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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: farmer on Monday 01 October 07 13:20 BST (UK)
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re Bernard McKeever Halliday, born 1 Mar 1901 in 75 Canmore St Belfast.
Family history says of his mother -
"her parents went to US
she was born in US
family came back to Belfast
came to Glasgow
lived in Shankhill Road (Note - Canmore St intersects with Shankill Rd)
Mrs Murphy had priest in who delivered Bernard
the priest's name was Father McKeever"
I'm trying to trace Fr McKeever - to determine if his first name was Bernard - if it's not, then the name Bernard would send me firmly in another direction.
I contacted St Malachy's and The Catholic Communication Office in Belfast , there is a Fr McKeever who was in St Malachy's in Belfast, but he was ordained in 1903. I thought perhaps a trainee priest might be doing pastoral work, and be referred to as "Father"? Or perhaps a trainee priest visiting relatives in the area?
CCO thought perhaps Fr McKeever might not have been Catholic, but another denomination.
I've searched directories, even looked for Mrs Murphy in Canmore St, nothing! Even wondered if Ballymurphy could have been mistaken for Mrs Murphy?
I need advice on how to proceed next.
Peter
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I tried the McKeever bit first
From www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ccomplete1907.htm
Canmore Street
Shankill Road to Cupar Street
73 to 77. Vacant ie no Mrs Murphy or Halliday
Carnmoney Street
New Lodge Road to Artillery Street
4. McKeever, Wm., labourer
10. McKeever, James
in 1843
Grattan Street
38 Gordon Street
38. Law. McKeever, Shoe Maker.
In 1843
James' Street
East end of Gordon Street
58. James McKeever, Mariner.
More exists but I stopped at that
Then I looked at www.belfastfamilyhistory.com for 1901 census
Bernard McKeever 33 DUNMORE ST
Bernard McKeever Year: 1901 Age: 25 Sex: m Relgion: roman catholic Marital Status: married Occupation: iron turner Birth Place: Co Derry Education: r+w
Bernard Mckeever 27 GROSVENOR PLACE
Bernard Mckeever Year: 1901 Age: 53 Sex: m Relgion: roman catholic Marital Status: married Occupation: labourer Birth Place: Co Antrim Education: not r+w
Then I wondered why are we not looking at the birth certificate details for
1 Mar 1901 in 75 Canmore St Belfast
I tried www.emeraldancestors.com and found a Bernard Murphy b 1870 Co Antrim, I also tried for a Bernard Halliday and found none. I think 1901 is too late to try on www.familysearch.com. I tied for Bernard McKeever and got just marriages
1867 bernard MCKEEVER
catherine
Antrim
1867 bernard MCKEEVER
sara
Antrim
1873 bernard
jane MCKEEVER
Antrim
1895 bernard MCKEEVER
catherine
Antrim
1895 bernard
mary MCKEEVER
Antrim
1897 bernard MCCAFFREY
jane
Antrim
1898 bernard MCIVER
margaret
Antrim
1914 bernard
cassie MCKEEVER
Antrim
Wishing you luck onwards, Jim
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Then I wondered why are we not looking at the birth certificate details for
1 Mar 1901 in 75 Canmore St Belfast
I tried www.emeraldancestors.com and found a Bernard Murphy b 1870 Co Antrim, I also tried for a Bernard Halliday and found none. 1905 Eileen Frances HALLIDAY F Antrim. Earlier Co Antrim Halliday births are listed up to 1875
I think 1901 is too late to try on www.familysearch.com
During these searches I noticed that the falls ward lies within the parish of Shankill, but that doesn’t matter with the birth you know about.
Vaguely I remember the clergy are listed at the front of each street directory
Onwards, more luck, Jim
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nearly finished! Finally from www.lennonwylie.co.uk/ulster_covenant_CantonStreet.htm, I noticed two Halliday living opposite each other or did he just move across the road in Canton Street
28 (could be 26) Halliday, Stephen signed the covenant in 1912.
34. Halliday, Stephen, labourer as in the 1910 Street Directory and could someone have transcribed Canmore street for Canton St and vice versa. Canton St is south across the lagan in Beersbridge Road area.
This time its goodbye, and I understand how you feel. Lots of luck, Jim
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Hi Jim
you pulled out all the stops on this one - and I'm very grateful for your time and trouble.
Not disappointed, like my grandparents, Fr McKeever WILL turn up sometime!
Again, thank you
Peter
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Hello Peter,
Could you clarify this bit please?
family came back to Belfast
came to Glasgow
lived in Shankhill Road
Were the family in Belfast, then Glasgow and back in Belfast?
I'm wondering if maybe Fr McKeever came from somewhere other than Belfast ... possibly Glasgow?
Christopher
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Hi Christopher
Bernard McKeever Halliday was my uncle. The information I posted appears to be verbal family history and is an extract from his grandson's gedcom. The movements of the family up till my grandmother's marriage in Glasgow in 1894 are completely unknown.
The gedcom is all we have up till then, and the order of their movements we can only guess at.
???
Peter
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Hi Peter,
I can't think of other denominations, other than the Catholic Church, which would have been in Belfast at the time of Bernard's birth who would have called their priests Father.
It might be an idea to contact the Roman Catholic Church in Scotland. Their records are held by the Scottish Catholic Archive and the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Glasgow Archive.
Christopher
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Thanks for the advice Christopher - I'll do that, I'll leave it till Monday, do a bit of phoning around, let you know how I get on.
cheers
Peter
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Peter, I notice you on GenesReunited.co.uk
are you in contact with Thomas and Martin whose names turn up in search for Bernard Halliday 1901 Shankhill Road
I didnt understand in the oral history who Mrs Murphy was? a landlady
In case the oral story has become embelished, I have encountered belfast people who have referred to say father Gracey did this or that, but they were useing it a a shorthand or nickname for a neighbour's father, perhaps they couldnt remember his name, they were not referring to a priest as such. Anway have a good weekend, Jim
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Hi Jim,
yes, I'm in touch with Martin and Thomas, cheers. The gedcom in question is Martin's. There are many of us all researching the same families, I believe the first submissions to LDS were made about 1900.
I take your point about the use of "Father".
What I'm trying to prove is that Fr McKeever's first name was NOT Bernard.
I'll explain -
My ggggrandfather John Halliday of Londonderry married Margaret Rogan in Strabane around 1800 in Strabane. Their son Abraham christened a son "Francis Rogan Halliday".
There was an eminent doctor Francis Rogan, born 1787 in Strabane whose father was Bernard Rogan.
We do not know anything about John Halliday (Holliday) or Margaret Rogan before their marriage, but searches quite frequently throw up the Halliday medical family from that area.
You've put in so much hard work, you deserve an explanation of where I'm going with this.
All supposition at the moment.
Thanks
Peter
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Typical medics, thank you Peter for filling me in, Jim
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Hi Farmer.
Would this be of any help to you.
Belfast 1896
Wm, Halliday 68 Canmore St.
I have a photo of a Father Mckeever taken 1930 but don't think its the one you are looking for he only looks about 30 in the photo.
Templar/Anthony
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Hi Templar Knight,
Fr McKeever, the one I was told about at St Malachy's - he was ordained in 1903, died 1958.
Wm Halliday of 68 Canmore St - you may remember we spoke about Little York St a while ago, where a few generations of my family lived.
Looks like Canmore St may have been another area where my family lived.
Could be this is my great grandfather, born about 1832 in Belfast, I would expect to see his wife Catherine too.
Although William (a weaver) and his family lived and worked in Glasgow, there is no trace (so far) of his death here in Scotland, so it's very possible if this is my great grandfather, he died in Belfast.
My family would drive you to distraction, they followed the work, smiths, weaving, shipbuilding, all over the place, Belfast, Glasgow, Birkenhead, USA, Australia, India, even Panama.
I suppose this story is repeated in many Irish families.
Later generations seem to have hopped back and forwards across the Irish Sea at the least excuse, BDMs, sport, things like that.
Thanks very much for your input,
Peter
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Hi Farmer.
Would this be of any help to you.
Belfast 1896
Wm, Halliday 68 Canmore St.
I have a photo of a Father Mckeever taken 1930 but don't think its the one you are looking for he only looks about 30 in the photo.
Templar/Anthony
Hi Anthony, it might be an idea to post that picture of Father McKeever.
Peter, I wonder if the CCO could provide you with a list of all Father McKeevers in Ireland in the early 1900s. It's possible he came from somewhere in Ireland other than Belfast.
Christopher
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Some entries from Londonderry Sentinel newspaper:
2 Oct.1838: On the 18th inst., the lady of Francis Rogan, Esq., M.D., of a daughter.
22 May 1841: On the 9th inst., the lady of Francis Rogan, Esq., M.D., of a son.
3 Dec.1842: On the 21st inst., the lady of Francis Rogan, Esq., M.D., of a son.
18 Aug.1854: On Sunday, the 13th inst., at his residence, St. Columb's Court, after a few days illness, Francis Rogan, Esq., M.D., of this City, aged 67 years.
12 Apr.1864: April 6, at Leven, Gourock, Margaret Erskine, relict of Francis Rogan, M.D., of Londonderry.
13 Sept.1834: In this City, on Saturday last, Mrs. Rogan, relict of the late Dr. Rogan, of Strabane.
27 Nov.1841: At Strabane, on Friday the 12th inst., Mr. Hugh Haliday.
30 Apr.1836: On Wednesday, the 27th inst., in Bishop street, Mrs. Haliday, aged 75 years. Her virtues as a wife, her precepts, example, and affection as a parent, and sincerity as a friend, were seldom to be equalled.
There are certainly lots of Rogans- an several of them medical men: H.G. Rogan & William Rogan both surgeons, R.N., Dr. Bernard Rogan, Dr. William Rogan, etc.
Don't know if they are of interest but if you want the rest of them let me know and I send them to you off list.
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Apologies for my not replying,
I'm "flued up" at the moment, will get back to you.
All advice and input IS appreciated.
Thanks
Peter
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Thank you very much, Aghadowey.
A cuz has sent me images of Francis Rogan's memorials in Londonderry Cathedral, so along with your information I now have much more on the Rogans.
Grateful to you for all the interesting information on Hollidays, as you will have realised, my family have used all the different spellings, which is a burden. I believe Hugh in Strabane had a Whitesmith shop (in Pigotts), the same trade as my ggggrandfather, from the same area.
Not fully recovered from the flu, so cutting right back on RC just now, but again, thanks for your interest and input.
Peter
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Sorry to hear you had the flu Peter.
I hope you are well on the road to recovery.
Christopher
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Thanks for that Christopher,
Laughing, my own fault for not going for a flu jab. Clearing up slowly now. I knew it was bad when I couldn't be bothered with my daily browse through Rootschat! :(
Peter
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I came across info on Francis Rogan, M.D. in a post you made back in 2007. My great grandmother was a Margaret Rogan born in 1838. I think she might be the daughter of Francis Rogan (1787-1854) and Margaret Erskine Rogan (don't have birth date - but death date is 1864 I believe) of Londonderry. That's as far as I have been able to get. I would appreciate any info you would be willing to share with me. Thanks!
Patricia Grace