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General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: downside on Thursday 18 October 07 13:13 BST (UK)
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The final programme in this series which should take us from 2006 to 1066 in 60 minutes, so don't blink or you will miss something.
The Carol Vorderman repeat is on at 12:55 for those who missed it the first time around.
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that should be interesting to go that far back ... A bit of quick time travel going on there ;)
Thanks
Debz
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The final programme now that is depressing, looking forward to tonight's, maybe they have saved the best for last ;D
Jane
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The Carol Vorderman repeat is on at 12:55 for those who missed it the first time around.
Thanks for that. ;)
I missed it first time round.
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Great programme. Echoed a similar experience of mine when I finally plugged into the blood line all the way to Charlemagne and beyond
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How fun.
Now I can tell all those church folk that I'm related to Jesus. ;)
I felt it was more of a history lesson this week, but was still very interesting to hear about cousin Matthew's family. ::)
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WOW!! Wasn't that interesting! Couldn't happen to a nicer bloke.
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I need to find a 'Gateway Ancestor'.................................................
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WOW - what a great direct line and so good to see someone genuinely interested.
I enjoyed this episode, but what am I going to watch now on a Thursday, mind you they did say that WDYTYA will return next year.
Jane
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I need to find a 'Gateway Ancestor'.................................................
Gateway Ancestors are particularly handy when you are broke. Alls that you need is an internet connection. So far I've got the Dukes of Bavaria and the Electors of Brandenburg to name a few!
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Enjoyed the prog tonight, I NEED a gateway ancestor. Nice to see it will be back on next year
Simon
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That was brilliant, no wonder they saved the best 'til last :o
He's such a lovely guy ;D
It must be fantastic to be able to find something like that in your tree...sigh
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My Gateway ancestor was a London lawyer's daughter without a noble name or title... but had an aristocratic background.
Never ignore maternal lines.. most "Gateway Ancestors" are women
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So true... OHs is a woman too, mind you most of the men in his family seemed to have married money!
Wonder where he went wrong ;D
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I loved this episode too - and what a nice guy he is.
The only thing I thought was a shame was that that last revelation was foreshadowed (and therefore "spoiled") in the BBC trailer for the series. I wish the news had come as a surprise to me as it did to Matthew :D
But what a fantastic document that old parchment scroll was - Wodun, Adam and Eve, Jesus, God. Can't beat that!
Anna
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Wow that was so interesting ... I hope he visits rootschat now ;D ;D ;D... though he doen't really need help now ...it's all been done !! ;) Think of al lthe research one could do with all that in one's family history ??? :o :o I bet he's addicted now ...just like the rest of us !! ;D ;D
Poll
OH avm I hadnt seen the trailer ...so it was a surprise !!
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What I found just as fascinating was the Shanghai stuff about the opium trade. Matthew pinsent was clearly uncomfortable about that (and no doubt was having trouble rationalising it Like Graham Norton last week on the massacres).
JULIAN
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My Gateway ancestor was a London lawyer's daughter without a noble name or title... but had an aristocratic background.
Never ignore maternal lines.. most "Gateway Ancestors" are women
I agree. They are always women. I see itas flogging off the daughters all in the name of politics and cash flow.
My gateway ancestor was illegitimate. Don't know if that still counts, but it works for me. Her father was virtually bankrupt and living in a ruined castle before it became Scotland's first mainland lighthouse in 1787 (Fraserburgh Castle). He was then put up by his nephew the Lord Saltoun of Abernethy. He was good enough to leave his 'natural' daughter (and only child) 20 pound in his will. She refused it for him wronging her mother (probably just a romantic fairytale gone wrong).
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As Matt implied... We are all God's children
S'nice to have the proof though! ;)
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My Gateway ancestor was a London lawyer's daughter without a noble name or title... but had an aristocratic background.
Never ignore maternal lines.. most "Gateway Ancestors" are women
I agree. They are always women. I see itas flogging off the daughters all in the name of politics and cash flow.
My gateway ancestor was illegitimate. Don't know if that still counts, but it works for me. Her father was virtually bankrupt and living in a ruined castle before it became Scotland's first mainland lighthouse in 1787 (Fraserburgh Castle). He was then put up by his nephew the Lord Saltoun of Abernethy. He was good enough to leave his 'natural' daughter (and only child) 20 pound in his will. She refused it for him wronging her mother (probably just a romantic fairytale gone wrong).
That sounds very exciting and romantic! :o Of course illegitimate counts.. William the Conqueror was a b*st*rd himself, after all... and those Heralds scrolls didnt seem to mind!
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I really enjoyed this one I loved the look on his face when he was told he was decended from Edward 1st
On the other side his poor GUncle committing suicide because he thought he had failed his mission was so sad and his poor grandmother didnt know the whole truth
I havent got any gateway ancestors - were all common stock and brick walls lol
Willow x
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I really enjoyed this one I loved the look on his face when he was told he was decended from Edward 1st
On the other side his poor GUncle committing suicide because he thought he had failed his mission was so sad and his poor grandmother didnt know the whole truth
I havent got any gateway ancestors - were all common stock and brick walls lol
Willow x
Take heart Willow. I started tracing my family tree in 1978
and found my gateway ancestor this April just gone
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Thanx Ludovica
Suppose that the thing about genealogy - where just tenacious lol
Love my lot no matters where they come from - funny thing is I was just saying to the OH my Hilton side were locksmiths and that was one of the trades Wolverhampton was built on (a lock is on the city coat of arms) so I'm proud of that
A gateway would just make things easier sigh
Willow x
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Thanx Ludovica
Suppose that the thing about genealogy - where just tenacious lol
Love my lot no matters where they come from - funny thing is I was just saying to the OH my Hilton side were locksmiths and that was one of the trades Wolverhampton was built on (a lock is on the city coat of arms) so I'm proud of that
A gateway would just make things easier sigh
Willow x
.. and my wealthy gateway family were wastrels and idiots... one boy (my ancestor), died young with four infant children, terribly in debt from playing cards etc with his Militia chums... and his sister eloped with ... :o a servant :o spent the short time she had left writing begging letters to her rich relations and lamenting she had no money for shoes!
Its so tough at the top! lol
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I was just saying to the OH my Hilton side were locksmiths and that was one of the trades Wolverhampton was built on (a lock is on the city coat of arms) so I'm proud of that
One of my distant cousins (her great grandmother is my gateway) was a maid to the later Lord Saltouns. She always used to show up the Lord by reminding him, as his cousin, that he was no better than anyone else.
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Great programme, the BBC definitely saved the best til last. Fascinating family history - all of the programmes in this series seem to have concentrated more on what was happening at the time, not just a list of names and dates. Loved it.
Ludovicia - please tell us about your gateway ancestor and how you found them. I must have missed the story back in April - is there a link to another thread?
Cheers
Ruby
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I was just saying to the OH my Hilton side were locksmiths and that was one of the trades Wolverhampton was built on (a lock is on the city coat of arms) so I'm proud of that
One of my distant cousins (her great grandmother is my gateway) was a maid to the later Lord Saltouns. She always used to show up the Lord by reminding him, as his cousin, that he was no better than anyone else.
Lol my type of girl - where would these men be without women to burst their balloon every now and then
Willow x
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Great programme, the BBC definitely saved the best til last. Fascinating family history - all of the programmes in this series seem to have concentrated more on what was happening at the time, not just a list of names and dates. Loved it.
Ludovicia - please tell us about your gateway ancestor and how you found them. I must have missed the story back in April - is there a link to another thread?
Cheers
Ruby
H?i Ruby :) no I haven't really gone into much detail on here as far as I recall. Perhaps I will sometime soon though if anyone is interested.
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Yes please sometime, Ludovica, I would be really interested. All my lot were boilermakers, iron moulders or agricultural labourers with the odd brickmaker or quarryman thrown in. Be nice to know how the other half lives!
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According to his tree,God is his 1st.cousin 19X removed...or am I wrong.
My gateway ancestor was the last High Sheriff of Shropshire which took me back to the 1300's.Am now looking for God.
Jim
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According to his tree,God is his 1st.cousin 19X removed...or am I wrong.
My gateway ancestor was the last High Sheriff of Shropshire which took me back to the 1300's.Am now looking for God.
Jim
Lol, It'd be a few more "greats" than that. About "50x greatgrand" will only take you back to around about the Sack of Rome
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According to my family tree software, Charlemagne is my greatx40 grandfather. So the God claim would be a good bit further back. :)
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Never was any good at sums. :-[
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As long as your not waiting for God Jim!
Willow x
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I thought we all were Willow
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I thought we all were Willow
Naw Jim I intend to give him a good run for his money lol ;)
Willow x
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I think I might give up and go South.
Just a thought but if we're all related to God does that mean we're all related to the Devil as well. :o
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I did enjoy tonight's episode, because it was different. I'd managed not to read any of the trailers so it was a surprise to me.
However, I'm going to go against the general feeling here, because I don't think it WAS the best. It's a personal thing, but I think people from fairly aristocratic backgrounds don't really have that much trouble finding their ancestors. Just look at the pictures hanging on their walls going back generations. Not many of us have that much of a headstart when we begin our family tree.
I find the programmes taking celebrities back to ancestors in the workhouse, or lowly Ag Labs, far more fascinating. They're the people we should be honouring and celebrating - giving the Invisible lives their brief glory - the Howard family have already had theirs.
Maybe I'm just biased - but I wouldn't want to watch this episode again, and it's not often I say that about WDYTYA.
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Yes it is pretty straitforward when you find your gateway ancestor but I'd swap one of my ag.labs. for Catherine Howard any day.She's the sort of ancestor we all hope to find...but never do.
Jim
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Not a lot to say about his one, a sad beginning and a happy end.
I loved it.
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Well,
The buzz word from this particular episode seems to be "Gateway", which means you sit back and see all those generations roll back in an unerring line to Adam.
Does having a Gateway laptop, as I do, speed the process, I wonder...
Seriously, who knows if the iron determination of Edward Ist might have passed down in the genes to Matthew Pinsent and his incredible self-discipline that enabled him to win four consecutive Olympic medals for rowing...
keith
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I did enjoy tonight's episode, because it was different. I'd managed not to read any of the trailers so it was a surprise to me.
However, I'm going to go against the general feeling here, because I don't think it WAS the best. It's a personal thing, but I think people from fairly aristocratic backgrounds don't really have that much trouble finding their ancestors. Just look at the pictures hanging on their walls going back generations. Not many of us have that much of a headstart when we begin our family tree.
I find the programmes taking celebrities back to ancestors in the workhouse, or lowly Ag Labs, far more fascinating. They're the people we should be honouring and celebrating - giving the Invisible lives their brief glory - the Howard family have already had theirs.
Maybe I'm just biased - but I wouldn't want to watch this episode again, and it's not often I say that about WDYTYA.
Interesting. Actually I agree to some degree. A humble person rediscovered is worth 5 ancestors who are well known because you really have to dig hard, but as I said it took me best part of 29 years before I found that Gateway Ancestor and that is just one of my 5x great grandmothers (and her husband). Plenty of other directions to look as well.. with Mr Pinsent also, as the visit to Winchester College and the tank museum were the highlight of the programme for me.
In my case, my gateway ancestor led to middle class gentry families but not aristocracy until quite far back into the 15th century where other gateway ancestors appeared.. it was only after that it went silly and became traceable via any encyclopedia
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I think I might give up and go South.
Just a thought but if we're all related to God does that mean we're all related to the Devil as well. :o
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I think I might give up and go South.
Just a thought but if we're all related to God does that mean we're all related to the Devil as well. :o
Of course.
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I enjoyed it too- i'd give anything to find out the trades of all my ancestors going back that far famous or not.
Why were they still not wearing gloves with those documents. Were they copies of the originals ?
It was good but a bit silly at the end but interesting
debz
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Hi everyone
I thought this episode was brilliant :)
I thought the beginning was sad when he found out about his WW1 ancestors. Matthew looked uncomfortable when he found out about the Opium trade, but thought it was lovely when he found his connections to Catherine Howard and royalty.
I must admit to missing a couple of previous episodes but did see Carol Vorderman and Graham Norton :o :o - I know shame on me!
FEK 33
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I really enjoyed last nights WDYTYA.
It came as a surprise to me as I had no seen any trailers.
So Matthew is related to Katherine Howard, do you think he will start watching the Tudors now ;D
I found the beginning interesting too, and how he lost 3 men in WW1.
One a suicide.
If he was going to commit suicide, better he killed some of the enemy whilst doing it ;)
I can't wait for next years WDYTYA.
I think they should have a competition so us "normal, non celeb" type can have a chance.
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What a interesting programe...
Yes would be good to take a ordinary person instead of a celeb to do one of these programes...
Lets hope it returns next year.....
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It will return next year.
I saw Patsy Palmer at the LMA last week being filmed for the new series.
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I still say the griff rhys Jones episode was the best of all episodes not just this series
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I still say the griff rhys Jones episode was the best of all episodes not just this series
It has to be Jeremy Paxman for me.
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I agree Jeremy Paxman and Stephen Fry
Jane
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The Carol Vorderman repeat is on at 12:55 for those who missed it the first time around.
Thanks for that. ;)
I missed it first time round.
I'm fated not to see this episode - I fell asleep again at the same place as last time :-\
Rena
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I didn't see Stephen Fry's episode.
Oh No Rena, what are you like. ::)
We will have to have a look for you and see when it's repeated AGAIN!!!!!!!! ;D
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OK I have most of them on dvd hardrive if anyone wants a copy of them, as I get withdrawals and the TV is garbage usually this way I can watch which ever one I want, when I want
Send me a pm
Jane
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Oh You Lot, you do make me laugh! It's good to log in at least once a day.
I needn't both looking for ancestors/descendants any longer as we are all related.
Very interesting programme although I thought the beginning bit in Shanghai was a bit slow and boring (Dare I say That?).
Hubby fell asleep as usual....
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I thoroughly enjoyed this episode, not least for Matthew's attitude and genuine interest about everything he discovered.
I recently found a "gateway" ancestor for my husband's 1/2 sister and was able to trace her line thro John of Gaunt to Edward I. I wonder how many x/removed cousin she is to Matthew!!!
Ellen
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Very interesting programme although I thought the beginning bit in Shanghai was a bit slow and boring (Dare I say That?).
I thought that bit was interesting as it showed one reason why China shut itself off from the world and why Britain banned the drug in early 20th century.
Thanks for the offers for Carol's episode, but I believe the BBC has scheduled a lot of repeats and no doubt WDYTYA will be shown again and again and again.
Rena
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I need to find a 'Gateway Ancestor'.................................................
me too!
i was slightly confused over why,i think it was Matthews great? grandmother, was shown as a chinese girl (the photo in the boat) when her parents were British, did i miss something?
other than that it was a very good programme role on next years programme (can't they bring it forward to January?)
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I don't want to find a Gateway Ancestor!! Am I alone in this?
Not that I need to worry about it because it's never going to happen - I'm about as royal as Ricky Tomlinson!! ::)
Seriously though, I don't want to find that all the research has already been done and have someone roll out scrolls of generations which don't really mean anything because I haven't found them gradually, generation by generation.
I quite enjoyed this episode but did find my attention wandering a bit - it was all just a little bit too easy, too pat.
Definetly the best of the series was Griff Rhys Jones - he started out admitting he'd never really been that interested, and then it sucked him in and away he went... and we all know what that's like!
Best ever - I agree with pettsy - it has to be Jeremy Paxman.
Jill
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Paxo and Griff for me, without a doubt.
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WDYTYA's greatest hits for me are
Series 1: Meera Syal; Moira Stuart
Series 2: Sheila Hancock, Stephen Fry
Series 3: Nigella Lawson, Nicky Campbell
Series 4: Alastair McGowan, Graham Norton
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It was a great program to watch, very interesting.
I think I may have a 'gateway ancestor' - General Montgomery - possible relative of my great grandmother Isabella Montgomery and a link to Rington's tea in Newcastle too.
I wonder if the BBC could trace the connection for me !!!
Margaret
???
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If only I could find out who John Elton's parents were who died in Ledbury in 1683, the OH might well have his gateway ancestor ( yup back to Edward I as well)
The only trouble about linking into royalty is that you then seem to be descended from every great figure in early British history - you name them and yes, that's gt gt gt whatever grandpop ::) It's not just himself up there - the OH would be descended from Alfred the Great as well (I find that just as impressive!)
Carole
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OH would be descended from Alfred the Great
If he is good at burning cakes you may be on to something big. :)
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OH would be descended from Alfred the Great
If he is good at burning cakes you may be on to something big. :)
Chance would be a fine thing! ;D
Carole
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I enjoyed this one, completely the opposite to my family of miners, ag labs, and mariners. We haven't even got a photo of my gr grandparents, let alone family portraits, they didn't have the money for photos.
I got a bit lost around the god part. I can never quite get my head around the God - Adam and Eve - Kane and Abel versus Dinosaurs - caveman - neanderthal man etc.
I would rather believe the theory of evolving from a fish like the Guiness advert ;D
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I really enjoyed Matthews WDYTYA. However it was very sad to think of all those young boys being killed in WW1 just having left school with their futures before them. George who took his own life was only 18 fresh out of school. He must have been so overcome by despair at the thought of failure to resort to suicide.
Discovering he was related to Kings must have given Matthew such a great feeling. His Mother must have been elated. I laughed out loud when the scoll was rolled back to reveal God ;D
Su
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WDYTYA's greatest hits for me are
Series 1: Meera Syal; Moira Stuart
Series 2: Sheila Hancock, Stephen Fry
Series 3: Nigella Lawson, Nicky Campbell
Series 4: Alastair McGowan, Graham Norton
Oh how can I forget Nicky Campbell. Another great one.
Which "celebs" would you like to see on next years show?
I would like to see the guy who played Carmel's boyfriend in the early Eastenders, and also The Bill, Stephen Hartley, because his nan and mine were cousin. ;D
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Would like to see Sir Ian Botham, Peter Kay amd maybe Delboy aka David Jason
Jane
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L L Bowen has been seen at a Gwent R O. Hopefully linking him to the Monmouthshire chartist movement, Phil
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"I laughed out loud when the scoll was rolled back to reveal God"
now I know why some people on genes have jesus and god in their tree's [lol]
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Hyacinth Bucket ( sorry Bouquet !) in character would be priceless ...can you imagine her finding ag labs in her pedigree !! ;D ;D ;D
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she could have been fantastic on a spoof "this is your life"
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I don't want to find a Gateway Ancestor!! Am I alone in this?
No, Jill you are not alone.
I can never understand folk who, it seems, all they want is to find someone else who is descended from the same ancestors, or someone else who has already researched the tree. I would rather trace the tree myself, so I know who the descendents are first - then if I ever meet any of them that it a bonus.
In my mind there is no fun or sense of achievement in having it all handed to you on a plate. Much better to find out for yourself, step by step.
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Hi,
My claim to fame is my 6x cousin Sir Palph Pendlebury, b feb 14 1790. Founder of Sir Ralph Pendlebury's Charity for Orphans. He built Pendlebury Hall. He left all his fortune to the orphanage. Thats my kind of hero.
Lynn H.
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This was a fantastic episode for me ... my great uncle was working for Jardine Mathieson in China, 1919 when he died (some say murdered but I'm still trying to verify that).
I almost jumped out of my chair when they started talking about it and found all the info really useful about what life must have been like for him.
Does anyone know when the repeat is?
Anthea
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I recently found that I'm a relation of J. B. McLachlan.
He was a socialist/Communist particularly famous in the coal mines of Nova Scotia. He is something like my 1st cousin removed 4 times.
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I was very lucky to find a gateway ancestor after getting in touch with a distant cousin via the internet who helped me get back to the late 1600s and a 10 x G Grandfather who was rector in Calstock in Cornwall and a Chaplain in Ordinary to Charles II .
Between us we've done a great deal of further research that led us back to his roots in Jersey and the family of his wife Elizabeth le Hardy. Her grandmother was Elizabeth de Carteret and she's our gateway. From her we've also been able to find an well documented ancestry back to Edward I, via two of his children, Thomas of Brotherton (was he the same one as Matthew Pinset found?) and Joan of Acre. It was amazing to find such famous historical families such as the Pembrokeshire Marshalls, the de Clares and the de Braose in my own direct ancestry.
However, the most exciting thing of all was to see my heroine of 25 years Eleanor of Aquataine is a direct ancestor all be it about 33 generations back!! All my life I'd read everything I could about her so finding that, I was rather taken aback :)
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Bloomin' 'eck... Missed it ! The magic box did not work..
Does anyone know if this is repeated anywhere ????
Sarah
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I've just been googling and found this link. Although they aren't giving dates for this week's programme it may be worth keeping an eye out on here.
http://uk-tv-guide.com/programme-details/BBC+1/25+October+2007/23:55/Who+Do+You+Think+You+Are%3F/History+Documentary/
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I was very lucky to find a gateway ancestor after getting in touch with a distant cousin via the internet who helped me get back to the late 1600s and a 10 x G Grandfather who was rector in Calstock in Cornwall and a Chaplain in Ordinary to Charles II .
Between us we've done a great deal of further research that led us back to his roots in Jersey and the family of his wife Elizabeth le Hardy. Her grandmother was Elizabeth de Carteret and she's our gateway. From her we've also been able to find an well documented ancestry back to Edward I, via two of his children, Thomas of Brotherton (was he the same one as Matthew Pinset found?) and Joan of Acre. It was amazing to find such famous historical families such as the Pembrokeshire Marshalls, the de Clares and the de Braose in my own direct ancestry.
However, the most exciting thing of all was to see my heroine of 25 years Eleanor of Aquataine is a direct ancestor all be it about 33 generations back!! All my life I'd read everything I could about her so finding that, I was rather taken aback :)
I am also descended from Eleanor of Aquitaine..
I give up on the number of greats because so many intertwining lines short circuit the system so while my shortest route to Eleanor is 24 x great Grandmother, her daughter Eleanor is my 25th great grandmother by another route and although King John is my 23x great grandfather, Henry III his son, by the shortest route is 24th again.. sounds crazy I know, but multiple descents get rather intergenerationally tangled
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I was very lucky to find a gateway ancestor after getting in touch with a distant cousin via the internet who helped me get back to the late 1600s and a 10 x G Grandfather who was rector in Calstock in Cornwall and a Chaplain in Ordinary to Charles II .
Between us we've done a great deal of further research that led us back to his roots in Jersey and the family of his wife Elizabeth le Hardy. Her grandmother was Elizabeth de Carteret and she's our gateway. From her we've also been able to find an well documented ancestry back to Edward I, via two of his children, Thomas of Brotherton (was he the same one as Matthew Pinset found?) and Joan of Acre. It was amazing to find such famous historical families such as the Pembrokeshire Marshalls, the de Clares and the de Braose in my own direct ancestry.
However, the most exciting thing of all was to see my heroine of 25 years Eleanor of Aquataine is a direct ancestor all be it about 33 generations back!! All my life I'd read everything I could about her so finding that, I was rather taken aback :)
I am also descended from Eleanor of Aquitaine..
I give up on the number of greats because so many intertwining lines short circuit the system so while my shortest route to Eleanor is 24 x great Grandmother, her daughter Eleanor is my 25th great grandmother by another route and although King John is my 23x great grandfather, Henry III his son, by the shortest route is 24th again.. sounds crazy I know, but multiple descents get rather intergenerationally tangled
It is pretty bad on my tree as well.
My great great grandparents, who were first cousins, both share the gateway ancestor. If we go just a bit further back, you find that their grandmother married a man who has a separate claim through my gateway ancestors uncle. It seems the Gordon boys liked the Broadsea locals. Then ofcourse you finally get to the Frasers of Philorth who were sometime breeding partners with the aforementioned Gordons of Kinnellar. If we go a bit further back, I descend from Joan Beaufort through both her first marriage to James I of Scotland, and her second marriage to James Stewart, Lord of Lorn.
The end result is that Edward I appears on my tree a good number of times. I have links to (from memory) three of his sons - John of Gaunt, Edward II, and the Earls of Kent (I think the Earls of Kent are his children or grandchildren, unless I'm thinking of Somerset which also appears in my tree).
Edit: not John of Gaunt - he was Edward III's son.
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Good grief I feel like a pauper on this thread :-[
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Good grief I feel like a pauper on this thread :-[
I guess a lot of us ARE descended from royalty (legit or otherwise) but we just haven't found that link yet.
And if I'm not ..... all those jokes about ag labs being interbred because they never moved very far - well that's nothing to the very small gene pool of the royals/aristocracy ;) ;D
Carole
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I was very lucky to find a gateway ancestor after getting in touch with a distant cousin via the internet who helped me get back to the late 1600s and a 10 x G Grandfather who was rector in Calstock in Cornwall and a Chaplain in Ordinary to Charles II .
Between us we've done a great deal of further research that led us back to his roots in Jersey and the family of his wife Elizabeth le Hardy. Her grandmother was Elizabeth de Carteret and she's our gateway. From her we've also been able to find an well documented ancestry back to Edward I, via two of his children, Thomas of Brotherton (was he the same one as Matthew Pinset found?) and Joan of Acre. It was amazing to find such famous historical families such as the Pembrokeshire Marshalls, the de Clares and the de Braose in my own direct ancestry.
However, the most exciting thing of all was to see my heroine of 25 years Eleanor of Aquataine is a direct ancestor all be it about 33 generations back!! All my life I'd read everything I could about her so finding that, I was rather taken aback :)
I am also descended from Eleanor of Aquitaine..
I give up on the number of greats because so many intertwining lines short circuit the system so while my shortest route to Eleanor is 24 x great Grandmother, her daughter Eleanor is my 25th great grandmother by another route and although King John is my 23x great grandfather, Henry III his son, by the shortest route is 24th again.. sounds crazy I know, but multiple descents get rather intergenerationally tangled
It is pretty bad on my tree as well.
My great great grandparents, who were first cousins, both share the gateway ancestor. If we go just a bit further back, you find that their grandmother married a man who has a separate claim through my gateway ancestors uncle. It seems the Gordon boys liked the Broadsea locals. Then ofcourse you finally get to the Frasers of Philorth who were sometime breeding partners with the aforementioned Gordons of Kinnellar. If we go a bit further back, I descend from Joan Beaufort through both her first marriage to James I of Scotland, and her second marriage to James Stewart, Lord of Lorn.
The end result is that Edward I appears on my tree a good number of times. I have links to (from memory) three of his sons - John of Gaunt, Edward II, and the Earls of Kent (I think the Earls of Kent are his children or grandchildren, unless I'm thinking of Somerset which also appears in my tree).
Edit: not John of Gaunt - he was Edward III's son.
Edward I only makes it on mine as 23x gt granduncle as I am descended from Edmund Crouchback
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Good grief I feel like a pauper on this thread :-[
I guess a lot of us ARE descended from royalty (legit or otherwise) but we just haven't found that link yet.
And if I'm not ..... all those jokes about ag labs being interbred because they never moved very far - well that's nothing to the very small gene pool of the royals/aristocracy ;) ;D
Carole
This is right. Many family historians concentrate on their Paternal family because of the name presumably, but I have to say, having got as far as I could with that, (woodcutters and ag labs in the last quarter of the 15th C) there was so MUCH else left to do (and still is)
My Gateway Ancestor was my mother's, mother's, mother's, father's, father's, father's mother.. and her husband's mother is also a Gateway Ancestor. The direct descendents of this couple, by primogeniture are still living in the same house that our ancestors lived in in the 17th century and my Mum and I have been invited to tea there next month to view the house and the family portraits etc.. which I am immensely excited about :) ;D
So I say to everyone, dont give up on "Marye, hys wyffe"... she could be that "missing link" to a whole new adventure in genealogy
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Do you think ignoring the female side is a male thing? A lot of the most interesting things I've found have come through the female side, girls inherit property too .....
Carole
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Do you think ignoring the female side is a male thing? A lot of the most interesting things I've found have come through the female side, girls inherit property too .....
Carole
Strange isnt it?
I supplied a male relative with a gedcom of his direct ancestors, and when I looked at his webpage he had erased all thos ancestors associated with maternal lines! D'oh!
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Oooooh yes! Those girls had more power than they credit them with in the old days...
In the late 1500s one of my lot left lock stock and barrel to his wife...when she died, she left everything to the second son. For some reason first son didn't even get a wooden spoon let alone a mucke carte, wheled or otherwise.
I wonder what he did to upset his mum....apart from marrying a Tattum, that is....
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I think it was the Victorians that made women down trodden ::) Georgian women were much more emancipated - and it's rubbish all his "everything they had went to their husbands when they married" stuff.
Carole
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I think the Victorians had a lot to answer for, bigoted, prudish, anti-women, perhaps because they had a female queen, the men had to prove that they were the best at everything else. ::) ::)
Liz
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Do you think ignoring the female side is a male thing? A lot of the most interesting things I've found have come through the female side, girls inherit property too .....
Of course it is easier to follow the male lines, because the surname remains the same. But for the 19th century, I seem to have done better with some of my female lines. When I started I had better info on the female lines than the male lines.
My theory: family folklore is taught at your mother's knee, so it is bound to be stronger on the female side.
JULIAN
(No Gateway Ancestors, and not disappointed about it 8))
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I should think that it is only when following the female side that you can be 100% that you have the correct ancestors. What is that saying - "It is a wise man that knows his own father." How many of our male ancestors have brought up another man's baby without knowing?
Just a thought!
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Edward I only makes it on mine as 23x gt granduncle as I am descended from Edmund Crouchback
I've got Edmund as well. He is my 23xgreat grandfather.
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Often following the male line is just a way of 'containing' the tree, so it doesnt get out of control. i'm talking the sort of tree that stats at the top with one person and then follows all branches downwards, and when you go back a generation you also find the siblings and again follow all branches downwards. Rather than the sort of tree that starts with one name at the bottom (yours) and goes back to parents, grandparents, grt grandparents etc.
The former style of tree needs to concentrate on one surname, otherwise it would be totally unmanageable, and thus only follows the male line, girls once married are not followed up.
I dont see this as a problem. This is what I have done for many years on my Edmonds's. I recognise the girls are just as important genetically. I recognise that their offspring/ancsetors are just as important and could bring forth all sorts of gems. But following their lines will be a different exercise that I will attempt in the future, and will produce a different tree. Not better, nor inferior, just different.
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From "Blood Royal"~ Iain Moncrieffe & Don Pottinger :~ Nelson &Sons 1956
"All the hundred Peers of England and all the eighty five Peers of Scotland are descended from the Queens English or Scottish ancestors, the Plantagenet or Stuart Kings. Most can also trace their Royal Blood in the female line
Younger branches of all these families merge imperceptibly with the nation. With the passage of centuries, the WHOLE population is ultimately related to the Blood Royal.. and thus to the Sovereign"
Considering the exponential nature of the number of ancestors per generation, and that it only takes a single connection to add all that connection's ancestors to one's own, I'd say it was a fair bet that that would eventually become obvious... IF DOCUMENTS HAD BEEN CREATED/PRESERVED!!
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Often following the male line is just a way of 'containing' the tree, so it doesnt get out of control. i'm talking the sort of tree that stats at the top with one person and then follows all branches downwards, and when you go back a generation you also find the siblings and again follow all branches downwards. Rather than the sort of tree that starts with one name at the bottom (yours) and goes back to parents, grandparents, grt grandparents etc.
The former style of tree needs to concentrate on one surname, otherwise it would be totally unmanageable, and thus only follows the male line, girls once married are not followed up.
I dont see this as a problem. This is what I have done for many years on my Edmonds's. I recognise the girls are just as important genetically. I recognise that their offspring/ancsetors are just as important and could bring forth all sorts of gems. But following their lines will be a different exercise that I will attempt in the future, and will produce a different tree. Not better, nor inferior, just different.
I did both types simultaneously.... All the descendents of my earliest Paternal ancestor.. (in effect, an ONS) plus an inclusive search for ancestors.
It's not unmanageable with good software actually. I am blessed with a pretty good memory as well which is a definite bonus
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Edward I only makes it on mine as 23x gt granduncle as I am descended from Edmund Crouchback
I've got Edmund as well. He is my 23xgreat grandfather.
:) Howdy Cousin! :D
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No gateway ancestors yet - I wouldn't mind just one ::), after all there would still be loads of other lines to follow back. The problem I have is that before 1841, the only info that is readily available without travelling the country, is IGI. This, though wonderful in places, is not always accurate, and does not have everyone on. I worry about using this to go back further than about 1750, as the records before that seem patchy, and I feel that if I find someone with the right name, how do I know it's the correct person??
Quite often you have to guess which person is your ancestor especially if families use the same few Christian names down the generations. On WDYTYA, the researcher always seems to say 'so and so' married 'so and so' with such confidence. With my Coultons, most of the men were William, Joseph, John, George and Benjamin, and they all married Mary, Elizabeth, Ann or Hannah and of course they called their children these names as well!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH ;D
Having said that (I'm jealous really) I have really enjoyed this series, and can't wait for the next one.
Helen
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Edward I only makes it on mine as 23x gt granduncle as I am descended from Edmund Crouchback
I've got Edmund as well. He is my 23xgreat grandfather.
:) Howdy Cousin! :D
;D
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I loved the whole series as I always do. I've been researching my tree for the past 25 years and I haven't found a gateway ancestor. But am I bovvered? Definately not! I'm proud of my honest hard-working country folk.
I did a tree for a friend a couple months back and proved he was descended from the 1st Chief of Clan Galbraith and thus to the royal blood of the Kingdom of Strathclyde -and also related to a sheep stealer from Northumberland who was transported to Australia!
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I did a tree for a friend a couple months back and proved he was descended from the 1st Chief of Clan Galbraith and thus to the royal blood of the Kingdom of Strathclyde -and also related to a sheep stealer from Northumberland who was transported to Australia!
... and I wonder which of these two lines had the most rogues?
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lol....I have decided that my gateway ancestor was probably holding it open for the rest of you.
Tricia
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It was good. I have two gatewa ancestors
For me the best was Alistair McGowan
Bob
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I enjoyed it too, but my favourite was also Alistair McGowan. The best part of that programme, for me, was when Alistair was meeting up with all the other McGowan's in India.....great!
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I eventually got to watch the programme last night.
My husband wanted me to record it and watch it with him(!), as he was out last Thursday. Then there was Rugby and more Rugby, so last night I decided we could watch the programme and - you've guessed - OH fell asleep and missed most of it.
Liz
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Ooooer I've got one like that! He asked me to record them all and he hasn't watched one all the way through yet !! :o :o You can guarantee if I erase them ...he'll ask to watch them though !! :-\ ::)
Poll ;D
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I've erased it!!
Liz
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Ooooer I've got one like that! He asked me to record them all and he hasn't watched one all the way through yet !! :o :o You can guarantee if I erase them ...he'll ask to watch them though !! :-\ ::)
Poll ;D
Make him buy you the box set lol
Willow x
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Make him ????
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Is there a boxed set? I live abroad and have to rely on my Dad remembering to record episodes for me.
Sami
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ooh I don't know ...Wllow seems to think so ... ::).
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I know the other series have been released on DVD - think I saw them advertise a box set - but cant remember where :-\
Willow x
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series 1 & 2 are on Amazon.co.uk
Don't know if the later series have been released :-\
jc
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Have a look online at bbc, I think www.bbc.co.uk
Jane
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Of course it is easier to follow the male lines, because the surname remains the same. But for the 19th century, I seem to have done better with some of my female lines. When I started I had better info on the female lines than the male lines.
I've had a LOT more luck on the female side than any of the male sides, since a fair few of my ancestors were illegitimate Ag Labs (must be the country air!)
I've still not found a Gateway Ancestor for my tree, but helping a friend who thought that her tree would be tricky almost immediately led to a gateway ancestor who led back to Edward II and thus, using the same logic as that ancient scroll-maker, she too can claim direct descent from God. Last time I argue with her..... :o
Glen
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I wonder if Matthew will now trace his fathers line back ? I think we only had the bits in his line about the boys who were killed in WW1 ?
Gateway ancestor ... now that's what I need ! All my house-maids, ag. lab's and miners ... how could they have got near to a royal blood line with sweat on their brow and dirt under their nails ?!
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Lydart, I don't know about the miners, but the house maids were just the ones to get close to the royals.... ;D
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Lydart, I don't know about the miners, but the house maids were just the ones to get close to the royals.... ;D
LMAO
Just think of the brick walls your saving yourself Lydart trying to prove the connection
Willow x
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My house-maids were not anywhere near Royal houses .... just large country estates in deepest Dorset. My maternal grandmother's one claim to fame is that she once served tea to the future Edward VIII when she was housekeeper at Lords Cricket Ground .. said he was a bit of a philanderer !
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LMAO - Paula was right then! the housemaids didnt stand a chance
Glad your grandmother had more sense
Willow x
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Gateway ancestor ... now that's what I need ! All my house-maids, ag. lab's and miners ... how could they have got near to a royal blood line with sweat on their brow and dirt under their nails ?!
My gateway ancestor married a fisherman.
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Just a quick query.
We are now all using the term as if its something that has always been known, but how many of us here had heard the term "Gateway Ancestor" before this show?
I for one hadn't come across it yet, so I wonder if I had just missed something fundamental, or if this isn't necessarily a normal term in genealogical circles, such as this one, however useful it is?
Glen
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I hadn't heard of it either, so I Googled it, and found it used a lot in American genealogy research.
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Nope it was a new one on me too
Willow x
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Hello, it's Matt here. This is my first toe in the water of this forum so be kind!
The last week has been a deluge of interest from WDYTYA to home, work and website with so much extra information on my family. during the filming of the episode it really took me from disinterested to fascinated in two short weeks and I now have a hunger to know more. in the process of following some of the leads I stumbled across the Rootschat forum and what's more a thread in my honour!
i found the episode good to watch - i was out the night it went out so had to catch up 24 hours later - and found myself thinking oh they cut that bit and where did that go? but all in all a well edited reflection of the fortnight schedule. As many people have commented I genuinely had no idea when they rolled out the last parchment as to where it was going.
I don't promise to be on here every day but happy to find a group of people who enjoyed the show.
Matt
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Welcome to Rootschat Matt
I am sure you will get a great deal of help here for any queries you have. Everyone is very friendly here and some are extremely knowledgable about the most obscure subjects.
And congratulations on the direct decendancy from the Almighty himself !! ;D
Glen
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Welcome from me also Matt, hope you enjoy Roots as much as we all do.
Have fun
Jane ;D
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Welcome Matt
Glad to see you got the bug too - just yell when you need any help we'll do the best we can
And as your descended from God when you get five minutes could you ask him who fathered my Nanny Roberts please?
Willow x
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Hi Matt
Welcome to Rootschat, I'm sure if you have any questions about the rest of your roots the people on here will be able to help........
Nutty, do you need a tissue for the drool?? ;) ;D ;D ;D
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God says one thing at a time - he's still checking his calculations on early kings of England. Edward I he doesnt mind too much but he has a real problem with Henry VIII. Shifting sides all the time apparently.
More seriously I have now discovered a whole arm of Pinsents in Canada. Indeed there are towns named Pinsent in Newfoundland. Is it most likely they emigrated one way across the Atlantic? or equally possible there was a too and fro? The Pinsent records run out in Devonport so some maritime link might seem logical. Is there an obvious way to check - are passenger manifests available and how far back do they go?
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Welcome to RootsChat Matt. We are a crazy but dedicated bunch on here, always ready to help others, and give opinions !
I believe I suggested earlier that it would have been nice to follow your father line back ? Are you going to consider that maybe ?
And don't take the God thing too seriously ... we are all descendants of God in one way or another !
There's a whole set of boards on here for Canada questions ... and LOTS of helpful people there too !
(who fathered my Nanny Roberts
I like it Willow ... maybe he can find out where my great grandparents died and when !)[/size]
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Welcome to Rootschat, Matt. What everyone says in previous posts is true.!
I'm sure you'll find some very friendly and helpful folk on the emigrants to Canada board who will help you along.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,166.0.html
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I thought this was the best programme of the series.
I had seen a programme previously about gateway ancestors, this explained it all so well.
Welcome aboard Matt, you will be hooked for life now.
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Is it most likely they emigrated one way across the Atlantic? or equally possible there was a too and fro?
In answer to your question, yes there probably was quite a large amount of tooing and froing (that phrase just doesn't look right!?) between the colonies and the home country even relatively far back in the past. What sort of era are you looking at?
Some of the outer edges of the empire would have been visited by trade ships and mail ships on a fairly regular basis, so people would have had the opportunity, provided they had the cash or were willing to work their passage, to travel back and forth.
Unfortunately, this would mean that records were less than accurate if they were kept at all.
Glen
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Just a quick query.
We are now all using the term as if its something that has always been known, but how many of us here had heard the term "Gateway Ancestor" before this show?
I for one hadn't come across it yet, so I wonder if I had just missed something fundamental, or if this isn't necessarily a normal term in genealogical circles, such as this one, however useful it is?
Glen
It was first coined by Major Francis Jones
Cheers
Guy
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I'd heard the term Gateway Ancestor before on a TV programme hosted by Anthony Adolph I think.
Nice to see someone with such an impressive pedigree not too grand to visit a forum. Well done that man! :)
Thought the story about your relative who committed suicide incredibly sad. What a terrible thing war is. What it does to people. :'(
Cheers, PP
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Just seen the show (kindly recorded by dad as I was rellie-hunting in London) and thoroughly enjoyed it.
I found the WW1 items very moving; all the soldiers I've found in my line came home, although some were badly injured. Such a waste of young lives.
Welcome to Rootschat Matt!
Nanny Jan
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Just a quick query.
We are now all using the term as if its something that has always been known, but how many of us here had heard the term "Gateway Ancestor" before this show?
I for one hadn't come across it yet, so I wonder if I had just missed something fundamental, or if this isn't necessarily a normal term in genealogical circles, such as this one, however useful it is?
Glen
It was first coined by Major Francis Jones
Cheers
Guy
Who coincidentally was the source of the information that gave me the proof that I had a Gateway Ancestor ..
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Welcome to Rootschat Matt ;D
I had never heard of a gateway ancestor either.
You'll have realised by now what big fans we are of WDYTYA, you're quite a celebrity ;D
I have to admit though, I'm not a big sports fan, so I had to ask my OH who you were :-X
It just shows by you joining Rootschat how addicted you have become, like us all.
Rosemary
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Welcome to RootsChat. Matthew.
What an exellant show. All the Folks on here are great people and will do anything to help, all you have to do is ask
Thanx again for a wonderful finale to the season
Lynn H.
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I think the programme I saw it in was one Bill Oddie presented called My Famous Family??
It was on satellite telly.
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Hi Geniedi,
Yes, I think you're right! Bill Oddie presented the programme but I think they wheeled Anthony Adolph on to talk about Gateway Ancestors as the shows in-house expert.
http://uktv.co.uk/press/?uktv=features.item&aid=557140
Cheers, PP
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Welcome "Cousin Matt"! ;)
Glad to see another recruit to this fascinating pastime. Despite your "gold card" gateway ancestor introduction, I'm sure you have many other lines you can research for yourself over the years. You'll never be bored again!
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Welcome Matthew to the best forum online... and thanks for joining us ...
Your face was an absolute treat when you were shown those pedigree scrolls and your incredulity was a joy to witness...What on earth must have been spinning through your mind at that moment ? The depth of Knowledge on this site is just amazing and the generosity of folk on here is second to none .. It's great fun on here ...and not half as tiring as rowing ! ;)
Poll
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I'd never heard of this term before either. I had to google both "gateway ancestor" and "Matthew Pinsett" ;).
Does a "gateway ancestor" always lead back to royalty .... or is it just that there are more surviving records of the royal and well-to-do? Is a gateway ancestor the missing link which enables you to connect your family and your research to someone elses research?
I'm very envious of you all - no WDYTYA here in Australia :'(.
Oh, and welcome to rootschat Matt and good luck with your research.
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As I understand it, they are a person that links you to an established pedigree..
in Matts case Sophia Anson (not, in my opinion, her father as stated in the program).. Its that Anson name that immediately caused Lord Lichfield and Shugborough Hall to spring my mind when I heard it, before Sir George Anson was even mentioned
Daughters of wealthy or famous men often go unnoticed as a promising ancestor, because of their name change, they provide a gateway to a whole new genetic line
eg "John Smith and his wife Mary" is not very inspiring
but "John Smith and his wife Mary, the daughter of Sir Giles de Berkeley" is a whole new ball-game
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Thanks for clarifying that for me ludovica.
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I had never heard of it before either. I just assumed it was a well known term that, due to my newcommer status, I simply hadn't encountered.
It's quite nice having a gateway ancestor. Being Scottish, I can boast of being a descendant of Kenneth MacAlpin and Robert the Bruce. At the same time I descend from Edward I and Alfred the Great, and am a great whatever nephew of Sir John Menteith, the man who betrayed Wallace.
This ancestry allows me to define myself as a definate Briton.
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I think many of us have 'Gateway ancestors' but we don't say much about it.
Gadget
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I think many of us have 'Gateway ancestors' but we don't say much about it.
Gadget
Good for you lot then.
For I intend to go one and on and on...
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It's great when you make one or two or more links but that's not the object of it all is it?
I'm here to help and enjoy.
Gadget
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It is always odd how people try to say that their 'own' family is more important than any Royal link. Indeed, I have been guilty of it in the past.
However, is it not the case that these people are still my ancestors and therefore should be searched? Indeed, if I were able to trace any of my other lines back as far, I would.
Making more links is the object of it all, because with each link I continue to trace more of my ancestors. Then again, this idea has been criticised by many before.
I'm not a humble man, as you may have guessed. ;)
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I don't think it is the links that are 'the object of it all'. The lines are just bare branches which we can explore in a more qualitative way by investigating our social and family histories.
And I'm certainly not a humble woman 8)
Gadget
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Great end to the series, thought Matts reaction was so funny when the scroll leading back to God was produced!
Welcome to Rootschat Matt, best forum on the WWW, hope we can all be of help to you breaking down those brickwalls you'll inevitably come across like all of us do at some point, on your other branches.
Wonder when the next series starts, withdrawal symptoms already ::) :)
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A warm welcome to Rootschat, Matt - you'll find people here eager to help with any questions and with a huge range of knowledge and experience. What links us all is sheer enthusiasm and goodwill.
The Canadian link sounds interesting, though I'm no expert on Canadian records. Don't discount, however, the possibility (depending on dates) that the immigrants' first port of call in the New World was New England - there are lots of instances of the name "Pinson" (which I believe is a variant) in early New England records. A good site for such records is www.newenglandancestors.org - and of course we have an Emigrants to the United States board here too.
Another thought is that with Pinsent being, I believe, a French name originally, it's possible with Canada's high Francophone population that some Canadian Pinsents came straight from France, rather than being descended from the Devon Pinsents(?)
Lots of mysteries and possibilities - I hope you'll continue to enjoy the journey and check in here often
Anna :)
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I don't think it is the links that are 'the object of it all'. The lines are just bare branches which we can explore in a more qualitative way by investigating our social and family histories.
Well yes. I continue with that aspect of things as well. I'm back in term at University so I have to spend as little money as possible on the family tree until May/June.
There are some decent sites out there which allow one to research the pedigree of the Nobility for free. You have to be careful, ofcourse.
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I did mine for free as well. I had a lead from a super Rootschatter and then investigated and then bought my Welsh Pedigree books which get me back to Brutus or someone ::) ::) ::)
I'm descended from the sister of Owain Glyndwr. This links me in to the Tudors and various Welsh/Manx and Irish medieval nobility. Also the Puleston line links to De Montfort, etc.
The book was expensive but I'm not complaining, my main income comes from Royalties ;D ;D ;D
Gadget
Added - but this is Matt's thread so I don't think we should be discussing our trees :)
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Added - but this is Matt's thread so I don't think we should be discussing our trees :)
Indeed. Sorry.
Even though I could argue that the thread turned in to the 'Gateway Ancestor' thread quite early on.
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I should think that it is only when following the female side that you can be 100% that you have the correct ancestors. What is that saying - "It is a wise man that knows his own father." How many of our male ancestors have brought up another man's baby without knowing?
Just a thought!
Another one I've heard is "mother's baby, father's maybe"
Modem
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I was watching "Frasier" earlier, and noticed that the Dad was played by a Gordon Pinsent...
Another relative perhaps ?
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Gordon Pinsent played Benton Frazer's dad in Due South.
Benton was played by the gorgeous Paul Gross.
A great programme.
Betty
I was watching "Frasier" earlier, and noticed that the Dad was played by a Gordon Pinsent...
Another relative perhaps ?
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OK my mistake.. I obviously wasn't paying attention! :-[ :D
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Benton was played by the gorgeous Paul Gross
Betty
I'll second the gorgeous bit!!!
Wonder if he has British ancestry? Wouldn't mind seeing more of him on the telly!!!
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;D
I haven't seen him in anything since Due South, such a pity :(
Betty
Benton was played by the gorgeous Paul Gross
Betty
I'll second the gorgeous bit!!!
Wonder if he has British ancestry? Wouldn't mind seeing more of him on the telly!!!
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Back to the subject matter!!! I heard a programme on Radio 4 not long ago with Edward Stourton, the Today presenter, being told about his ancestors, the Howards. At least, that's who I think it was!! :-\ In which case, he will also be related to Matt Pinsett, and so on to God!
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I've only just watched the programme on the bbci player this pm (really enjoyed it) ......thought I would log in and see what everyone else thought of it...............my first thought was wow what a long thread!
In the programme I loved the way Matthew started by saying he previously had no knowledge or interest in his family tree and at the end he was completely the opposite! Finding Matt posting here shows he has "the bug" in the same way as the rest of us here! ;D
Matt - welcome to RC - as everyone else has said the best place to be on the web! Post any questions and let us all help you with future research!
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For more on Paul Gross
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0343472/
meles
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Welcome Matthew,
Thank you for the best programme to date! Great to have you on board. You will enjoy it as much as we all do.
It is totally addictive this FH, so be warned and enjoy every minute of it!
Rabbit B ;)
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Repeat!!!! WDYTYA 12:55am. Tonight. Alistair McGowen.
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Yes I echo the welcome Matthew
I used to see you training on the Thames at Henley and am glad that you have found a warmer hobby for the winter months ;D
It was a great programme and I wish you good luck in your future research and as everyone says "Do Ask" someone is bound to know the answer on this board
Jackie
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,166.0.html
for Canadian ancestors/relatives ...
they are VERY helpful on the Canada boards !