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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Nottinghamshire => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Friday 02 November 07 21:10 GMT (UK)
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Hi, Everyone,
Have today been greatly helped here on another thread on the Notts section in finding the final resting place of my gt-gt-gt-grandfather William FELLS. He died in March 1870 at the age of 75, and his address at his death was "George Inn Yard", Clarborough.
In the 1871 Census his widow Jane still seems to be living here. I've tried googling for a pub or inn with the George as its name, without success, and would like to know whether anyone with local knowledge might know of the existence of a hostelry with this name in this area, perhaps many years before 1870.
I know lots of alleyways and yards in London, for instance, have the names of long-gone pubs or inns attributed to them. Could this be the case here?
Very best wishes,
keith
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http://www.nottshistory.org.uk/articles/tts/tts1933/itinerary1933p1.htm
not sure where in Nottingham this is Keith..
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Hepburn,
Thanks very much for coming up with that. The article doesn't say exactly where The George Inn was located, if indeed it was in Nottingham. I suppose the yard in Clarborough might have been named after a (fairly) near, well-known hostelry - there was an even more famous one by this name in Southwark, south London.
But I do feel it is more likely that a pub or inn by that name actually once stood where this yard was in 1870. In Ely, Cambs, for instance, there is an area called Woolpack Yard, and you used to be able to see the gable end of the long-gone pub The Woolpack patterned onto the brick of the building next door...
keith
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Hi Keith,
I didn't get anything Googling Clarborough! and i think I spelt it right... :D(have I spelt spelled right)?
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Nottingham and stopped at the "George Inn" for the purpose of making a sketch of it. ... It was originally a yard which went by the name of Gears' Yard, ...
Keith ,
I went on the site I gave you and did a search,the only "George inn yard" is the one above..
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Hepburn,
Yes, that was what I discovered. I was really surprised that googling didn't come up with a whole selection of George Inn's around the County of Notts - isn't it a very popular name in that part of the world, it certainly is further south...?
keith
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Still looking....
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Wasn't there a George inn yard in Whitechapel?
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The search never stops... but I'm off for an early night now as it's an early start tomorrow morning to get parked inside the police blockades 2 hours before the kick-off in the Arsenal v Man U game in North London. I bet I notice a few George Inn's on the way there...
Thanks very much for keeping on the trail for me,
keith
...and I'm sure you're right about the one in Whitechapel. I think the place in Robertsbridge, E. Sussex, where Hillaire Belloc used to enjoy a pint was the George Inn too.
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http://www.nottinghamhistory.co.uk/local/streets.htm
You're welcome Keith,old maps here,not sure whether they're applicable,but they are interesting...have a good day tomorrow
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Hello again Keith,
There doesn’t seem to be many references of the “George Inn” to help locate exactly where it was but I did find this old query from the Nottsgen mailing list – at least I have a better idea now as to which area it was.
http://www.mail-archive.com/nottsgen-l@rootsweb.com/msg04050.html
Best Wishes
Sheila.
ps
have a good day tomorrow ;D
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Nottingham and stopped at the "George Inn" for the purpose of making a sketch of it. ... It was originally a yard which went by the name of Gears' Yard, ...
Keith ,
I went on the site I gave you and did a search,the only "George inn yard" is the one above..
The main subject in the referred document is St Peter's Gate in Nottingham city centre. I suspect the George Inn mentioned would have been nearby, perhaps in George Street. This is many miles from Clarborough (just north of Retford in the north of Nottinghamshire - Nottingham City is in the south of the county).
Sherwood.
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Thanks for all those further efforts to get at the truth of the matter while I have been getting my beauty sleep, and the finding by Dizzifish about an area called Moorgate for the George inn and also, was it, Spital Hill for the location of the Workhouse until it was pulled down are both significant I think.
I'm asking another question now - would the Union Workhouse in Clarborough still have been there when Jane FELLS (nee RILEY?) died in 1884.
Feel we're much closer to location of the George Inn, too...
Must go and get my Robin Van Persie Arsenal shirt on, even though he's injured and not playing today. There ARE other things in life apart from Family History, but nothing quite as fascinating or all-absorbing...
keith
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...and Sherwood,
Thanks very much for your local knowledge of the area. By the by, are you actually a member of the SHERWOOD family, as I am, though I have to say my roots with this branch are all strictly Sussex from the 20thC back to the 16thC at least? Can't lay any claim to Sherwood Forest and the surrounding area - apart from this FELLS family, that is...
keith
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Hi, im still on the case also and about to go and see if i can find william fells or jane fells/riley gravestone.
The george inn yard is proving very elusive at the mo and certainly dosent exist now.. moorgate is a area within clarborough and was according to the census near the retford union workhouse and spittle hill. Clarborough is in retford, nottinghamshire and is no where near nottingham. In fact we are closer to yorkshire so no point looking at pubs in nottingham. the retford union workhouse was in existance up until at least 1901 as jane riley/fells daughter in law and some of her children were there after the death of Edward Riley.
Also to add to the confusion regarding location moorgate is now considered to be part of retford and has been absorbed into the main town and isnt part of clarborough at all. Spittle hill or as it is now known spital hill runs into leverton road.
just trying to get as much info in as possible1 Fingers crossed i will find some more clues at th gaves stone, if its not been removed!
Diane :P
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hi again ,
forgot to say that retford was on the main route north and south and was a fairly major stopping off point which is why even today we have way more pubs/inns than would normally be the case for a town of this size. alot of the older pubs had stables etc for the horses and coaches so it may be possible the yard mentioned was part of a large coaching inn?
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Just got back from the church yard, sorry no fells at all though there were some good old gravestones from as early as 1830 in brilliant readable condition. I have also discoverd that jane fells did die in the retford union workhouse so at least we have cleared that up! Still lots of questions though
??? ??? ??? ???
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Nice one Diddy... ;)
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Diddydi,
Well, you have been busy while I've been down in Islington all day long. Just got back after 16 hours out of the house to discover that you'd trekked to the Churchyard to search for those graves, and have now found that Jane FELLS/RILEY did indeed die in the Workhouse.
If I'd have been a celebrity and had an episode dedicated to me, on WDYTYA I expect some local historians would have been on the trail trying to discover how it was that Jane ended up dying in a workhouse when at one time she had been married to a man who was apparently doing quite well for himself...
Thanks so much for all your excellent sleuthing,
keith
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Hi Keith,
A bit of googling revealed an address of the Inn.
Fanny Marsh: born 19 Nov 1891 George Inn yard 59 Moorgate,East Retford.
Hope this helps,
Mark.
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Mark,
Thank you so much for turning that up for me, the plot thickens! Does this make any further sense, Diddydi...?
keith
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Hello,
Your chat came up in the search results when I wanted more info about my ancestor Jane RILEY. I've just bought a copy of her 1859 marriage certificate (to Mr FELLS), as there doesn't seem to be any hope of finding evidence of her first marriage.
I now know her father's name was William SEAMAN. This is progress after trying to find out about Jane born in Ireland in 1808!
In the 1841 census I have two branches of family, my maternal grandmother's grandmothers (RILEY & HAGUE) & their children on opposite corners of the same page. Two of those women later died in Retford Union workhouse, I must come from very uncaring stock.
Berry Daines
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Hi, Berry, and welcome to Rootschat!
About two and a half years since this thread was vibrating with life, so I need to go away and look at my notes and refresh my knowledge on this branch of my family...
But it does look as though we are related, so that's of course very exciting. Will be in touch again very soon, and it may well be, that as this thread is alive again, since it became quiet there may be other people out there who have become involved with Rootschat since November 2007 and who might be able to add to our knowledge about workhouses and life in general in this part of the world in the 1880's.
Very best wishes, keith
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Hi again, Berry,
I wonder whether you could tell me where Jane RILEY (nee SEAMAN) was in the 1841 Census. The only person vaguely fitting her profile I could find was in Westminster, with a man called Edward RILEY, who was the same age as her, and could have been her husband. I notice that in the 1851 and 1861 Censuses in Nottinghamshire she has a son called Edward living with her...
Regards, keith
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Hello again,
Yes, we are related by marriage, their wedding was 5 days before Christmas so hopefully a jolly time. I've noticed some of my Notts folk seemed fond of marrying their siblings-in-law, so we may find other people in common!
The Rileys lived in Clarborough, East Retford. Another researcher (Diane? I can't find her now) had a copy of my great-grandmother Mary Ann's marriage cert from 1857 with the bride's father listed as Thomas Riley, jeweller, dead - but D also suggests elsewhere that he died in April 1860(?) He seems to be away for this census, they had two more sons by 1851.
1841 Census:
RILEY, Jane F 25 b.Ireland
RILEY, Eliza F 6 b.Nottinghamshire
RILEY, Mary A F 5 b.Nottinghamshire
RILEY, Charles F 2 b.Nottinghamshire
RG number: HO107 Piece:849 Book/Folio:22/7 Page:27
Registration District: East Retford Sub District: Clareborough
Civil Parish: Clareborough
Address: Spital Hill, Clareborough, Little Gringley County:Nottinghamshire
Also had this from somewhere:
# ID: 302838993
# Name: Jane Riley
# Sex: F
# Birth: ABT 1808 in Ireland
# Death: 1884 in Retford Union Workhouse
# Note: Jane Fells died in the Retford union workhouse in 1884
# RFN: 302838993
Marriage 1 Thomas Riley b: ABT 1804 in Nottinghamshire England
Children:
1. Eliza Riley b: 1835 in Clarborough Retford Notts
2. Mary Ann Riley b: 24th Aug 1836 in Clarborough, Nottinghamshire, England (father named as Thos)
3. Charles Riley b: 1839 in Clarborough Retford Notts
4. Edward Riley b: 1842 in RETFORD Nottinghamshire
5. Henry Riley b: 1844 in Clarborough Retford
Marriage 2 William Fells b: 1796 in Elkesley Retford Notts
.....which is where your family tree is spliced! Is that the word?
Cheers. B
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Berry,
Thanks for all that wonderful information on your RILEY family! (Whenever I see the name RILEY I'm reminded of those tragic plague RILEY graves in Eyam, Derbyshire, right on the edge of village, where a Mrs RILEY buried her husband and all her children one after the other, then apparently moved away from the village and was never heard of again)
But back to our own RILEY's, I've just looked at the 1871 Census and note that it very clearly gives Jane's address as 66, Moorgate, Clarborough, and this number in Moorgate is quite distinctly given as "George Inn Yard". This as a rejoinder to what has been discussed earlier in the thread...
Did you say that you've never discovered Jane SEAMAN's first marriage to a Thomas RILEY, presumably some time shortly before 1835 - I must say I'm not at all sure whether I've got the marriage details of her second marriage to William FELLS either. Will now go and check. Please keep this dialogue going, and I'm sure we'll uncover something new pretty soon!
Regards, keith
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I'll send you a pdf of the RILEY/FELLS certificate if you need one. I'd delayed buying it but then found a price increase was due in April so decided it was essential(!) and I've shared it with a few other cousins.
Eyam - very sad place, one of my friends was a warden at the youth hostel there about 12 years ago. I wonder what kind of life that Mrs Riley lived after losing everyone......
As for yards behind pubs, my DAINES family lived at the Staff of Life yard in Norwich in 1841. That public house was licensed to a Sarah DAYNES. Strange coincidence, they were allegedly not related.
Back to the 21st century now......
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Berry,
That would be most generous of you. I've sent you a PM (Personal Message) with my e-mail address.
Now to find that pre-1835 Thomas RILEY/Jane SEAMAN marriage...
keith
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Hi,
long time no see!!
Im afraid even after all this time i have still got no further with jane riley and her first 'husband' thomas. there was never a census with him living with her and no sign of a marriage. i suspect they could have been from the travelling community and if this is the case may not have actually been legally married. I wonder if thomas was made up? On some of her childrens marriage certs he is dead but then a few years later he isnt! All very frustrating and im not sure it is a mystery that will ever be solved
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I've heard of some other woman visited by an angel who told her she would be with child - nice to think I could've evolved from such a union.
I found lots of Thomas Rileys in Nottinghamshire, maybe Jane shared one of them with her friends? She didn't get to travel far from East Retford, going by the census notes, apart from being born in Ireland, of course.......allegedly.
Berry