RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Shropshire => England => Shropshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: pettsy on Monday 01 October 07 22:32 BST (UK)
-
I need you expert advice again ;D
I have an option of two Thomas Rogers births.
1) March Q 1839 ATCHAM 18 14
2) Sept Q 1838 Madley 18 103
So there are two Thomas Rogers out there same age, I need to find the one on the 1841 census with his father called William Rogers.
I just want to double check bothy fathers are not called Thomas Rogers :-\
Thank you.
-
I dont know if this helps at all :-\
On the IGI there is a Thomas RODGERS ch.3.3.1839 Pontesbury which is a sub district of ATCHAM
Father Edward Mother Anne.
Cant see one with a father William, what was his mothers name ???
-
Patrish
I do not know his mothers name ???
I only know his father is William because he is on his marriage certificate.
Thank you for you help.
Pettsy
-
Hi Pettsy,
If I were you I would have a punt at the Madely birth certificate as what I found on the IGI would seem to elimate the Atcham one.
You could order with a reference check for the father William and if its wrong it will only cost £4 instead of £7 .
Thats the only way unless anyone has access to the Madely Parish Records.
Patrish.
-
Hi Patrish,
I will try that one first, at least I only have an option of two, it could have been several ::)
Pettsy
-
Just a thought is Madely anywhere nearwhere you found them on the 1841 census ???
-
1841, 1851 & 1861 Atcham.
Maybe I will start with the Atcham cert ;)
-
Another posibility, the Atcham one may have been Edward William, thats been know to happen before ::)
-
Another posibility, the Atcham one may have been Edward William, thats been know to happen before ::)
::) I will pick one and take it from there, fingers crossed it's the correct one ;D
-
His birth may not have been registered ???
My great grandfather was born c1864 and has no birth certificate :'(
-
Another thought was there no wife on the 41 census with William ???
Can you please post the full reference as I cant seem to find it.
Checked the complete bmd's cant find Thomas Rogers or Rodgers in the Sept q 1839 ??? Madley is in Herefordshire by the way.
Found the Atcham one though.
-
I found both births by searching the books on Ancestry.
I will find it and post it here.
The census I were looking at I don't think are the right family now, because Thomas is 4 in 1841, he should be 1.
I found the census before I found the two birth options for Thomas Rogers.
It was HO107/904/1 Folio 13 Page 17
Someone found it for me in a census look up.
Pettsy
-
Right I found it at last, I had to search again ::)
I couldn't read mums writing, it should have been 1838 not 1839. Madley.
Madley and Atcham still have the same number, 18.
-
I was going to ask you if you were sure that you had the correct family in 1841 especially as you dont yet know the mothers christian name.
With a common surname that is often mispelt its very easy to get the wrong one unless you have specific details of the family.
Ah its becoming clearer now, found the 1838 one its in MADELEY, not MADLEY
They are two different places MADLEY is in Herefordshire
MADELEY is in Staffordshire bordering Cheshire and Shropshire.
Sorry that was my mistake you did say 1838 in you first post.
-
On Thomas's marriage cert what was his father Williams occupation and was he given as deceased , that might help to trace him on the 41
Sorry to keep asking all these questions but we need to know as much as possible to try and find the correct family.
-
Hi Patrish
Ah Madley and Madely :-[.
Right I have Thomas Rogers marriage certificate here.
8th November 1860
Thomas Rogers 21 years Bachelor Railway Labourer Castle T/F..gate. Father William Rogers DESCEASED, Labourer.
Thomas was able to sign his own name too.
He married Ann Williams 20 years Spinster Servant Father William Williams Labourer.
I have all the correct info and census for her and her family.
It's just Thomas Rogers I have to start again,as I was given the census info before I had his marriage cert.
Thank you for all your help.
Pettsy
-
I am happy to try and help I like the challenge :)
o.k. so Thomas was still in Atcham when he married in 1860 so that is the area to concentrate on Shropshire. Do you have anything to confirm that this is the correct marriage of your Thomas . ???
Who are the witness at the marriage often they are siblings so we might gain a clue there in searching for him in 1841 . ???
This is getting complicated.
We have the original famiy that was found for you in 1841.
William Rogers 34 Ag Lab
Rose 31
William 11
Mary 7
THOMAS 4
Richard 2
On the freebmd there are these births
THOMAS ROGERS b Sept q 1838 Madeley 18 - 14
RICHARD ROGERS b JUne q 1839 ATCHAM 18 - 4
Which I think are the above family.
But there is also another THOMAS ROGERS b March q 1839 ACTHAM 18 - 4
There is obviously at least 2 Rogers families in the same area, we have to find out which one is yours. :-\
-
Hello again Patrish,
I am glad you like a challenge ;D thank you.
The witnesses were Edwin Spencer and Charlotte Lee.
These names mean nothing to me :-\
Another reason I don't think I have the correct family on the census is that I still have William and Rose Rogers in 1871, yet William was deceased on Thomas marriage cert in 1860 ::)
-
Well thats confirms it, you have the wrong marriage certifcate I am afraid :( and thats why the wittness dont help.
So now we have to find Thomas Rogers b 1839 Atcham on the 41 .
I have checked the deaths for a William Rogers on the free bmd but there is nothing showing before 1860.
I will take another look at the 41, and 51 census's Shropshire.
-
Are you sure it's the wrong marriage cert ???
He married Ann Williams, and Ann William was Harriets Rogers mother.
I have Harriet Rogers birth cert....
And Harriet was my great grans mother.
I couldn't find a death for William Rogers either ???
It's getting very confusing ::)
-
Sorry yes I was just thinking the same thing, it should be the right one, my heads going around in circles. ;D
-
Oh I know, it's so easy, I have to take a step back sometimes and double check everythink.
It's so easy to follow the wrong lead.
The marriage is correct, but where his birth is ???
My head is spinning too ;D
-
I simply cannot find Thomas b 1839 with a father William anywhere on the 1841 grrr. we now know its not the other family.
What about sending for the birth of Thomas Rogers b March q 1839 Atcham 18 - 14. I cant think of anything else to suggest.
I wonder if he was illegitimate as they very often falsified their fathers on marriage certificates, my own gt grandmother did that. ::)
If that was the case the mother could be living with someone else or married and he would be down under thier surname :-\
There are so many possibilities :o
-
Yes I think I will order the Atcham cert.
My nan was born there too, so the families have been there for a long time, still there now.
Nan left for London in the 1930's.
You could be right.
My gg grandfather on my mums side, has no father on his birth cert, yet on his marriage cert he has John Cannon deceased ???
I know it cannot be his father, as Cannon was his mothers maiden name.
Anyway lets no start on that it's been confusing enough.
I will let you know the outcome of the birth cert.
Don't know if to do a check for father named William now, in case he did make it up for his marriage cert ???
Thank you for all you help ;)
-
Don't know if to do a check for father named William
Personally Pettsy I would not, I think you just have to take a chance this time as we cant find any other that fits within that time frame and right area, at least you will know who this Thomas's father is (hopefully) so we may able to eliminate him if nothing else.
Yes please do let me know, :) we may have to go off on another hunt ::)
-
I won't do a check, as father may not even be on cert ::)
I bet they are having a laugh at us, up there ;D
I hope it holds a clue, but I still cannot find him on 1841 without a father ???
-
I hope it holds a clue, but I still cannot find him on 1841 without a father
Me neither ::) think I am going to ask for help from a very good friend here ;)
-
Ooh that would be great if we could find out more.
I feel like I am chasing my tail and getting nowhere ;D
I am off to search again ::)
-
Good luck (http://www.websmileys.com/sm/happy/042.gif)
-
Hi both :)
Sorry, no answers, only questions.How sure are we of Thomas' age? Is his age consistent on marriage cert and census? Is his birthplace consistent on census? (I can't see a Thomas Rogers b. Atcham 1839 on census with a wife Mary! :P)
:)
-
Hi Tati,
Sorry but that is another mystery ::)
Thomas Rogers & Ann Williams had a daughter called Harriet Rogers, my gg great grans mother.
For some reason I Harriet was living with Harriet Williams and William Turner on the 1881 census.
RG11/2647 F.7 P.5
She is also with them in 1871.
So where were her parents Thomas and Ann Rogers ???
What happened to them ???
I just don't know.
Did they die? Did they leave the country?
My head has been spinning trying to solve this mystery.
Yes I got their ages from their marriage certificate.
-
Do you have them on the 1861 census at least? ???
-
Hello and thank you very much Tati,
I think these are the anwers to your questions :-\
Right I have Thomas Rogers marriage certificate here.
8th November 1860
Thomas Rogers 21 years Bachelor Railway Labourer Castle T/F..gate. Father William Rogers DESCEASED, Labourer.
Thomas was able to sign his own name too.
He married Ann Williams 20 years Spinster Servant Father William Williams Labourer.
Patrish
-
Sorry Tati and Pettsy,
I dident see your last posts before I posted mine :-[
Have I got this right we are looking on the census's for a Thomas Rogers b circa 1839 married to Ann formerly Williams :-\
-
I cant see a Thomas Rogers with a wife Ann on the 1860 census ???
No Rodgers either ??
What is Harrietts date of birth and where was she born please ???
Then we can acertain when and where they were and alive then.
-
Hi Patrish,
Looking at your post with the marriage cert it looks like Thomas was possible living in Shrewsbury when he married.
I think that he was living in Castle Foregate
Allie
-
Hi everyone :)
Harriet Ann Rogers was born 9th March 1863
parents Thomas Rogers Railway Labourer & Ann Williams.
Address 13, Drayton Buildings, Shrewsbury.
Sub district of St Mary in the County of Salop.
As I said I have Harriet on the 1871 and 1881 but not with her parents.
Her parents seem to have vanished, or died ???
Thank you for all your help.
Perts
-
So - if you don't have them in 1861 either, where do you have Thomas' birth place from?
Can you give us Ann's birth year & birth place? :)
-
I know this doesn't explain why we cannot find Thomas or Ann on the 1861 but I have found a couple of possible deaths.
THOMAS ROGERS born about 1839 death June q. 1866 Shrewsbury 6a - 488
ANN ROGERS death Sept q. 1865 Shrewsbury 6a - 428
What does anyone think ???
-
Another to ponder over :-\
1861 RG9/1888/14/3
Rag Lane, Prees, Shropshire.
THOMAS T. ROGERS h.m. 22 Bricklayer b Hadnall, Shropshire
ANNIE wife 21 b Prees, Shropshire
John Rogers visitor 26 Carepenter B Hadell
Hannah visitor 20 b Prees.
-
Shame Thomas isn't a Railway lab, eh!
Let's see if Ann's details match :D
-
I thought it more than possible for a brickie labourer to become a railway labourer, there not that far apart ;D
But as you say maybe Ann details will fit if Pettsy has them. :-\
-
Hi everyone :)
I am getting so confused now, so had to get all my notes out :-[
Okay I do have the marriage cert for Thomas & Ann, which gives theirs ages.
I then looked for their births, I found two Ann Williams.
1) June Q 1840 Shrewsbury 18 171
2) Sept Q 1840 Shrewsbury 18 157
I guess she is the first entry as someone found her birth and bpt which was 25th July 1840 bpt 16th Aug 1840.
I think it was IGI.
;)
-
I thought it more than possible for a brickie labourer to become a railway labourer, there not that far apart ;D
But as you say maybe Ann details will fit if Pettsy has them. :-\
Brickies served a 7 year apprentice, I would think a railway labourer would have maintained the rails etc......
-
Brickies served a 7 year apprentice
I dident know that, I was clucthing at straws I suppose, what do you think Of the deaths ??? it would explain why she is living with her grandparents in 1871 and 1881 :-\
-
I am sorry Patrish, I forgot to thank you :-[
Yes it is a likely possability.
I was wondering if one died and the other one cracked up, or TB maybe ???
It was riff then.
I will have to think about which one to order, mum buys them and I have 4 to buy next week already, but I will put them in my note book.
I was thinking, if I could find out where they were buried, if there is a headstone which will state they were buried together.
While doing my Scottish research they had books of MI's (Monumental Inscriptions)
Thank you.
Pettsy
-
Would anyone have any idea of which cemetery they could have been buried in, in Shrewsbury in 1886 & 1868?
I could contact them and see if they have them buried together?
-
I would not send for either until we have a bit more information, just keep them in mind.
If you post a separate request for the cemetery details you might get more response. If not why not try and contact the Shropshire Family Hist Society
http://www.sfhs.org.uk/
The death certificate will not tell you where they were buried :(
The deaths were 1865 and 1866 not 1868 and 1886 just to clarify. ;)
Hope this helps
Patrish.
-
The deaths were 1865 and 1866 not 1868 and 1886 just to clarify. ;)
Oh I don't know why I wrote them dates :-[
It's been a long day, started a new course today, and spent too long on mirco film ::)
No the certs won't say where they are buried, but with the area/address we can narrow it down.
-
Will ask great aunt where the Turners are buried.
They were all from the same area of Shrewsbury ;)
-
Hi
I collect my birth cert of Thomas Rogers from the FRC yesterday.
And it's the wrong Thomas :'(
This one is Thomas Rogers born 9th Feb 1839. Father Edward Rogers a Collier.
Mother Ann La Relin.
Pontesbury, Atcham, Salop.
And we forgot to do a check for father William :-\
-
This is now an old thread - if anyone's still watching it please let me know and I'll my tuppence worth - think it might be worth it. In the meantime have a look at: http://wulliam.co.uk/2genealogy/fam41.html
Your Thomas was a bricklayer - so was my William.
Please get in touch!
William
-
Hi William
I am still researching Thomas Rogers and his family. I will pm you now. Thank you for getting in touch.
Pettsy