RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Lynn H on Sunday 14 October 07 19:38 BST (UK)
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Headlines in my Evening paper yesterday.
200 Bodies to be moved. Cemetery to be dug up for orbital road.
I was gobsmacked when i saw this. How can people play god. Do the words that are spoken
"REST IN PEACE" not mean anything any more?
Lynn H.
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Appalling :o :o :o
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I was told by a priest not so long ago that bodies aren't allowed to be moved once they are buried. How have they got around that then?
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I was gobsmacked when i saw this. How can people play god. Do the words that are spoken
"REST IN PEACE" not mean anything any more?]
Dont think it does anymore, Lynn, very sad
Jo
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Where is this at?
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Where is this at?
I wonder if this could be what Lynn was referring to .. ..
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0223/
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Hi Pels.
Yes, that is the one that i am refering to. Terrible don't you think.
Lynn H.
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Pels.,
From that site:
"The council has not found any living relatives of those buried there"
Wonder how hard they tried, surely someone here could help!
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Pels.,
From that site:
"The council has not found any living relatives of those buried there"
Wonder how hard they tried, surely someone here could help!
snap ;D
was just going to post that!
lets get the list of names and start searching.
can't they build a bridge over the cemetery?
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It is a terrible thing to do, nothing is sacred anymore, if the almighty council decides it wants a road there and they'll buy your house too as it's in the way who's going to stop them?
Does anyone get the impression from reading it that they saw digging up the cemetary as a way to get hold of the properties with compulsory purchase and as such was the backdoor getting the cp order?
I do like the comment on relocating the bodies to the council offices however, it could work!
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I live in Blackburn but with the church being torn down i don't know where to look for the records. Also i will be in hospital for a while so i will be a bit to busy. I sure hope that you find a list of names though because my Wood/Carter/ Blackledge and Jackson familys all lived in the general area of the church. Please keep me posted as to how things are going and my son can print them off for me.
I sure hope we can get the list. I know i will do my best to help find the familys.
Lynn H.
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What about Tower Hamlets in London where they are planning to dig up 350,000+! There's a thread on the ToT board.
Nanny Jan
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My house backs on to a small old burial ground. About 35 years ago some of the bodies were dug up to make room for a road widening. The bodies were taken to the local, newer, cemetary and the grave stones were placed along the wall of the burial ground. They are now invisible because they are covered with ivy.
Sylviaann
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I'm fuming about this and am not in a position to do anything about it at the moment. I have checked out a few websites and to my horror i find "ERROR" on page. This leaves me to believe that the council are covering every angle to stop interferance. Please help. ???
Lynn H.
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I fear it has happened many times before & will continue into the future. Where I live a major football field used to be a cemetery. Last time they rebuilt it, many more remains were found (which were reburied elsewhere).
What usually happens in terms of trying to find relatives - The person who originally was the funeral contact, is usually the person on the cemetery lists (I am the contact for my parents graves). When this person dies or moves from the registered address, those in charge of the cemetery, no longer have a contact. I am reasonably sure they do no research to find any relatives (would like to be proven wrong in this).
Trish
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Hi
I'm pretty sure that there is legislation regarding the removal from cemeteries. Is it a church owned cemetery or a municipal one? I'm not sure how it works if its church owned but if its municipal then the council will try and contact the owner of the plot. Unfortunately as Trish says people move or die and the councils records become out of date. The council would probably put signs at the cemetery. My understanding is that its not just a matter of being related but of being able to prove that they have ownership of the plot. You would really need to see the legislation.
Andy
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Went to a Hull cemetery where my greatgrandparents are buried, no trace of their grave, although I was told where it was, they have taken the white marble surrounds from old graves and used them to edge the paths, to make grass-cutting easier I think. I hope they did try to contact relatives first but it must be a difficult job as Trish pointed out, once people have moved away or died.
The only trouble is they've turned the stones round so that any inscriptions cannot be read. Good job I have an old postcard photograph of the grave, which my grandmother kept!
Barbara
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Have a look at this vandalism in Outwell http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cawthorn/Church&Chapel/Clearance/index.html and here is what the churchyard looks like now http://www.harrisonmurray.co.uk/property_detail.php?id=012557. In this case the bodies have not been moved, they are just in someone's garden.
Jennifer
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With all this going on i think it is all the more reason to sign my petition to save our churches and graveyards. Something needs to be done. As more and more people are into family history there are less and less places to search.
Lynn H.
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In this case the bodies have not been moved, they are just in someone's garden.
I wonder if the estate agent should have added that feature to the advert :o
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does anyone know what Council it is? i will email them for a list of names
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It is Blackburn with Darwen. There is a 'contact us' link on their website http://www.blackburn.gov.uk/e
Jennifer
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have sent them an email asking fro the persons names asap as the article dated 12th October said a final decision was to be made next week which is now this week.
also the photo that is along side the article titled 'some of the graves that are to be removed ' is of a headstone for a William Kenyon January 25th 1805 aged 71 & Eliza his wife September 1803 age 84.
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This is just awful. Fancy moving graves just so someone could make money by selling a 'house'.
I have heard of some graves where you make some sort of payment that guarrantees the place for the first 50/75/100 years. Occassionally, in our local paper the Council list all the names of graves where the time limit has expired in the hope of contacting living relatives.
Let us know if you get a reply Toni.
Anthea
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In this case the bodies have not been moved, they are just in someone's garden.
I'm amazed by this. Would the bodies under the garden be mentioned on the deeds/legal paperwork? Do the graves have any legal protection?
Monica
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It's very sad to see the one thing that should be treated with the utmost respect treated with such contempt. It seems to me that nothing is safe from local councils and developers who think can do as they please regardless of the consequences to others.
Jayson
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I think a lot of graves (in general) were purchased "in perpetuity" I guess that just depends on how long the council can be bothered to look after it until they think they can get away with selling the land :(
Carole
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i had an automated reply email saying they would reply within 3 days.
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Hi Toni, Have you had any reply to your e-mail to the council, or are we doomed to loose another cemetery.
Lynn H.
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I know that this is a delicate subject, but it is one that has been happening for many many years. The founding of municipal cemetries was a direct consequence of the vicars and priests in local churches, overloading their churchyards, such that there was contamination of water courses. There was also a major "scam" of burying people for a fee (of course) and then "off loading" another "internee". There is of course much more control with the municipals, tho' of course, from time to time, things may change and the departed may well have to be moved. It is very sad, but I am sure due respect is paid. I hope so anyway!!
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I hope something is done about this, if we, as a secular, independent, yet representative of the public body cannot overcome this then it seems we've lost our most basic rights!
More information about the initiative please!
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no reply receieved bar the automated one i mentioned earlier, have emailed them again but it doesnt look good does it.
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Hi,
I have been backtracking through the Lancashire Telegraph to see if there has been any decission made, but nothing in yet. There are a number of comments against this and people are very upset. Which brings me back to my E-Petition to the Prime Minister to Save our Churches and Graveyards. Something must be done to save our dignity after we are gone.
I'll get off my soapbox now and get on with finding something else to moan about.
Lynn H.
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And then I read in the paper about this ............ makes you sick doesn't it. >:( >:(
Barbara
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=487017&in_page_id=1770
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How infuriating!
It's almost as though they do these things just to really p**s you off.
I'd be voting Mr Ullah out at the next election.
How dare they!
I'm fuming!
Where's that petition Lynn? Can Aussies sign?
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Usually if you're an expat you can sign the petitions Ruskie, that's how I do it.
I was disgusted that they would even THINK about it.
Barbara
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I lived there for a few years - don't know if that counts ....
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You can always give it a try. Just put expat in the box and hope for the best.
Barbara
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I shall do .... but where is the petition? Is it earlier in this post? I'm feeling a bit vague at the moment ....
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Don't worry Ruskie, I can't find it either ...... I'll do a bit of digging and see what I can come up with.
Barbara
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Hi, I see that some of you are having difficulty finding my E- Petition. It is in it's own topic that i started last week. under the heading "SAVE OUR CHURCHES" it has a link to the petition. I do hope we can make a differance.
Thankyou Lynn H.
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From a biased genealogical point of view I agree that cemeteries are an important source of information, but with the news yesterday that the UK population in going to increase by millions I believe that more and more will disappear to make way for housing etc. Probably only church graveyards will survive. Sad but in evertable I think
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Thanks for that Lynn, I'll sign it right away.
Barbara
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Here's the link for anyone else. I've signed.
Barbara
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Parishes/
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Thanks for the link, Barbara
Ive just signed
Jo
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Added mine
Jane
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Just signed :)
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Terrific thanks - will sign this evening at a less hectic time (after Summer Heights High).
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I've signed, and so has my girlfriend. :)
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Thankyou to all. ;D ;D ;D Lynn H.
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OH HOLY GROUND.
They had names once. And as they helped settle part of what is now Lincoln about 140 years ago, they undoubtedly held hopes and dreams for the future.
And they had families who cared about them and wanted them to be remembered.
But all of that is gone now.
Any clue about who they were, how long they lived, what they did is, lost.
Grown over.
Now, they are just skeletons in old wooden caskets in a muddy field. But until last year, no one even remembered they were that.
Until last year, time had all but forgotten the men and women buried in a cemeteryin Jordan Station in the late 1800s.
This is a quote from a Canadian newspaper. It goes on to say that a developer bought the land to build 6 houses.
He stopped wor when he found the remaines, and has decided to build 5 houses and make a properly designated cemetery.
Why are things so different in other countries. Are we not all entitled to a peaceful afterlife.
Thankyou for reading this.
Lynn H.
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but with the news yesterday that the UK population in going to increase by millions I believe that more and more will disappear to make way for housing etc.
Well i hope they all get haunted while living there >:(
The problem with our Government is they bow down to the non English and grant their every wish(or they might get accused of being a racist),while ignoring the wishes of their own people. Plus Councils all over The U.K put cars before people,they need more space lets make more roads.Lets dig a cemetery up,it has to stop NOW >:(.
Celia
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Lynn have you emailed the council for a list of names?
(for the graves that are to be moved)
it was my understanding that once upon a time graves were held for a certain period of time i.e you buy the lease for say 99 years and then it gets sold again after the lease has expired and then someone else buys the land (another grieveing relative i mean and not a council going to make roads) so someone else is buried there.
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Hi Toni,
I e-mailed them again on Tuesday 23 Oct. This time i didn't even get a reply that it would be answered within three days. The way it looks to me is, that if they don't answer then they won't have to tell me anything.
Can anyone think of anything else?
Lynn.
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can anyone ring them?
i think i am allowed to give out the Council phone number on here as it is on phone books and on their website anyway.
01254 585 585
everyone email them:~
info@blackburn.gov.uk
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I've e-mailed them. ;D
Barbara
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Just rang them and got passed to the Cemeteries Office. I am awating a reply from them. I have the number if i can print it.
Lynn.
Added. I have had a reply and they will E-mail me tomorrow morning. Hopefully with a list of names.
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Just rang them and got passed to the Cemeteries Office. I am awating a reply from them. I have the number if i can print it.
Lynn.
Added. I have had a reply and they will E-mail me tomorrow morning. Hopefully with a list of names.
great
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All I can say is bloody disgusting! (wanted to say worse but the moderators would chop me)
Signed the petition
Willow x
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HI, I SIGNED LAST NIGHT AS AN EX PAT....GOOD LUCK
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There is also this petition
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/headstones/
Willow x
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Thanks for that Willow, I've just signed that one as well.
Barbara
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Me Too!!
I have just got another phone call from cemeteries office to say that they can't E-Mail me the list but they can copy it and send it by snail mail. If i'm lucky it will be here Monday.
Lynn.
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At least it's a start Lynn, they're not ignoring you . ... ;D ;D ;D
Barbara
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HI AGAIN.JUST SIGNED THE 2ND ONE
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And while you're all fired up:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/024e/
Please sign this too :'(.
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Done!!
Lynn.
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What the 'eck's "snail mail? ??? ??? ???
Tephra I love your new avatar - it makes me chuckle ;D
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Anything for a laugh Subaru . .. . ;D ;D ;D
I keep trying that link Ruskie and Page not found keeps coming up ..!!!
Barbara
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Snail Mail is to send by post!
Lynn.
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:-[ :-[ :-[
So it is
Thanks Lynn
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Ok signed the 2nd one also
Jane
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Barbara, if you google "tower hamlets cemetery" it's at the bottom of the first page of resurlts at the moment under the heading "Stop the destruction of Tower Hamlets Cemetery". Hope you manage to find it.
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Thanks Ruskie, don't know why the link doesn't work though :-\ :-\
Barbara
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Thanks for the links Willow and Ruskie, signed them both
Jo
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Can I bring everyones attention to this link too
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,264214.new/boardseen.html#new
Willow x
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Signed all the petitions
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I thought i should let you know that the Grave list from the council didn't arrive in the post this morning. Lets hope it is here tomorrow. I can't wait now, i am really getting excited about it as if it was something about my own research. Although it might be as some of them may even be mine. I'll keep you posted.
Lynn H.
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yes lets hope it does come tomorrow, i still had no reply to the emails i sent and i did send a couple of reimders stating i.e the 3 days are up and stil no reply and oncea again it was returned with the automated message.
I don't think any of the graves belong to me, but you never know.
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This is where my ancestors lived and the "Great Flood of Uig, Isle of Skye" took place in 1877
From a report by D. Nairne
"At Uig, the ancient graveyard was carried away all but a small remnant, and hundreds of corpses in all stages of decay, were scattered up and down the shore, or reburied under the debris, the result of landslips, which was carried down in hundreds of tons."
So at least if the 200 hundred bodies have to be moved it will be done in an orderly fashion and not as the result of a flood.
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That is terrible! But i think man should not have a say. With yours as awfull as it was, it was an act of God.
Lynn.
P.S. The postman has been and still no list. I will give them til tomorrow and if no joy, I will go in guns blazing.
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No list again today, I rang them and threatened a firework up his jacksie if he didn't send it soon.
Lynn H.
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Steady now, Lynn! ;D
People on this thread may be interested in Lydart's thread -
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,265318.0/topicseen.html
Monica
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Hello, I am very pleased to announce that I finally got the list of the bodies to be moved. Unfortunatly the information in the paper was wrong and there are 365 graves with a total of 1046 bodies.
The list is too long to print and the information given in it, is only Who is buried, Date of death, and Age at death. no plot numbers or anything else.
If you think that you may have someone buried there, please don't hesitate to ask
Lynn.
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can you just list surnames will that be too long still?
i think i may have Drinkwater's from that area and Bentley's although i am not entirely sure.
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Hello, I am very pleased to announce that I finally got the list of the bodies to be moved. Unfortunatly the information in the paper was wrong and there are 365 graves with a total of 1046 bodies.
The list is too long to print and the information given in it, is only Who is buried, Date of death, and Age at death. no plot numbers or anything else.
If you think that you may have someone buried there, please don't hesitate to ask
Lynn.
Do you have any of these?
McDougal: Duncan, Mary, John. Martha, Joseph, Catherine (could be various spellings of M(a)cDougal(l))
Dignum: Annie, Thomas, Philadelphia
Jones: Hugh, John, Evan, Mary/Mary Ann, Agnes, Norah, Eleanor, Margaret, Jane, Edward, Richard, Henry, Frank/Francis, Ann, Eliza, Jenny, Emily
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Hi Toni. Did i do good? I wasn't giving up til i got it. ;D
Sorry none of yours are on there.
The list is not in alphabetical order and like i say there are 365 graves. The way i type it will take me forever.
Lynn.
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Hi ludovica, No Mc Dougal's or Dignum's
Jones Died Age
Timothy 19/4/1850 55
Deborah 1/3/1861 65
Sarah Ann 2/3/1834 1yr 91/2 mo
James 5/4/1840 2
Lynn.
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Hi ludovica, No Mc Dougal's or Dignum's
Jones Died Age
Timothy 19/4/1850 55
Deborah 1/3/1861 65
Sarah Ann 2/3/1834 1yr 91/2 mo
James 5/4/1840 2
Lynn.
Thats good news (for me anyway) Thank you so much for doing that. Im sure other Jones researchers will be glad to know these are the only ones affected
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Just to let you all know. I have to go out for a while. Please just post your requests and i wil get back to you A.S. A. P.
Lynn
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They dug up graves in Bristol when they were adding a ring road.
They just put up green screens around the area, we used to see them every day when we were going to work on the bus.
Nothing is sacred anymore all councils seem to think about is money they don't care about people anymore.
Lancsliz
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Hi Toni. Did i do good? I wasn't giving up til i got it. ;D
Sorry none of yours are on there.
The list is not in alphabetical order and like i say there are 365 graves. The way i type it will take me forever.
Lynn.
yes it is great that you got the list at last, i wasn't entirely sure where my Bentleys came from the earliset recordi have is Salford but i cannot find them there beofre that.
also can you check the list for Vinton
its a shame they havenot put the list into any order for you, too much hard work for them i suppose!
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Hi Toni. Happy to say there are no Vintons.
It really doesn't make any sense the way it is listed. You would think that they would be in order by date of death.
Lynn
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I now have a list of all those bodies that are to be moved from St Peters Cemetery, Blackburn, Lancashire.
Please post your request.
Thanx Lynn.
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Hi Lynn
Are there any Wallworks??
Thanks
Barbara
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Hi Lynn,
Just wanted to say a big thank you and well done for all your hard work trying to sort this all out :) :)
Barbara
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Glad to say there are no Wallwork's
Lynn
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Thankyou Barbara, It gave me a little excitement in my life for a change to have something to work for. I do feel very strongly about this and i should have E-Petitioned for this seperately instead of including it in my SAVE OUR CHURCHES petition.
Thanx for all the encouragement
From RootChatters.
Lynn.
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I just caught up with all this conversation. How horrible. Is there any Williams' buried there, does anyone know. I had family in Lancashire.
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Hi, I am happy to let you know there are no Williams.
Lynn.
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Hi Lynn
Thank you for looking for the Wallworks ...... it's a relief to find there are none.
Barbara
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Thank you so much for checking on that for me. Is there someplace where a person could see the list? Have they posted it anywhere?
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Hi, I obtained the list from the council, they said there were 200 bodies, but they got it wrong, there are 1040 in 365 graves. The list is not in alphabeticl order and are too many names for me to post. Thats why i have done it by request.
Lynn.
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Lynn:
Are there any Todds listed?
Thanks so much,
Linda
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Hi Linda,
Happy to report there are no Todd's.
Lynn.
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Surely it would be possible to scan the list or have it scanned into a pdf file. Seems a bit too important not to take that measure so that everyone can search for themselves. I have several names that I would like to check for myself. Thanks :)
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Not everyone has a scanner, or has access to one. I think Lynn has done really well so far, and a lot of people are really grateful for her efforts, and for bringing this issue to our attention.
Well done Lynn ;D
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Subaru, ;D Thankyou for your support As iv'e said many times on RC that i am computer illiterate and don't have a clue. I think that i'm a bit long in the tooth to learn a lot of new things, Computer being one of them.
Thanx again
Lynn.
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The east end of london is facing the same problem, only they want to exhume coffins, 1 being my gf, dumping them elsewhere, to make room for muslim burials!! I am not a racist, but if they choose to migrate to the u.k. They should be made to live and die beside the british!!
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do you have a freehold or leasehold for the grave ?
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That's really awful, doesn't sacred ground mean anything to people nowadays?? Trish, are you referring to Lang Park in Brisbane?
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Hi, i will check with my aunts regarding my g.fs grave. Its appaling what the govt thinks best for the ancestors who fought for this country!!