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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Glamorganshire Lookup Requests => Glamorganshire => Wales => Glamorganshire Completed Lookups => Topic started by: Dannemois on Tuesday 09 October 07 14:57 BST (UK)
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Can someone please help locate Robert Lawes on the 1871 census, who I believe was residing in Glamorgan at that time. [possibly Aberdare or Gelligaer]
Calculated from the information on the 81 census, the entry should look something like the following:
Robert Lawes, HD, M, 29, b. Durham, occ: Weigher?
Katherine Lawes, WI, M, 26, b. Durham
Alfred Lawes, SO, 07, b. Sunderland
Edith Lawes, DA, 06, b. Northumberland
George Lawes, SO, 02, b. Aberdare
Regards
Roy
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there is this family name "Laws"
1871
Greenfield Cottages
bedwellty
Robert M laws 28 Colliery agent Belmont Durham
Kate E. I.L. wife 26 Washington Durham
Alfred E son 7 Sunderland Durham
Edith M daughter 6 Newcastle on Tyne
Fraederick(?) C son 5 Newcastle on Tyne
George Elliott son 2 Aberdare Glam
mary A Danncey Servant U 15 Domestic Glam
RG10 5323 7 8
Suz
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Hi Su
Thanks you have located the family, I have since learnt his full name was Robert Morrow Laws and what is interesting the young George was obviously named after his grandfather, George Elliot. Just a point of interest he was the Sir George Elliot who owned many colliers in South Wales and started the Powell Duffryn Company. Katherine, was his niece.
Thanks again Suz
Roy
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Dear Dannemois and others
There seems to be posting after posting relating to this family on all the various genealogy lists and chats, I assume because of the connection to Sir George Elliot. I wonder if it would be helpful for me to give more information here.
In the earlier postings you have found Robert Morrow Law(e)s with wife Katherine (baptised Catherine) up to 1871. In the 1871 census he is Laws without the E again. He has come down from Durham to S Wales (possibly sponsored by Uncle George?). By 1881 he and Katherine have separated and he is living with a new wife (?), Sarah Ann, and daughter Ada, in Everton Lancashire. It does not look as if the move has done him much good financially, as he goes from being a Colliery Agent to an ironmonger. In 1881 Katherine is on her own in Brithdir with children Alfred, Edith, George, Harry, Arthur, Thomas and Bertha. In 1891 Katherine (now calling herself Kate) is in London with Bertha and now widowed daughter Edith and Edith's small son Percy Griffiths.
After this date they disappear from UK censuses, the reason being that they (Kate, Bertha and Edith anyway) are now in Australia. In December 1891 they sailed from London to Wellington, New Zealand, aboard the ship Ruapehu. It seems they probably made their way to Australia from NZ. In 1897 Katherine marries Valentine Jacob Hermann in Queensland, and she dies in Sydney on 27th September 1916. There are no Hermann children!
Robert Lawes died in Gateshead on August 7th 1907. Despite both he and Katherine having second marriages (or did he? - I can't find one for Robert and Sarah Ann), it is not clear if they ever divorced. In the 1891 census Kate actually says she is a widow.
Hope this helps,
Ebba.
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Ebba, that is absolutly brilliant, I was unaware there were so many people interested in George Elliott. Many thanks for the summary and also some new info that I did not have. It is much appreciated
Roy
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Hi Ebba
Out of curiousity what other lists and chats etc are the various listings ref to Lawes and Elliott on?
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Glad it was helpful.
Yes there are quite a few others looking particularly for the Elliot side. Old George is a surprisingly difficult man to pin down as I'm sure you have discovered! Regarding other lists and chats I was going to say it was mainly Genforum, but looking I see it's not really true! I rather think it must be mainly people contacting me and my husband via Genes Reunited or Genes Connected, whatever they call themselves now. Perhaps I exaggerated a bit but we have both had quite a lot of contacts this way.
By the way there are a number of descendants of Edith and Bertha currently in Queensland. I have more info but the previous email was gettiing very long. Can I help with anything else in particular?
Ebba
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Hi Ebba
I thought I would explain briefly my interest in the two families. I am researching my local village, Brithdir, in the Rhymney Valley with the aim of writing its history and keen on learning anything and everthing on anyone that has had a connection. I learnt from a friend that Katherine the niece of Sir George Elliott who was residing at one of the local farms in 1881 was an ancestor to a Prof: Bernard Knight. His g.grandfather was Robert Morrow Lawes, Katherine’s husband. Prof Knight very kindly answered a letter of mine with information on his ancestors. George Elliott had a great deal of involvement with the mining industry in our area with a district named Elliottstown and the local mine Elliotts Colliery both named after him. That said I would welcome any info you have and would also love to learn more about the descendants of Edith and Bertha.
Roy
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Hi Roy,
OK thanks for telling me. Sounds interesting - does Brithdir have any other claims to fame?
My husband is related to Prof Knight and we have a certain amount of duplicate information, although I think we (husband and self) are slightly ahead on the more recent stuff, having only discovered firm information on the Australian connection quite recently. I think Sir George also has or had a Masonic Lodge named after himself in Cardiff.
Bertha married a certain Putt and Edith also remarried though can't remember who; it's their descendants in Queensland. I'll look up my files at the weekend and let you know next week.
I would love to know the background to Valentine Jacob Hermann, Katherine's second husband, but he seems quite elusive so far!
Cheers,
Ebba
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Believe you me, for a former and small mining village, my research has thrown up all sorts of stuff on Brithdir, info I was certainly not aware of but I am finding it very interesting. I had a feeling you were some how connected and look forward to further correspondence.
Best wishes
Roy
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Hi Roy
I've found my relevant files now.
Bertha married William Putt in Townsville, Queensland in 1896, aged just 20. She had 5 sons, one of who was a real Bad Lot. Bertha died in 1909 and William Putt remarried in 1911.
Edith Griffiths nee Lawes married Luke Egan in NSW in 1909. She died in NSW in 1941. Her son Percy died in Sydney in 1957.
I have a lot more details and recent information but it isn't my research, so I feel I shouldn't post it to the whole list. I don't suppose it's of interest to you is it (??), as you're researching the village and not the family.
All the best
Ebba
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Ebba
Thanks for the info and I was wondering myself if we should be communicating off list. I am researching the village and those who have been part of its growth and by doing so have made contact with descendants of those who had emigrated from Brithdir to Australia, USA, Canada and New Zealand and they have contributed to a growing chapter on immigration. I have also helped them with their research of their ancestors so I am helping them as much as they are helping me. . I simply want to learn as much as I possible can about the people that resided in the village and requests for photographs and info have been met very enthusiastically with only one refusal to date. If you feel you can help further then we can make contact off list.
Best wishes
Roy
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Hi Ebba
I was Brithdir cemetery yesterday and one of the gravestones for Elliot and Lawes caught my eye and thought it may be of interest to you.
Alfred Ernest Elliot husband of Julia Lawes d. May 22, 1946, age 85
Julia Lawes d. July 29, 1947, age 79.
Roy
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Hi Roy
Yes this is the Alfred who is the eldest son of Robert Lawes and Katherine Elliot, and my husband's great grandfather. This chap appears to have had quite an interesting life as he spent 14 years in the army and was in India for much of the time. There are loads more in Brithdir cemetery. Some of them are really hard to find as the gravestones are getting in poor condition but there probably comes a time when you have to let the wind and rain take their course.
all the best,
Ebba
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Whoops I only just spotted your other posting. Happy to correspond off- list - how do we make contact without posting in public one or other email address?
E.
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Hello again Ebba
In our last communication you mentioned that there were several gravestones in Brithdir cemetery of the Lawes family. I would appreciate it if you would let me have the names etc of those buried there.
Best wishes for the New Year
Roy
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Hello again Roy
Sorry to disappoint - I thought there were a lot of Lawes gravestones but the only ones my husband is certain about is that of his grandparents Victor and Doris Lawes, who share a grave.
We think that Alfred and Julia's patch (mentioned a few messages ago) also commemorates 2 cousins who died in the war but whose bodies were not found. They are probably Raymond and Albert Liversutch and would have been Alfred and Julia's grandsons.
Has there been any recent interest in Lawes' from your area?
All the best for the New Year!
Ebba
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Hi Ebba
Thanks for replying. No recent interest just me I'm afraid, I was wondering what happened to Katherine Lawes children as it seems that only daughters Edith & Bertha emigrated to Australia with her. I know Alfred is buried in Brithdir and wondered if any others were also. You mentioned Alfred had an interesting life, are you able to tell me more on this?
Regards
Roy
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Hi Roy
I'm afraid I was being a bit general - Alfred spent some 14 years in the army in India so I was assuming it was quite interesting! (Perhaps it was not, and he was bored stiff!).
As for other burials in Brithdir there may be more, but none that we know of for certain. Of Robert and Katherine's children:
1. Arthur and/or Thomas and/or George might be there, simply because I have no idea what happened to them after the 1881 census (can't find them in England or Wales)
2. Both Harry and Frederick married and moved to Cardiff, so are probably not there
Of Alfred and Julia's children:
1. Harold and/or Trevor may be there - don't know
2. Jessie who became Mrs Liversutch and Beryl who became Mrs Steadman might be there
3. Marjorie moved to Leicester
4. George moved to Bucks
If you ever get any clues about what happened to the missing children I'd love to hear about it. I wonder if they followed Katherine to Australia? It does seem strange for 3 to completely disappear. I can't find them in the 1891 or 1901 censuses so looks like I'd better have another go at the passenger lists.
All the best and Happy New Year!
Ebba
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Hi Ebba
I don't know if you are aware of this but the burial records for Gwaelod y Brithdir cemetery are at the Caerphilly County Borough Offices in Pontllanfraith, Blackwood and there are open for inspection. I viewed them myself sometime back when researching the date of the opening of the cemetery. They do respond to a letter and they will look for a specific name, if it is difficult to make a visit.
Thanks for the information; Writting an article on Gwaelod y Brithdir farm and Katherine Lawes's connection I wandered what became of the children she left behind.
Regards
Roy
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Hi Ray
That's interesting. Is it going to be published somewhere?
No I didn't know about the burial records but I'll bear it in mind for later. Right now I'm still trying to sort out Katherine herself plus get more information on her Australian exploits, especially the background of her second 'husband'! There are so many rumours about her and it's been impossible so far to discover what is true. There are supposed to be connections somewhere to South America, and I wonder if that's where the missing boys went. How to make any progress on this, I have no idea! One of the tamer rumours is that husband Robert ran off with the milkmaid, which could be true if she became second 'wife' Sarah Ann, whose birthplace is Mountain Ash.
I have been trying to follow the progress of Robert & Sarah's children and have probably found marriages for Ada and Robert Leonard. It's very surprising that in all the years we've been chasing Katherine & family we have never been contacted by anyone claiming to be descended from Robert's second family - and you'd think with 4+ children there would be some. Roll on the 1911 census!
Ebba
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I have been researching the village of Brithdir for some time now with the aim of writing its history and of its people. The hardest part for me is knowing when to stop researching and start writing. The more I learn, the more I want to know. To compensate, I write up on the various topics when I think I have enough info to start putting pen to paper, but no matter how much info I seem to have, questions always crop up. Eventually I'll be satisfied with what I've got and can then look to getting it published. A big task but its a labour of love as I have great interest in the village.
Best of luck with your research
Roy
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Hello again
Please refer to my posting dated 17 Nov 07 ref gravestone at Brithdir cememtery "Alfred Ernest Elliot & Julia Lawes" correct me if I'm wrong but Alfred is the son of Robert Lawes? I can understand adopting his mother's name of Elliot after his father ran off but what is confusing me is Julia is referred to as Lawes? Do you know what her maiden name was?
Roy
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Hi Roy
If that's what it says then it is indeed confusing, because in this case Elliot is being used as a Christian name. It should say 'Alfred Ernest Elliot Lawes and Julia Lawes'. I think it has just been badly phrased. Yes he is the son of Robert Law(e)s and Katherine - actually their first child.
Alfred's wife's maiden name was Wood. She was born on November 1st 1867 in East Stonehouse, Devon. Her family were timber merchants allegedly in the business of supplying timber for ship building. Given that Stonehouse on a modern map seems to be pretty in the middle of Devenport Docks it seems logical!
Hope this helps
Ebba
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Many thanks for you help on this topic, if I come up with anything new, I will send on.
Regards
Roy
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Hello again Ebba
In our last communication you mentioned that there were several gravestones in Brithdir cemetery of the Lawes family. I would appreciate it if you would let me have the names etc of those buried there.
Best wishes for the New Year
Roy
This topic proved interesting with excellent results...............Completed
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Hello, everyone,
I'm George Elliot Lawes' granddaughter from Argentina, and I'd like to give you a report of his activities in South America.
George Elliott Lawes (1869-1912)
GEORGE ELLIOT Lawes was born at Aberdare, South Wales, on 1st July 1869.
He received his early training as an engineer under Mr. E. M. Hann in the Powell Duffryn Works at Aberdare.
On the termination of his apprenticeship in 1889, he went to Buenos Aires and served for five years on the Port Works and with the Buenos Aires Great Southern Railway in the capacity of fitter, valve-setter, and later trial engine driver, taking up the position in 1894 of Acting Locomotive Superintendent of the Argentine North East Railway, where he introduced many labour-saving appliances.
In 1904 he became Locomotive and Stores Superintendent of the Paraguay Central Railway, in which country he was the only representative of the Institution, acting also as magistrate, doctor, and chief constable of the little township inhabited by the workmen and their families.
Three years later he transferred his services to the Peruvian Central Railway in the same capacity and, after a short holiday, was engaged in July 1911 as Stores and Locomotive Superintendent of the Brazil North Eastern Railways, a new company.
His intimate knowledge of the Spanish language and customs, combined with his experience in so many of the republics of Latin America, placed him amongst the highest authorities on the management of native labour on railways in those republic, One of his inventions was an oil-burner which dispensed with the necessity of introducing cold air into the furnace. It was fully experimented with and proved highly successful, effecting a saving of 30 per cent. in oil over other burners.
He died at Ceara, Brazil, after a short illness, on 14th February 1912, of yellow fever, at the age of forty-two.
He became a Member of this Institution in 1904; he was also a Member of the Royal Society of Arts.
-----Sources of Information
1.↑1912 Institution of Mechanical Engineers: Obituaries
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While in Buenos Aires he met and married my grandmother, Margaret Louise Anthony, and they had five children, the youngest being my father, Trevor Frank Lawes (1907-1970).
Regards,
Pat
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Dear Pat
I was so very excited to see your message! Since the previous postings I found quite a bit about your grandfather George including his death in Brazil. But is is wonderful to find a member of his family at last. Are you able to tell me more about his 5 children and their offspring?
There is also a strange family tradition that there is a statue of George somewhere in South America. It seems unlikely, but do you know anything about it?
My husband is the great-grandson of Alfred Ernest Lawes (1863-19460, George's older brother.
Kind regards, Ebba
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Dear Ebba,
I'm delighted to learn about my ancestors, too. Since my father and his sister died when I was quite young, I've had to rely on my mother's memories and and recently started my research into genealogy. That's how I found my father's four siblings, Alfred E., after your husband's greatgrandfather I suppose, Herbert E., Reginald F. and Elinor Margaret.
As for their offspring, the only cousins I know of are Alfred's sons, by their nicknames: Micky Lawes, who lives in Paraguay, and Teddy Lawes, in Sidney, Australia.
I'll try to get more information from them and send it to you as soon as possible.
Regarding the statue, I've never heard anything about it but there might have been one either in Sapucay, Paraguay, where my father was born, or in Brazil, where he died. Grandpa George was quite an important guy there.
Kindest regards,
Pat
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Hello Ebba
Its been a while since we last made contact. Isn't it just great when information, important to the search, comes out of the blue, such as the recent message from your relative Pat in Argentina. I am at long last writing-up my research notes on the history of Brithdir village ready for publication and what a coincidence for Pat's to post her message just when I am currently writing the story of Katherine Laws (Lawes) during her time at Gwaelod y Brithdir farm etc.
Hello Pat
I wonder do you have a photograph of your grandfather George Elliot Lawes, it would surely enhance the family's story
Regards to both
Roy
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Dear Roy
I'm so glad to have appeared at just this time and hope I can help you with this link from another discussion group about my family tree, where there is a photo of Grandpa George.
http://profileengine.com/groups/profile/428383523/global-lawes?offset=
While delving into my ancestors' backgrounds I came across very interesting and juicy comments about my greatgrandmother Katherine and would love to see them developed in your story!
Kind regards
Pat
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Hi Roy
Yes isn't it exciting?
Pat may well have photos but I also have one of her grandfather George. I found it on a publicly available website though annoyingly I can't now remember which and can't seem to find the link address. I have tried to attach it here without success. I'll now try and message you privately with it.
I was also very surprised at the timeliness of Pat's posting as I have been doing a lot of research recently and went back onto Roots Chat again for the first time in ages only last week.
Through this I have found the son of Robert Leonard Lawes and his wife Mary nee Cross, though as he is unrelated to Katherine he may not be of interest to you. Robert Leonard Lawes is the eldest son of Robert Morrow Lawes and his second 'wife' (bigamous?) Sarah Prosser. (For the benefit of whoever, this son is Harry Leonard Morrow Lawes registered in Leeds 1907 and died Grimsby 1986).
But what really may be interesting to you is that Katherine's second husband (again, bigamous?) Valentine Jacob Herman(n) was probably part of a voyage from Europe aiming to colonise Papua New Guinea. I can send you full details if you'd like.
Best wishes, Ebba
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Dear Pat
Our messages have nearly crossed! Thank you for posting that link. It is the same photo of George that I found so Roy take note I will not bother to message you!
Don't keep us in suspense! What are the juicy stories?! I have also heard from many different sources that she was quite a girl but we don't know what to believe really.
Pat, where are you? Somewhere in South America or somewhere else? I am in Wales UK.
I was very interested to hear there is a Teddy Lawes in Sydney Australia as there are a number of other Lawes descendants also there right now. There certainly seems to be some attraction with Lawes people and Australia! These include my husband's mother, his sister and her family (they all emigrated there in 1965 and are near Sydney), my husband's cousin and his children in Queensland, and a large clan not named Lawes but all descended from Katherine's daughter Bertha Lawes. Bertha emigrated to Australia with Katherine (and Bertha's sister Edith) in 1891 and she had 5 sons.
Kind regards, Ebba
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Dear Ebba and Roy
That photograph is exactly the same one my mother keeps in her dining room and it's the only one I have!
This is all I found about Katherine but it is very promising! Now I go over it again I notice it might have been someone in your Ebba's family who posted it!
"I am aware the Elliot Lawes link in our family began in 1861 when my great great grandmother, Katharine Elizabeth Victoria Theresa Elliot married Robert Morrow Laws. Their son, my great grandfather Alfred Ernest, was also given the name Elliot and, family tradition says, the name Laws was altered to Lawes as Katharine was something of a social climber. All of Alfred's siblings were given the middle name Ellot including a George who I think was born in 1869 and who may have died in South America."
My cousin Teddy also migrated to Australia in the 60's or early 70's. He settled in Sidney and I think his sister went to Queensland. I'll confirm this as soon as I get more updates from them. They could all have a great family gathering right there!
As for me, I'm born and bred in Buenos Aires, Argentina, and haven't visited our "homeland" yet, but would love to. Just reading about it in Fall of Giants turned me on! So it's a pending subject for me!
Thanks for your interest and sharing.
Pat
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Dear Pat
That piece you have copied about the Lawes family was written by my husband!! As he has said, she was definitely a social climber. It looks very much as if she traded on her relationship with Sir George Elliot her uncle. Her obituary in the Sydney Morning Herald in September 1916 emphasises that relationship, and also says she is second cousin (not a very close relationship!) to the Very Rev Henry George Liddell D.D. late Dean of Christ Church Oxford. We don't know if this is true or not, but her husband was obviously left in no doubt about what he had to write about her after she was gone!
Looks like maybe your Grandpa George only ever had one photo taken!
Do you have one of Katherine, or maybe Robert Lawes her husband?
There is some thought in the family that Katherine might have travelled to South America to see George when he was working there, or perhaps to visit his grave in Brazil after his death. have you ever heard about this?
All the best
Ebba
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Ebba,
I'm afraid what your husband wrote is all I got to know about her, nor have I ever heard of her coming to see George. My brother David, who posted THE photo we are discussing, is trying to collect more info, but we have no more photos of any of them.
Regards
Pat
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Pat & Ebba
Thank you so much for sharing the photo of George Elliot Laws which I really appreciate. I’m afraid you have me at a disadvantage with regards to “juicy stories” so I’m all ears if you want to share. I watched a very interesting programme on the television this week on the Welsh Settlers in Patagonia and how they have retained the old Welsh language. Being born and spent his formatted years in Wales I wondered if George Elliot was Welsh speaking?
Although I’m not related, ever since I found Katherine residing at Gwaelod y Brithdir I have taken a keen interest in her and find her to be an interesting character. Ebba in answer to your question, I would very much like to read about her second husband Valentine.
Please check your PM, for a surprise
Regards Roy
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hi i think this is an ancestor of mine, my grandad was george elliot lawes, i have just found this site, would be very interested to learn all about it, i havent worked out how to use this site yet, but george was a fireman during ww2 in london, but came from south wales, i think his dad was from durham, i have read a bit on here, and i think they are my ancestors, going back to sir george elliot
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Hi Roy
I'm afraid I was being a bit general - Alfred spent some 14 years in the army in India so I was assuming it was quite interesting! (Perhaps it was not, and he was bored stiff!).
As for other burials in Brithdir there may be more, but none that we know of for certain. Of Robert and Katherine's children:
1. Arthur and/or Thomas and/or George might be there, simply because I have no idea what happened to them after the 1881 census (can't find them in England or Wales)
2. Both Harry and Frederick married and moved to Cardiff, so are probably not there
Of Alfred and Julia's children:
1. Harold and/or Trevor may be there - don't know
2. Jessie who became Mrs Liversutch and Beryl who became Mrs Steadman might be there
3. Marjorie moved to Leicester
4. George moved to Bucks
If you ever get any clues about what happened to the missing children I'd love to hear about it. I wonder if they followed Katherine to Australia? It does seem strange for 3 to completely disappear. I can't find them in the 1891 or 1901 censuses so looks like I'd better have another go at the passenger lists.
All the best and Happy New Year!
Ebba
hi i am the grandson of george elliot lawes, he was a fireman in high wycombe, after the war, he served during the blitz in london, my dad was peter george elliot lawes, born in edmonton firestation north london in 1934, george died in around 1974 at amersham, his wife was phylis john , they both originated in south wales glamorgan. be really interested to see what you have discovered on the family, we have a fair amount of information, like ray liversuch was dug up in a bomber in holland in the late 70's, which my mum found in the daily mail at the time. look me up symond lawes
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Hi Symond
This is 'Ebba', I have heard of you via Samantha (your cousin not your sister) who has mentioned you and I think I've seen postings by you on her FB page. My husband Adrian is Samantha's cousin and the same generation as you, he is descended from George's (your grandfather) brother Victor. You are not actually descended from Sir George Elliot but from his brother Thomas. Thomas' daughter Katherine Elliot is the really interesting one, she was the one who put Elliot as a middle name for most of her sons to carry on the "proud tradition" (!) of being related to Sir George. Then in 1891, having separated from Robert, she took 2 daughters and a grandson to Australia where she married again, probably bigamously though there were no more children.
Robert also married again, probably bigamously, and had 4 more children in addition to the 8 he already had.
To go upwards in the family tree, your grandfather George was the son of Alfred Ernest Lawes (1863-1946), and Julia Wood. Alfred was the son of Robert Morrow Laws (no E in those days) (c 1840-1907) and that same Katherine Elliot. They did both come from the Durham area. Robert from Belmont, Pittington, and Katherine from Usworth near Gateshead.
Samantha can tell you who I am and probably give you my email address if you want. If she hasn't got it tell her to message me.
Cheers, Ebba
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Hi Symond
Please to hear from you. I would like to learn more about Ray Liversuch; do you have the newspaper snippet? if so I wonder appreciate a copy, if not then perhaps you can share details.
Regards Roy
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Hi Symond
Please to hear from you. I would like to learn more about Ray Liversuch; do you have the newspaper snippet? if so I wonder appreciate a copy, if not then perhaps you can share details.
Regards Roy
hi roy, yes i do i think, i have a plastic bag full of old photos and clippings, mainly of my grandad george, but the newspaper cutting of ray liversuch is in there i believe, as kids we had a painting on the wall of a ship done in oils. the name of the artist was liversuch, my dads cousin. one day my mum saw in the daily mail an appeal to family members of RAF heroes bodies found in a bog in a dutch field, an RAF bomber had been unearthed, one of the crew being sergeant ray liversuch, turned out is was my dads cousin, we found his brother still alive, and he came over from canada to attend the full military funeral for his brother and the crew. recently a friend of mine, who is a big ww2 enthusiast found out some information about the bombing raid they were on and info of the other crew members including a letter one of them had written. my email, look me up on fb if you like, i'm the only symond lawes in the world i believe :)
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Hi Symond
This is 'Ebba', I have heard of you via Samantha (your cousin not your sister) who has mentioned you and I think I've seen postings by you on her FB page. My husband Adrian is Samantha's cousin and the same generation as you, he is descended from George's (your grandfather) brother Victor. You are not actually descended from Sir George Elliot but from his brother Thomas. Thomas' daughter Katherine Elliot is the really interesting one, she was the one who put Elliot as a middle name for most of her sons to carry on the "proud tradition" (!) of being related to Sir George. Then in 1891, having separated from Robert, she took 2 daughters and a grandson to Australia where she married again, probably bigamously though there were no more children.
Robert also married again, probably bigamously, and had 4 more children in addition to the 8 he already had.
To go upwards in the family tree, your grandfather George was the son of Alfred Ernest Lawes (1863-1946), and Julia Wood. Alfred was the son of Robert Morrow Laws (no E in those days) (c 1840-1907) and that same Katherine Elliot. They did both come from the Durham area. Robert from Belmont, Pittington, and Katherine from Usworth near Gateshead.
Samantha can tell you who I am and probably give you my email address if you want. If she hasn't got it tell her to message me.
Cheers, Ebba
thats interesting ebba i was talking to my mum last night, she is well into the family history, and yes those names are all correct, i dont know much about my dads family, as we fell out many years ago, but i do have a whole load of photos dating back, one of the lawes was a prison governor of parkhurst, another was high level british fiji islands government under the empire, i have another picture of a fierce looking welsh pit boss
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Hello again
Yes I have heard about the prison governor but can't remember who he was.
The fierce pit boss could have been anybody, since the Elliots were all in the coal industry. Is there any indication of date?
I am astonished by the Fiji connection which I have never heard of, and believe me I've done enough research into the Lawes family over the years!
Is there any chance you are referring to Rev WG Lawes who was a missionary in Papua New Guinea in the 19th C but is in fact totally unconnected with us? It is the only vaguely 'South Seas' link I can think of. Do please let me know as we are mystified by this!
Cheers, Ebba
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Hello again
Yes I have heard about the prison governor but can't remember who he was.
The fierce pit boss could have been anybody, since the Elliots were all in the coal industry. Is there any indication of date?
I am astonished by the Fiji connection which I have never heard of, and believe me I've done enough research into the Lawes family over the years!
Is there any chance you are referring to Rev WG Lawes who was a missionary in Papua New Guinea in the 19th C but is in fact totally unconnected with us? It is the only vaguely 'South Seas' link I can think of. Do please let me know as we are mystified by this!
Cheers, Ebba
hi ebba according to a photo i have of him in prison uniform , its written trevor lawes governor of parkhurst prison 1946, which is a maximum security jail now, so i imagine then when they still had the death penalty, must have been a bit of a heavy duty job
the relation who was chief of police - trevor steadman (dads cousin) diplomtaic service, frogman, district commissioner East Africa, Chief of Police Fiji Islands — at Fiji Islands. i am not sure if he is lawes or my nans side, who were john
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Oh, him...I knew he did a lot of stuff but hadn't heard about Fiji.
Yes Trevor is a Lawes descendant. Start with the generation of your grandfather George - one of his sisters is Beryl Julia Lawes (1905-1957). She married Percy Steadman and Trevor is his son.
Ebba
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Dear Ebba,
I'm delighted to learn about my ancestors, too. Since my father and his sister died when I was quite young, I've had to rely on my mother's memories and and recently started my research into genealogy. That's how I found my father's four siblings, Alfred E., after your husband's greatgrandfather I suppose, Herbert E., Reginald F. and Elinor Margaret.
As for their offspring, the only cousins I know of are Alfred's sons, by their nicknames: Micky Lawes, who lives in Paraguay, and Teddy Lawes, in Sidney, Australia.
I'll try to get more information from them and send it to you as soon as possible.
Regarding the statue, I've never heard anything about it but there might have been one either in Sapucay, Paraguay, where my father was born, or in Brazil, where he died. Grandpa George was quite an important guy there.
Kindest regards,
Pat
I wish I knew
This a few weeks ago,
I was in brazil and then last week buenos Aires, my wife is Argentinian :)
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Hello Symond
It has been a while since I have been on here and recall we communicated on Ray Liversuch. Are you aware his story is on line. http://www.liversuch.ca/raypage.html. I came across it by googling his name. Its a brilliant account of Ray and other family members.