RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: moken on Saturday 03 November 07 07:42 GMT (UK)
-
James Kennedy\ Jessie Pringle Married 1893 Kinning Park Glasgow
-
And what did you want to know?
Have you worked back to them and got any descendants?
-
Hi Silvery
Thank you for responding
I cant find James'es parents or thiers
Regards
Kenny
-
Have you got the marriage certificate?
This would give you the fathers' names, and would give you, at least, a clue of what to look for.
You need to be looking in Scotland's People, which is pay per view (ppv) but apparently very good.
If you look on the 'stickies' on the top of the page, Falkyrn has done a thread about Scottish info.
-
Their parents, from the marriage cert are:
John Kennedy and Janet McIntyre
James Pringle and Janet Aird
Gadget
-
John Kennedy was a house painter and James Pringle was (possibly - bad writing) an Iron Turner.
Gadget
-
Hello moken,
It seems that Gadget has very kindly purchased the marriage certificate.
Scottish certificates give heaps of information, and the (pay per view) site, ScotlandsPeople at:
http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
is excellent.
It has OPR entries, statutory BDMs, censuses, and wills.
And, if you are in Scotland, you can visit GROS at New Register House in Edinburgh, and the Mitchell Library in Glasgow, etc, etc, etc.
It's always a good idea first to have a look at the (free) IGI (International Genealogical Index) at:
http://www.familysearch.org
There's the following possible (extracted) marriage in the IGI:
John KENNEDY m Janet (Janet & Jessie often interchangeable) MCINTYRE, 20 Mar 1863, Stirling, Stirlingshire
But I don't see any children to them in the IGI.
The IGI also has:
James PRINGLE m Janet AIRD, 3 Jun 1864, Blythswood, Glasgow, Lanark
And there are the following children to a couple of those names:
John PRINGLE 1862 Kilmarnock
James PRINGLE 1864 Springburn, Lanark
Jeanie Aird PRINGLE 1866 Central District, Glasgow
Elisabeth PRINGLE 1870 Central District, Glasgow
Jessie PRINGLE 1872 Central District, Glasgow
William PRINGLE 1874 Central District, Glasgow
Have fun!
JAP
-
It seems that Gadget has very kindly purchased the marriage certificate.
Strangely, I didn't in this instance. I searched and found that I'd got them about 2 years ago ???
Kenny - Just to add to what JAP says about the IGI - after mid-1870s there are very few Scottish parish records on it but before that, it should be the first port of call :)
These are good threads to start with for Scottish research:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,24468.0.html
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,43916.0.html
Gadget
-
Gadget,
Interesting that you obtained the certificate about 2 years ago. Is there perhaps another RootsChatter researching the same family ???
Yes, those are good threads you recommend (have to say that - I occasionally posted there!).
mokben,
Pre-1855, ScotlandsPeople (SP) has only OPR records (i.e. records of church registers) of the established (presbyterian) Church of Scotland.
There were churches of quite separate denominations in Scotland (e.g. Roman Catholic, Episcopalian, etc) but, most importantly, there were also many breakaway Presybterian churches. See:
http://website.lineone.net/~davghalgh/churchhistory.html
A very few, but not many, of the records of those other Scots Presbyterian churches are in the IGI - none are on SP.
From 1855 to about 1875 (with a few later extractions), the LDS extraction program included births and marriages from the Scottish Statutory Registers. A fantastic resource!
Regards,
JAP
-
I wasn't on Rootschat 2 years ago, JAP. It must have been for somebody as they are not in my tree ???
In those days, if you remember, we had to rush to use up our units by a certain time.
Gadget :)
-
Hmmmm! This is a bit academic but ...
We didn't ever have to rush to use up our SP credits by a certain time.
That is to say, we didn't ever actually lose unused credits.
Unquestionably in the past there was a much tighter time limit (idiotically short in my view) on using credits without having to purchase more credits. Though admittedly, when one purchased more credits, the earlier unused credits would be added to the newly purchased credits and the time limit applying to the new credits would then apply also to the earlier unused credits.
Well, that's all in the past - and certainly nowadays the time limit has been enormously expanded. And still, in the same way, one doesn't lose credits if the time limit is exceeded.
Sorry moken, that's a bit of a sidetrack ;D
JAP
-
hi gadget pal,
here is the pringle family in the census as a wee starter...
1881 census- kinning park
james...age 40...iron turner...born glasgow
janet...age 36...born kilmarnock
james...age 16...iron turner
jean...age 14 (middle name aird)
elizabeth...age 11 (middle name mckay)
jessie...age 8
william...age 5
agnes...age 3 (middle name aird0
robert...age 1
joe
-
Thanks, Joe - so Iron turner was correct :D
Gadget
-
Hello Joe,
So the family matches the children of James PRINGLE & Janet AIRD which I posted from the IGI - James, Jean, Elizabeth, Jessie, and William. Agnes & Robert after the usual cut-off for IGI births extracted from the Scottish statutory registers.
Excellent!
JAP
PS: A possibility for Janet AIRD??
Janet AIRD, parents Thomas AIRD & Grace JOHNSTON, b 21 Mar 1844, Kilmarnock, Ayr
-
yip gadget, well done again,
1871 census- 385 parliamentary road, glasgow
james...age 30...engine finisher
janet...age 26
john...age 8
james...age 6
jean...age 4
elizabeth...age 9 months
william aird...age 24...engine finisher
all children born kilmarnock.
joe
-
yip, well done jap
Joe
-
Hi Joe,
In the 1871, all children b Kilmarnock doesn't quite fit ...
JAP
-
Hi Joe,
In the 1871, all children b Kilmarnock doesn't quite fit ...
JAP
I wonder if it was a 'do' after Janet on the household schedule that got transcribed into the census book.
What does it say on the 1881, Joe?
Gadget
-
hi all,
1891 census- 159 west scotland street, kinning park
james...age 49...iron turner
janet...age 46
james...age 25...iron turner
jean...age 23...dressmaker
elizabeth...age 20...general servant
jessie...age 18...fancy box maker
william...age 15...iron turner
agnes...age 13
robert...age 11
1901 census- 124 stanley street, kinning park
james...age 60...iron turner
janet...age 56
william...age 24...bridge builder's draughtsman
agnes...age 22...fancy box maker
robert...age 19...iron turner
edward...grandson...age 9
joe
-
yes it is only that census that says kilmarnock!!!
Joe
-
Thanks Joe - I've just had a look :)
It was probably one of those census errors - by the person or the enumerator ::)
Makes searching that much more interesting
Gadget
-
now if i had the names of james and janet's parents we could go back another step for kenny, unfortunatly there is 4 james pringles on the 1851 all born glasgow.
joe
-
Is that a wee hint, Joe :)
Looks like they married early 1860s.
Gadget
-
Married Blytheswood 3 May 1864
James Pringle's parents - John Pringle, joiner and Jane McWhinnie
Janet Aird's parents - William Aird, carpet weaver and Jane Little
No mention of deceased after any names.
-
hi gadget pal,
well done, i have already posted the details of john pringle, joiner and his wife
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,265838.0.html
will find the details for janet
Joe
-
gadget,
may i say that you are wonderful at taking a hint.... ;D
Joe
-
Joe - it's nice to see that it's coming together :)
I'm just wondering if we ought to ask a Mod to move this thread to the Lanarkshire Board :-\
Gadget
-
great idea pal,
may i say whit a pleasure working with you again
Joe
-
hi pal,
wonder if this is them as janet is at a uncle's house in 1861
1861 census- old cart lane, kilmarnock
william...age 40...wool carpet weaver
jean...age 41
margaret...age 15...block printer's assistant
william...age 13...block printer's boy (same william on 1871?)
robert...age 11...block printer's boy
agnes...age 8
anne...age 5
mary...age 1
Joe
-
I dont know if when you send a message from the bottom of the page if it sends to all But thank you all for your info great to know that people help
Very best regards
Kenny
-
This is strange, Joe
i can only find children of William Aird and Jean Thorburn/Torbet in Kilmarnock - the younger ones match.
It's definitely Little on the Marriage cert.
I'll go look some more!
Gadget
I hope we're helping you Kenny :)
-
thought it weird too gadget,
i could find nothing on the lds site
1871 census- 7 sandbed street, kilmarnock
william...age 60...carpet weaver
jean...age 52
robert...mechine turner
agnes...age 19...calico printer
annie...age 14...printer's assistant
mary...age 11
Joe
-
Only Janet Aird that I've found on the IGI around the correct time in Kilmarnock was b. 21 Mar 1844 to Thomas Aird and Grace Johnston.
:-\
Gadget
-
hi gadget
in all the censuses she says she is born stranraer, wigtownshire but i cannot find her on the 1851 census as little or aird, as jean or jane!!!!!
Joe
-
forgot to mention...
this looks like them in the 1881 census
3 soulis street, kilmarnock
william...age 60...herbalist
jane...age 62...whisk stripper
do not know how he got from carpet weaver to herbalist!
Joe
-
and again in 1891
main street, kilmaurs
william...age 70...herbalist
jane...age 72...herbalist assistant
Joe
-
THink we're getting the Janet's mixed up, Joe - not surprising given that the females seem all to be called variations of this.
I've just found that JAP had also come up with the same one as me :
PS: A possibility for Janet AIRD??
Janet AIRD, parents Thomas AIRD & Grace JOHNSTON, b 21 Mar 1844, Kilmarnock, Ayr
So was it Jane Little who was born Wigtownshire?
Gadget
-
yes gadget,
jane little
Joe
-
Problem solved with a few units:
Janet Pringle, nee Aird died 17 June 1907. her parents were William Aird and Jeanie Torbit - so why Little on the marriage cert ::) ::) ::)
So she fits in with these:
i can only find children of William Aird and Jean Thorburn/Torbet in Kilmarnock - the younger ones match.
It's definitely Little on the Marriage cert.
Gadget
-
hi pal,
well done you,
is this our janet aird?
1861 census- 81 portland street, kilmarnock
david aird...age 47...coachman
janet aird...niece...age 17...domestic servant
joe
-
Could be if William had a brother David, Joe.
i'm going to have to check out soon but I'll have a quick look around.
Gadget
-
hi gadget,
regarding the aird's...
1841 census- langlands road, kilmarnock
margaret...age 45...ind
william...age 20...carpet weaver
marion...age 20...dressmaker
agnes...age 20...dressmaker
david...age 15
james...age 15
jean...age 11
1851 census- railboy house, kilmarnock
margaret...age 61...housekeeper
david...age 37...coachman
marion...age 31
agnes...age 29...dressmaker
jane...age 20...milliner
david...age 14...nephew
Joe
-
HI Joe and Kenny and JAP
I've just been reading through this thread again :)
As a summary
James Kennedy's parents were John Kennedy and Janet McIntyre
Jessie Pringle's parents were James Pringle and Janet Aird
James Pringle's parents were John Pringle and
Jane McWhinnie
Janet Aird's parents were William Aird and Jane
Little/Torbet/Thorburn/Turbit
I've also noticed Kenny's early posting:
Hi Silvery
Thank you for responding
I cant find James'es parents or thiers
Regards
Kenny
So maybe we'd better look into John Kennedy and Janet McIntyre now :-\
Gadget
-
I've been trying to get a fix on our James in the 1901 and the 1891 but I can't seem to find him :(
From the wedding cert of Feb 1893, James was 19 (b.c. 1873/4) and his parent's were not stated as deceased. He and his father were house painters.
It's a fairly common name in Scotland so a bit difficult to just find a birth and nothing at all with those parents
Gadget
-
Found this in 1881. Not sure if it's any use?
Residence: 27 Lower Craigs, Stirling, Stirlingshire
John Kennedy, m, head, 34, painter house, Stirling
James ", m, son, 12, scholar, Stirling
There's a possible for young James in 1891 (aged 19, however) in Glasgow, lodging with the McRae family and he's a house painter. John is back in Stirling (44, house painter) with wife Janet (born c. 1843 in Tullibody, Clackmannanshire).
Only possible birth on the IGI that I can see is John Kennedy, born 25th August 1870 in Stirling. Parents John Kennedy and Janet Geoch. :-\
hume24
-
That looks very promising, hume :D
****James was 19 on his marriage cert in 1893****
It fits in with the marriage that JAP found in Stirlingshire. I'll check the marriage ref for parents. i think it's worth it :)
Gadget
Added - but it would mean that John was 16 at marriage - how frequent was this then?
-
Umph - no image :(
-
IGI has only one Janet/Jane/Jean in Clackmannan (Alloa) b. 16 July 1842. Parents - Robert McIntyre and Agnes Drysdale
:-\
-
Not sure if that was the correct ones. :-\ A 1901 entry would help us a lot, but can't find them anywhere...
Do we know of any children??
hume24
-
Not so far, hume - maybe Kenny could give us some info on offspring :)
-
Hi Gadget and HUME
jAMES kENNEDY AND JESSIE PRINGLE Have son Edward Harvie Pringle May 1891 out of wedlock but later marry then have son William 1882
many thanks
Kenny
-
Hi Kenny,
Edward is with his grandparents in 1901, so no help there. :( Joe kindly posted the 1901 entry earlier in the thread;
1901 census- 124 stanley street, kinning park
james...age 60...iron turner
janet...age 56
william...age 24...bridge builder's draughtsman
agnes...age 22...fancy box maker
robert...age 19...iron turner
edward...grandson...age 9
hume24
-
Anything on son William ? birth 1892 or 1902? Kenny
Gadget
-
Hi Gadget
Son William born june 30 1892 marries Isabella Sawers Dec 29 1923
Plantation Kinning Park Her Parents are William Sawers and Isabella Scott
this is all I Know. Edward Pringle did not Know William was his Brother as Edward was raised by his grand parents thinfing they were his parents
Regards
Kenny
-
thanks, Kenny. So we should be focusing on William Kennedy b. 1892 :)
-
Having problems with the 1901 but Jessie died Tradeston, 1935, widow of James, house painter. Informant was William, also liing Glasgow.
So where were they in 1901 >:(
Gadget
-
I think they were in Bellahouston
-
Kenny
i've searched for them all - and can't find them in 1901 - all sorts of spellings :( Did they have any other children that you know of?
Gadget
-
Hi Gadget as far as I know only two I will speak to the oldest cousin I have left he is in Canada and see if he know's
Kenny
-
I think that might be best, Kenny. I've searched on everything that I can think of in the Glasgow area :-\
Gadget
-
hi pal,
see a marriage for john kennedy amd janet mcintyre 20/3/1863 stirling
i need someone to check the 1871 census!!!
1871 census- 94 baker street, stirling
john...age 29...baker?
janet...age 36...born tullibody clackmannanshire
james...age 3
agnes carrie(kennedy) dau?...age 24...housekeeper
burtchell carrie...grandson?...age 3
henrietta carrie...grand-daughter?...age 2
charles carrie...grandson?...age 3 months
charles weddell...son?...age 19...smith
1891 census- 60 baker street, stirling
john...age 44...house painter
janet...age 48
Joe
-
Hi Joe
I have just looked at it on I G I
I will put more monie in Scotlandspeople for the cerificate
Thank you for you're ,and ever-ones time and effort most appreciated
Kenny
-
Kenny
That's the one that I looked at - no image! Don't waste yer units!
Gadget
Umph - no image :(
-
Thank you Gadget ::)
-
Hi Gadget, Kenny and all,
Have we tried finding a death for James' mother? I've found a few possible, just using the free search on SP:
- Janet, aged 53, in 1893 Stirlingshire
- Janet, aged 67, in 1900 Lanarkshire
- Jane, aged 62, in 1913 Renfrewshire
- Jane, aged 64, in 1913 Perthshire
- Jeanie, aged 84, in 1935 Renfrewshire
Obviously the first is quite promising!
hume24
-
Thank you Hume and all ,
Dates on highlight look good I will delve into this soon
Any info on a ,Jean baptiste Prerrier LaFleur and Marie Dervie having child John Pringle 1640 in Kilmarnock ?
Regards
Kenny
-
James Kennedy\ Jessie Pringle Married 1893 Kinning Park Glasgow
Hey Moken, someone has just tied your post to mine and its very interesting, im looking into the same family as you, but both sides of my family know that im doing this and no one has mentioned they have already done it, which makes me think how we could be related.... please could you get back me and let me know how you got on with the family tree, i know these posts are from 2007 so maybe your not on this site any more .......fingers crossed you are... :)