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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Devon => England => Devon Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Stewart R on Saturday 27 October 07 12:00 BST (UK)
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Does anybody have access to the pre 1837 parish registers for Stoke Damerel & East Stonehouse? If so I am
keen desperate to track down any information for the surname "Wolfendale" particularly the given names of James (possibly a Royal Marine) and his wife Kezia (born in Australia in c1796) and their children, John Thomas Perry born c1825 and William born c1821.
I would be very grateful to anyone who has access to the above information if they could have a look for me.
Regards
Stewart
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Hi Stewart R,
Couldn't find a record for the marriage, but found the following in the East Stonehouse Parish Record (on CD):
Baptism
William Perry Wolfendale 27/12/1818
James Perry Wolfendale 06/08/1820
John Perry Wolfendale 14/03/1822
John Thomas Perry Wolfendale 20/06/1824
Thomas Perry Wolfendale 15/01/1826
All listed with Father as James Wolfendale "Serjeant" in the Royal Marines. Mother transcribed as Kezia, Zekia, Zakiah & Tezia.
I wouldn't expect a "bookie" to give you very long odds that the mothers Maiden name was Perry :D
Hope this helps,
Ian
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Ian
Thankyou very much that's brilliant :D and yes it does seem that Perry would be kesia's maiden name. Armed with that info I think a visit the Australian convicts web site to see if she had a dubious parent or two :-[. An interesting selection of variations to her name as well
Talking of names I'm rather drawn towards the three boys all having almost the same name and I'm wondering if one or more had died as babies. As I am a descendant of one of those it's all rather puzzling ???
Not wishing to push your generosity to far as you've already helped a great deal but do you have any access to death records? (or any other Rootschatters reading this)
Regards
Stewart
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i could nay see any burials on familyhistoryonline, sorry, and searching just under the name of Wolfendale and Devon on the same site just gives me this 1881 census:~
RG11 2195 138 51 - 8 Wyndham St W Plymouth St Andrew Devon England
Mary A, Mary A & Minnie
(shout if you need the full details)
no Wolfendale marriages on Phillimores either (devon only searched )
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Thanks Toni for your interest however I do have a copy of the census to which you refer. Minnie is my Great Grandmother and she is the Daughter of either John Perry Wolfendale, John Thomas Perry Wolfendale or Thomas Perry Wolfendale. ??? :-\
Thanks again :)
Regards
Stewart
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Hi Stewart,
The same thought occurred to me whilst I was looking at that information.
No burials listed for "Wolfendale" in the East Stonehouse parish 1813-1840.
Concentrated on the East Stonehouse parish because of Stonehouse Barracks (Durnford Street).
If I get time, I'll look in Stoke Damerel / Plymouth (St Andrews) & Plymouth (Charles the Martyr).
Best Regards,
Ian
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Ian
Thankyou for your interest and I appreciate your offer :)
Your thoughts regarding Kezia's maiden name has also had a result as I looked on the Australian BMD website and found a Kezzia Perry being born in 1791. A slight discrepancy with the date but I feel it's to coincidental to ignore and will delve deeper. I suppose I'm lucky to be searching for such uncommon names.
Thanks again
Regards
Stewart
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Hi Stewart,
I've looked at Plymouth (Charles & St Andrew), St Budeaux, Stoke Damerel & Pennycross records without success.
I have found a James Wolfendale buried in East Stonehouse on 13/09/1835 aged 48, notes say he was from Devonport (So much for my previous statement :-[).
I went to a Devon Family History Society day in June which painted a truly horrific picture of Plymouth around this time period, especially the East Stonehouse and Barbican areas.
It was one of the most crowded and therefore unhealthy places in Great Britain.
Best Regards,
Ian
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Hi everyone
Hope you don't mind me butting in :-\
I thought I would try and find Minnie Wolfendale's father.
In 1881 Minnie is with her mother Mary A Wolfendale (b c 1825) in Stonehouse.I have traced them back...
In 1841... Kezia Wolfendale (50) is in Stonehouse with William, 25 and John 14.
In 1851:
Fore street, stonehouse
Mary A Wolfendale is head, mar 25 (mother of Minnie in 1881 census)
Mary dau 2
Elizabeth dau 10... this is strange as she should have been emunerated first because of age ... also Mary A, mum, would have been 15 when she was born .... :-\)
West Street, Stonehouse
Kezia Wolfendale wid 52 b NSW, Sydney
William son 30 unm
In 1861:
Thomas Wolfendale is a patient, 32 UNM, Gunners mate RN in the Royal Naval Hospital, Stonehouse
Also in 1861
Mary A Wolfindell (sic), head MAR seamans wife
Mary A dau 12
1871
east Stonehouse, 45 Fore Street
Mary A Woffendale (sic) head WID, 46 Nurse
Mary A dau unm 22 tailoress
william Rial/Riel boarder in charge3
Edgar Rial/Riel "
so at this stage we have Minnie's mother already married in the 1851 and 1861 censuses.
Thomas Wolfendale is still unmarried in 1861 ...so he's not the dad.
William Wolfendale , unmarried,is with his mother, Kezia in 1851 ... not the dad
There is this marriage:
Dec q 1848, Stoke Damerel
John Thomas Perry Wolfendale
on same page ....
Mary Ann Bean
Mary Ann Collings
vol 9 pg 553
Minnie was b c 1872 ... Mary A Wolfendale (55) in 1881 says that Minnie (9) is her daughter .... but if she was a widow by 1871 .... then who is the dad ...I tend to think that Minnie is the daughter of mary A b c 1849/50 ...Hope I am making sense here :-\
I will look for more
deb :)
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Hi again
There is an online document on National archives for Thomas Wolfendale of Stonehouse.
Document:
ADM 139/13/1243
Admiralty RN continous Service Engagement books
Thomas Wolfendale
DOB 29 dec 1825
Year volunteered 1853
Comments: served in RN since 1839
deb
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Deb
Thankyou very much for your interest in my query. I already have many of the details you have shown but there are a few snippets of information that are of additional interest to me. I have often puzzled over the marital status of Thomas (the patient) in the 1861 census but have reasons to believe that the return could be inaccurate here, as was the case with many census returns, especially around this period. I have a copy of Minnie’s marriage certificates to my Great Grandfather, Isaac dated 1893 and 1899 (yes the are two, but that’s another story) and on both, her father is shown as Thomas Wolfendale, Sailor RN.
Your interest and information is very much appreciated, Thankyou
Regards
Stewart
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Hi Stewart
Glad to be of help ... albeit not a lot :-\
If you ordered the online admiralty document of Thomas Wolfendale (who is hopefully Minnie's dad) it may give you more details ...ie next of kin etc ....it may also give his status as to marriage etc ....
I also wonder about Minnie's birth Date, 1872 , and her mother already being a widow in 1871 .
deb
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Ian
Thankyou again for the additional information you have provided. I’m travelling down to the west country at Christmas and may take a trip to Plymouth to seen If I can find the grave of James.
I would also like to thankyou for your thoughts on the maiden name of Kezia being that of Perry because additional research has revealed that her Mother and Father landed in Australia with the First Fleet back in 1788 he was a Royal Marine and had sailed with his wife (or intended) on the convict Ship “Prince of Wales” guarding 49 female and 1 male convict :o. There is so much information about this event as you can imagine and I feel I’ve only just scratched the surface but I feel it is you I have to thank for pointing me in this direction.
Regards
Stewart
P.s I love this site :D
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I also wonder about Minnie's birth Date, 1872 , and her mother already being a widow in 1871 .
deb
Hmm!! Just noticed that on your previous message :o
A bit of a cat amongst the pigeons here I think ??? ??? :-\
Regards
Stewart
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Hi again
yep ... a little bit of a mystery ...
My first though when I saw the 1881 census was that Minnie (9) was Mary A jnr's (30) child and not Mary Ann snr(55). :-X
Have you followed them through to 1901? What happened to Mary A snr's other daughter , Elizabeth?
deb
added>>>>. are the Boarders that are with them in1871 ...from your Reid family perhaps ?
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HI Stewart,
I'm really pleased that you appear to have made a significant amount of progress with the "Wolfendales".
One word of warning though, as you probably know Plymouth was devastated in the Blitz and very little of "old" Plymouth remains.
Stonehouse is the site of a Royal Marines Barracks and is next to the civilian dock for Plymouth, Millbay or Great Western Dock so was a prime target for the Germans.
I have looked on the Devon Family History Society website to see if they have any records of burials for Wolfendales.
1 listed "Most Parishes 1813-1837" is probably James (1835). There is another listed for "Ford Park Cemetery 1848-1867".
If you are still planning to come down, I would get in touch with them to find out who is buried there, they will be able to give you an exact location in the cemetery.
You can "Google" Ford Park Cemetery, they have their own website.
Hope you can keep the momentum going!
Regards,
Ian
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Hi again
There is this marriage:
Dec q 1848, Stoke Damerel
John Thomas Perry Wolfendale
on same page ....
Mary Ann Bean
Mary Ann Collings
vol 9 pg 553
I spotted this on IGI ...it is a submitted record
Christening
Mary Ann Wolfendale
4 Dec 1848
East Stonehouse
Parents;
John Thomas Perry Wolfendale
Mary Ann Collings
hope this helps a little
deb :)
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My first though when I saw the 1881 census was that Minnie (9) was Mary A jnr's (30) child and not Mary Ann snr(55).
I must admit this rather dubious scenario did cross my mind and I'd often wondered why there was such a long childless gap between the two sisters. I think an application for a birth certificate is on the cards here. :-\
With regard to 1901, I've not seen the census return with Mary & Mary but to be honest I've rather neglected them. I do Know that Mary jnr died in 1905 and My great grandmother Minnie had by then married my Great Grandfather and were living in Edinburgh at that time. She sadly died very young in 1903. As for the other sister Elizabeth, I lost track of her after the 1851 census and have thus far not attempted to trace her.
As for the boarders you mentioned in 1871 I don't recognize them as family but are we looking at potential fathers here :-X Curiously in the grave of Minnie, her mother and sister also lies a man by the name of Edgar clinch "Ridd", a man who's identity is a mystery
I thought this family tree stuff was meant to be a hobby, I think I should have taken up fishing instead ;D ;D
Your continued interest is appreciated
Regards
Stewart
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Hi Stewart
I think that if we try and follow the two sisters ...Elizabeth and Mary A we might find something . What bothers me is that in 1851 Mary A , 2years old , is transcribed before Elizabeth who is 10 ... usually the eldest is transcribed first ...so is Elizabeth 10 or 10 months? .... if she is in fact 10, who does she belong to ... :-\ Did Mary A snr marry abt 1840 to one of the Wolfendale brothers or is Elizabeth a child from a previous marriage .
Mary A snr was 25 in 1851 ..... :-\ :-X so she would have been 15 when Elizabeth was born...I tend to think that Elizabeth was 10 months in 1851...but then again who knows ::) :-X :-\
In 1851:
Fore street, stonehouse
Mary A Wolfendale is head, mar 25 (mother of Minnie in 1881 census)
Mary dau 2
Elizabeth dau 10... this is strange as she should have been emunerated first because of age ... also Mary A, mum, would have been 15 when she was born .... :-\)
I hope I am making sense ... and not confusing the issue
deb
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i can't see a birth for Elizabeth Wolfendale 1849-1850 all qtrs , fullBMD ???
so perhaps she was 10 years :-\
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i couldnt check Qtr 1, 3 or 4 1841 for some reason but i checked all other qtrs 1839-1840 & qtr 2 1841 i couldnt see Elizabeth on those either. :-\
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Just an update to those that gave me so much help regarding this particular thread and particularly who Minnie's father was. Having sent of for her birth certificate it appears that she was born out of wedlock to a man called Ernest Martin, a spirit merchants clerk. As for Minnie's mother I've posted another thread to try and sort that one out but it seems she may have been the daughter of her sister???
??? ???
Regards
Stewart