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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Cheshire => England => Cheshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: esterby on Wednesday 17 October 07 20:31 BST (UK)
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Hello readers,
I wonder if anyone can assist me in tracing any background details to George Astbury born in Tarvin around 1834.
From the 1881 census a George Astbury born 1857 in Tarvin was married to a Harriett born 1857 in Ashton. This George (1857)was a grandson in the 1861 census with his father George (1834). This showed George (1834) to have a father William Astbury born 1811 in Tarvin and mother Jane born 1811 in New Tarvin. Another census has her birth in 1816 and also born in Newchurch. Unfortunately I do not know her maiden name.
According to the 1851 census George (1837) was a servant on a farm in Kelsall. It would appear he fathered George (1857) before the 1861 census where he appears with his son George and parents William and Jane. The question I have is did he marry the mother and who was she?
I cannot find him later and thus believe he died before 1871.
I hope the reader can follow my queries and suggest lines of investigation or any answers.
Thanks
Esterby
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Hi
There is this marriage which is a possibility.
From IGI
William Astbury
Jane Dutton
1833-Over.. Cheshire
The reason for the birth year being different on the 1841 cencus is that ages were rounded _/+ 5yrs
Jane
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Hi Esterby
There is a baptism on BIVRI 2nd edition
Tarvin - 16 Aug 1835
George son of William & Jane Astbury
In the 1871 census there is a George Astbury aged 35 years living in Tarvin with wife Sarah & children named Jane, Mary, Thomas & William. He is an ag lab.
There is a George Astbury b 1857 Bunbury working as a general farm servant.
George Astbury & Sarah are in 1881 census at Delamere & widower George is there in 1891 with 2 of his daughters.
There is a death of a George Astbury in Q2 1898 Northwich district aged 62 ie born abt 1836. Could this be him?
The only way to find out who George 1857's mother was in the absence of a baptism record is to order his birth certificate.
A George Astbury married Sarah Goulbourne in Q4 1860 at Chester St Oswalds.
The Cheshire Record office will send you photocopies of Parish Registers for £1 per copy & you can order on line www.cheshire.gov.uk/recoff/home
Regards
SandraC
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Jane and SandraC,
Thanks for your work and suggestions.
It appears that parish registers and birth certificates will enable me to follow the line back from George and Harriett.
My searches so far have Tarvin Astbury's being in Kelsall and I kow that they were also in Ashton and Mouldsworth. No doubt these are related to my presumed line of William and Jane born 1811 in Tarvin.
Does anyone know if New Tarvin and Newchurch are the same place and basically Tarvin as we know today.
Thanks all who have read and replied to my problem.
Esterby
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Jane and Sandra and other readers,
Following your comments I have a marriage certificate for George Astbury aged 22 and Harriet Hignett aged 25 who married on 24 Decamber 1877. Strangely I find Georges father was William Astbury.
The first birth certificate for George born in Tarvin 1857 shows a father as Joseph. Presently I am obtaining one for George born 1857 in the Weaverham District.
If anyone can help my search I would be grateful.
Esterby
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Jane SandraC and other readers.
Further to my last message. The George Astbury born 1855 in the Weaverham District does not have a father William as on his marriage certificate. I am almost at a loss but could try a George born 1851 in the Tattenhall District. His age is well beyond that suggested by the marriage certificate.
Does anyone have any other knowledge?
My surmises from the census have not been proven by the marriage certificate. Is there a Tarvin Parish Register that is searchable on line?
Any help would be gratefully received.
Esterby
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Hi Esterby
Time to go back to first principles here I think.
Is the George Astbury that marries Harriet Hignett the correct person, working backwards?
This would then cement William as the father.
The Tarvin records on BIVRI have a big gap between 1846 & the 1880s :(
There is a birth registration in the Great Boughton district in Q1 1856 for a George Astbury & there is a baptism in March 1857 at Hargrave to William & Mary Astbury. These may or may not be the same George.
What is the occupation of William on the marriage - can we find them on the census & try to work back with siblings who may have baptisms on the available records?
Good luck
SandraC
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Hi Esterby,
Can you post the full details from the marriage certificate and the two birth certificates that you have in your possession? Maybe that will help us to eliminate some possibilities...
Jean
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Hi Jean and other readers,
The marriage certificate is dated 24 December 1877 between George Astbury aged 22 Bachelor, Laborer, living at Tarvin, father William Astbury Laborer, and Harriett Hignett aged 25 a spinster ,no profession, living at Ashton, father James Hignett a Shoemaker.
They were married by banns at the church of Kelsall in the parish of Tarvin by John Dalton.
Witnesses were James Hignett and Elizabeth Birchwood.
From the dates I tried for George born1856 reference CAS/21/11 Chester Castle/ Cheshire West. No certificate since father was not William. Next I tried George 1855 reference Cheshire BMD WV/07/083 Weaverham/Cheshire Central. Again father not William.
Presently I am trying George born 1851 reference TAT/4/84 Tattenhall/Cheshire West. This is variously called as Gt Boughton in some records. I have 3 other Georges in 1846-1850 and 1858 but the dates are further away and the births except for CAS/13/70.
I have looked for possible William Astbury marriages but nothing clear shows up for Tarvin.
George Astbury full aged married Sarah Goulbourne full age 18 October 1860 son of William Astbury laborer and Thomas Goulbourne laborer. I believe this is George born 1837 and possible uncle? to the George (grandson) aged 4 in the 1861 census. Are William and Jane Astbury his parents and not grandparents? Could George 1837 be the father or his brother William B1843 or were either of the 3 sisters the mother and grandson is an alternative to stepson as commonly used?
Plenty to chew on and I await the birth certificate.
Any other suggestions are welcome.
Esterby
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Hi esterby,
I've been tracking this family back. 1861 (RG9 2628/93 Page 29, 11 Tarvin Common):
William ASTBURY, Head, Mar, 50?, Ag Lab born Cheshire Tarvin
Jane ASTBURY, Wife, Mar, 50, born Cheshire Newchurch
George ASTBURY, Son, Unm, 27, Ag Lab born Cheshire Tarvin
William ASTBURY, Son, Mar, 18, Ag Lab born Cheshire Tarvin
Job ASTBURY, Son, 12, Scholar born Cheshire Tarvin
Joseph ASTBURY, Son, 8, Scholar born Cheshire Tarvin
George ASTBURY, gr son, 4, Scholar born Cheshire Tarvin
I don't see that any of the other children at home are likely candidates for parent(s) of George. (4) William is only 18, and although married, would only have been 14 when George was born. And George (27) isn't married so George (4) wouldn't have his surname.
Isn't it more likely that George put William (grandfather) down as father on his marriage certificate because he may have been illegitimate and had been brought up by his grandparents?
Jean
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1851, HO107 2171/377 Page 36, Tarvin:
William ASTBURY, Head, Mar, 40, Labourer born Cheshire Tarvin
Jane ASTBURY, Wife, Mar, 40 born Cheshire New Church
Mary ASTBURY, Dau, 11 born Tarvin
William ASTBURY, Son, 8, Scholar born Tarvin
Eliza ASTBURY, Dau, 6, Scholar born Tarvin
Emma ASTBURY, Dau, 6, Scholar born Tarvin
Job ASTBURY, Son, 1 born Tarvin
John ASTBURY, Son, 1 month born Tarvin
Jean
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1841, HO107 98/10/23 Page 41, Tarvin Common:
William ASTBURY, 30, Ag Lab, Y
Jane ASTBURY, 25, Y
Thomas ASTBURY, 8, Y
Hannah ASTBURY, 6, Y
George ASTBURY, 4, Y
John ASTBURY, 3, Y
Mary ASTBURY, 1, Y
So between the 1841 and 1851 census's there are a few possibles for mother of George - Hannah, Mary or even Eliza & Emma at a push. I think that the William on the marriage certificate of George and Harriett is not his father and it is likely that one of the certificates you have already looked at is the right one.
Jean
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Hi Esterby
Jean has a very good point here - I have a couple of these grandfather in lieu names on marriage certificates.
It might be difficult to prove unless you can go through the Tarvin baptisms for the missing period & see if there are any George's born to unmarried Miss Astbury.
Regards
SandraC
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Hi Jean, SandraC and others,
It is a minefield!! Perhaps I should have obtained the other birth certificates if only to be able to discard them from my searches. Like you I had looked at ages and thought well it could be possible!
Watch this space and I will let you know if the Tattenhall/Gt Boughton for 1851 give the correct information.
Happy Christmas everyone.
Esterby
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Hi all searchers and helpers,
Cheshire County Registrars have given a speedy responce despite the festive season. The birth certificate for the latest George Astbury referred to as born 1851 has arrived and with it more problems.
This George was born 22 December 1850 at Hargreave. His father was William Astbury and mother Mary Astbury nee Dutton. Fathers occupation is given as labourer. The registration district is Great Boughton and sub district Tattenhall.
Whilst Hargr(e)ave is not far from Tarvin the age is doubtful if married 24 December 1877 when aged 22. This should mean a birth year of 1855. This George is aged 27 years (and 2 days!!). The marriage certificate is a photocopy and 1877 is very clear in 2 places.
It would seem that more guessing from the census with interpretation of father/grandfather/known as names plus unknown father/mother is required.
Esterby
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Hallo all readers,
The saga continues. I now have another birth certificate.
The most likely George Astbury born around 1855 was born 2 November 1885 in Kelsall. His father is listed as Joseph Astbury a journeyman sawyer and his mother as Ann Astbury formerly Lloyd and living at Kelsall when George was born.
The marriage certificate says his father was William.
If anyone has knowledge of alternative first names or possible errors in dates I would like to know.
Esterby