12 October 09 01:38 BST (UK)
Just a note to clarify that in my last message I meant that I am interested in any future findings.

Best wishes,

Debbie