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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Norfolk => Topic started by: meles on Wednesday 03 October 07 08:02 BST (UK)
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Pels told me about a Brock marriage I had missed (Thanks again, Pels!) :D I was intrigued and bought the certificate. Now I am confused! :-\
The certificate (21 March 1869, Alburgh) has the following information:
John Brock, full age, Widower, Carpenter, resident in Alburgh, Father John Brock, Carpenter
Frances Reed, Full age, Widow, no prof., resident in Alburgh, Father William Wall, Labourer
(Witnesses S Y Brock and Kate Brock)
Here they are in 1871:
Alburgh Census
John Brock, 60, Carpenter, b. Gt Yarmouth
Frances, 59, Dressmaker, b. Denton
and in 1881
Alburgh Census
John Brock, 70, Carpenter out of employ b. Yarmouth
Frances, 70, b. Denton
But where was John before then?
Well, there is:
1851 Alburgh
John Brock, 40, Carpenter Journeyman b. Alburgh
Elizabeth 40, b. Roydon (?)
Ellen, 8 b. Alburgh
Susanna, 3 b. Alburgh
Mary Ann, 1 b. Alburgh
1861 Alburgh
John Brock, 51, Carpenter b. Alburgh
Elizabeth, 51, b. Raydon
Ellen 19, b. Alburgh
Susanna 13, b. Alburgh
Mary Ann 11 b. Alburgh
But this one is born in Yarmouth, not Alburgh.
And there is also:
1841, Alburgh:
John Brock, 30, Ag Lab b. Norfolk
Elizabeth, 30
Infant (F), 4 days (aaah!)
and
1841, Gt Yarmouth, Row 36
John Brock, 30, Sawyer b. Norfolk
George, 15
William,11
Edward, 9
I can't find any others.
Did he just change his birthplace? Why? how many John Brocks b. 1811 are we talking about?
meles
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Starting with the two in 1841 - John Brock (Alburgh) and John Brock (Yarmouth). If you can find only one of them in 1851 then one of them must have died, emigrated or hidden when the enumerator came round.
The John and Elizabeth Brock in Alburgh in 1841 may not be the same John and Elizabeth on the 1851 and 1861 censuses. It is possible that Yarmouth John married and moved to Alburgh, but it is also possible that Alburgh John decided to change jobs.
I can only see one likely death on FreeBMD: John Brock, Dec 1846, Depwade, vol 13 p31. Do you have this certificate? Hopefully this would help narrow down the options.
Philip
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Thanks for your input, Philip.
My lot come from Denton, 1 mile from Alburgh. They moved to Yarmouth in the early 1800's.
There are literally dozens of Brocks in Alburgh. But I can't link the two groups. So this info might just be what I'm looking for.
I am glad that you think that 1841 John and Elizabeth could be different to the later ones. Did people change jobs in those days?
SY Brock is a carpenter. His wife is Catherine (is she the Kate, I wonder?)
I don't have the death certificate. I am wary of buying it as there are so many John Brocks in Depwade (which covers Alburgh and Denton) it might not throw up much. On the other hand this wedding cert. has given me huge food for thought!
meles
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Hi meles
Does the John Brock will on the Norfolk Sources site help !
http://www.norfolksources.norfolk.gov.uk/Overview.aspx?n=0&x=0
yokel
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Thanks, Yokel, for that. I found a Probate document, which was very interesting. This is yet another John Brock of Alburgh. ::) I said there were lots! ;D
meles
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Well now for something entirely different ::) ... although he isn't one of yours Meles .. I thought you may be interested !!
http://www.warof1812.ca/brock.htm
Annie :)
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Thanks Annie - I did know about that one.
Also no relation is the chap who created the Queen Victoria Memorial in front of Buckingham Palace.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/speel/sculpt/brock.htm
Mine are ag labs and fishmongers! (And possibly carpenters, if I could only find out more about John!)
I think the John who Yokel found for me might be John and Elizabeth's Dad.
meles
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I just joined Rootschat and found these queries on John Brock. I can tell you that the John Brock in Yarmouth in 1841 with the three boys George, William and Edward isnt the one, as he is from my husband's line and he emigrated to Australia with his family around 1855.
I've been having trouble finding where he is from, I only know he was born in Norfolk - I havent been able to find him in 1851 to verify his roots. But he definitely isn't the one that is married to Frances!
Karen
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A BIG welcome to Rootschat, providing some very, very useful info! ;D
I have a massive database on Brocks in Norfolk. I will PM you.
meles
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Hi there,
Sorry for barging in like this! I don't have any help to give, but couldn't pass up a chance to tap into the large data-base of Brocks in Norfolk, I see here.
I am looking for ancestors of a Richard Brock b. born 1846 in Norwich Norfolk. His second sife was my Gt Gt Grandmother Martha, nee Coultas. His first wife was probably an Elizabeth Barrett who married in 1866 in Guiltcross. Does anyone have these Brocks in their tree?
regards,
Jill
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Hi Jill
Not in my database, I'm afraid. :'(
meles
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thanks so much for checking for me Meles. Back to the drawing board!
regards,
Jill
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I had a little look up for you, Jill.
As you may know in the 1901 Census, he says he's born in Norwich, but in 1891, it's Topham, 1881 Lopton, and 1861 North Lopham.
1851 Census shows him in North Lopham with father Titus Brock, born 1803 in North Lopham and who is on Parish Relief, poor man. His wife is Susan, same date and place of birth and there are Frederick 16, Elizabeth 14, Jeremiah 12, Edward 10, Adelaide 8 (Richard's twin) and Eliza 2.
There are a whole load of Brocks in this area, but not - as far as I know - linked to my family.
meles
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...and a bit more checking and I've found Titus on my database. ;D
And the really good news is - I've got his family! ;D ;D ;D
His parents are Edward and Sarah (nee Curry). No dates, I'm afraid.
Edward is son of John b. 1728 (possibly N Lopham) and Mary (nee Gathercoal) They had another son, John b. 2.5.1757 N Lopham.
John b. 1728 is son of Edmund b. 1705 and Martha (nee Benstead).
Edmund is son of John b. c1670 South Lopham and Hannah.
And John is son of John and Sarah (nee Wiley) who were married S Lopham 14.10.1669.
I hope that's helpful.
meles
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Thanks Meles, this is brilliant! I am familiar with Bradford and surrounds, but had no idea of the Norfolk area, so this is a great addition to our family tree.
I have made contact with 3 "cousins" through ancestry, who are all descendants of Martha Brock, all from diffferent children (and she had many), so will be able to share this info. We think that Richard Brock may well have been transported up to Bradford to work in the mills and if he was in the poor house, I'm sure that would have been very welcome to him. They were tough times alright!!
Cheers,
Jill
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You're very welcome!
I think your supposition that he moved for work is likely. A number of my lot ended up in the workhouse as Norfolk's economy crashed. Many moved away at this time, looking for work.
meles
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Hello everyone
I am descended from Richard Brock's twin sister Adelaide. She was working as a servant to the Holmes family in Manningham, Bradford in 1861 and married there in 1865. Since Richard married at North Lopham in 1866 I assume that he followed her to Bradford.
I agree that he probably left for economic/work reasons. A book called 'A History of The Lophams' by Michael Friend Serpell refers to others leaving for such reasons.
In 1881 Richard was working as a labourer in a velvet mill so I am also guessing that he got a job at Listers mill as Adelaide's son, John Dunn, was a velvet plush finisher there.
In 1891 Richard was a mason's labourer of 87 Chassum Street so he may, like his nephew, have lost his job at the Manningham mills due to the strike of 1890-91.
Dazel
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Dazel, there are a few really interesting coincidences here. I've PMd you with details.
Cheers,
Jill