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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: DCS on Tuesday 30 October 07 00:26 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone have any information at all about Ellen Willmott who was a famous horticulturist (1858 - 1938). She owned a grand house in Warley Place, Gt Warley, Essex who at one time employed over 100 gardeners.
Her Godmother was the Countess Helen Ann Tasker of Middleton Hall, Shenfield/Brentwood.
Thanks
Diana
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Diana
found a nice site on the net about her, makes for very interesting reading
http://www.flickr.com/photos/barryslemmings/1349925007/in/pool-england/
Kath x
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Thanks Kath,
I have loads of information on Ellen Willmott as I research her life story but this particular item I didn't have - I love the photographs and I have now joined Flickr to post my own photographs. I have also commented on Barry's wonderful shots of this magnificent place.
I would, however, like to find people who are connected to the Willmotts/Taskers/Fells I mentioned by ancestry or by story. These people had lots of people working for them and I would love to hear from anyone who has a story about any of them.
Many thanks again,
Diana
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Sorry i couldnt be of more help :(
I take it you have looked at the SEAX website (Essex Records Office) to see what they have available on Warley Place.
Kath x
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You were of great help Kath - I discovered those lovely photos of Warley Place and also Flickr!
I aim to get to the ERO one day as I am only in Havering but not sure yet how to get there. I shall look on SEAX to see what's on there but I am in contact with the working party at Warley Place and so have lots of general information about Ellen Willmott. Funnily enough, however, there doesn't seem to be many related people researching the ancestry of the Willmott, Fell and Tasker families - yet they were all wealthy and people of note. Seems strange. Rootschat is pretty good for getting this type of information though so I am keeping my fingers crossed!
Diana :)
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Good luck mate
As for the records office, Chelmsford is a nightmare for parking, have a look on the net for their Park and Ride service.
It cost's £2.00 (return) and you get to leave your car all day in a secure parking facility. When you use the Park & Ride get off at the last stop, when you do this turn right walk about 300 yrds and you will come to a little turning (you should see the DVLA building) walk down the side of this building across their carpark at the back of the car park is a foot bridge (across the river) and the ERO is directly in front of you.
park and ride map
http://www.essexcc.gov.uk/microsites/parkandride/maps.htm
(you will want to get off at stop number 5)
this map shows a better view of where the DVLA is
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=dvla&near=Chelmsford&fb=1&cid=0,0,4694673273332047302&sa=X&oi=local_result&resnum=1&ct=image
Kath x ;D
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That's brilliant Kath. I went before but was totally confused by all the roundabouts. I shall print everything off and try to get there one day soon. The Park and Ride looks like a good idea.
Cheers!
Diana
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NO probs hun.
The ERO has a car park but it's so expensive and it's not secure. The P & R is great value for money and the buses run every 10 mins all day. And the buses they have are very posh lol, nice leather seats etc (better than my car)
It's well worth the £2.00 and you can do Xmas shopping too, Chelmsford has a great shopping center.
Kath x
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I wouldn't have time to do Christmas shopping lol - once in there I am hooked and just carry on searching all day. Only been once but I need to find out about my Dad's side.
Diana ;D
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Lol
well best go on a Monday then Diana as that's their late opening day, i believe they are open until 8pm.
I know what you mean, the time flies when you get in there, i manage to go about twice a year, wish it was more. And i only live 25 mins down the road. I just find it easier to buy the parish records on fiche and look them up at home, when all the kids have gone to bed.
Good luck with your search mate. It sounds very interesting (you going to write a book?)
Kath x
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Thanks for the tip - I will go on a Monday then. Might be a quieter day in any case.
Yes, I write articles and I have already written one article and plan to write a couple more. I have stacks of information on her but through this research I am now invovled in helping people with their ancestry! Just so fascinating. I discovered some gorgeous buildings last week in Brentwood that I never knew existed - and I don't live that far away from there! How the gentry lived in those days. Unbelieveable!
Where do you buy the microfiches from? What cost are they and how do you read them?
Diana
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I live just outside Thurrock, so Brentwood, Chelmsford, Romford all quite near especially living right on top of A13.
I am too fascinated with peoples family history and do help quite a few people when i can. I also love old buildings and ruins.
You can order the microfiche from the records office. It's about £2.20 per fiche, which i do not think is to expensive. You can pay by cheque,in person or by credit/debit card over the phone. they will also post it out to you recorded delivery which costs about £1.50 (i think it's less than that)
All the parishes have an ERO reference
say like Great Waltham, Essex St Mary & St Lawrence Church would be D/P 121
if i wanted the register of baptisms 1703-1782 it would be D/P 121/1/1 it contains 5 fiche so would cost £11.00
When you go on the seax website login as guest and on the right hand side you will see 'quick find registers' click this it's self explanatory from there.
As for being able to read them you need a fiche reader, i bought mine off of ebay it cost me £50 and it's about 40 years old, so not cheap. If your lucky your local library may have a reader there and you can use that for free. Unfortunately mine does not, so i bought one.
Kath x ;D
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oh forgot to add that it can take up to 6 weeks to get them so it's not quick. but i do not know what entails in copying fiche.
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Hello members,
Does anyone have information about the gardeners who worked at Warley Place?
The reason I ask is I am researching my great great Uncle sgt Edward Charles Kent who was killed in March 1918 in the Great War. According to the 1911 census, at this time he was a Improver and a nurseryman in Peterborough.
I have recently discovered with the help of other forum members Warley Place in Essex.
My uncle was born in Lee, Kent where he spent much of his life.
According to records, he enlisted in Warley, Essex (date unknown but probably 1916 onwards) so that makes me believe around this time he was a nurseryman and enlisted in Warley, he could of well been someone who worked on the Warley estate.
Of course this may not be true but I feel it is worth a try.
So does anyone know where I could view records of the workers at Warley Place? The SEAX?
Kind regards,
Mark.
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Hi Diana,
If you buy a fiche reader try for one with at least two lenses, the one I have only has one, the other is missing and I've found on a couple of occasions it would have helped to be able to enlarge further some of the entries, still I can't complain it only cost $20 (about 12 pounds) off Ebay.
Hi Kath.
Regards
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Mark,
In reply to your question (a separate post would have been better), there may be no connection with Warley Place. Warley was the location of a large military barracks. See this google search. Perhaps he travelled there to enlist.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=warley+barracks&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-gb&client=safari
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Hi Mark,
I am in touch with the voluntary working party at Warley Place. A couple of them have researched the history of this place and Ellen Willmott and I know that they have found out about some of the nurserymen there. There were over a hundred gardeners there at one time in Ellen's heyday and I don't know if there is a list of them all, but I could ask them if they know of one.
Regarding your great great uncle enlisting at Warley, one of my ancestors enlisted at Warley and he lived in West Ham which at that time was quite a long way away from Warley. Apparently due to high numbers of deaths in one particular village or town it became usual practice to send locals to enlist at various other regiments all across the country. However, your gt gt uncle may well have worked in Warley at the time before enlisting. I got all details about my ancestor's service life from - well the name escapes me at the moment - but I can find it in my records if you haven't already contacted them about your gt gt uncle.
Have you looked up his certificate in the War Graves? He was with the 18th Battalion then.
Best wishes
Diana
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Dear Diana,
Thankyou for the swift reply. Yes please do ask if they know. Would there have been a memorial at Warley Place to the men that were killed?
Yes he was the 18th Battalion Middlesex Regiment who were a Public works Pioneers battalion who's primary job, I understand, were to constuct communication trenches, roads etc Perhaps this might relate to his duties at Warley Place (if he was there)...
I have been researching for over a year now and so know quite a fair amount about his life and military service. Ancestry, National Archives and the internet have all proven useful.
He may not have been involed at Warley Place at all, but whenever I get a new lead, it's always good to follow it up.
Nonetheless, the history of Warley Place seems very interesting.
Kind regards,
Mark.
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Hello,
I have just found this thread about Warley Place. My gr.grandfather, Frederick Kent (born Cranham) lived all his married life in Great Warley, and in the censuses for 1891, 01 and 11, he is either a garden labourer or a gardener. It seems quite possible that he worked at Warley Place. There was mention of a research group in previous posts - is it possible to make contact with them?
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I’ve just recently came across this old thread and wondered if anyone is still researching Ellen Willmott of Warley Place, in particular her connection with Countess Helen Tasker and other members of the Tasker family. I’m trying to unravel various links to a numbers of Tasker individuals who I suspect are related. The Taskers may have been a prominent Roman Catholic family in or close to York.
Regards,
Chris
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It may not help with your particular searches, but there is a new biography of Miss Willmott. I have it on reserve at the library!
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chris....I've researched Ellen Willmot as her gardens are only 10 minutes away from me by car. its a very special place and I've written an article about it. i have lots of family trees etc including the Countess Tasker who was her aunt. send me your email address ans I'll send you what I can. diana
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Many thanks for these recent replies…..much appreciated.
Diana, I’ll send you a separate message with my email address. I’m interested by your comment that Countess Helen was Ellen’s aunt. I suspected she was a cousin of some degree.
Regards,
Chris
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Wondering if the "connection" began here - Countess Tasker's will refers to "cousin" and Ellen Ann Willmott (the horticulturist) as "godchild"?
FindMyPast (transcripts only)
James Fell, bachelor married Ellen Tasker, spinster, 5 Sep 1825, Aylesbury, by licence, witnesses Joseph and Mary Raw
James Fell buried 19 Mar 1829, Aylesbury, St Mary, aged 47
Thomas Fell, widowed, married Ellen Fell, widowed, 31 Dec 1829, Aylesbury, witnesses Mary Fell and Silv Seymour
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Thanks for the reply.
Yes, I had noticed Ellen Willmott's maternal grandmother was Ellen Tasker and that set me wondering about the relationship between the Willmott family and Countess Helen Tasker.
I've seen somewhere, unsubstantiated, that Ellen Tasker was born 1807 in Aylesbury, daughter of Charles & Mary Tasker.
Other connections include the following......
If you look at Countess Helen's 1861 census return she is shown as head of household, living at Kendal Villa, High Road, Hammersmith with an elderly cousin Hannah Tasker born 1772 in Knapton, Yorkshire. Hannah died two years later at Kendal Villa and probate was granted to a James Lancelot Foster of Ogleforth, Yorkshire, her nephew.
James Lancelot Foster was born 1809 in York, son of Robert Foster, a tea merchant, and his wife Mary Tasker (1772-1810). According to his 1871 census return James Lancelot Foster was the current Sheriif of York and proprietor/editor of the Yorkshire Gazette. He remained as the publisher of the Yorkshire gazette from 1852 until December 1882 and he died 1883 in Ogleforth.
It's also worth looking at this link.....
https://taking-stock.org.uk/building/warley-holy-cross-and-all-saints/
The architect for the new church was Francis William Tasker, cousin of Countess Helen who helped finance the building.
Francis Tasker was born 1848 in Croydon, son of Charles & Sarah Tasker. He has a brief biography here:
http://www.scottisharchitects.org.uk/architect_full.php?id=201860
He died in 1883 and was living at Maryon Hall, Frognal Lane, Hampstead at the time of his death.
According to this article....
https://lesseminentvictorians.com/blog/
Francis William was the grandson of the prolific architect John Tasker (1738-1816). I think this may be in error and he was the great-grandson.
A bit more information about John Tasker here.....
https://www.parksandgardens.org/people/john-tasker
Tasker did a lot of work for Thomas Weld of Lulworth castle. Interestingly John Tasker drew up architectural plans for the main house at Spetchley Park which was built by Robert Berkeley in 1811. Ellen Willmott's younger sister Rosa was later to marry Robert Berkeley's great-grandson, Robert Valentine Berkeley and Ellen herself helped remodelled the park and gardens at Spetchley.
I've looked briefly at John Tasker's will which looks very comprehensive. The main recipients of his estate seem to be his two sons John and Joseph Tasker, the latter presumably the father of Countess Helen Tasker. Joseph Tasker was a wealthy man, leaving around £500,000 on his death in 1861. He was a director of the United Mexican Mining Association which may have been the source of his wealth.
Hopefully John Tasker's will will reveal his connections with Hannah, Mary and Ellen Tasker that I've mentioned above.
Regards,
Chris
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Had also wondered about this "connection" -
1861 Census RG09 3503 64 12
"Countess" Tasker's will widely reported - have you checked it out?
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Marriage -
Frederick Willmott, Jun Qtr 1856, Kensington, 1a 223 - on the same page Ellen Fell
Birth
Ellen Ann Willmott, Sep Qtr 1858, Brentford, 3a 37 - mother's maiden name Fell
Wiki (ok!) has "Ellen Willmott, born 19 Aug 1858 - parents Frederick Willmott, a solicitor and Ellen (nee Fell). Through her mother she was related to the Tasker Family."
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Baptisms
Ellen Fell, bap 4 Oct 1826, abode Temple Square, Aylesbury, father James, a lace merchant, mother Ellen.
I thought I had included this baptism in my first post.
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I’d seen the 1861 census you refer to with Thomas Tasker as head of household, but hadn’t registered some of the detail . Ellen Tasker, who must have been Thomas’s sister, had a single child with her first husband James, but a further 6 children with second husband Thomas. Her eldest son was called Frederick born 1833 who is the grocer’s assistant working with Thomas Tasker in the 1861 census. It’s interesting that Frederick had an American wife and their first born child had been born in New York.
Frederick evidently took over Thomas Tasker’s grocer/corn factor business but by the 1880’s had returned to the US.
Regards,
Chris
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Catholic Baptisms
Was Helen Anna Tasker, bap 12 Nov 1822 at St. Mary Moorfields the only child of Joseph Tasker and wife Anne Sanger?
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I’ve not seen that baptism record. Where did you find it?
Joseph Tasker also had a son called Joseph Louis Tasker born 1824, died of respiratory fever in Persia in 1848.
Have you found a marriage record for Joseph Tasker and Anne Sanger?
Chris
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The Helen Anna Tasker baptism is on FindMyPast
Public Ledger & Daily Advertiser, 10 Jan 1822
MARRIED - Jan 7, Joseph Tasker, Esq. of Baker Street, Portman-square, to Miss Sanger, of Oxford Street
Morning Post, 14 Nov 1822
BIRTHS - On the 12th inst. in York Place, the Lady of Joseph Tasker, Esq. of Fitzwalters, Essex, of a daughter
Morning Post, 5 Apr 1824
DIED - In Gloucester-place, on the 3rd April, Anne, wife of Joseph Tasker, Esq. of Fitzwalters, Essex, in her 25th year.
Have spotted Helen Ann in Hammersmith in '51 with Taskers (spinster cousins) - but not yet '41.
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English Chronicle & Whitehall Evening Post, 6 Dec 1823
BIRTHS - On the 3rd instant, the Lady of Joseph Tasker, Esq., of Fitzwalters, of a son
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The witnesses to James Fell's and Ellen Tasker's marriage, 5 Sep 825, were Joseph and Mary Raw.
1851 Census
Mary Spooner, Head, Wid, age 66, Proprietor of land, born Darlington
Ellen Fell (transcribed as Sell), niece, 24, Proprietor of land, born Aylesbury
Thomas Raw, visitor, unm, 76, Proprietor of land, b. Durham
In 1851 Frederick Fell is with his Uncle Thomas Tasker at Bridge Gate, Rotherham
In 1851 Rebecca, Adelaide and Charles T. are still with father, Thomas, at Castle Street, Aylesbury. Thomas is a widower.
Ellen Fell (nee Tasker) was buried 1 Sep 1845, age 38 (YoB 1807), Aylesbury. The YoB 1807 is confirmed by the 1841 Census with Ellen's age rounded down to 30 (born 1807-1811) Noted also Ellen NOT born in Bucks ie Aylesbury.
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Thanks for this information.
I’d previously seen the 1851 census where Ellen Fell was visiting Mary Spooner. Mary Spooner’s maiden name was Mary Raw. She married Thomas Spooner in 1831 in Aylesbury. Thomas Spooner died in 1839. Mary died in 1853, a couple of years after the census was taken.
Mary Raw had 3 brothers as far as I can determine. The eldest Thomas Raw was born In 1775 in Darlington and died in June 1861 in Islington. In the 1861 census he’s shown as a retired linen draper.
Thomas Raw’s probate record is interesting. Probate was granted to Thomas Tasker, his nephew. Thomas Tasker was the grocer in Rotherham who had Frederick Fell as his grocer’s assistant in the 1861 census.
Regards,
Chris
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Thanks for the update.
I had been casting around for combinations of Spooner/Raw, Spooner/Tasker and Tasker/Raw and had identified the 1831 marriage - reported in a number of newspapers eg.
Suffolk Chronicle, 29 Oct 1831
"On Saturday last, at Aylesbury, Thomas Spooner, Esq., of Bedford Place, Russell-square, London, and of Washbrook, to Miss Mary Raw, of the former place."
The appearance of these marriage notices triggered the following -
Worcester Herald, 5 Nov 1831
"MOST UNPROMISING NAMES - The London Papers announce the marriage at Aylesbury, of Thomas Spooney, Esq., to Miss Mary Raw. The Lady has not much improved her appellation by the change."
Note the distortion of Thomas' surname.
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The Mary Spooner Will is quite enlightening. She leaves a sum of £500 to her great-niece Ellen Fell. She also leaves a sum of £4000 to her nephew Thomas Tasker, son of Richard & Ellen Tasker. We’ve previously picked up Thomas Tasker, the grocer, in the census returns from Rotherham.
Richard Tasker married Ellen Raw on 19th May 1800 in Whitby. Ellen is therefore Mary Spooner’s sister. Mary and Ellen had a brother William, watch and clockmaker, who lived in Whitby and this may account for Richard & Ellen’s marriage taking place there. I’ve found a baptism record for a Thomas Tasker, son of Richard & Ellen Tasker, 4th December 1810 in Masbrough, Yorkshire (a district of Rotherham which doesn’t seem to exist as such any more).
I suspect this Richard Tasker may have been the son of Richard Tasker, brother of John Tasker (1738-1816), the architect. John Tasker was the grandfather of Countess Helen Tasker….godmother of Ellen Willmott.
Regards,
Chris
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There's a wealth of info. out there but why is so difficult to find the birth/baptism of Joseph Tasker (circa 1797) and Ellen Tasker (circa 1807).
Joseph died 8th April 1861 and the census was taken 7th April. Newspaper reports say he died at his London residence - not Middleton Hall. There is a '61 census entry for a Joseph Tasker, age 64, widower, gentleman, born Marylebone. Is this your Joseph? Struggling to find him in '51.
Ellen Tasker (circa 1807) states not born in County ie Buckinghamshire in '41 but dies pre '51 Census.
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Yes, it’s frustrating. Is the difficulty due to the baptisms being in the Catholic church?
Thomas Tasker’s baptism transcript was labelled Independent, Masbrough. I’m assuming that means he would have been baptised at the St Bede’s Catholic Church, Masbrough Street in Rotherham. I’m guessing his sister Ellen may have been baptised at the same church but I can’t understand why one record is easily found but the other isn’t.
The death of Ellen Fell nee Tasker was registered in Aylesbury in 1845.
I haven’t been able to find Joseph Tasker’s census records. I have an Ancestry subscription and haven’t yet tried to search FindMyPast. His probate index indicates he died at his London property at 87 Marylebone Street. He died on 8th April 1861, the day after the census was taken.
I read John Tasker’s Will in greater detail and it mentions his two brother, Richard and James who had predeceased him. It gives his brother’s childrens names. The Richard Tasker I mentioned in my previous post (i.e. the Richard who married Ellen Raw) was actually the son of John Tasker’s brother James.
Regards,
Chris
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The '61 Census record I mentioned above, taken 7th April, has Joseph at 87 Marleybone Street with 2 servants. I had wondered about the PoB - was it a guess by the servants with Joseph unable to provide details. He died on the 8th.
Correction - I misread PoB. Ignore reference to Marylebone.
Apologies
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Joseph’s father, John Tasker the architect, lived in a property on Baker Street, Portman Square in Marylebone. So that may have been the birth place of Joseph.
Chris
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Pl see my correction to post 39
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John Tasker was living at Mortimer Street, Cavendish Square at the time of his marriage in 1789.
He was the architect who designed and built a number of properties in the Portman Square area from 1792. I’m wondering if he acquired one of those new properties to live in himself as his central London base.
At some point he also acquired the Fitzwalters estate in Shenfield. I believe Fitzwalters was passed on to his son Joseph who subsequently bought Middleton Hall as his country residence and sold Fitzwalters.
Chris
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A couple of the newspaper notices previously posted refer to "Joseph Tasker, Fitzwalters, Essex"
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An engraving of Fitzwalters dated 1818 is shown on this weblink….
https://www.thedicamillo.com/house/fitzwalters/
The two characters in the foreground may well have been Joseph Tasker and his wife-to-be Anne.
Chris