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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Topic started by: Half Pint on Sunday 30 September 07 23:27 BST (UK)

Title: Religious/Political Organisations
Post by: Half Pint on Sunday 30 September 07 23:27 BST (UK)
Hi


My 3x gr grandfather was born c1833 in either Ireland/England (not sure which yet) and died in Cumberland in 1880.  An elderly relative thinks he was an Orangeman as she thinks she remembers seeing his sash.

I have never had any political/religious leanings so please bear with me whilst I ask the following questions.

If he was an Orangeman, I believe he would belong to a "Lodge", if so how old would he be when he became/joined?

If he moved to another part of a country/ or overseas would he join the "local Lodge"?

Would the Lodge be emblazoned on his sash?

Are there records that could be researched?

Thank you for your time.

Regards

Half Pint
Title: Re: Religious/Political Organisations
Post by: leprechaun on Monday 08 October 07 13:15 BST (UK)
 Hi, The orange order-Lodge as it's more commonly known is a Protestant Fraternal Organisation.It was founded in Loughgall Co, Armagh In Ireland in 1795.
 most Lodges carry flags,Union Jack,The Flag of Ulster,The flag of Scotland and the Orange order Flag.also a banner which will include the name of the Lodge.and it usually depicts William of Orange.
   As to how old he would have been,would depend if the whole family were Orange people,children do walk with them.Other wise he would have joined as a young man.If he was a staunch orange man he would most likely have stayed in the Lodge when he went to England.
                               Hope this help's Lep  :)
                       
Title: Re: Religious/Political Organisations
Post by: Christopher on Sunday 08 June 08 23:25 BST (UK)
Hello Half Pint and Lep,

Junior lodges didn't start until sometime in the late 1800s. The Junior Orange Association was formed after the Great War and the Association's first organised parade took place in 1919.

A great many of the banners of Orange Lodges don't  contain images of William of Orange. There are a huge range of images that are used ... most relate to various periods in Ulster's history ...

Images on the banners may include the Battle of the Somme, Church buildings, a Crown on a Bible and founder Lodge members or deceased Lodge members.

Christopher

Title: Re: Religious/Political Organisations
Post by: leprechaun on Monday 09 June 08 14:30 BST (UK)
 Hi Christopher,
    It's an interesting debate. Orange Lodge for boys were in existence in Belfast in the latter part of the 19th Century,but it's difficult about the date due to the fact that in the early years,accurate records were not kept.
        I have seen an image of a young boy,holding a sort of banner with the image of William of Orange on it.
                                     Lep
Title: Re: Religious/Political Organisations
Post by: Christopher on Monday 09 June 08 14:41 BST (UK)
Hi Lep,

I've seen everything now 8)

This link contains a photo of soldiers preparing for a 12th of July parade in the Far East in 1944. www.grandorangelodge.co.uk/history/Orangeism_Military.html

Christopher
Title: Re: Religious/Political Organisations
Post by: leprechaun on Monday 09 June 08 15:32 BST (UK)
 Well Christopher,Last the last thing I expected to see. ;D And I too have now seen it all.
       Where did they find the time. ???
                            Lep.
     
Title: Re: Religious/Political Organisations
Post by: Christopher on Friday 04 July 08 17:12 BST (UK)
Well Christopher,Last the last thing I expected to see. ;D And I too have now seen it all.
       Where did they find the time. ???
                            Lep.
     

Hi Lep,

I wonder where they were based.

Were the troops in the Far East not held by the Japanese as POWs?

Christopher
Title: Re: Religious/Political Organisations
Post by: leprechaun on Saturday 05 July 08 11:36 BST (UK)
Hi Christopher,There was a Lodge formed in the Far East in 1916.
              There are Orange jurisdictions in Ghana and Togo in West Africa as well as Ireland,England, Scotland,Cananda,U.S.A. New Zealand,and Australia.Membership is in excess of 300,000.
    As far as I can make out it all appeared to stem from the Battle of Diamond in 1795.
    Christopher there is a very good site that can answer it seems all aspects of war.Don't know if you have been on it,the site is well run and sensible.I have been on it as a guest.Just google. great war forum. Interesting.
                                       Lep.
Title: Re: Religious/Political Organisations
Post by: spof on Saturday 05 July 08 19:37 BST (UK)


I wonder where they were based.

Were the troops in the Far East not held by the Japanese as POWs?

Christopher

Christopher

The Burma campaign carried on after the fall of Singapore and Malaya etc and (I'm guessing here) the main rear area would have been India.

Glen
Title: Re: Religious/Political Organisations
Post by: TF13 on Sunday 06 July 08 11:24 BST (UK)
hi half pint, 
 if you contact the grand lodge of ireland they will probably be more than happy to help you.

leprechaun, i remember hearing somewhere the soldiers from the ulster regiments put their sashes on before going over the top in the battle of the somme[ww1].
 and funnily enough its today that the orange lodges are marching to commemerate the battle of the somme!
 i guess thats why its in my head ::)
Title: Re: Religious/Political Organisations
Post by: meppy on Tuesday 19 August 08 21:21 BST (UK)
I have just read all this info and wonder if anyone can direct me to a good research site or guide me where to look, my gt uncle(whom I never met) fought in WWI with ? 36th(ULSTER) division of the Irish Rangers(he was shell shocked in the war) and I have been told last night that he was an Orangeman. He was born in Derriaghy in 1885 and was called Robert Waring Orr
Meppy
Title: Re: Religious/Political Organisations
Post by: fmni on Wednesday 01 October 08 11:34 BST (UK)
I have just read all this info and wonder if anyone can direct me to a good research site or guide me where to look, my gt uncle(whom I never met) fought in WWI with ? 36th(ULSTER) division of the Irish Rangers(he was shell shocked in the war) and I have been told last night that he was an Orangeman. He was born in Derriaghy in 1885 and was called Robert Waring Orr
Meppy

Meppy - i may be able to help you out here. I am the current Worshipful Master of Derriaghy L.O.L. 135 - and I believe the name Waring is a familiar name within the history of the lodge and district of Derriaghy. If your Robert Waring Orr did indeed join the Orange in the Derriaghy area and served in the first world war I should be able to come across a record of his Orange links and which lodge he was indeed a member of. Unfortunately minute books and registers for my own particular lodge are not in my hands, and even more unfortunate is that their whereabouts are unknown. District wise, I will get in touch with the District Secretary and Orange Historians from the area to see if we can dig something up for you.

Regards,
Mark
Title: Re: Religious/Political Organisations
Post by: fmni on Wednesday 08 October 08 15:14 BST (UK)
Meppy - do you know much about your family's origins in Derriaghy - I have only skimmed the surface but I found references to a 'Robert Waring' involved in the Orange locally as far back as 1823 - I would assume this Waring is related to your Robert Waring.

I also have an old lodge photograph from the mid 1930s as well - im 90% sure there are 'Warings' in that photo - I will dig it out this evening and post it tomorrow.