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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: patvp1 on Sunday 14 October 07 10:41 BST (UK)
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Does anyone have any information on Rhos Farm. civil parish Llanferres. County - Denbighshire. Reg District - Ruthin. Sub reg dist - Llanarmon.
My g/grandfather was farm bailiff there in 1881, name of James McKay from Perthshire in Scotland with his wife Jane and at the time four children 2 of whom were born there..could possible have still been in Wales in 1891..maybe in the general area but cannot find on any census.
All help appreciated..thankyou..patvp
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Rhos is/was a small hamlet just outside Llanferres, although the two have merged. It is on the Mold Ruthin main road on the Mold side of the village. I am fairly certain there is no farm there and I have researched all of the houses in the greater Llanferres area searching for my William's family homes in the 1800's. There was a Rhos Cottage on one side of the road and the National School on the other but not much else at that time. Where did you obtain the information that your g/grandfather was there? If you can give any more info I will see what I can find in my files. These two sites are good for early OS maps
http://www.british-history.ac.uk
http://www.old-maps.co.uk
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Thanks Barry for that info - my information comes from the 1881 census, gathered it could not have been too big a place, also on the census is
John Davies at the Schoolhouse, Rhos Cottage is the Chaloner family and he is a police constable, the Griffith family he is a farmer of 100 acres altho cannot read name of the farm, the Hill family at the Druid Inn (trust there to be a "pub") and the Bellis family at Red Lion Cottage and of course the McKay family at Rhos Farm, as I said two of the children were born in Llanferres Robert Duncan McKay in 1879 and Maggie in 1882. I have no idea where the family were in 1891 but they were back in Scotland in 1901. Do u know if any photo's of the area exsist as would dearly love to have some..thanks..It's a bit difficult doing research from Australia and am now kicking myself that I did not have this information last year when I was visiting the U.K. what makes it worse I did a tour of North Wales..dammit..patvp
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Good morning again. Sorry patvp but I am at a loss. I had a look at the census image (if you do not have access to this I can e-mail you a copy) because the enumerator often worked sequentially and I thought that might give a clue to where the farm was geographically. Sadly it is plumb between the Schoolhouse and Rhos Cottage so that was no help, although it does narrow it down a little because Llanferres was divided into two districts for the census and Rhos Farm was in District 6 west of the river. The 1871 census lists Ross Farm (cottage) in which lived a lead mine clerk and Rhos (farm) in which lived a retired farmer. The 1891 census does not list Rhos Farm but does show Rhos Cottage in which lived a farmer so I am wondering if it was one building in 1882 and subsequently converted into a single dwelling. 1891 also lists a house called Upper Rhos in which also lived a farmer. Now the land rises sharply to the west behind Rhos up to Fron Hen and there are several houses along a lane so the other possibility is that Upper Rhos in 1891 was the Rhos Farm of 1881 and has since been renamed again - but the OS map does not show it! I do return to Llanferres a couple of times a year researching and next time I will have a good look for you and see if I can find any clues - but it might not be for a while as our winter weather is not conducive to driving a whole 250 miles!!!
I have never found any old photos in the Ruthin Records Office although the Druid did have a few on the wall but mainly the village. Incidentally, there are two pubs - not bad for a peak population of 800 people! The vestry also used to meet in the Druid!! If you want a 'today' photo I will do that next time I visit.
Barry
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Thanks Barry - Yes I do have the census image for 1881, I would not mind except can't find the family for 1891 but will keep searching as I said they were back in Scotland in 1901 so lord knows where they were in '91.
Don't blame you for not wanting to travel in that sort of weather :o we are starting to get HOT now and it will soon be time to turn on the air-conditioner LOL..
I don't suppose the Druid pub is still there ?? would be interesting to know what happened to the old photo's of the village ???
My family tree is getting larger and larger, have been doing this for about four years now and it is surprising how widespread one's "family"is. Certainly would appreciate photo's when you are on your "travels"" Regards Pat
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Hello Pat.
I looked up the baptisms of the two Mckay children born in Llanferres.
Feb 16 1879. Robert Duncan. S/O James & Jane Mckay. Abode, Nant Plymog.
Fathers Occ. Game Keeper.
Aug 7 1881. Margaret ???????. D/O. James & Jane Mckay. Abode, .
Fathers Occ. Game Keeper & Bailiff.
Margaret had a second name but I (we, I asked other people in the search room for their opinion) couldn't make it out.
Does Henderson ring any bells?
After all that I forgot to get their abode which might have helped Barry pin point them. I'm sure it wasn't Nant Plymog. I'll look for it next time.
Paul
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That was a good piece of detective work Paul and probably throws most of what I said into doubt!!! Plymog is nowhere near Rhos, being at the opposite end of Llanferres (south) and much further out. (The Nant in Plymog refers to the stream - hope I am not doing the proverbial grandmother and eggs!). As rhos is Welsh for moor and as it is all moor on that side of the Ruthin-Mold road it could be that Rhos Farm isn't in the hamlet of Rhos at all? On the other hand, it was enumerated sequentially with The School House and Rhos Cottage in the census. I have also looked at the 1878 OS map and cannot find a Rhos Farm anywhere so I am drawn to the conclusion that Rhos Cottage and Rhos Farm were two dwellings in a single building - but then it is so easy to jump to the wrong conclusions in genealogy. Perhaps the missing abode for Margaret's baptism is key!.
Barry
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;D ;D ;D
Thank you both. Yes Paul, James mother was Margaret Henderson..so we have a hit there.
So Barry this puts a whole new slant on things looks like we shall have to wait for more info from Paul...how marvellous..thanks again Pat..if it makes it any easier my e mail address is pat26438@hotmail.com
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And the Druid pub is definitely still there! Chris
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Hello Pat, the Abode on Margaret's baptism is F or T ? ? Rhos Llanferres.
I think by now Barry you can see you're not doing the proverbial Grand FATHER and eggs :)
Anything else let me know.
Paul.
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Hello Pat
Here is a link to some pictures of Llanferres, including the Druid Inn and the School building referred to by Barry
http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=1787618
Geograph is a wonderful resource for any of us researching from afar - pics & OS maps together - can't beat it!!
Heather
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I have been looking into some friends' family and their ancestor, Joseph HARVEY was schoolmaster at Llanferres in 1851 until 1861 though he was not at home for the 1861 census (still trying to find him!).
He seems to have left there in the 1860s, unfortunately the log books for the boy's school are too fragile to view so only seen the girl's school log books.
Some of the Geograph pictures linked are mine.
Martin Briscoe
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Hi Pat. Found!!! Rhos Cottage was the stables for the mines until the 1880's when it was bought by a family from Cheshire who still run it as a farm. Rhos Farm was/is Rhos Isa, on the opposite side of the road to Rhos Cottage. There is quite a long explanation which I have posted with some photos to your hotmail account. Could not resist posting here for the benefit of other listers, a delightful photo of Llanferres
Barry
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hi i am just beginning and i i amsituated in flintshire i know my family were based in cheshire and north wales does anybody have any info on the surname chaloner?? i noticed the mention of a police constable from rhos farm with the name chaloner??
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Hi Izzybell - Have the 1881 census for Llanferes, my grandfather worked at Rhos farm as a bailiff..
John Chalonor (police constable) dob 1841 born Llanarmon, Denbighshire.
Joanna (wife) dob 1839 born Llyn Y Pand Flintshire.
Children
Joseph H 1866 Coedpoeth Denbighshire.
John Jas 1872 same
Mary E 1876 Same
Arthur L 1878 same
William E 1880 Llanferes.
Address at the time Rhos Cottage.
Hope this helps to start your search..and welcome to Roots chat ;D you will find plenty of help on this site especially the Wales site :D lots of luck.
patvp
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Forgot to add.. :o they had an Elizabeth Lewis living with them dob 1817 (widow) place of birth Gwinear Cornwall.
All the best patvp
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Just looking at the 1871/2 6" map
Going South down the present main road
There are two long buildings on West side of the road marked National School with Bench Mark on Northern end of the Southern building.
Then short road joins from the West
South of that road is a roughly L shaped building with two small outbuildings
Slightly South of there on the East side of the road is Rhos Cottage marked. This has a T shaped building with base of the "T" fronting the road. At the top of the "T" there seems to be a small yard / courtyard with a branch from the T at the Southern end and another long building on the East side.
I hope that makes sense!
Send me a private message with an EMail address and I will send an image.
Martin Briscoe
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Hi Izzybella. About two years ago I researched Rhos farm & cottage for patvp1 (who responded to your request) and sent her details of my find on a personal message, as follows:
"I called at Rhos Cottage which is being farmed by the Cordiner family from Cheshire who bought the premises in the 1880's. Before then it was the stables for the mines but, with the decline in mining and farming at that time, was available at a give away price! The Cordiner's told me that Rhos Farm was on the opposite side of the road, now called Rhos Isa but still a farm. So I called there but all the owners could tell me was that the present building dated back to the 1930's and replaced an earlier building.
I am fairly sure that today's Rhos Isa is your Rhos Farm and this is supported, albeit not proved, by the census reports. 1871 shows "Rhos Farm(cottage)" presumably Rhos Cottage, occupied by a clerk in the lead mine (which fits with the lead mine stables story), and "Rhos(farm house)" presumably Rhos Farm occupied by a farmer. 1881 shows Rhos Farm occupied by your McKay family and Rhos Cottage occupied by a police constable. 1891 shows Rhos Cottage occupied by today's Cordiner family as farmers and Upper Rhos (English for Rhos Isa) occupied by a farmer Parry. 1901 shows Upper Rhos occupied by the same Parry farming family and Rhos Isa which is clearly an error for Rhos Cottage because it is still occupied by the farming Cordiner family.
It seems probable that Rhos farm became Rhos Isa or Upper Rhos in the 1880's about the same time that the Cordiner family bought Ross Cottage cheaply. Perhaps both events were linked to the economic decline in the area."
This puts some meat on the bones that Martin Briscoe provided from the OS map. I have some photos but you are close enough to go and look! You are so lucky living in the area, it is a 4 hour drive for me.
I see no one has answered you general question of helping a new starter. If you want some guidance just send me a personal message and I will gladly point you in the right directions
Barry
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Barry Apologies for butting, in but you mentionedyou were researching Williams family in Llanferres. My gggrandfather Robert Williams and his family lived there in 1841. Rhyd yr Eilun was the name of the farm. Is there a connection to the Williams' you are researching. Dave