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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: simonwpb on Monday 15 October 07 04:15 BST (UK)
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I cannot find my Rayner family in the 1901 Census. Can anyone help?
They were in Warrington in 1891. Circa 1918 they may have lived in Blackburn.
From prior Censuses:
In 1881 William “Raynor” the tailor from Great Budworth is married to “Elisa” with his 2-week old daughter Amy. He gave his age as 27, while Eliza was 28. (Other records suggest he was only 23). They lived at #25 Lloyd Street, Warrington. Perhaps he wanted to appear older because Eliza was 6 years older than he was?
In the 1891 Census, William Rayner lived at 10 Catherine Street, Warrington with his 2nd wife wife Hannah, 3 children and brother. Eliza died in 1887, and Bill re-married Hannah perhaps 4 years later?Bill had an older sister called Amy. There was 7 years between the birth of Bill and his 1/2 brother Bertie in 1891.
Cannot find William and Hannah RAYNER (RAYNOR, RAINER?) in 1901...
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Hi simonwpb
In 1891, Bertie was named as his son aged 2 months.
His other children in that Census were: Amy age 9, William age 7 - all b Warrington.
His brother was named as John age 28 (to William's 33)
His wife Hannah was 30 (?) born Wednesbury Staffs.
Do you have any idea what Hannah's maiden name was (or any prior married name) was?
Cheers
AMBLY
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Hello Ambly... thanks for the assist,
My GGP's were William Rayner and Eliza Grant (who died in childbirth in 1887). My GF was William born 1884.
Sorry I do not have Hannah's maiden name. I could not find a marriage record for William and Hannah in the BD either.
I have searched for Bertie (Albert?) and Amy as well. Could the 1901 census have missed them?
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Hi again
Still pondering the Census question - however I might be able to solve the marriage one!
Eliza died Jun Qtr 1887 age 35.
In the Qtr following of the same year, is a marriage:
Sep Qtr 1887 Warrington . Vol 8c, page 198
There are only following 3 people showing on FreeBMD - one of the brides is missing.....
BAILEY Sarah Jane
BANCROFT Walter
RAYNER William
The 1891 Census shows married couple Walter and Sarah J BANCROFT living in Warrington, eldest child age 3.
So this leaves William RAYNER.
FREEBMD also has the following solitary entry for a marriage Sep Qtr 1887 Warrington:
PASS Hannah Vol 8c, page: 1[39]8
This infers the transcriber was unable to clearly identify the page number.
On viewing the image, I believe ithe page is clearly 198 - ie: the woman William RAYNER married. But becasue their page numbers are different in the FreeBMD transcriptions, they do not show up in the same page of results.
So -- he married Hannah PASS shortly after his wife died? Such a 'hasty' remarriage was not uncommon, especially if a man had been left with very young, or many children to support!
Cheers
AMBLY
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I realise it was Eliza who was your line - but this looks like Hannah in 1881, which further suggests the above is probably correct:
1881: Warrington, Lancashire
Ref: RG11 / Piece 3794 / Folio: 97 / Pg 45
Address: 5(?) Liverpool Road
Servant: Hannah PASS 19, unm, b Wednesbury, Staffordshire
In Employ of William D JEANS & family, age 46, Solicitor
Cheers
AMBLY
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Thanks AMBLY,
Your detective work has at least discovered Hannah's maiden name!
Elizabeth Ann Grant before she married was also a domestic servant previously in the employ of a wealthy landowner.
My theory was that William Rayner the tailor perhaps met his spouse(s) through his clients?
Strange how none of the family shows in 1901 though. (You won't find William the son because he had enlisted)
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Hi Simonwpb, we think we can help with this one. My husband's great-grandfather, William Smith, lived in Blackburn, but a family ''mystery'' surrounded him. It was rumoured that he was aka Rayner and was possibly born in Comberbach. His wife was Helen Bishop (nee Collow), born in Tamworth in 1864. Their daughter Nellie May (my husband's grandmother) was a tailor! We'll do some research on the 1901 and 1911 censuses and come back to you! The plot thickens!!
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Hello,
Yes definitely a match. Since I posted this my research went as far as Nellie May marrying John Fitton, and a daughter Marjorie, although it has been awhile. I never did solve the mystery of why Rayner was changed to Smith but the imagination comes up with some speculation! My great-grandfather was married 3 times, his first two wives died at a young age.
Simon
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Hi Simon,
So it looks like William was your and my husband John's great-grandfather! Which of William's children are you descended from?
We found the family on the 1901 and 1911 censuses under the name of Smith. In 1901, Amy and William were with them but not in the 1911 census. With wife Helen, he had Nellie, Walter, Lilian, Ethel and Maggie. Nellie married Jack Fitton, as you point out, and they had Marjorie and John (aka Jack), who are John's mum and uncle respectively, both long departed.
We didn't know that Hannah had also died young. What happened to Bertie?
We wondered if William and Helen were actually married or were they ''on the run'' from something? It seems strange that they moved around so much and also changed their name to the most common name in the country (to avoid detection). Also, on each census, their places of birth seem to change. An added mystery is that Margaret, the youngest daughter, lived at home and had 2 sons. No one knew who their father was. If only we could turn back the clock and investigate issues like we can today!
Please keep us updated with any new finds!
Ann and John
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I will try and research Elizas death - but - William married Hannah in 1887 - the year you say Eliza died
Marriage: 4 Sep 1887 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire, England
William Rayner - 30, Tailor, Widower, 7 Porter St.
Hannah Pass - 25, Spinster, St. James St. Latchford
Groom's Father: Thomas Rayner, Tailor
Bride's Father: William Pass, Joiner
Witness: John Hewitt; Margaret Hewitt
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well - I can't find a death for Eliza - Elizabeth Rayner in Warrington 1880-1890
could you post your details on Elizas death please ??
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Ann and John,
My GF was William Smith b. 1884 son of William
I lost track of Bertie after the 1911 census
I have the death cert for Eliza
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Here are my notes from some years ago:
William was the oldest child of Thomas and Betsey Rayner. His parents baptized two Williams, one in 1857 and again in 1859. This may indicate that a first child died as an infant.
In 1871, William was already working as a tailor with his father at age 13 in their home in Great Budworth.
He married Eliza Ann Grant on 26th April 1880 at St. Mary’s church in Beswick, Lancashire, Prestwich district. Beswick being just north of Gorton on the east side of Manchester. (Historically Manchester was divided into 2 large registration districts, Chorlton and Prestwich hence the confusion now with the current area of Prestwich). The witnesses to the marriage were his wife’s sister and her husband who were also her neighbors. Eliza and her sister were from Staffordshire.
In 1881 William “Raynor” the tailor from Budworth is married to “Elisa” with his 2-week old daughter Amy. He gave his age as 27, while Eliza was 28. (Other records suggest he was only 23). They lived at #25 Lloyd Street, Warrington. Perhaps he wanted to appear older because Eliza was 6 years older than he was?
His son Bill’s birth certificate in 1884 shows his mother to be “Eliza Rayner formerly Grant.” Eliza died during child-birth in 1887, and Bill married Hannah Pass only a few months later. They were married at St Elphin church. With two young children to be cared for at home, it was not uncommon for a widower to marry again quickly. Hannah was a domestic servant who used to work in the household of a solicitor. It is possible that William met both his spouses while they were employed by his clients.
In the 1891 Census, William Rayner lived at 10 Catherine Street, Warrington with his 2nd wife wife Hannah, 3 children and his brother was also present that day. Young seven year old Bill had an older sister called Amy. There was 7 years between the birth of Bill and his new-born half-brother Bertie in 1891.
William’s younger brother John Rayner was also a tailor who was living with his brother that year. Hannah was from Staffordshire, and many of their neighbors on Catherine Street were also originally from Staffordshire. They were labourers, forgemen, puddlers, or grocers and other trades. Perhaps they moved north to Warrington because of poor economic opportunities in the Midlands at the time.
Something happened in the early 1890’s to cause William Rayner to move to Stafforshire, and for the family to change their last name to Smith. He continued to work as a tailor. Hannah died September 16th, 1872 in Pleck, Walsall at the age of 31. His third wife was Helen Callow, who was perhaps a widow. Helen was also a “tailoress”.
Note, poor Hannah died on today’s date, rest her soul