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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: wisby on Wednesday 31 October 07 21:25 GMT (UK)
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Arrival in Victoria, Henry Turner and wife Harriet nee Brown, 1869 - 1871.
Later travelled to NSW.
Can anyone help please?
wisby
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Hello there
What sort of help are you after
deaths marriages etc
can you please provide their parents names?
kind regards Jenn
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Hi Jenn,
I'm wanting to know when they arrived, certificates say they came to Vic. Harriet's father John on her death certificate, no information for henry.
They settled near Tenterfield NSW.
wisby
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Hello here
to help further can you please provide a birth year for both so we will know what age we are looking for,
They don't appear to have had children in Victoria though
regards Jenn
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Hello there
anything thing did they arrive with children? or did they have children here
kind regards Jenn
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Wisby and Jenn.....there is this birth entry......
Ellen TURNER born in 1871 at YEA
Parents: Henry TURNER & Harriet BROWNE
Ref: 27522
I know it is Browne rather than Brown....but it could still be the same couple......
....dee
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Hello there Dee
Oh good find allways thinking outside the box. Must admit I only checked Brown.
Kind regards Jenn
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So Wisby
Do you have henry's parentage?
If not does the death certificate say where and when married
regards Jenn
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Hi All,
One certificate says married in Vic another married in England.
Henry born about 1834 Harriet about 1843 both in England.
I have checked the Ellen born in Yea, am not sure if she is theirs. They had Louisa who may have come with them. All other children born in NSW.
wisby
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Hello there
ddid either of them have a county for england listed on the death certificate?
jenn
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Hi Jenn,
I only have England, they were my great grandparents and on my grandfathers marriage certificate it has Charles Henry Turner as his father. All other references to him are Henry. I don't have his death as yet but it was before 1909.
wisby
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Well now Wisby
have you found harriet's death as yet and wher she is buried?
I see you have her death
have you checked where she is buried
is he buried with her
regards Jenn
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Yes Jenn,
Harriet died in Tenterfield and was buried in Stanthorpe QLD which isn't far from Tenterfield. Henry is not there.
wisby
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WAS SHE A WIDOW
jenn
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She died1907, not a widow on certificate.
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I am curious now why Stanthorpe and not Tenterfield ?
regards Jenn
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I have never thought about that!
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Hello wisby,
I think you really need to tell us a lot more about what you know for certain, what certificates you have, and on what you have based the information you have provided e.g.
- why do you say that Henry & Harriet arrived in Vic 1869-1871?
- on which certificates did it say that they were married in Vic or, alternatively, in England?
- where does the information that Henry was b ca 1834 and Harriet ca 1843, both in England come from?
- where does the information that Henry had died by 1909 come from?
- why do you query the birth of Ellen in 1871 in Yea? Do you have that certificate? What are the details on it?
Sorry to ask so many questions but I think it's necessary :)
Looking at the online NSW BDM it seems that Henry & Harriett started having children in Tenterfield in 1877 and stopped by 1883 - so those are useful cut-off dates.
Births, TURNER, parents Henry & Harriet(t) Ann(e), Tenterfield.
*Emily M 1877
*Edwin John 1878
*Marian 1879
*Frederick William 1881
*William Henry 1883
Do you have all or any of those certificates? If so, how do the parental details compare with those of Ellen, b 1871 Yea?
It seems that Marian may have had several children?
TURNER, no father listed, mother as Marian/Marion, Tenterfield
#Cecil J, born and died 1901
#Florence M b 1903
#Elsie A b 1906
#Frederick b & d 1909
And is the following Louisa a daughter of Henry & Harriet?
TURNER, no father listed, mother as Louisa, Tenterfield
#Henry T b 1893
And is this her marriage?
#TURNER Louisa m Robert AINSWORTH, 1893, Tenterfield
And their AINSWORTH children in Tenterfield?
#Harriet 1894
#Robert 1898
#louisa 1900
Etc, etc, etc ...
If Louisa TURNER is a daughter of Henry & Harriet, it would seem that her marriage certificate would be extremely useful as it should give her age and her place of birth.
Just a couple more questions.
- does Harriet's grave in the Stanthorpe Cemetery have a headstone inscription, and is anyone else buried in it?
- are there any relevant graves for family members in the Tenterfield Cemetery?
Regards,
JAP
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I see that there is a digital war service record for William Henry TURNER, b Tenterfield, in the National Archives
And also one for Edwin John TURNER, b Tenterfield 1878.
Go to:
http://naa12.naa.gov.au/
and login as 'guest'.
JAP
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Hi Jap,
These are the certificates I have,
wisby
Death certificate
Harriett Ann Turner death Nov 1907 Wilsons Downfall NSW, buried Stanthorpe cemetery
Father John Brown mother not known. Age 61 born England, 36 years in Aust
Married age 20 England to Henry.
Children
Louisa 38
Ellen 36
Charles H 34
Rose E 32
Emily 30
Edwin J 29
Frederick W 26 (my grandfather)
William H 24
1 female deceased
Birth certificate
Frederick William Turner birth 1881 Wilsons Downfall NSW
Father Henry Turner age 47 born England
Mother Harriet Ann Braun age 38 born England
Other children 2 males living 1 female living
Marriage certificate
Frederick William Turner married Nov 1909 Glen Innes NSW
Father Charles Henry Turner deceased
Mother Harriett Ann Brown deceased
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Hi Jap again,
I have found births for children you mentioned also have checked war records.
Harriet does not have headstone in Stanthorpe cemetery and not with anyone else.
I think your suggestion to get Louisa's certificate a good one, than you, wisby
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Hi again wisby,
What a fascinating place name - Wilsons Downfall! It must be a beautiful spot.
I guess that the death had to be registered in Tenterfield because Wilsons Downfall itself is (just) in NSW though definitely closer to Stanthorpe (Q) than to Tenterfield (NSW).
I lived in Armidale, NSW for many years and have been through Tenterfield and Stanhope but not, I think to Willsons Downfall or its forest (I've been to Bald Rock National Park).
Anyway, from Harriet's dc, it seems that Ellen (b 1871, Yea) is their child given that a 36yo Ellen is listed.
So now we need to find births for Louisa b ca 1869, Charles Henry ca 1872 and Rose E ca 1874. I guess we'll all have a bit of a look around.
I do hope that Louisa's marriage certificate is useful!
Regards,
JAP
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Possible marriages for Rose and Charles?
Rose TURNER & James GALLAGHER, 1896 Tenterfield
Charles H TURNER & Jane MARCH, 1899 Tenterfield (also children to them)
Places of birth on those marriage certs also might help trace where the parents were when Charles and Rose were born ...
JAP
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Hello there
If Ellen born in Victoria is their child wouldn't it be possible that that birth certificate could reveal a lot of information?
Victoria births should have parents name ages place of birth and marriage information
it would be worth the $17.50 download from vic bDM's on line
kind regards Jenn
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Hi wisby,
Have you seen this?
It's at:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/glennbro1/march/march2.htm
33.1.5.1 JANE MARCH (1881- )
Jane was born in on 25 February 1881 at Kangaroo Hills (NSW BDM/B No23964 9081) . She married Charles Henry Turner, labourer of Wilsons Downfall, near Tenterfield, on 15 November 1899 by Mr Richard Dill Mackay, Prebyterian Minister of Tenterfield, at a private house called "Cottesbrook". Jane was listed as a spinister, domestic from Cottesbrook. The bridegroom was aged 26 and the bride 17. The father, Frederick Henry March, consented to the marriage.
Charles Turner was born on 20 July 1873 at Oakey Creek, Warwick. His father, Henry Turner, was a miner born at Dorset, England in 1824. On 5 November 1868 at Melbourne, Victoria, he married Harriet Ann Brown from Cornwall, England. Harriet was born in 1843. Previous children were Louisa (b c1840) and Ellen (b c1842).
There were seven children of the marriage and some decendents are still living in the Tenterfield area.
JAP
Added later PS: It's in the Queensland Historical Indexes
1873/C004132 TURNER Charles Henery, parents Henrey & Harriett Ann Brown
And even later Rose is there too.
1875/C004655 TURNER Rose Elizabeth, parents Henry & Hariett Anne Brown
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Hi Jap, that is fantastic, I haven,t seen it before
wisby
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Hi Jap, I have been looking at the March info, Henry seems to have been ten years older than I had him.
Have to read some more, thank you so much for you help.
wisby
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Hello there
Whilst the March information is a very good find on JAPS part, as she herself would say you cannot assume that the March information is totally accurate!
It does say Louisa and Ellen were born in 1840/1842 which conflicts with the ages on the death certificate of Harriet an actual document.
the girls according to that were born in 1869 and 1871!
kind regards Jenn
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Hi wisby,
Just as well you mentioned Wilsons Downfall!
I then Googled for:
turner + "wilsons downfall"
which is what came up trumps.
In the IGI, there's a Harriet Ann BROWN, parents John BROWN & Mary Ann, bap 13 Apr 1848, Kenwyn Cornwall - a possibility? With others bap the same day and place, and same parents - Nicholas BROWN (on FreeBMD there's an 1844 Redruth birth and an 1845 one for Nicholas James) and Edward Hayes BROWN.
And a marriage of a John BROWN (29, father Nicholas BROWN) and a Mary Anne WILLIAMS (20, father John), 9 Apr 1840 at Madron, Cornwall.
Who knows ...
JAP
PS: Jenn, let's give the owner of the website the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a typo or they were referring to siblings of Harriet's or whatever ... I guess wisby can contact the owner of the site and sort things out.
wisby, there is a form for contacting the website owner at:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/glennbro1/march/
Click on 'email' in the menu at the left.
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Just for completeness.
A Henry TURNER & a Harriett had:
Louisa Harriett TURNER b 5 Dec 1867, bap 26 Jan 1868 Chertsey, Surrey
That doesn't gel with an 1868 marriage in Melbourne
Also the same parents had:
Emily Elizabeth TURNER same birth and baptism dates, same place.
JAP
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Thank you Jap and Jenn, I have more to work with now. Will not take everything as 100%
Wisby
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Dear Wisby,
I agree that it's a good idea now to sit back and digest the information!
Let's hope that the MARCH family historian might have some helpful ideas as to where he/she found the information on her/his website about Henry and Harriet (and Louisa and Ellen ::) ). You might like to alert her/him to this thread?
And perhaps helpful RootsChatters might just manage to find the marriage of Henry & Harriet (Victoria? England? 1868?) and the birth of Louisa ca 1869 (where?).
As you yourself already have conflicting information on the place where Henry & Harriet married (England? Victoria?) that needs investigating further.
But, if I were you, I guess I'd be contacting the MARCH family historian before spending money on Louisa's marriage certificate :)
Best of luck and do let us know if you solve your puzzle - it's always great to see the resolution of a query.
Best regards,
JAP
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PS: Jenn, let's give the owner of the website the benefit of the doubt and assume it was a typo or they were referring to siblings of Harriet's or whatever ... I guess wisby can contact the owner of the site and sort things out.
Quote
JAP my goodness you are mellowing !!! I am smiling writing this
I mean this in a friendly manner . Cause we all do know that you do like facts and figures to be pretty accurate.
regards Jenn
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Hello there
I must admit that at this stage I haven't been able to laocate a marriage of Henry/Henry Charles/Henery TURNER to Harriet/Harriette Brown/Browne/Braun in Vixtoria or in QLD or in Nsw
Perhaps that marriage wasn't registered or dare I say it never happened . If he was older then he may have had a wife back in england. We do encounter this on a regular basis don't we folks ::)
It is a bit daunting for england but I am having a good look.
regards Jenn
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Thank you once again Jenn and Jap,
this has been one of my brickwalls for a long time but now I can look in some new directions.
Have already ordered Louisa's certificate and will contact owner of March site today. Will let you know how things go.
Cheers, wisby
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Hello there Wisby
I don't know if you aware are of this but you can actually order and download immediately online a certificate from the Births Deaths and Marriages from Victoria. The costs is $17.50.
http://online.justice.vic.gov.au/bdm/home
(free to search, AUS$0.99 to view each page
Also in NSW you can use a transcription agent at a considerable discount to the cost of a certificate ordered from the NSW Bdm's site.....and you can get that in just a couple of days too.
Kind regards Jenn
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Thanks Jenn,
I do use a transcription agent, saves plenty of money. Thanks for tip about Vic, haven't bought anything from here yet.
Must get off computer now!
Cheers wisby.
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Hello there
Another researching doing your family Wisby
at Rootsweb
http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi
kind regards Jenn
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There are a couple of WorldConnect entries which, between them, seem to include:
Frederick William TURNER b 1881 Wilson's Downfall, son of Charles Henry/Charles TURNER (b 1834 England) & Harriet BROWN (b 1843 England).
This matches the 1881 birth of Frederick William TURNER, Tenterfield
Frederick marrying Emily Hannah FIDOCK (b SA 1880) in 1909; Emily having first married Donald M(A)CMILLAN in 1902 in Berrigan, NSW who d 1903 Glen Innes (both entries in the online NSW BDM).
NSW BDM has Frederick TURNER m Emily H MACMILLAN, 1909, Glen Innes
Frederick & Emily having Claude 1919, Glen Innes (too late for online births) who marries Edna CAMPBELL, b 1918 in Inverell (strangely, while births stop at 1906, marriages go to 1956!).
NSW BDM has Claude Ernest TURNER marrying Edna May CAMPBELL, 1937, Glen Innes.
Etc.
Perhaps one of these trees might be an old entry of yours wisby?
Cheers,
JAP
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Hi Jap and Jenn,
you are right the family tree entries are mine, have contacted March site owner, still waiting for reply.
Cheers wisby.
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Hi there,
Have downloaded Ellen's birth certificate, she was born Tea Tree Creek near Yea.
Father Henry Turner a miner said to have come from Ashmore, Dorsetshire, England.
Mother Harriet from Cornwall, England.
Married 1870 Collingwood, Melbourne (no record of this)
Will keep looking.
wisby
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Hi Wisby,
So that probably explains where the MARCH website got its information ...
JAP
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Probably Jap,
forgot to say no mention of Louisa on Ellen's birth cert.
Still waiting to hear from March.
wisby
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i am writing to find out information on edwin john turner married to catherine turner nee wallace. i understand that this my my great grandmothers husband. any iformation to trace them both would be gratefull :)
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Hi Sheppo,
Not sure how much info you have, I only have indexes below and if you check Trove 1935 you can read article about poisoning death of Edwin, self inflicted after death of Katherine.
Regards,
wisby
Marriage 1900 Tenterfield
Children
37364/1904 TURNER EDWIN J EDWIN J KATHERINE TENTERFIELD
39680/1906 TURNER DORIS M EDWIN J CATHERINE TENTERFIELD
19288/1908 TURNER WILLIAM H EDWIN J KATHERINE J TENTERFIELD
20229/1910 TURNER EMILY M EDWIN J CATHERINE J STROUD
45907/1911 TURNER MAY B EDWIN J KATHERINE J STROUD
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thanks wisby, information is great, they also had another daughter kathleen francis turner married william clarence shephard 9089/1937, kathleen died 1977. still looking for information on her side as edwin's side is fairly set out by what i have seen, appreciate your help :)