RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: magsx1 on Tuesday 09 October 07 21:22 BST (UK)
-
:) Hiya any news about the Wallace family from Ecclefecan ?
My Father was Francis Jardine wallace,his father was Nathaniel Wallace and his mother was Georgina Bell,
anything would help because i dont know where to start!
Thanks mags
-
Hi mags :)
Well you've got a bit of your father's line :D
Could you give some dates and we might be able to help:
Nathaniel Wallace (b. ? ) m ? Georgina Bell (b. ? )
Gadget
-
hi gadget, mags,
could this be them?
1901 census- town head, hoddom
nathaniel...age 26...joiner
georgina...age 26
annie...age 1
jeannie...age 3 months
Joe
-
Wow that was quick! thank you both for your replies.
My father had sisters called
annie
jeannie
also Margaret and one other i think called Agnus? not sure about her though,
but i just get lost when i try to get further than this,
but i havent been able to find my father on any records although he obviously existed.
-
Hi Joe & Mags
It might well be.
They married 1898 in Hoddom. If Mags goes to Scotlands People www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk she can view the certificate and download it. It will, as you know, give their parents names ;)
Gadget
I tried posting this last night before mags reply but but Roots went down.Then it told me I wasn't me and there was a database error and has been whirring around for aggggggggggggges and it was still down this morning.
It would seem that they were both born circa 1875. In the meantime, I've had a look for your father's birth - if he was born after 1906, it wouldn't be on SP.
Gadget
-
Nathaniel's parents were - Robert Wallace, bootmaker and Jane McLaren
Georgina's parents were - Thomas Bell, postman, deceased and Ann <looks like> Warehope.
Gadget :)
-
1881
Old Entry, Hoddom,
829 ED 3 Page 3
Anne Bell, hd, 31
Robert, s, 12
Jane, d, 8,
Georgina, d, 6
Matthew, s, 3,
Thomas, 1,
All born Ecclefechan
Gadget
-
Wallace births in Hoddom up to 1906
1 1863 WALLACE AGNES F HODDOM
2 1861 WALLACE ANNE F HODDOM
3 1900 WALLACE JEANIE MCLAREN F HODDOM
4 1890 WALLACE JOHN M HODDOM
5 1890 WALLACE NATHANIEL M HODDOM
6 1855 WALLACE ROBERT M HODDOM
7 1856 WALLACE SAMUEL M HODDOM
8 1856 WALLACE THOMAS M HODDOM
9 1859 WALLACE WILLIAM M HODDOM
-
1881
Langlands Road,Ecclefechan, Hoddom,
829 ED 2 Page 26
Nathaniel Wallace, hd, 56, Tailor and clothier(employing 2), b. Annan
Agnes,wife, 57, b. Hoddom
William,s, 22, tailor, b. Hoddom
Ann,d, 20, b. Hoddom
Agnes,d, 18, b. Hoddom
Nathaniel, grdson, 6, scholar, b. Renfrew, Glasgow
Robert McWilliam, App, 19, Apprentice Tailor, b. Cummertrees
Gadget
-
Robert Wallace and Jane McLaren married Clyde, Glasgow, 1869. Mags, you can get the full cert image from Scotlands People, as before. This will give you their parents' names.
Gadget
-
The IGI is giving this info for Thomas Bell:
Parents - Robert Bell and Jane Elliot
Spouse - Ann Wardrope
Marriage - 7 Dec 1866, Hoddom
it's a patron submission so needs checking.
Checked - SP has Ann as Wardrop - the marriage is there - 1866, Hoddom, so again you can download the cert.
Gadget
-
A search on the IGI for children of Robert Bell and Jane Elliot, 1830 -1850, Dumfriesshire, produces a lot of hits.
I think it would be worth you going through them for yourself. Listing them for you is just copy typing and destroys the pleasure you might have in finding them :)
Gadget
IGI - www.familysearch.org
-
To summarise:
So far we have:
Nathaniel Wallace
Parents - Robert Wallace and Jane McLaren m. Glasgow, 1869
Robert Bell
Parents - Nathaniel Wallace2 and Agnes Stephenson (from Nathaniel2's death cert in 1907, Dryfesdale)
Nathaniel Wallace2
Parents - Samuel Wallace and Annie Wishart (from death cert 1907)
----------
Georgina Bell
Parents - Thomas Bell and Ann Wardrop m. 1866 Hoddom
Thomas Bell
Parents - Robert Bell and Jane Elliot (Hoddom)
Mags - this is a skeleton that you can fill dates and names in on from what we have found and also the various free sources - IGI, FreeCensus, etc.
Gadget
-
wonderful, wonderful thread,
it is great to see history coming to the fore...
a wee bit more fur oor maggie
1841 census- port street, annan
nathaniel...age 14...apprentice tailor
1841 census- park street, hoddom
samuel...age 57...weaver
ann...age 51
margaret...age 21
james...age 10
1851 census- townfoot, ecclefechan
nathaniel...age 26...weaver
agnes...age 27
samuel...age 5
robert...age 3
ann...age 10 months
samuel...father...age 66...weaver
1861 census- high street, hoddom
nathaniel...age 36...master tailor
agnes...age 37
samuel...age 15...weaver
robert...age 13...weaver
elizabeth...age 6
thomas...age 4
william...age 2
1871 census- langlands road, ecclefechan
nathaniel...age 46...master tailor
agnes...age 47
elizabeth...age 16...dressmaker
thomas...age 14...apprentice tailor
william...age 12
ann...age 9
agnes...age 7
1891 census- newton, wamphrey,
nathaniel...age 16...apprentice joiner
Joe
-
hi pal,
just tae finish aff wae nathaniel....
1891 census- langlands road
nathaniel...age 67...clothier
agnes...age 67
thomas c...age 2...grandson
1901 census- grapes cottage, hoddom
nathaniel...age 76...retired tailor
james...age 11...grandson
Joe
-
Well Joe :)
Looks like we've done it again!
Well done - I just couldn't type any more :-\
Gadget
-
teamwork pal....
do not wish tae forget the bell family...
1841 census- ecclefechan village
robert...age 30...weaver
jane...age 30
james...age 12
robert...age 10
janet...age 8
william...age 6
mary...age 4
francis...age 2
richard...age 1 month
1851 census- ecclefechan village
robert...age 42...weaver
jane...age 43
james...age 21...weaver
janet...age 18...bobbin winder
william...age 16...weaver
mary...age 14....bobbin weaver
francis...age 12
richard...age 9
isabella...age 6
thomas...age 4
george...age 1
mary elliot...mother-in-law...age 70
1861 census- high street, ecclefechan
jane...age 52...washer woman
isabella...age 16...bobbin winder
thomas...age 14...weaver
george...age 12
william...age 5...grandson
1871 census- high street, ecclefechan
jane...age 63...bobbin winder
james...age 22...weaver....grandson
william broutch...age 15....grandson
1871 census- old entry, hoddom
thomas...age 23...weaver
anne...age 22
robert...age 2
1891 census- ecclefechan
ann...age 42...annuitant
robert...age 22...tailor
georgina...age 16...domestic servant
matthew...age 13
thomas...age 11
great to see this family all together now...
Joe
-
;D :o ;D
My God thanks a lot! you have got further than i ever could,
thank you so much, xxxxx
My father was so proud of being from Scotland,he instilled it into his children as well,even though we are English he made us all very proud of our scottish heritage. thanks again xx ;)
-
:)
Yes my father was born in 1909 so thats why hes nowhere haha.
Oh and also i know i'm being thick but what is the IGI ? that i can look up the rest of my family on?
Thanks again xx :D
-
Hi Mags
if you click here (http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true)
You'll get to the International Genealogical Index :)
Also, you could get your father's cert by phoning Edinburgh:
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/famrec/bdm.html
Any other queries - give a yell and we'll all help :)
Gadget
-
;) Ahhh thanks a lot for all the information you have supplied,
and the kindness you have shown xx Mags
-
Hey Mags!
I saw this post and it made me think... would you mind e-mailing me at Moderator comment: email address removed to prevent spam and other abuses. Please use the Personal Message system to send such info privately. You will need to post a few more times to activate the system. Thanks
If you get this, that is!
Cheers
Danny Wallace
-
Hiya Danny, im intrigued? :)
-
Hello, I have a feeling that this is possibly the same Wallace Family I am researching. George Henry Wallace was my partner's g.grandfather. The line I have so far is not 100% confirmed..I need to check the accuracy of some of the sources but it has given me the following skeleton tree ;
1. William Wallace b. abt 1745 Married Isobel Laing
Known Children -
Mary
William
Janet
Robert
Nathaniel
Samuel b. abt 1784
Malcolm b. 1782
Isabel
2. Samuel Wallace b. 15 May 1784
married Ann Wiseheart at Middlebie 22 Nov 1878
Occupation at time of marriage - Cotton Weaver
Deceased - 1866 Hoddom
Children -
Robert J Wallace
William Wallace
Isobell Wallace
Margaret J Wallace
Nathaniel Wallace B. 1824
John Wallace
James Wallace
3. Nathaniel Wallace bapt. 12 May 1824 Annan Dumfries
Occupation - Master Tailor
Married Agnes Stevenson 1843 at Ecclefechan
Deceased 31 Jan 1907 Lockerbie
Children ( in order eldest first) -
Robert
Samuel
Robert ( assumed first Child of this name died)
Ann
Agnes
Elizabeth
Thomas
William b 31 Dec 1858
Ann
Agnes
4. William Wallace
b. 31 Dec 1858 Hoddom
married Mary Cowan 28 Dec 1888 at Caerlarvroch
Occupation - Master Tailor
Dec 1920 Hoddom
Known Children -
Thomas Cowan Wallace
Nathaniel Wallace b. 1890 Grapes Cottage Hoddom
John Wallace
Agnes Wallace
Robert C Wallace
My partner's line is that of Nathaniel Wallace b 1890 his G.G Grandfather. I* would appreciate any exchange of information we can have. I also have the full tree listed on ancestry.co.uk and would be happy to provide access.
Many thanks in advance
:)
I have further information and dates that can provide but I think this is the same family line
-
:)
Hiya, the Nathaniel Wallace born in 1824 was my Great -Grandfather, the Nathaniel Wallace born in 1875 was my Grandfather,
Nathaniel born in 1875 married Georgina Bell they than had children called Anne(ie), Margaret, Jean(ie) Agnes ,Francis,
Francis was my Father.
-
:(
Nathaniel who was born in 1890 had a twin brother called John who died at 3 months old.
-
:(
Opps made a mistake in the above family line.
This is the new version as far as i can tell.
Father-----Francis Jardine Wallace b 1909
Grandfather----- Nathaniel Wallace b 1875
Great Grandfather Robert Wallace b 1847
Great Great Grandfather Nathaniel Wallace b 1825
Great Great Great Grandfather Samual Wallace b 1784
Great Great Great Great Grandfather William Wallace b1745
I would love to know any other info you might have?
-
Hello,
I'm just wondering if this thread is still active.
I am showing below the line that I am following. It is from the 1881 Census, Carlisle.
I find one Samuel, born 1856, in Hoddam, Dumfries, parents John Wallace and Janet Moffat(t). I wonder if I can link my John Wallace (b. ~1827- d. before 1884) to the John Wallace, son of Samuel Wallace and Ann Wiseheart? I would be interested in the marriage cert of John and Jane(t).
Regards,
farrochie
Household Gender Age Birthplace
head John Wallace M 54 Scotland
wife Jane Wallace F 50 Scotland
son Samuel Wallace M 24 Scotland
son John Wallace M 20 Dalston, Cumberland, England
daughter Margaret Ann Wallace F 16 Dalston, Cumberland, England
daughter Mary Wallace F 14 Carlisle, Cumberland, England
son James Wallace M 9 Carlisle, Cumberland, England
son Nathan Wallace M 6 Carlisle, Cumberland, England
-
Hi,
The above tree line is my family and also the Tree line QueenofToast has supplied,I have Samuel as my Great great great grandfather he was married to Anne Wiseheart, in QueenofToasts tree (my tree) there is a John, but I have no idea if it is the John you are seeking, However if you have the dates, the www.ScotlandsPeople.gov.uk is a fantastic place to get certificates from.
Please let me know how you get on.
-
Hi,
The above tree line is my family and also the Tree line QueenofToast has supplied,I have Samuel as my Great great great grandfather he was married to Anne Wiseheart, in QueenofToasts tree (my tree) there is a John, but I have no idea if it is the John you are seeking, However if you have the dates, the www.ScotlandsPeople.gov.uk is a fantastic place to get certificates from.
Please let me know how you get on.
Thanks, magsx1.
The 1851 Census Dumfriesshire, Hoddom, Ecclefechan.
Name Other Name Relationship Condition Age Sex Occupation Birthplace 1841 1861 Spouse Notes
John Wallace Head Married 25 M Cotton Handloom Weaver Dumfries, Annan
Janet Wallace Wife Married 21 F Dumfries, Hoddom
Robert Wallace Son 1 mo M Dumfries, Hoddom Not Alive
The dates for John and Janet fit with the birthdates of the Carlisle John and Jane, circa 1827 and 1831, and with the Samuel b. circa 1857. The remaining children of John and Jane were born in Carlisle.
It is the Carlisle family that I am interested in as Mary Wallace married James Parker, my G. Grandfather. I have the m certificate of Mary and James, m 1884, but English m certs only give father's names. Mary's father is John Wallace, General Labourer (deceased).
If anyone has information on these Carlisle Wallaces, I'd be interested, particularly if their birthplace in Scotland can be confirmed. I'm quite familiar with Scotland's People, so I'll see if I can come at it from another angle.
-
I have just confirmed via birth certificate of Nathanial Wallace, that Jane Wallace was formerly Jane (or Janet) Moffat.
I now have a high degree of certainty that John Wallace & Jane Moffat moved to Carlisle, where they are found in the 1881 census as follows:-
Household Gender Age Birthplace
head John Wallace M 54 Scotland
wife Jane Wallace F 50 Scotland
son Samuel Wallace M 24 Scotland
son John Wallace M 20 Dalston, Cumberland, England
daughter Margaret Ann Wallace F 16 Dalston, Cumberland, England
daughter Mary Wallace F 14 Carlisle, Cumberland, England
son James Wallace M 9 Carlisle, Cumberland, England
son Nathan Wallace M 6 Carlisle, Cumberland, England
-
Hi, I believe my Grandfather is the 6yr old Nathan ( Nathaniel) on your list,if it is, he married Georgina Bell, they had five children, my father was one of them.
-
Here is the birth certificate of Nathaniel Wallace. Does this fit with your info?
I'd like to find marriage certificate of John Wallace m Jane (or Janet) Moffat.
Regards,
James Parker
-
magsx1, This is what you posted before:-
Father-----Francis Jardine Wallace b 1909
Grandfather----- Nathaniel Wallace b 1875
Great Grandfather Robert Wallace b 1847
But I have Nathaniel Wallace b 1874 with father John Wallace, not Robert. So I wonder if these are different lines.
-
magsx1, This is what you posted before:-
Father-----Francis Jardine Wallace b 1909
Grandfather----- Nathaniel Wallace b 1875
Great Grandfather Robert Wallace b 1847
But I have Nathaniel Wallace b 1874 with father John Wallace, not Robert. So I wonder if these are different lines.
I definitely have Robert Wallace b1848 and Jane Mclaren b1844 as Nathaniel s parents, I believe Nathaniel had an uncle named Nathaniel if this helps? B 1825- d1907
-
When I get time I sure I have my grandfathers birth certificate somewhere, I will post it for you.
-
Hi,
The above tree line is my family and also the Tree line QueenofToast has supplied,I have Samuel as my Great great great grandfather he was married to Anne Wiseheart, in QueenofToasts tree (my tree) there is a John, but I have no idea if it is the John you are seeking, However if you have the dates, the www.ScotlandsPeople.gov.uk is a fantastic place to get certificates from.
Please let me know how you get on.
Thanks, magsx1.
The 1851 Census Dumfriesshire, Hoddom, Ecclefechan.
Name Other Name Relationship Condition Age Sex Occupation Birthplace 1841 1861 Spouse Notes
John Wallace Head Married 25 M Cotton Handloom Weaver Dumfries, Annan
Janet Wallace Wife Married 21 F Dumfries, Hoddom
Robert Wallace Son 1 mo M Dumfries, Hoddom Not Alive
The dates for John and Janet fit with the birthdates of the Carlisle John and Jane, circa 1827 and 1831, and with the Samuel b. circa 1857. The remaining children of John and Jane were born in Carlisle.
It is the Carlisle family that I am interested in as Mary Wallace married James Parker, my G. Grandfather. I have the m certificate of Mary and James, m 1884, but English m certs only give father's names. Mary's father is John Wallace, General Labourer (deceased).
If anyone has information on these Carlisle Wallaces, I'd be interested, particularly if their birthplace in Scotland can be confirmed. I'm quite familiar with Scotland's People, so I'll see if I can come at it from another angle.
Hi this might be a very dead thread, my granddad has been looking into this line as James Parker is his grandfather.
I was very stuck with the Mary Wallace side but hopefully after viewing this thread I might be able to find her a bit easier. (seemingly found one that died age 19...not sure how I ended up there)
-
Anyone still researching this Wallace thread? I think I have gone as far as I can with the Wallace family after their move to Carlisle.
-
It won't let me Pm you back for some reason.
I'd love to know how far back on the Parker side you've gotten, my grandfather is getting on now (mid 80's) and he's really wanted to trace his family back. James Parker is my grandads, grandad.
I'm still no further on in the Wallace family search, stuck on Mary Wallace.
My grandad had said that a fire destroyed some records at the registry office many years ago but I'm not sure if that's true or rumour.
-
Shetlandlover.
To make it easier to communicate, you can contact me by e-mail. My e-mail address is:
parkerjg at hotmail.co.uk
I won't post the @ as I don't like posting my full e-mail on sites like this.
Via e-mail, I will invite you as a "guest" to view my family tree on Ancestry.com. You can then register and see the ancestors and descendants of James Parker. James Parker's father was John Parker, of whom I have few details.
My own name is James Parker.
Regards,
Jim
-
:) Hiya any news about the Wallace family from Ecclefecan ?
My Father was Francis Jardine wallace,his father was Nathaniel Wallace and his mother was Georgina Bell,
anything would help because i dont know where to start!
Thanks mags
Reply;
Hi Mags
My grandmother is Margaret Vogan, Daughter of Agnes Wallace, who is the daughter of Nathaniel Wallace & Georgina Bell.
My great grandmother Agnes (known to us as great Nanny Nancy) had sisters named Jeannie, Annie & Margaret & a brother named Frank which I am assuming is your father?
Georgina Bell passed away in April 1943 and is buried in the cemetery of a small church in Ecclesfechan. Nathaniel later moved to New Castle. My 2nd cousin was actually in Ecclesfechan yesterday and he went to their old house & he also put some flowers on Georgina’s grave. I’ve tried to attach the pictures but it keeps saying the file is too big.
It looks like you haven’t posted for a few years, so I really hope this information finds you 🙂
-
:) Hiya any news about the Wallace family from Ecclefecan ?
My Father was Francis Jardine wallace,his father was Nathaniel Wallace and his mother was Georgina Bell,
anything would help because i dont know where to start!
Thanks mags
Reply :
Francis Wallace
Article Talk
Language
Watch
Edit
For the American writer, see Francis Wallace (writer).
Francis Jardine Wallace (10 May 1909 – 1994) was a Scottish professional footballer who made 43 appearances in the English Football League playing as an inside left for Darlington. He also played non-league football for clubs including Tunbridge Wells Rangers, Folkestone and Ramsgate.[a]
Francis Wallace
Personal information
Full name
Francis Jardine Wallace
Date of birth
10 May 1909
Place of birth
Dumfries, Scotland
Date of death
January 1994 (aged 84)
Place of death
Bromley, England
Height
5 ft 9 in (1.75 m)[1]
Position(s)
Inside left
Senior career*
Years
Team
Apps
(Gls)
1927–1931
Darlington
43
(7)
1931–1933
Tunbridge Wells Rangers
1933–1934
Folkestone
1934–193?
Ramsgate
*Club domestic league appearances and goals
-
:) Hiya any news about the Wallace family from Ecclefecan ?
My Father was Francis Jardine wallace,his father was Nathaniel Wallace and his mother was Georgina Bell,
anything would help because i dont know where to start!
Thanks mags
Reply:
Francis Jardine Wallace was born on 10 May 1909 in Dumfries, Scotland.[5]
Wallace signed amateur forms with Football League Third Division North club Darlington in August 1927.[6] He initially played for Darlington's reserve team in the North-Eastern League, and was selected for the Durham County Football Association's Amateur XI to face their Northumberland counterparts in January 1928.[7] Wallace made his Football League debut on 16 April 1928, replacing Harry Lees at inside left for a 4–1 win at home to Nelson; he was reported to "[have given] a good display",[8] and kept his place for the next match, after which Lees returned to the side.[9]
He was caught up in the 1928 illegal payments crisis, in which several hundred players registered as amateurs to clubs under the auspices of the Durham Association, 24 of whom were on Darlington's books, were suspended and deemed professional for receiving "tea money" – payments, often very small, over and above reimbursement of the minimal legitimate expenses allowed.[10] He returned to the team in late December 1928, scored against South Shields, and finished the season with two goals from 11 matches.[11] The arrival of Fred Laycock meant Wallace played little the following season, but Laycock moved on, and Wallace began the 1930–31 campaign in the league team. After the team started badly – the Sunday Sun commented on how their third successive home defeat "once more served to demonstrate the unfortunate weakness of the home forward line, for on repeated occasions they blundered and spoiled glorious opportunities"[12] – he lost his place to Reg Siddle, but regained it in December and played out the rest of the season for 26 appearances and five goals.[13] He was reported to be of interest to First Division clubs at a fee of £2,000,[14][4] and took the eye of the Northern Daily Mail's reporter T.F., who described him as "a great provider. A tap here, a gentle push there, a wide sweeping cross-field pass making for rapid progress, and plenty of bustle to help him along."[15] Wallace was placed on Darlington's retained list, but he refused the terms offered for a further season,[16] and eventually the League agreed to his being made open to transfer.[17]
In July 1931, Wallace signed for Tunbridge Wells Rangers, newly admitted to the Southern League Eastern Division as Kent League champions, for a fee of £1,500.[4] He played regularly for the next two seasons – taking time out in May 1932 to marry Netta Alice Beale at St Barnabas Church, Tunbridge Wells[18] – but then became one of numerous players to leave the club because it could not afford to pay summer wages.[19][20][21] Rumours linked him with Wigan Athletic,[21] but instead he joined another Kent-based Southern League club, Folkestone.[20] At the end of the 1933–34 season, there was interest from Football League Second Division club Barnsley and, more locally, Gillingham of the Third Division South, in a player described in the Folkestone Herald as "undoubtedly one of the cleverest footballers Folkestone has ever had", but nothing came of it,[22] and he joined Ramsgate of the Kent League.[23] In his first season, he scored eight goals and was named as one of the two most consistent players in the team,[24] and he signed on for a second.[25]
Wallace died in January 1994 at the age of 84; his death was registered in the Bromley district.[5][26]
-
Hi Lisa
I randomly looked at this site after nearly 20 years and saw you had posted on this thread just a month or two ago. I might have some info that can help you in your search - I think, anyway.
DW
-
Goodness - this thread is still running after all these years. I'm so glad that so much more has been found since we started finding info 17 years ago.
Mags put up her original request in October 2007.
Gadget :)
-
Hi Lisa
I randomly looked at this site after nearly 20 years and saw you had posted on this thread just a month or two ago. I might have some info that can help you in your search - I think, anyway.
DW
Hello, Yes that would be great!
Thank you
Lisa