RootsChat.Com
Census Lookups General Lookups => Census Lookup and Resource Requests => Census and Resource Discussion => Completed Census Requests => Topic started by: treeworm on Sunday 21 October 07 00:20 BST (UK)
-
Hi folks..
If a woman was married and then divorced or widowed, and then she married again...Which name would she use as her maiden name? The original one or the surname from her previous marriage?
Sorry if this is a silly question....but I'm hoping it might clear up something for me.
Thanks Gillian.
-
hi gillian
im presuming she should use her first marriage name
but i dont know for definate
berni
-
Most entries I have seen have used her married name when she remarried but some local authority sites will show three names in the marriage entry such as John Brown, Mary Smith, Mary Green.
Hope this helps.
-
Hi Gillian,
She can only have one maiden name i.e. the name under which she was born/registered at birth.
As others have indicated, she might be named on indexes, at her second marriage, under her maiden surname or under her (first) married surname or under both.
Depending on the information she provided at the time of her (second) marriage, the certificate might say that she was formerly X (her first married surname) nee Y (her maiden surname).
But, of course, information in indexes and on certificates is not always accurate :( Not everyone told the truth, or remembered the truth, or even knew the truth ::)
Good luck,
JAP
-
If a woman was divorced it should say in column 2, as an example;
Ann Meredith, formerly Brown (spinster) where Meredith is her married name and Brown her maiden name, and in column 4 Condition it should say The divorced Wife of John Meredith
If she was a widow it should say in column 2 Ann Brown and in column 4 Widow
At least it does on the certificates I have :)
Stan
-
Yes Stan, Indeed.
But, again to stress the point, information on certificates is only as good as 'facts' provided by the informant ...
Gillian, when did the marriage occur. Divorce was very expensive and virtually unknown until a certain time period.
If you provide full info, RootsChatters might be able to help ...
JAP
-
Hi folks, thank to all for their interest.
Here's what I know;
Priscilla Thomas is the maiden name of my gran on her birth certificate.
Her husband was James Henry Skipsey b. 1854 Leeds.
They had 7 children; William 1877, James 1882, Albert 1884, Maud 1891, Tom 1893, Florry 1879 and Henrietta 1875.
I believe they were married in 1874, Leeds, 2nd Qtr, 9b 578.
The problem is that the only Priscilla Thomas that I could find on the census before 1874, was this;
1871 Census:Leeds. Henrietta Thomas 1815 , Priscilla Thomas 1854, William Thomas 1852, Fanny Thomas 1867
I'm afraid I didn't note down more info when I had access to the census, except that William and Priscilla were married and Fanny was their daughter. I found a marriage for a Priscilla Thomas and William in 1867 Leeds, 9b 555
In 1881, Fanny is an inmate at the "Leeds Moral and Industrial Training School" in Leeds. and I can't find William or Henrietta in 1881.
For those of you who are still with me after this toooo long post ;DI was thinking and hoping that maybe Priscilla remarried in 1874 under her married name......Or, that her maiden name and married name were the same ??? ???
Any help would be great...Thanks,Gillian.
-
Gillian,
I'm getting very confused ;)
In your third sentence, did you actually mean marriage rather than birth certificate? If you have Priscilla's birth cert, then you know what her maiden name was! But, if you do mean birth cert, what were the names of her parents?
Also, you say that you have found a marriage for a William THOMAS and a Priscilla THOMAS in 1867 in Leeds. I can't find it on FreeBMD (there's a William THOMAS at the reference you gave but no Priscilla - but we know that FreeBMD is incomplete). If that's the case, then it seems quite likely that THOMAS might have been both the maiden and a married name (from a previous marriage) of the Priscilla who married James SKIPSEY.
Precisely what does it say on the 1874 marriage cert?
Is Priscilla recorded as a spinster or a widow? (Remember, she might not have told the truth! If William THOMAS was her first husband, she might not have told James that she'd been married previously - which would have been easier if her maiden name and the name of her first husband were the same! And there's always the possibility that William was still alive ...)
What is her father's name and occupation on the marriage cert?
And on the 1871 census (if you don't have the details, you could post a request for a lookup for this and also for 1861) was Priscilla recorded as Henrietta's daughter?
Incidentally, there's a death for a Henrietta THOMAS, age 66, in Leeds, Jun quarter 1875.
Whatever it is you really are trying to find out might be able to be sorted out here. Otherwise, I'd suspect you'd have to purchase (say) Fanny THOMAS's birth certificate or the cert for the 1867 marriage between (you say) William THOMAS & Priscilla THOMAS.
If Priscilla is recorded as Henrietta's daughter in 1871, it is interesting that James & Priscilla SKIPSEY named their first daughter Henrietta ...
Good luck,
JAP
-
Well here they are in 1881- so we have a starting point ;)
They have been transcribed as being spelt SKIPCEY.
James SKIPSEY Head 28 Leeds, York, Waste Willower (Woollen Cloth)
Priscilla SKIPSEY Wife 28 Leeds, York,
Henrietta SKIPSEY Daur 6 Leeds, York, Scholar
John W. SKIPSEY Son 4 Leeds, York, Scholar
Flory SKIPSEY Daur 2 Leeds, York,
127 Charles St Leeds, Yorkshire
RG11 / 4519 folio 6 Page 7
There is a marriage on FreeBMD for a James Skipsey and on the same page a Priscilla Thomas in Leeds in June 1874 ref 9b page 578.
Regards
Carol
-
RG10 4553/163 Page 13, 7 Turkingtons? Yard, Leeds:
Henrietta THOMAS, Head, Mar, 56, Washer Woman born Yorkshire On the Sea
William THOMAS, Son, Mar, 19, Cloth Dresser Woollen born Yorkshire Leeds
Priscilla THOMAS, Dau in law, Mar, 17, Mule Piecer born Yorkshire Leeds
Fanny THOMAS, Grand daur, 4, born Yorkshire, Leeds
Jean
-
RG9 3381/85 Page 19, 11 Billett St, Leeds:
Henrietta THOMAS, Head, N?, 45, Char Woman born Yorkshire Leeds
Ann THOMAS, Dau, Unm, 20, Flax Spinner born Yorkshire Leeds
Mary THOMAS, Dau, Unm, 15, Flax Spinner born Yorkshire Leeds
William THOMAS, Son, 9, Scholar born Yorkshire Leeds
Christiana THOMAS, Dau, 5, Scholar born Yorkshire Leeds
Harriet BOYS, Boarder, Unm, 24, Flax Spinner born Yorkshire Leeds
Jean
-
If you check www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk you will see that the 1867 marriage for William THOMAS was to Sarah A LONGBOTTOM at St Peter, Leeds.
Jean
-
So it seems that more facts are needed before anyone searches any further.
Gillian, I really do think that you need to tell us exactly what it says on the 1874 marriage certificate of Priscilla THOMAS & James Henry SKIPSEY (assuming that you are quite sure that these are your people).
Especially Priscilla's marital status and the name and occupation of her father.
And if that doesn't help, perhaps the 1867 birth certificate of Fanny THOMAS could be the next step. Remember, just because William & Priscilla were recorded as married in the 1871 census doesn't prove that they were married.
JAP
-
See also this thread- same family links.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,263035.msg1486227.html#msg1486227
-
Oh dear...just logged in and saw all the replies..... :-[ :-[
Okay..here goes:
Here's the confusion. :-[ I don't have the marriage certificate, I have the birth certificate of Maud Skipsey born 1891, daughter of James Henry Skipsey and Priscilla Skipsey, maiden name 'Thomas'. And the marriage certificate of Maud Skipsey to Harold Crossley in 1916, where the names coincide.
Well here they are in 1881- so we have a starting point ;)
They have been transcribed as being spelt SKIPCEY.
James SKIPSEY Head 28 Leeds, York, Waste Willower (Woollen Cloth)
Priscilla SKIPSEY Wife 28 Leeds, York,
Henrietta SKIPSEY Daur 6 Leeds, York, Scholar
John W. SKIPSEY Son 4 Leeds, York, Scholar
Flory SKIPSEY Daur 2 Leeds, York,
There is a marriage on FreeBMD for a James Skipsey and on the same page a Priscilla Thomas in Leeds in June 1874 ref 9b page 578.
This I know is my family. And I have Maud for the same family in 1901 at 3 Jameson St, Leeds
My investigation was to find Priscilla Thomas's family before her marriage. And the only Priscilla Thomas I could find was;RG10 4553/163 Page 13, 7 Turkingtons? Yard, Leeds:
Henrietta THOMAS, Head, Mar, 56, Washer Woman born Yorkshire On the Sea
William THOMAS, Son, Mar, 19, Cloth Dresser Woollen born Yorkshire Leeds
Priscilla THOMAS, Dau in law, Mar, 17, Mule Piecer born Yorkshire Leeds
Fanny THOMAS, Grand daur, 4, born Yorkshire, Leeds
So...me thinking....was Priscilla 'married' before to William?? And I'm so sorry I caused so much confusion :-[ I would have sent off for the marriage cert. but it takes weeks to get to where I am...but I reckon that's what I have to do.
Gillian
-
Priscilla seems incredibly young at 17 to be " married" to William and mum to 4 year old Fanny....although it is of course possible ;)
However I wondered if it meant step daughter.but going back to 1851 dad John Thomas is with the family and there's no mention of a Priscilla on any census other than 1881.
So........maybe they were just 'an item' and never actually married.
Can't find Fanny in 1881 though,nor Henrietta.And with a surname like Thomas it ain't going to be easy
This IS a puzzle isn't it? Don't worry about causing confusion,it's what we do best here ;D ;D ;D
Carol
-
I think it might be dangerous to 'assume' that Fanny is automatically the daughterof William and Priscilla.
Henrietta THOMAS, Head, Mar, 56, Washer Woman born Yorkshire On the Sea
William THOMAS, Son, Mar, 19, Cloth Dresser Woollen born Yorkshire Leeds
Priscilla THOMAS, Dau in law, Mar, 17, Mule Piecer born Yorkshire Leeds
Fanny THOMAS, Grand daur, 4, born Yorkshire, Leeds
She could well be the illegitimate daughter of one of Henrietta's older daughters, Mary or Ann
-
She could well be the illegitimate daughter of one of Henrietta's older daughters, Mary or Ann
Good thinking Batman ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
I knew you'd come along with some good ideas ;)
Carol
-
FreBMD has only one contender for little Fanny's birth:
Oc/Nov/Dec 1866
Leeds reg area
Fanny S Thomas
ref 9b 397
(P.S. Hi Carol!)
-
If you check www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk you will see that the 1867 marriage for William THOMAS was to Sarah A LONGBOTTOM at St Peter, Leeds.
Jean
So the S in little Fanny's name could stand for Sarah and it could be that the Sarah Longbottom that JDGen found,is in fact her birth mum.
Maybe the enumerator 'presumed' that William and Priscilla were married?
Carol
-
As Gillian said:
In 1881, Fanny is an inmate at the "Leeds Moral and Industrial Training School" in Leeds.
This Fanny certainly looks like a good candidate - ref. is RG11/4524 folio 127 p10.
I can't easily find her in 1891 or 1901.
Don't know whether this death is connected or just a coincidence:
Fanny S Thomas aged 46: Mar 1913 Islington 1b 326
Anna
-
Thanks Gillian for the explanation :)
So the known facts are that Priscilla SKIPSEY is recorded in the 1881 census as aged 28 and born Leeds. And that on the birth certificate of her daughter Maud, Priscilla's maiden name is recorded as THOMAS.
There's a likely candidate - Priscilla THOMAS, birth, March quarter 1854, Leeds.
I guess you've searched for Priscilla THOMAS, age ca 7, born Leeds in the 1861 census? If not that would be a good idea.
Best of luck,
JAP
PS: Carol, the reason you can't find Henrietta in 1881 could be that she was the Henrietta who passed away in 1875 (see reply #7 above).
-
Hi All,
Just because both William and Priscilla are shown as married doesn't mean that they were married to each other (you would only know for sure if William was head of household and Priscilla shown as wife). And daughter in law can mean all sorts of things like stepdaughter etc. Marital status could be wrong for Priscilla especially if it was just dittoed on the return. And Fanny, shown as grandaughter may not have any direct connection with either William or Priscilla......etc etc etc!
Gillian, I think you need that marriage certificate for Priscilla and James Skipsey... ;D OR someone who is going to the records office - at least we know the church.
Jean
-
How about this:
Births Mar 1854 THOMAS Priscilla Leeds 9b 352
Jean
-
Thank you to everyone:
Jean: I already had this Births Mar 1854 THOMAS Priscilla Leeds 9b 352
but when I found her 'married' I wasn't sure if it was her.
Jap: In 1861 Priscilla doesn't appear, it's just Henrietta 1816, Ann 1841, Mary 1846, William 1852 and Christiana 1856 ???
But thanks anyway for your help.
To every one, I think I have to agree with Jean ..I need the marriage cert of Priscilla and James Henry..so I'm going to post a Look up request for the Leeds reg. office. ;D ;D
My very best to all of you for your interest
Gillian.
P.S. Should I *complete* this thread now??
-
Hi Gillian,
Try this:
RG9 3231/16 Page 5, Shackleton, Wadsworth, Yorks (not sure about Yorks geography, is this near Leeds?):
Paul THOMAS, Head, Mar, 49, Farmer of 15 acres born Wadsworth, Yorkshire
Mary THOMAS, Wife, Mar, 46, Farmers wife born Wadsworth Yorkshire
William THOMAS, Son, Mar, 25, Ag Lab born Wadsworth Yorkshire
Sarah Ann THOMAS, Daur, Unm, 23, Cotton Factory Worker born Wadsworth Yorkshire
Grace THOMAS, Daur, Unm, 21, Cotton Factory Worker born Wadsworth Yorkshire
Mary THOMAS Daur, Unm, 19, Cotton Factory Worker born Wadsworth Yorkshire
Susan THOMAS, Daur, 15, Cotton Powerloom Weaver born Wadsworth Yorkshire
Priscilla THOMAS, Daur, 8, At Home born Wadsworth Yorkshire
Jean
Added: Birth for this Priscilla is Mar 1853 Todmorden 9a 191
-
Oops, scratch that, Wadsworth Priscilla is still at home in 1871, RG10 4325/26 Page 3 - what are the odds of two Priscilla Thomas's - wonder if they are related....
Jean
-
Hi Gillian,
Yes, I'd suggest that you complete this, but link this to your new thread, and link the new thread to this so that people can see what has been happening.
Best of luck, will be interested to know the outcome....
Jean
-
The accepted way was as some already mentioned eg.
Mary ****** formerly ******** nee *******
-
Help!!! ???
author=JDGen link=topic=263063.msg1487285#msg1487285 date=1193075943]
but link this to your new thread, and link the new thread to this so that people can see what has been happening.
I know how to complete but how do I link it?
-
Sorry, really botched that one up ;D ;D ;D
-
Hi Gillian,
Just copy the URL from your browser and past into the text.
Jean
-
Hello again Gillian,
It probably is a good idea to start a new thread.
Only because the Subject Line of this one doesn't indicate what you now need to find.
What you now need, I think, is a census lookup request in the 1861 and 1871 for Priscilla THOMAS born ca 1853/1854 Leeds.
And yes - any new thread needs a cross-reference to this thread.
(When you are posting the message on your new thread, just go up to the 'Address' box near the top of your screen; highlight what it says in that 'Address' box - it starts with http://www.rootschat etc; Copy it; then Paste it into your message).
So that RootsChatters don't duplicate searches which have already been carried out, the new thread also needs to mention that you already have the 1871 census details for the Priscilla THOMAS in the household of Henrietta THOMAS but that you are wondering if anyone can find an appropriate Priscilla in 1861 and/or another appropriate Priscilla THOMAS in 1871.
As I said in Reply #21 above:
So the known facts are that Priscilla SKIPSEY is recorded in the 1881 census as aged 28 and born Leeds. And that on the birth certificate of her daughter Maud, Priscilla's maiden name is recorded as THOMAS.
There's a likely candidate - Priscilla THOMAS, birth, March quarter 1854, Leeds.
I guess you've searched for Priscilla THOMAS, age ca 7, born Leeds in the 1861 census? If not that would be a good idea.
If I were you, I'd certainly try for the 1861 and for another Priscilla in the 1871. Actually, I suspect that the Priscilla in the 1871 census with Henrietta as hoh is quite likely to be yours - and that 'married' was a little fib. And I also feel confident that the Priscilla in 1871 is NOT Henrietta's daughter. But I have no proof.
Unfortunately, it may end up that you have to spend money :( getting the 1874 marriage cert of James SKIPSEY & Priscilla THOMAS, and perhaps that 1854 Leeds birth cert of a Priscilla THOMAS, and perhaps even the Dec qtr 1866 Leeds birth cert of Fanny S THOMAS. I hope not ;D
Best regards,
JAP