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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: meandcupcake on Monday 05 November 07 03:27 GMT (UK)
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This is going to sound a bit odd, but I was wondering if anyone out there would have knowledge of draught horses and how breeding records were kept. My grgrandfather had an "entire horse" he took around to neighbouring farms in the New Deer area, (late 1800.s) advertising of his visits in the local Public Houses. It would be interesting to know if blood lines were kept and who kept them. Any ideas? ???Lynne
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Hi Lynne !
That's a fabulous photo ! .... :) :) :) and that question isn't odd at all ! ......
Well I Googled and apart from the Irish horses ... I couldn't find too much ! maybe this will give you some ideas and take you further !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shire_horse
Annie :)
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Hi Annie
Thank you for the interesting website. I have always wanted to know about this mystery horse. We think he is the one who stepped on my grgrandfather and killed him. Reading about the size of these horses, I can see how that would happen! Lynne
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I was drawn to this post because my Mum used to love those big old boys and collected proper horse brasses ! :)
Gosh I'm sorry to hear about the accident ..... but I bet if your Great Granddad was still around he'd say "it wasn't the horses fault " :-\
Did he have a name ? maybe Googling his name might bring a result ! or maybe an email to the Shire Horse Society !
Annie :)
EDIT .... I just came across this maybe your next holidays ................. ::)
http://www.westhighlandheavyhorses.com/riding.html
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I haven't been able to find anything on the horse. I've seen the stable where he was kept with the door enlarged. The story goes that my grgrandad tripped on his boot lace and this scared the horse who then reared up and trampled my unfortunate ancestor. That's why I'm trying to find out if anyone kept breeding records. Lynne
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Tell us some details maybe somebody can find a newspaper report ! :-\
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I have the report of John Smith's death in the Fraserburgh Herald & Northern Counties Advertiser May 28, 1907 which reads "Groom Killed by Stallion" John Smith, groom and feuer, 136 High St New Pitsligo, received fatal injuries at Commonty Farm New Deer, on Tuesday. Smith who was in charge of an entire horse was taking the animal from the stable, when it pushed him over and put a hind hoof on his chest, causing such serious injury (I guess so!) that he lived only for half an hour afterwards." coroners report..."injuries sustained by being accidentally knocked down and trampled upon by an entire horse under his charge; per verdict of jury"
Not being knowledgeable on horse breeds, I can't tell if this horse is a Shire .
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I got all excited when I saw this .... but now because you already have the newspaper .... I realise this is probably yours !! :P
http://www.phlomis.plus.com/f_2c.htm
Annie :)
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Yes, Annie, that is my family. I guess because I can't get back any further in time, I'm working on some stories to go with the photo, since most relatives (who aren't genealogy addicts) quickly lose interest in just the lineage. I'm appreciating all your input!
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I just thought of the word ... " a stud book " .... that's what you need !! ;D ;D ;D
I still think that even without the name of the horse you could email the Shire Horse Society and ask about the stud books in that area !!
I love finding padding ...... makes the hunt all the more exciting because our families become "people" don't you think ?;D
Annie :)
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Good idea. I will try it tomorrow. I must close for the night. Will keep you posted if I find out anything...goodnight! Lynne
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HI Lynne,
I would love to help.....but really...what would you really prefer..
to know about the magnificent Stallion....
or about John Smith....
If it is John....then what do you know?
Please tell us all factual dates...B M D....with the Marriage..who did he marry...tell us the certificates you have..
If it is the wonderful stead.....then you would have to contact the property he was stabled on...and look at their archives.. or http://www.scotsman.com/ to search the property.Commonty Farm. the stallion may have competed at the local show......search the Farm...
regards,Jo
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I keep horses and while I can't add anything specific to the suggestions made by others, in my experience the horse doesn't look like a Shire Horse.
Breeds can change over the years but Shires tend to be massively tall but not as chunky as that horse. They also have much more long hair (feather) on their feet. To me he looks more of a "type" than a specific breed but I'm sure that you'll get loads of helpful info from a breed society.
Hope this helps in some way
Deb - Good luck!
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I'm with you, Deb - that's not a Shire...at least not 100%. Looks like it has been crossed with a Percheron or something similar, very stocky beasts. Also he's doesn't look tall enough to be a Shire - they are at least 18 hands high which is 72 inches/6ft at the withers. Could be a Suffolk Punch (or Punch cross)?
Prue
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Great picture and story. It would be interesting to know what became of the horse. I can't imagine in those days that he would have been destroyed. He was probably judged far more valuable than your poor GGrandpa ::)
In that part of the world he's more likely to be a Clydesdale -
www.clydesdalehorsesociety.com
Suey
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I think that the horse would be a Clydesdale too...we have a show here every year and they are just fantastic to look at when they are all done up in their finery :)
http://www.aberdeenclydesdaleshow.co.uk/
Elaine
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Oh dear!
This wonderful animal would not have been distroyed...it was clearly a tragic accident.
if we go by the horse in the picture.....he has a snaffle bit in his mouth {(the kindest bit) shows how manageable he was} with a rope..for a lead....
this shows what a kind fellow he was...the accident would have been viewed fairly....
I do agree though that he was likely a Clyesdale....not sure though..
JO
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Annie ......you changed your picture!!
I only just notices it was you....you dark horse...
pardon
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I don't think the horse is a Suffolk Punch - he's got too much feather & he doesn't look quite right, somehow - the shape's wrong. I had a mare who looked like him-she was Shire crossed with ???
I don't think working horses were bred as carefully then as Shires are now (or were by enthusiasts then). They were after a tough, thrifty horse with shortish legs in proportion to his/her body (better gearing!)
Maggott
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hello to everyone...I'm overwhelmed by the response to my question! It is the stallion I'm more interested in...I don't think I can get back any further on John Smith's side. (see www.phlomis.plus.com/f_2c.htm ) I'm happy to hear so many in agreement with the Clydesdale, as they are truly magnificent. Commonty was just the farm he was visiting and when I visited there in 2004, the owner was very sick and wouldn't talk. The horse was usually stabled in a lane off High Street New Pitsligo, which is now converted into something else. But I learned about a fair at Aikee Brae? I might learn something there. Lynne
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Yes, the Clydesdale looks about right, what a beautiful animal :)
Jo is right, judging by the bit etc he's wearing, he really was a gentle giant...must have really been frightened to have reacted the way he did causing that tragic accident :'(
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Prue! I am so pleased to see Harry again....
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;D Hi Jo...nice to know he's still got what it takes! ;) :-*
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I am sure the horse is a Clydesdale it was the usual horse used for farmwork in Scotland, it was common practice to walk the horse from farm to farm offering his services often traveling long distances getting
board for him and his horse on the journey ,this practice was known as walking the staag. However the men who walked the
staag were treated with suspicion as they had a reputation for siring as many offspring as their stallion [ptobably undeservadley] As the horses had pedigrees records would be kept but I have no Idea where to find them one of the most famous having the pedigree name FOOTPRINT was exported to Canada and is the ancestor of most of the Clydesdale's in Canada today.
[note the term staag not stag]
Renard
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Hi!
I'd agree, this beauty definitely looks like a Clydesdale.
Suey already posted a link to the Clydesdale Horse Society site (see below), but I thought I'd mention that it has a 'contact us' link, it might be worthwhile getting in touch and seeing if they might be able to help, especially given this article about the ancestry of Clydesdales.
http://www.clydesdalehorsesociety.com/history.htm
I'm stunned to find that Clydesdales are officially recognised as an "at risk" animal, due to their continually dwindling numbers. Unbelievable when you consider how important they were to us in the past.
Lass x
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Clydesdales as a breed are going strong here in the North-east, and we at Aberdeenshire Heritage (the Aberdeenshire Council Museum Service) have some of the early stud books.
The travelling stallion would be a high-quality pedigree stallion awarded a 'premium' - which meant that he would be subsidised by the Clydesdale Horse Society or similar and his 'covering fee' would be affordable for farmers to breed their cart mares. The horse would travel a well-publicised route, and any farmers wishing to breed their mare would be able to tell when he was in the area. This was to encourage the breeding of solid, sturdy, long-lived and healthy work animals of a decent type. The little pony was often used as a companion for these rather solitary creatures. The stallion man and his charge would be a common sight throughout Britain from the mid-19th century right through to after the Second World War, walking the roads of britain. In England it would be the Shire and the Suffolk Punch, with perhaps a Breton, Percheron or a Flemish stallion here and there, and in Wales more often than not it would be a big, sturdy Welsh Cob.
The list of Clydesdale premiums was listed every year in the society transactions, so if you contact me at
Helen.Chavez[at]aberdeenshire.gov.uk
I'll see what we can do - and if we can't help, perhaps we mgiht be able to put you in touch with someone who can.
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