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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Devon => Topic started by: lucaduca on Sunday 04 November 07 20:47 GMT (UK)
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I am seeking info of my gg'grandfather Henry Warren born 1816-17 in Devonport, his wife Amelia Penicud or Pennicot born 1813 also of Devonport,
they married in 1840 in lambath london, I have them on 1861 Westminster census with their seven children. I have been trying to find their births but to no avail, awaiting with great hope and anticipation for your replies.
Many Thanks.
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Not much help as far as births go -but I have them in 1841 and 1851 if you need them
Suz
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hello
On the 1861 it gives place of birth for the children
AmeliaH 19, Annie E 18, james17 all Birmingham, Warwickshire
Edward P 12 Stour bridge Worcestershire.
(freeBMD has Edward Penioud Languin Warren b sep1/4 1848 Stourbridge)
Emma J 10 Plymouth Devonshire
(free BMD has Emma Jane b sep1/4 1850 Plymouth)
Robert 8 Berkhampstaed Hertfordshire
Elizabeth 2 Westminster Middlesex
I will look for others.
Do you have other census that confirms place of birth as these seem well travelled?
from
Jane
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looked at 1841
living St Martin Birmingham
Amelia is 1 month old so b 1841
1851 l Berkhampstead
same place of birth for all children.
But Annie = Ellen ?
still cant find them on Fbmd
jane
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Did you get the marriage certificate, to obtain the names of their fathers?
You will have to look in parish records for births that early, and you would need the father's name.
The IGI from 'familysearch' has these,
1. HENRY WARREN
Gender: Male Christening: About 23 JAN 1817 Kenn, Devon, England
2. HENRY WARREN -
Gender: Male Christening: 23 MAY 1820 Crediton, Devon, England
Nothing on there for Amelia.
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HI Jane, I have searched familysearch.org nothing there except birth of my
grandfather james william born 1845, I also went to L.D.S church in my area but found nothing, in 1881 census which I think is my henry I found there is a second marriage, it states Henry is a bootmaker and the wife is Eliza 61, Minnie 10,Harry 8, stepson William Palmer 20, stepdau Amelia Palmer 16,.many thanks Lucaduca. quote author=Jane Manley link=topic=266140.msg1509903#msg1509903 date=1194212800]
looked at 1841
living St Martin Birmingham
Amelia is 1 month old so b 1841
1851 l Berkhampstead
same place of birth for all children.
But Annie = Ellen ?
still cant find them on Fbmd
jane
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Yes please Suz, many thanks lucaduca
Not much help as far as births go -but I have them in 1841 and 1851 if you need them
Suz
:)
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Hi Silvery, no I have not got the marriage cert', that will be my next thing to do, the Henry from Kenn could be a possability, I would like to be certain I have the right couple before I apply for cert'. many thanks Lucaduca.
Did you get the marriage certificate, to obtain the names of their fathers?
You will have to look in parish records for births that early, and you would need the father's name.
The IGI from 'familysearch' has these,
1. HENRY WARREN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: About 23 JAN 1817 Kenn, Devon, England
2. HENRY WARREN - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 23 MAY 1820 Crediton, Devon, England
Nothing on there for Amelia.
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Hi
You won't know you have the right couple until you get the cert with the fathers' names and occupation, and the groom's occupation.
Have you got a birth cert of one of the children for mother's maiden name?
This would also give you father's occupation. This can be a help in tracking them down in the census.
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Hi Silvery, what I do have is a free BMD marriage in Lambeth september 1840
vol 4 page 238, marriage of Amelia Penicud and Henry Warren, this was sent to me
by a distant cousin, my grandfather james william henry warren was born 1845
in birmingham at some stage he came to Australia and married Grace Stephens in 1875 in Victoria, there is a little of this on Familysearch.org in Ancestral file.
many thanks Lucaduca
You won't know you have the right couple until you get the cert with the fathers' names and occupation, and the groom's occupation.
Have you got a birth cert of one of the children for mother's maiden name?
This would also give you father's occupation. This can be a help in tracking them down in the census.
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Yes. That is the marriage cert you will need to get for the fathers' names, so that you can be sure who you are tracing.
Have you got your grandfather's birth certificate which will show his mother's maiden name?
Kenn, Devon, is near Exeter. Devonport is Plymouth.
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Hi Silvery, no I have nothing at all on paper and of course they are all gone, should I apply to Devon office for marriage or birth cert', which of these would give me the most info. regards Lucaduca
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BIRTH cert would give you the father's name and occupation, and the mother's maiden name.
But the MARRIAGE cert would give this information plus their ages and their fathers' names which is extremely useful in tracing them, and the father's name could be a reference point for the birth certificate. (So you could eliminate any with the wrong father)
You have the reference for the marriage cert.
Order from the General Register Office (GRO) cost £7
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
reference
Marriages Sep 1840 (>99%)
Hodges Sarah Lambeth 4 238
Jennings John Lambeth view
LYON James Lambeth 4 238
Nicholls Joseph Lambeth 4 238
PENICUD Amelia Lambeth 4 238 <<<<<<<<<
WALTERS Ann Lambeth 4 238
WARREN Henry Lambeth 4 238 <<<<<<<<<
WILLMOT Thirza Letford Lambeth 4 23
Do you have a reference number for the birth cert? (for James William b1845 - where was he born - can't see him on freebmd.)
The child born 1848 has a VERY similar middle name to Amelia's maiden name, do I am inclined to think it may be the correct marriage
Births Sep 1848 (>99%)
Warren Edward Penioud Languin Stourbridge 18 518
If you are certain of the children it may be worth getting at least one of their birth certs, just to confim the mother's maiden name (mmn).
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Silvery, thank you for all that ,no, I do not have a reference number for the birth cert, where did you see Edward's names? I am not certain about anything but you have given me much more than I 've ever had,very good
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Silvery , james 's birth is on Ancestral File,Familysearch.org James William Henry Warren b 1845 Birmingham .
BIRTH cert would give you the father's name and occupation, and the mother's maiden name.
But the MARRIAGE cert would give this information plus their ages and their fathers' names which is extremely useful in tracing them, and the father's name could be a reference point for the birth certificate. (So you could eliminate any with the wrong father)
You have the reference for the marriage cert.
Order from the General Register Office (GRO) cost £7
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
reference
Marriages Sep 1840 (>99%)
Hodges Sarah Lambeth 4 238
Jennings John Lambeth view
LYON James Lambeth 4 238
Nicholls Joseph Lambeth 4 238
PENICUD Amelia Lambeth 4 238 <<<<<<<<<
WALTERS Ann Lambeth 4 238
WARREN Henry Lambeth 4 238 <<<<<<<<<
WILLMOT Thirza Letford Lambeth 4 23
Do you have a reference number for the birth cert? (for James William b1845 - where was he born - can't see him on freebmd.)
The child born 1848 has a VERY similar middle name to Amelia's maiden name, do I am inclined to think it may be the correct marriage
Births Sep 1848 (>99%)
Warren Edward Penioud Languin Stourbridge 18 518
If you are certain of the children it may be worth getting at least one of their birth certs, just to confim the mother's maiden name (mmn).
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I can't find James William b1845 on the IGI at the moment, tho I'm not sure what you mean by 'ancestral search'. However that doesn't surprise me! (being me) >:(
Perhaps you had better come forward in time, in order to work back.
Have you got your grandfather's marriage certificate?
Who did your grandfather marry? It would be better to start with him, and then check backwards. Go through the census etc. But someone else will need to come in here, because I don't have an ancestry sub at the moment.
From your grandfather's marriage certificate you would be sure of the name of his father.
But we can check for the marriage on freebmd. http://www.freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl if we have the name of his wife.
Do you know who your grandfather's siblings were?
[ Jane - message three - had Edward b1848 details - from the census.]
Can't find James William b1845 on Ancestral File either.
What was his wife's name? first name might do.
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[Silvery, you go to familysearch.org, this program is run by church of Latter Day Saints= LDS when page comes up , look to left hand side index, select second on list Ancestral file. this is the search engine for info ,put in my grandfather's name james william henry warren born 1845 england then search, you will get his wife and children, one being my father Harry warren 1888 . my grandfather's siblings are the children of henry and Amelia my grandfather is James William as seen on 1861 Westminster census,I do have a number here in Melbourne for marriage cert which I could , what do you think?James William born 1845 married in 1875 inVictoria wife's name Grace Stephens born1855 Victoria parents were William Stephens b 1831 in Nancekuke, Mother Alice Crothers b1832 Nancekuke Eng .....get quote author=silvery link=topic=266140.msg1511578#msg1511578 date=1194297706]
I can't find James William b1845 on the IGI at the moment, tho I'm not sure what you mean by 'ancestral search'. However that doesn't surprise me! (being me) >:(
Perhaps you had better come forward in time, in order to work back.
Have you got your grandfather's marriage certificate?
Who did your grandfather marry? It would be better to start with him, and then check backwards. Go through the census etc. But someone else will need to come in here, because I don't have an ancestry sub at the moment.
From your grandfather's marriage certificate you would be sure of the name of his father.
But we can check for the marriage on freebmd. http://www.freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl if we have the name of his wife.
Do you know who your grandfather's siblings were?
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Blimey :-[ :-[ :-[ what a ......... I am. You DID say in one of the replies married to Grace Stephens, Australia. Oh Oh Oh Pay attention silvery.
I was searching in UK. Right got it! So you are happy with the census returns info etc etc. Forget marriage cert for your grandfather. My fault.
Just that marriage cert then for Amelia and Henry 1840, for the father's names. Then you can go back - possibly on the igi. It may be that one from Kenn, you never know. It's definitely igi or parish records for that time.
It's a nice very early marriage cert to have. My earliest is 1853. And then they fade out in Ireland. No chance of finding them.
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Silvery I will apply on line for Henry's marriage cert , which program did you find Edward's second name, I find that name unusual. For the past 15yrs i have been searching my Mother'sCornwall side, Reseigh, Colenso weymouth, White, hocking etc, then my Welsh Bowens which has been very difficult but lately i've had some luck, my g'g' grandmother was irish Sarah Burns 1823 she married James Crothers of Illogan cornwall,it could go on forever ,but I so enjoy searching.quote author=silvery link=topic=266140.msg1511646#msg1511646 date=1194300449]
Blimey :-[ :-[ :-[ what a ......... I am. You DID say in one of the replies married to Grace Stephens, Australia. Oh Oh Oh Pay attention silvery.
I was searching in UK. Right got it! So you are happy with the census returns info etc etc. Forget marriage cert for your grandfather. My fault.
Just that marriage cert then for Amelia and Henry 1840, for the father's names. Then you can go back - possibly on the igi. It may be that one from Kenn, you never know. It's definitely igi or parish records for that time.
It's a nice very early marriage cert to have. My earliest is 1853. And then they fade out in Ireland. No chance of finding them.
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Glad you aren't mad at me !
Births Sep 1848
Warren Edward Penioud Languin Stourbridge 18 518
That is from freebmd
http://www.freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
It is just very circumstantial with the middle name. Amelia Penicud on the marriage reference, they are just so alike. (given odd pronunciation, accents, spelling and so on). I wonder why they gave him that middle name, he's not the eldest or anything.
Freebmd is very good, but it wasn't compulsory to register until 1875 (I think about that year). That is where the marriage reference is from. Penicud/Penicott etc sounds vaguely Cornish to me. I wouldn't be surprised.
You're so lucky having English ancestry. Mine are nearly all Irish. I had one Welsh Jones line. My, but they seemed to throw themselves at me, which was most unusual. And it was all confirmed by another researcher I so so wish I had an Enlgish line to research. My ex-OH has a lovely English background. Did it for the family. Managed to get wills and all sorts.
Well I hope Edward is yours. Let us know how you get on.
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No Iam not mad at you, maybe at myself, everything for me can be difficult,
I have no sense of direction so I seem to go round the mulberry bush quite a few times before I find the answer, Ihave just ordered marriage cert ,looking
forward to its arrrival .
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Suz , many thanks for your offer I would love to have those copies, I have ordered online for Henry's and Amelia's marriage cert' which will give me new leads , hopefully ;)
Not much help as far as births go -but I have them in 1841 and 1851 if you need them
Suz
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Silvery, henry's marriage certificate arrived today, not much info on it.... Aug 9th 1840 h. warren, bootmaker of regent st, Surry, father's name john warren bootmaker, amelia penicud of manners st, surry, father john penicud mariner. I have searched everywhere i know but cannot find anything execpt perhaps john's wife could be a mary toms 'marriage 28/10/1806 Christow, devon, she christened 05/07/1784 devon. i cannot find a birth for john warren nor do i have a full birth date for henry,
can you help.
quote author=silvery link=topic=266140.msg1511752#msg1511752 date=1194304050]
Glad you aren't mad at me !
Births Sep 1848
Warren Edward Penioud Languin Stourbridge 18 518
That is from freebmd
http://www.freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl
It is just very circumstantial with the middle name. Amelia Penicud on the marriage reference, they are just so alike. (given odd pronunciation, accents, spelling and so on). I wonder why they gave him that middle name, he's not the eldest or anything.
Freebmd is very good, but it wasn't compulsory to register until 1875 (I think about that year). That is where the marriage reference is from. Penicud/Penicott etc sounds vaguely Cornish to me. I wouldn't be surprised.
You're so lucky having English ancestry. Mine are nearly all Irish. I had one Welsh Jones line. My, but they seemed to throw themselves at me, which was most unusual. And it was all confirmed by another researcher I so so wish I had an Enlgish line to research. My ex-OH has a lovely English background. Did it for the family. Managed to get wills and all sorts.
Well I hope Edward is yours. Let us know how you get on.
:'(
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posts getting messy lucaduca. Could you just hit the 'reply' button, and do post?
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Silvery, henry's marriage certificate arrived today, not much info on it.... Aug 9th 1840 h. warren, bootmaker of regent st, Surry, father's name john warren bootmaker, amelia penicud of manners st, surry, father john penicud mariner. I have searched everywhere i know but cannot find anything execpt perhaps john's wife could be a mary toms 'marriage 28/10/1806 Christow, devon, she christened 05/07/1784 devon. i cannot find a birth for john warren nor do i have a full birth date for henry,
can you help.
Will have a go later, have to go out now. How old were they on the marriage cert?
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silvery, Their age listed as 'full', one of the marrriage witness's is a J B price, on the 1881 Surry census,Ancestry.co.uk John penicud age 60 of devonport listed as visitor, others are; Jane wood and John Price wood.
In familysearch.org Devon census
James B price widower , occupation Cutler(Master)? 10 King st, Stoke Damerel
also at number 10 king st, family of Charles Price working Cutler, age 35 wife
Hanna 35, son Charles 13, son Frederick 10, visitor Evalena Hunking,
perhaps a connection here.