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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: oldtimer on Tuesday 23 October 07 19:13 BST (UK)
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can you tell me why my great uncle appears to be wearing a lanyard (Don't tell me off if that's the wrong term!!) on his uniform?
Does it signify anything?
Thanks for looking, Judy ;)
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He probably had a tool of some description, eg, a clasp knife on the end of it.
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Hi Atom!
Thanks very much!!
Judy ;)
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In my old battalion...a white lanyard signified a regt signaller...The rest of us wore black.
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Yes, but in those far off days, economy ruled and lanyards were pretty basic, they came in a choice of ... white cotton .. a bit like the original Ford motor car.
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Well the Northamptons, and the Anglians (2nd Bn) there after have worn black since time immemorial... ;) (well at least since Gen Wolfe died in the arms of a Northamptonshire Officer...)
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Hi Atom and Scrimnet
Hope you enjoyed your trip down Memory Lane! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Thanks for your interest in this post.
Best wishes, Judy ;)
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A million years ago, my St John's Ambulance Brigade unform had the same thing. Nothing was attached to it.
I would guess it was a hangover from the old days, and there was nothing attached to it.
meles
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I joined the Royal Warwickshire Regiment as a regular soldier. We were issued with lanyards to distinguish us from National Service men.
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Judy,
The photo is pre-1920. In the main Cavalry, Artillery, and ASC wore lanyards. At this period, in the infantry, generally the transport section wore lanyards as they worked with horses and were issued a clasp knife and lanyard. The one worn walking out, it almost became an art form of knotting it and blanco-ing it.
Well the Northamptons, and the Anglians (2nd Bn) there after have worn black since time immemorial... (well at least since Gen Wolfe died in the arms of a Northamptonshire Officer...)
:)I smell pork pies... Lanyards and stable belts, as a standard issue for all bayonets of a battalion, is a dress accoutrement that appeared well after the first world war, and a lang time efter General Wolfe hung his clogs up - and albeit not readily admitted to, was an idea borrowed from troops associated with equitation.
Hope this has been of use.
Aye
Tom McC
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Judy,
Well the Northamptons, and the Anglians (2nd Bn) there after have worn black since time immemorial... (well at least since Gen Wolfe died in the arms of a Northamptonshire Officer...)
:)I smell pork pies... Lanyards and stable belts, as a standard issue for all bayonets of a battalion, is a dress accoutrement that appeared well after the first world war, and a lang time efter General Wolfe hung his clogs up - and albeit not readily admitted to, was an idea borrowed from troops associated with equitation.
Hope this has been of use.
Aye
Tom McC
:o :o :o :o :P :P :P :P
Porky pies???
My bottom! ::)
The key bits are "....wore black since Gen Wolfe died in the arms of a Northamptonshire officer...."
The hats, badge backings, AOS stripe, and lanyards were worn by the Regt for many many years...All in memory of Wolfe....
8)
;)
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The Northamptons did not wear black lanyards as a dress requirement until 1937 ;).
Aye
Tom McC
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Thanks Tom!
It definitely was taken during the Great War. My great uncle was a miner in Civvy Street. I know he was awarded the General Service and Victory medals and had
wound stripe. he was in the 3rd North Staffs, and was discharged in 1919.
The main reason I asked the question was because I had seen lots of WW1 photos, but couldn't remember seeing anyone wearing a lanyard before.
Meles - I can remember wearing one in the Girl Guides, also a million years ago!!
Enjoyed your debate about the topic - but please don't let World War 3 break out!!! ;)
Best wishes, Judy
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Girl Guides & Northamptoms/2nd Bn Royal Anglians in the same post, So which is the senior Battalion, I will go for the 1st Battalion Girl Guides, what do you say Mr Scrimnet ;D
With love from MS
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During my NS in the Royal Signals, we wore a blue lanyard, nothing attached thereto!!!
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Ditto 1951-1953 ::)
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Well folks,
I thought it was probably a silly question!!! ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Thanks for all your interest!
Judy ;)
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During my NS in the Royal Signals, we wore a blue lanyard, nothing attached thereto!!!
Still do with number two dress. I was also issued with a white stringy type one which we wore with combat kit but mainly to keep your knife on.
Stable belts! I've never really thought about them but it obviously goes back to the horsey days? Checking your vehicle was (is?) always called "stables" harping back to the days when you sorted out your horse I assume? I remember we were all banned from wearing them on exercise because it showed those nasty Russians which Corps we were from. Good point but I think they already knew.
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Girl Guides & Northamptoms/2nd Bn Royal Anglians in the same post, So which is the senior Battalion, I will go for the 1st Battalion Girl Guides, what do you say Mr Scrimnet ;D
With love from MS
Well Roy...Bias towards you old mob???
:P :P :P
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As for the clasp knife thingy...I have never seen a clasp knife ...(in modern times) ...on a lanyard. I used to wear my dads old one on a length of para cord on exercise (whilst in combats), and as it has been noted these days they are just about only seen with No2s / SD.
Of course (re the Northamptons bit)...I was mainly referring to ossifers... and for me "time immemorial" means anything over 40years...I'm not as old as monsstar, ergo my time frames and references are not as long as his... :P :P :P :P
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Hi All,
Not wanting to be flippant :) but the picture that Judy posted is a First World War one. There was no such Corps as the Royal Signals at this period. This task was carried out by a the Signals Branch of the Royal Engineers. During the First World War, mounted troops (of any Corps or Regiment) would be issued with a clasp knife and lanyard. If the knife was dropped whilst on horseback, it was a pain in the backside to retrieve, and also increased the chances of it being lost. This problem was remedied by having the knife tied to the person, and placed in the top left pocket.
Mounted troops generally had an ornate, blanco’d one for walking out etc.
Lanyards became a decorative item of dress - for some Corps and the Infantry – after the First World War, especially with the advent of Battledress, when it became common for infantry regiments to wear one (Parachute Regiment: Maroon, Blue, Green, etc.). As they were purely decorative, you won’t find very much at the end of it.
Have a look at the picture attached it shows various ranks of the Royal Engineers, during the First World War. Note the absence of a Royal Engineer's black lanyard – as at this time, it did not exist. However, those Royal Engineers on mounted duties have a lanyard.
The Horseshoe badge that some are wearing is Farrier and Shoeing Smith.
Hope this helps
Tom McC
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Hi Tom
Thanks for your reply. I know it is definitely a WW1 photo. As I mentioned before Tom was in the North Staffords, and discharged in 1919.
Sorry to be a bit thick, but do you mean that he probably would have been a horseman?
Best wishes, Judy
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PS - that was a super photo that you posted. I wonder how many of them survived ??
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Judy,
You are not thick, far from it, your quest for family knowledge is an admirable quality! I reckon that since your relative was in the infantry, it was very probable that he was in the Transport Section of the battalion. During the First World War, horses were a considerable source of transport and power, from moving of battalion wagons, to the movement of guns.
Hope this is of use
Tom McC
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hi Tom!!
Many thanks for your answer. I understand now what you mean!
Knowing things like that helps to get an idea of how my uncle spent his war years.
He emigrated to the US shortly after the war, and died there in 1937. The local branch of the British Legion gave him a military funeral.
Thanks again. Best wishes, Judy
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Do they have British legions in the US? Genuine question.
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Hi Certacito
They seemed to in the 1930s at least -
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PS - That's Rochester, New York, not Kent!!
Judy ;)
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Well I never. You live and learn. Thanks.
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Cap badge on Sergeant looks like North Staffords, also note single wound stripe on Sgts rt sleeve. as to the lanyard, purely for decoration I think. Lance Corporals wore them.
Regards
Andrew
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Thank you Andrew for your interest and comments - much appreciated! ;)
Welcome also to Rootschat! Hope you have fun! Sounds like you know a lot about military history, so you will be very popular ;D ;D
Best wishes, Judy ;)
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as to the lanyard, purely for decoration I think. Lance Corporals wore them.
Regards
Andrew
Yes, welcome to Rootschat Andrew, regards reference to the lanyard, did you read all the earlier posts! They did in fact serve a purpose in WW1, whereby they were a practical item, worn for a purpose, it was only in later years that they became 'decoration' as you put it. :)
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Thanks for the welcome. My main interest is in military history specifically WW1 and 2. I collect WW1 Memorial Scrolls and this leads to lots of research potential. My own family (Nichol) had a number of military and naval connections, so again I have become quite used to searching through medal index cards/war diaries/soldiers papers/ships logs/London Gazette etc at the National Archives.
I would recommend a visit to the NA to anyone living relatively close. Lots of info in there just a case of finding it!
Regards
Andrew
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Great stuff Andrew
With your interests you will no doubt enjoy this forum as people are most generous with their help.
Thought we might have a family connection there with your Nichol name, but as far as I know, my Nicol does not have the 'h' in it ...
I believe the National Archives is in a bit of an upheaval at the moment. Perhaps you can give us an idea when it will be back to normal, not that I visit very often as it is too far away for me, but others might like to know. :D
Anne
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http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
The NA web site has all the opening times etc. It will be closed from 21-27 Jan for more reorganization. It looks like there will be no advance document ordering until the end of March. Basically just when you have worked out where everything is, they go and move it!
Regards
Andrew
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If you look at the Family Records Centre's and the National Archives' web-sites you will see the latest position regarding the closing of the former around mid-March 2008 and the refurbishment and redecorating, with a short closure of the latter during this coming January.
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I currently work in MOD Army kit supply.
The lanyard worn in the initial photograph is still worn by a number of regiments in the current (streamlined) british army with No 2 dress. It is white in colour & plaited for about 3/4 of the length. The lanyard was originally worn to carry items of kit, but is now purely decorative (apart from one or two regiments that wear whistles & the like on them; e.g. Rifles Band)
Off the top of my head the ones that wear the white lanyard are, Kings Royal Hussars, Scots Dragoon Guards, Queens Royal Lancers, Queens Dragoon Guards & Royal Dragoon Guards.
Royal Signals & Royal Engineers both wear a Navy Blue Lanyard but they are slightly different shades.
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I currently work in MOD Army kit supply.
Ooohh don't mention that!!
I'll be sending some indents to you when I get back in....
Is it true that there is still an amount of WW1 SD hidden away that can be ordered for certain duties??