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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: clairhaines on Friday 19 October 07 06:23 BST (UK)
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I have finally traced a solid lead of my ancestors from Australia to England. I have the following information.
From 1851 census - Chichester
George Redman and Charlotte (nee Duck)
Children
George, Alfred, Rosa Frances, Edwin Joseph, Arthur Stephen
Have found that Charlotte and two children, Edwin and Arthur came to Australia in May 1855 on the "Mermaid". Haven't found how/when Edward and the rest of the children came out. But he arrived as he was listed on the marriage certificate of Edwin Joseph as running a hotel.
How can I keep going backwards and find out more about George and Charlotte and who there families were..... haven't done any research in England before, so I don't know where to start.
From the census, George's birth date would be 1819 and Charlotte's 1822.
Thanks everyone for your thoughts.
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don' know if you have this
marriage index
name george redman
y/o/r/ 1839
qtr. jul/aug/sapt.
dist. chichester.
county. sussex,west sussex.
vol. 7.
page. 269.
on the same page charlotte duck.
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Hi Claire, Welcome to the Sussex board of Rootschat :)
Well, you're in luck, I found their marriage on the Sussex Marriage Index (which normally only goes up to about 1837)
Chichester All Saints, West Sussex, 1 Jul 1839:
George REDMAN, full age bach carp South Pallant Chich
Charlotte DUCK, minor sp South Pallant Chich
I would say that CARP=carpenter
If Charlotte's age is correct on the census then she would have been only 17 when she married.
You say you don't know when EDWARD & the rest of the children went to Oz, do you mean GEORGE?
The 1851 census states George was born Chichester & Charlotte, Appledram which are adjacent parishes in West Sussex & right on the Hampshire border.
Your next move would be to get their marriage certificate which will give you parents names. It's on FreeBMD, September quarter 1839, Chichester registration district (7 269) A copy can be obtained from GRO (Google & you'll find their site)
The only likely siting of George & Charlotte in 1841 is this one;
1841 - Sutton, Ssx HO107/1094/11/8/9
Constant Redman 65
Samuel 35
CHARLOTTE 20
GEORGE 20
Eliza 5
Sarah 25
William 4
Charlotte 1
All born Sussex. Not sure what relationship they are to each other. I thought that maybe Constant was George's mother but I can't find a possible marriage on the Sussex Marriage Index.
jane
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The IGI has an extracted baptism for a Charlotte DUCK, 7 Jan 1821, at Appledram, Sussex, parents William and Charlotte, which is a possibility. Fits more with her age of 29 in 1851. A few siblings there as well from 1814 to 1836.
From the Sussex Marriage Index:
Archdeaconry of Chichester Marriage Licence, 19 Jun 1813
William DUCK, bach 21 mariner Bosham (sev.yrs)
Charlotte FARNDELL, sp 21 Appledram (sev.yrs)
Sponsors ss: W.D.; William F. /gardener Chichester
The actual marriage
Appledram, West Sussex, 22 Jun 1813
William DUCK, Bosham (lic) wcop
Charlotte FARNDELL, otp
Ian C
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Jane
I think the family you found may be another one altogether. They were all together in Sutton in 1851 as well. That George and Charlotte appear to be brother and sister. HO107; Piece: 1653; Folio: 98; Page: 13
There is a George REDMAN aged 20, a carpenter at St Bartholomew, which I understand is in Chichester - HO107; Piece 1119; Book: 3; Civil Parish: St Bartholomew; County: Sussex; Enumeration District: 7; Folio: 7; Page: 27. No sign of Charlotte.
If it is the Charlotte of 1821 then her mother Charlotte was a widow in Portsea in 1861. May have been a widow in 1841 as well as no sign of William - HO107; Piece 1100; Book: 2; Civil Parish: Appledram; County: Sussex; Enumeration District: 2; Folio: 4; Page: 2
Ian C
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There is a will available on DocumentsOnline for a William Duck, mariner of Appledram, dated 1847.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?queryType=1&resultcount=1&Edoc_Id=99976
He must have been at sea in 1841
Ian C
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I wasn't very confident with that 1841 census either, Ian. Your find looks to be the right one. I wonder where Charlotte was, maybe with her widowed mother? I'll have a look later when I've got more time. Meanwhile I think we should wait until we've heard from Claire :)
jane
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could this be williams wife charlotte in 1841
transcribed as duch
1841 HO107/1100/book2/4/2.
charlotte duch age 40. b. sussex.
edward duck age 15. b. sussex.
jas duck age 10. b. sussex.
alfred duck age 8. b. sussex.
frances duck age 6. b. sussex.
catherine duck age 4. b. sussex.
living in appledram,sussex
quite a few of the apparent heads of households on the page are mariners
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I've had a look for Charlotte (wife of George) in the 1841 census & can't find her :( Ian, that certainly looks like George in the 1841 & I can only assume that Charlotte was there but somehow got missed out on the enumerators sheet :-\
What looks to be their first child, George Henry, wasn't born until 1842 so can't track Charlotte via him ::)
jane
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In 1851 Charlotte DUCK, widow aged 57 is at Gosport Road, Fareham, Hampshire with daughter Catherine aged 16 - HO107; Piece: 1661; Folio: 127; Page: 28.
Her age transcribed as 27, but looks like 57 to me.
Ian C
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Hi Ian,
Yes, that's Charlotte's mother, I'm looking for Charlotte Redman nee Duck, George's wife :) Are we at crossed purposes here :)
jane
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Had found her mother in 1851 so posted it. Can't see Charlotte jnr anywhere in 1841 either. Agree with you Jane that she must have been missed off the enumerators sheet.
There is another REDMAN-DUCK marriage in 1832 at Bosham, Stephen REDMAN to Louisa DUCK. Wondering if they may be connected somewhere.
There are a number of REDMAN families in the Chichester area in 1841 that could be George's parents. Will need to wait for the marriage certificate to confirm this.
Ian C
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Clair
Looking on the Unassisted Passenger Lists on PROV website there is a George Redman adult, Alfred and George Jnr children, arrived on the Ben Nevis in January 1853. This could be George snr and the two elder sons, who came out first with the rest following later.
Charlotte 35, Edwin Josh 7, Frances 7, Arthur Stephen 5, and Laura Ellen 3, were on the Mermaid which arrived May 1835.
You can see these passenger lists on film at PROV in Melbourne.
Ian C
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Hi Ian,
It's very likely there is a connection with that other Redman/Duck marriage. Plenty of witness names to help solve the puzzle :)
I noticed on the 1851 census that George & Charlotte were not short of a bob or two as they had a couple of female servants, so an unassisted passage looks very probable as does the siting you found of Charlotte & younger kids following on a few months later :)
I also noticed from a quick sweep of A2A that the Redman family goes way back in Chichester, so that should be interesting for Claire to follow their trail :D
jane
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I am overwhelmed. Thank you so much!!
I posted my little question, went away for a couple of days and have came back and amazed at all the results people have found for me.
It has taken me a couple of hours to digest and think about what everyone has said.
I have found how all the Redmans came to Australia. George and the two oldest boys in 1853, and Charlotte and the 4 youngest almost three years later in May 1855.
I actually drove through the place they came to = Broomfield = today. They ran the Hotel (Inn) there. All that is left is 6 disused goldmines. No trace of the hotel. It was probably only a bark hut.
I have a couple of questions (I am sorry if they seem silly, but am only new to researching in the UK).
1. How do I get the marriage certificate of George and Charlotte? I got onto the GRO and got into the order marriage certificate. But when i put in the year, it came up with an error and stated that "GRO index has to be givenfor pre-1900 E&W birth, death and marriage applications"
What is that???
2. What is the IGI?
I am sure I will have heaps of questions, but it is now 10.30pm way past my bed time, so I might go and get into bed and "sleep on it"
Thanks so much everyone again - especially Ian and Jane. If you need anything done in Australia. Just let me know.
Clair
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IGI is the International Genealogical Index & you can find it at the Church of the Latter Day Saints site here http://www.familysearch.org/ Look for EXTRACTED records rather than member submitted ones (usually a work of fiction :))
As far as the ordering of the marriage certificate is concerned, I understand that there are research places in Oz who make orders with the GRO in the UK on behalf of their members. Ian would be the best person to comment on that.
The certificate you want is in the September quarter 1839. Chichester registration district. Volume 7, page 269. George Redman & Charlotte Duck.
There is a good explanation of ordering certificates on the FreeBMD site here; http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/Certificates.html
There's also a good beginners page here on Rootschat with some good links, but don't be afraid to ask if you get stuck http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,47.0.html
jane
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Not sure how to order certs in Australia as I am in NZ. I usually get them through our Genealogy Society who has an ordering service, and not online from the GRO.
The Genealogy Society in Victoria may help. Or keep trying on the GRO site. I had a look at it and as long as you fill in the right boxes and check the ones that need checking I got through okay, not having been in there before. We know the reg details so that box should be checked yes on the page that comes up first. The actual details are entered on a later page.
Perhaps someone could do some screen captures of the order forms and add some notes to them as to how to fill in the forms.
Ian C
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Thanks guys for that.
With a lovely sleep behind me, I had another look at ordering the marriage certificate from the GRO and I was successful. Will let you know the results when I recieve the certificate. It normally takes around a week to 10 days for letters to get from the UK to Australia. So it may be a while before I know which path to take for George Redman.
Thanks for all your help.
Clair
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Let us know how you get on, Claire :)
jane
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Hi Guys,
Just to touch base. I haven't recieved the marriage certificate yet, but my dad just uncovered a letter written by George Redman telling his life story. I haven't seen it yet but it sounds fantastic; right down to his telling about witnessing the Eureka Stockade in Ballarat and visiting a wounded soldier who was his friend after the campaign. In this letter it states who his parents were.
Charles Redman (1790 - 1869) and Kesia Read (1780-1880)
I have tracked them down in the 1841 and 1851 census' and will continue looking. Now the challenge to go back further!!!!!
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Clair
The IGI has an entry for the marriage of Charles and Kesia - 13 OCT 1815 Saint Peter The Great Or Subdeanery Of Chichester, Chichester, Sussex . Looks like it could be submitted. Will check the SMI later to see if there is any further info.
There are a few Charles and Kesias in Sussex on the IGI, which are possibilities. Depends where they were born.
Ian C
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Thanks for that marriage date, it checks out with what I have just found also. Kezia Read (according to some notes I have) was born in Harting, Sussex around 1780. Charles was born around 1790 in Chichester.
I also found their burial details
Charles REDMAN
died 29 May 1870 aged 79 years
The Pallant Yard, Chichester, All Saints, Sussex
Kezia REDMAN
died 27 March 1880 aged 100 years
Buried All Saints Churchyard, Chichester
They had three children
George (my ancestor)
Harriett (dress maker and spinster) died around 1885
Frederick (carpenter and bachelor) died around 1895
I have found that Charles REDMAN was a great carpenter and built the enlargements to St. Peter the Less Church, Chichester around 1850.
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There is a baptism for a Kezia in Harting in 1782, daughter of William Read and Kezia. William REED married Kezia MORGAN 23 Jul 1769, Harting.
Where did you get the burial details from?
Ian C
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I got the burial details from
www.familyhistoryonline.net
You can sign up for free, search for free, but to view the results you need to pay. I got lucky I thinkg with these two burials, as when I tried other people, I didn't have as much luck.
Where did you get the baptism for Kezia and Marriage for William and Kezia??
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From the IGI which is the International Genealogical Index, accessible from the LDS website
http://www.familysearch.org
They have microfilmed a lot of the English records
Have had a look at the Sussex Marriage Index, nothing additional
Chichester St. Peter the Great, West Sussex, 13 Oct 1815
Charles REDMAN, Chich. All Saints
Kezia READ, Chich. St.Bart (B)
Harting, West Sussex, 23 Jul 1769
William REED, (READ)
Kezia MORGAN, botp (B)
Ian C
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What a fantastic find Claire, that letter. Every researcher dreams of such things. Let us know if you need anymore help :)
jane
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Hi I wonder if you had any information on the Louisa Duck that was mentioned earlier in the thread?? She married Stephen Redman and they are my dads 3rd great grandparents. I don't have any parents for louisa so would be interested to know if she was related to george etc.
Thanks
Tasha