RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cumberland => Topic started by: beeby on Saturday 27 October 07 15:01 BST (UK)
-
Isabella Pape (nee Whitfield) was born 1846 in Workington (Cockermouth) to John Whitfield and his wife Mary (nee Beeby) who lived in the Seaton Iron Works area.
She married a Roger Pape on 25 February 1969 at St John's Church, Workington, he was a 26 year old Seaman living Bridge Street, Workington, father a Richard Pape a Labourer. Isabella was living King Street Workington a 23 year old Spinster father John Whitfield, Gardner.
Roger died 11 March 1871 at Bridge Street, Workington age 29, the informant was a Mary Graham of Bridge Street, Workington.
The 1871 census shows his widow Isabella Pape living with her sister Mary Ann McCoid (nee Whitfield) and her family in Workington, Isabella is shown as a widow.
After the 1871 census I have lost all track of her, I have followed up a few marriages to no avail and have never found a death for her.
Can anyone help please ?
Regards Mary
-
Hi Mary,
there is a death of an Isabella pape registered in Wigton 1918 but at 54 whereas your Isabella should have been 64 - she lied or a typo?
There is also a marriage for an Isabella Pape in Q2 1880 to either a Porteous or a Thompson.
There is no death for an Isabella Porteous on Freebmd but she may have died after the records end (we are up to 1920's and she would only have been in her70's).
There is a death of an Isabella Thompson in 1914 but she was recorded as aged 64.
Either of these marriage certs would give a previous name and an age.
not definitive but maybe a start.
bob
-
there is a death of an Isabella pape registered in Wigton 1918 but at 54 whereas your Isabella should have been 64 - she lied or a typo?
There is also a marriage for an Isabella Pape in Q2 1880 to either a Porteous or a Thompson.
The one who married Wilf THOMPSON was 25 in 1881, born Holme Cultram.
The one who died in 1918 was probably wife of George PAPE, she was born c1865 Birkby(?).
-
Message for Geoff E
Thanks Geoff E, I have l read lookeed ino the marriage of an Isabella Pape Wigton 1880 and found she married a Wilfred Thompson in 1880. Looking at the 1891 she was born Holme Cultram and going back to the 1871 there was an Isabella Pape born Holme Cultram who seems to fit the bill, she was a daughter. So not my Isabella who on the 1871 was a widow. Thanks for your help and interest.
Regards Pauline Thomas
-
Geoff,
I will go with both of those. But that means we haven't helped! Doh!
bob
-
Thanks Bon and Geoff2
I think I may have answered the query, in that an Isabella Pape married a Robert Porteous and these are the further records you have found and I thank you.
I have found the Isabella Pape married to the Robert Porteous and altho'the names of the children are family names can discount her as she was born Holme Coultran Cumberland and going back to the 1871 there is indeed an Isabella Pape there born Holme Coultram.
So for me back to the drawing board !
Regards Pauline Thomas and thanks for your interest.
-
Thanks Bon and Geoff2
I think I may have answered the query, in that an Isabella Pape married a Robert Porteous and these are the further records you have found and I thank you.
Sorry, I think it was Wilfred THOMPSON that Isabella PAPE married in 1880 ... no children in 1881 and living near Wigton.
It seems to me that Robert PORTEOUS married Elizabeth JEFFERSON and they were in Silloth in 1881 (no children).
-
I think at this point, a small clarification is needed -
The 1851 census has Isabella WHITFIELD (dau of John And Mary) aged 4 born and living in Seaton/Camerton - across the River Derwent from Workington. At that time, John was a Tin Plate worker, but by 1861 was an AgLab. They were still living in Seaton in 1861.
I can't find the family in 1841, but from the birthplaces of Isabella's siblings, they should have been in Haltwhistle or Seaton, moving around that time (1841).
Having said all this, I can't see a suitable Isabella born c1847 Seaton/Camerton in the 1881 census with a marriage that is any use. :(
-
Replies to Messages No 6 and 7
I agree my mistake, it was Wilfred Thompson an Isabella Pape (not mine !) married in Wigton in 1880, his wife Isabella was from Holme Cultram.
Indeed my Isabella (1846) was the daughter of John Whitfield and Mary Whitfield (nee Beeby) one of 11 children born to the couple. Father John was born Haltwhistle and his wife Mary Cumwhitton.
They are on the 1841 census at Seaton Iron Works.
My Isabella seems to have disappeared after 1871 but I won't give up !
Thanks for everyone's interest.
Regards, Pauline
-
Hi, I've come across a tree online that has Isabella marrying Sowen Anderssen in 1873 (I've attached a copy). This tree also has my great-great grandmother Elizabeth (Betsy) Whitfield on it who was Isabella's sister :) There are a few death records on familysearch.org for Isabella Andersons who'd have been born in and around 1846 in the right area. Good luck!
-
Hello Wanda
Nice to hear from you and yes the tree is my Whitfield tree. Betsy (Elizabeth) Whitfield has been lost to me after the 1871 census when she was a Sweeney by marriage. Would love to know your connection, obviously she survived after the 1871 census if she was your great Grandmother. Would love to know the details, she has been my brickwall for years and years.
Isabella was her sister who is found on the 1871 census a young widow (married briefly to a Roger Pape) living with her sister Betsy. I have her marriage to what would appear to be a Danish or Swedish seaman and after that nothing.
Can I help with anything ?
Can't wait to hear what you have to tell me ! Kind regards, Pauline
-
Hi Pauline,
on the tree, the Joseph Sweeney at the bottom of Betsy's branch was my grandfather (born 1900). I don't know a lot about the Whitfields other than what I found in the wonderful piece online about brother William, and vague family rumours. According to my sister, there was always talk that Mary Ann Whitfield (their mum) had money and I had a vague recollection of John (I was probably only about 10 when it was being talked of). I'll see if my sister can find out anything else as she still has vague contact with some of our older Sweeney family members (I was one of the youngest of all of our cousins so I missed out on most of the gossip :( ).
I'll let you know if I find out any more,
Gail
-
Thank you Gail for replying so quickly ! Bit confused, Mary Ann (you say their Mother) Betsy and her siblings had parents John and Mary (nee Beeby) not a Mary Ann, a Mary Ann was the sister of Betsy.
I'd be interested to know if either you or your sister have found Betsy after the 1871 census ?
As regards money, James would have been the only one, certainly not John or Mary.
Look forward to hearing from you soon.
Where do you live ? I live in England.
Pauline
-
Hi Pauline,
I found their mum as Mary (Beeby) but my sister said that she was know in the family as Mary Ann Whitfield. William married a Mary Ann as well :) I know that John worked in the Seaton Iron Works (where he was killed) so I doubt he was wealthy. Mary Beeby's brother Jacob was rich and he left his money to James.
I've attached a brilliant piece I found on the internet about William Whitfield with references to other family members.
I'm originally from North West London (Harrow) but now in Orkney. My dad was born in Gateshead but his family moved south not long after he was born. Whereabouts in England are you?
Gail
-
Hello Gail
Thanks for the attachment which I had not seen although I know the author. together we have been working on the Whitfields for over 20 years so we know as much as each other.
Agree that Jacob was wealthy and most of his wealth was left to James W, I think this is where the money aspect comes into it. Whether there was any distribution of it I don!t know.
I'd love to know how your sister knows that MB was known as Mary Ann, her daughter Was Mary Ann.
I find typing into this little square rather frustrating, do you think it would be safe to swap email addresses ?
I am descended from Joseph Whitfield who again disappears after the 1871 census just like Betsy although years later there is evidence of him in Australia although no entry records, marriage, death etc.
Look forward to hearing what your sister has to say, where does she live ?
I live in Warwickshire, the Orkneys sounds a wonderful place to live.
Regards Pauline