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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Lynn H on Thursday 27 September 07 09:30 BST (UK)
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On watching the news the other day i was horrified at the amount of churches being destroyed or sold because they are not being used. I don't know if other people will agree with me but i think that our churches could be used to benifit all the people who are into genealogy and family history, because after all this is where it all starts. They showed a church that had been divided into two parts, at the rear of the church was an area for community use with computers in it. Why can't all the small churches be transformed like this and charge a small fee for the use of it. This would mean that our churches would be open when people want to access the registers without making an appointment, because as you know it is very hard to get into them as they are locked all the time. Im sure that they could get lots of volenteers to help. This is just one way to SAVE OUR CHURCHES!!!! Thanx for taking the time to read this Lynn H.
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A few years ago we visited a former church in Scotland which had been converted to a shop for local crafts and tea room. It was really lovely and I think the building was used as a local community centre.
P.S. on the same visit saw one which was now a furniture store and while it was better than tearing down the building it did seem rather sad.
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I have to agree Lynn - if only to benefit those who still want to be baptised, married or have their funeral held there! :-\
Not forgetting all those people who still choose to worship .. ..
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How many thousands of pounds are you willing to contribute to allow this to happen? It is very well being sentimental about old churches the problem is quite simply that someone needs to pay for their upkeep. In most cases charging a small fee would not be sufficient to maintain them.
David
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How many thousands of pounds are you willing to contribute to allow this to happen? It is very well being sentimental about old churches the problem is quite simply that someone needs to pay for their upkeep. In most cases charging a small fee would not be sufficient to maintain them.
David
I donate to our local church every year .. .. as do many others.
Thankfully it is quite well attended, but I shouldn't think for one minute that will last forever!
As people get older .. .. attendances get fewer! :-\
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Well, I like the idea. I'm fed up with bits of our heritage been constantly chipped away and beautiful old buildings being replaced with modern ugly boxes. I look at photos of the town I live in from 100 years ago and its virtually unrecognisable. :(
If they were community run projects, the money could be raised from activities held there (exercise classes, coffee mornings, tea dances, party hire, play groups, etc) and council taxes, etc, most people would prefer our money to be spent on a place that would benefit the whole community, I'm sure, than some of the things our councils come up with to spend our money on!
And if they were private ventures like tearooms/crafts centres, they'd run at a profit and make enough money to maintain the building, the same as they would have to if they were based in any other building
The only good thing they've done in my town is convert an old church into an arts centre and cafe. Its working very well I believe, so these things can be done if the councils really want to..... (the trouble is I think they see pound signs at the thought of selling them off to developers to convert into rabbit hutch houses)
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I guess at least the registers will be given to the County Records Office if churches are de-consecrated.
I agree that it is very sad when churches are closed, but if the congregation becomes so small that the church is unsustainable, there is little alternative. :( :(
MarieC
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i didn't realise until recently that they could sell the churches off, i don't think they are allowed to demolish them are they just convert them all the same its not the same as being a church is it.
and graveyards i didnt realise that some had been 'coverted' into car parks or building plots.
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Graveyards - I think that is even worse because those are our ancestors lying there and they will be lost to us forever!! :'( :'(
MarieC
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"If they were community run projects, the money could be raised from activities held there (exercise classes, coffee mornings, tea dances, party hire, play groups, "
many of our local churches have to boost their income by holding classes., play groups, party hire etc and these classes are very often run by volunteers, so i don't think a place could be sustained by these activities alone
The churches /chapels in the locality of my youth have all except one had a change of use - one is a light fitting warehouse (for past 20 years) one has been demolished and a tyre fitting place built on the site (30+ years ago)-one is now residential accomodation (10years) and a beautiful old village church close to me was demolished 30 years ago and a modern hall built in its place, which is still used for worshipping, but also as the village school hall, and is available for hire-the floor is marked out as a badminton court!
On the other hand, there is a village quite close to me where the church "own" most of the village - the church is still thriving, it has bought the local post office and general store (which is run by church members), has its own nursery, alms houses, and several houses in the village.
Suz
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It is always sad to see churches closed. But being realistic, it can cost (heating, insurance, maintainence) many thousands per year to even keep the smallest village church open. Our local church is a mile out of the village centre (the village moved from around it at the time of the black death !). So although it is used and well attended for marriages and funerals, it is sparsely attended on Sundays by the 'faithful' ... who are getting older. If we are practicing Christians, we should in theory tithe a percentage of our annual income to the church ... I think 5% is the suggested amount. But 5% of the pension of OAP's who still attend isn't enough to pay the tens of thousands a church has to find every year; hence all those coffee mornings, church fete's etc. The clergy aren't paid out of what is put in the plate on a Sunday ... they receive a stipend from the Diocese, and for that, have to minister in several churches in widely separated parishes. (I am talking country parishes here). Where do the dioceses get the money to pay the clergy ? Each parish has to pay a 'parish share' into the coffers .... so add that to the insurance, heating, repair costs !
So when you visit a well-known cathedral, don't be aghast when you see the notices about how much it costs to keep the place open to the public ... dig deep into your pockets, and pay up ! Small rural churches are quite a different kettle of fish. Many have to be kept locked (very sad) but if they are open when you visit to find your ancestors graves, then be generous and put money made of paper into the box on the wall ... a few pennies are just an insult to the unseen faithful who clean the church, do the flowers, cut the grass ...
When it comes to using churches for other purposes, yes, this is an excellent idea in towns ... I cite All Saints in Hereford as a good example of multi-useage .... they have converted a side chapel into an exhibition room for hire by outside persons; there is a vegetarian cafe (run as a business by others) at the back of the church; there are loo's ... and the main body of the church is still in use as a worship space. But this sort of thing can't be financed by the average small parish .... the cafe at All Saints was the turning point for that church, in that the church benefits from the rent.
So its a good idea for churches to be multi-purpose these days ... and even multi-faith ... but don't forget that like most things these days, it all comes down to MONEY !
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Son number one lives in a converted church in Scotland; no graveyard around it though. His is the third family to live there and 2 beautiful stained glass windows are still there for all to enjoy.
Nanny Jan
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Some friends in Holland go to a church where the congregation voted to demolish it and build flats for the elderly and vulnerable others. They built a new church, meeting rooms, cafe etc adjacent. They all share a communal garden. It was a very succesful project, and boosted the congregation.
meles
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One problem Meles, is that many, many old country churches, and quite a lot of the town ones, are Grade 1 or Grade 2 listed buildings, so can't be demolished, or altered ....
Listing can be a double edged sword ... preserving ancient buildings, but also preventing any sort of alterations for modern useage. All Saints in Hereford managed it with the cafe, by building it as a sort of separate building inside the church, complete with extra seating upstairs .... nothing attached to the ancient walls !
Anyone going near Hereford ... GO AND SEE IT ! The food is excellent (and no, I'm not a share-holder !)
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Thank you Lydart for summing up so well what I would like to say. The cost of maintaining the services and fabric of a grade 1 listed building are huge for a small congregation. Church of England congregations (as the Established Church) pay to keep the church open for everyone to have the right to use them.
I am a churchwarden of our parish (population 500) church and we are currently altering all the seating to make the building more suitable for community use inclucing the village school to have a place for PE, drama etc. We need to make sure that we retain the prime purpose of the church for worship.
As a church council we are determined that our building should be open during each day so that those who wish can use it for private or learn about their forbears!
Ellen
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If suitable alternative uses cannot be found, the remaining outcomes are either preservation or demolition.
Lists (by diocese) of redundant church buildings whose futures have been settled as at April 2006 See Redundant Churches Division
http://www.cofe.anglican.org/about/churchcommissioners/redchurches
Stan
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Son number one lives in a converted church in Scotland; no graveyard around it though. His is the third family to live there and 2 beautiful stained glass windows are still there for all to enjoy.
Nanny Jan
does he get anyone knocking on his door asking to see where his relatives were married etc?
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In our small town the local Anglican and United Churches decided to combine churches as it was not affordable for them to each keep their church... So the United church sold their building and it was turned into a furniture store but they kept the building instead of knocking it down and the Anglican church knocked down their old wooden church and the two churches build a really nice church. Which they both use, one week the service is the Anglican service and the next week it is the United service... Must say it is working out great..
Cheers
Anne
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Toni,
My son hasn't had anyone knocking on the door; before it became a home the church had been used as a furniture store I think so i guess it was 30/40 years since anyone married there.
Nanny Jan
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I am very pleased that so many people are in favor of saving are churches, the responce has been great. I also found out where my GGGGrandmother was buried and when i went to see the grave, it had been paved over, So, Where is she now???? Thanx Lynn H.
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As a person who takes Communion twice a week, every week; obviously I am all in favour of saving our Churches.
Also obviously, I'd like to encourage those who feel strongly about Church preservation to take direct action by actually attending Church and preventing these closures occurring in the first place.
Jesus saves people AND Churches! ;) ;D
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Good point Ludovica
If the churches were full, they couldn't be closed. ::)
I'verecently started attending a church that was once used for another purpose (just for a change) it was once the town State Hall and now a growing and thriving evangelical church. Makes a pleasant change :)
Kerry
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Hear hear Ludovica!
Ellen
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Good point Ludovica
If the churches were full, they couldn't be closed. ::)
I'verecently started attending a church that was once used for another purpose (just for a change) it was once the town State Hall and now a growing and thriving evangelical church. Makes a pleasant change :)
Kerry
That is good news KerryB
I am a former atheist who has been led to Christ partly by the inspiration of learning about my ancestors and the incredible forbearance, patience and courage they displayed in their day to day lives- just to carry on, through infant mortality, terrible poverty and living/working conditions almost beyond our imagining.
Church closures cut us off from our spiritual history; making an island of the present day which prevents us from seeing the past; understanding progress( or lack of it) or empathising with our predecessors
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Ludovica
What has amazed and pleased me is finding out that so many of my ancestors were non conformists for so many generations and the faith has carried on through the generations right to the present and the next one through my nieces and nephews, like a genetic trait :)
Kerry
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What an interesting thread!
I visited Stoneykirk, Wigtownshire, churchyard earlier this year to search for monumental inscriptions. There was a very large Victorian (I think) church in the centre of the churchyard which was completely boarded up. I thought it such a pity when you see all the headstones around about. I must say though that the churchyard had been beautifully trimmed and looked after. It seemed to me that Stoneykirk appeared to be a fairly well inhabited village/town with considerable new housing in places.
I noticed on a recent trip to Swansea that an old chapel/church had been converted into a Mosque so I suppose that building is still serving a community nearby.
I often wonder what it would be like to live in an old converted church. I think it would be spooky but my sister-in-law (a staunch Baptist) says she would feel very safe in such a home.
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I think it wouldn't be spooky at all ! After all, an old church has seen people being baptised, worshipping every week and singing praise and happy hymns, marriages .... and only a small number of funerals compared to the other things. And even a funeral can be a happy occasion.
I wouldn't mind living in a church, but would prefer it to be left as a church with people using it !
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I've declared war on my local church (Church of Scotland).
I had an eye opener when the last minister (who did the church alot of good) was basically forced out by his Elders (session).
After he went, they were all keen to get their slice of the duty to exaggerate their own importance. The all voted in their little groups of friends to ensure that they got their own way and to hell with everyone else!
Now they are up a certain creek and lacking a vital piece of boating equipment.
The committee which was elected to choose a new minister (elected by popularity) has failed miserably after 3/4 years of searching. With the lack of a minister, income is decreasing rapidly. The ageing comgregation is becoming less and less. The church youth is nothing but hypocritical. The worst kind of sinners during the week, but saints on Sunday mornings.
I used to attend church every Sunday, but now I'm an athiest. I haven't attended church by choice for over a year and a half now. I'm still connected to the BB's through loyalty to friends (as an Officer). On the occassional Sunday (about twice a year) I'm required in church I don't sing their songs, I don't do their prayers, and I refuse to give them any of my money.
All in all, it is fair to say that church with its scores of hypocrites has well and truely pissed me off.
I'm having a good laugh watching the sides of that church fall in all because of the power hungry, self obsesses and self promoting 'Sunday Christians' inside. My mother is an Elder of that Church and so I am privy to many secrets. Basically, they are doomed!
(PS. I'm sure that everything I have stated is particular to this one church. Please don't be offended if you are a proper Christian).
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If you think the people who go to church are hypocrites there is usually room for plenty more!!
Ellen
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Toni,
My son hasn't had anyone knocking on the door; before it became a home the church had been used as a furniture store I think so i guess it was 30/40 years since anyone married there.
Nanny Jan
Hi
yes but we are researching our history from way back and we visit the churches where they were christened , married etc don't we or is that just me?
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Hi Toni, I am one of the one's that love to go to the old churches, thats why i started this thread. I use the internet to find the info that i need and then i go and visit the church to photograph it. It just brings my research closer to me. There's nothing nicer than acctually seeing the documents you have found. Lynn H.
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glad i'm not alone then!
they are having a beetle drive at my local church next weekend i think, any funds raised go to the church, i would like to go but i don't know what a beetle drive is!
my family aunts uncles nan etc still go to church regulalry but after sunday school i stopped going, caught up in the whirlwind of work kids sleep etc. my children don't go to sunday school but they have asked to a couple of times but they play football on a sunday morning and also go swimming so its a choice betweent them and the church the sports win all the time.
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If you think the people who go to church are hypocrites there is usually room for plenty more!!
Ellen
I speak soley of the Church I used to attend. I feel less of a hypocrite for becoming 'enlightened'.
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Toni,
If you google "beetle drive" you will learn that it is a very basic game to entertain people easily for an evening, no complicated rules or elaborate equipment are required.
When I was a child the PTA used to have beetle drives for parents, ( mostly the mothers attended. ) I am not sure if it was a social outing for busy, housebound Mums or if it was a money maker but it was certainly an activity which was offered over a period of a number of years when there was little money and few facilities for entertainment.
It would be a bit of research into the past to attend one for an evening.
Beth
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my children don't go to sunday school but they have asked to a couple of times but they play football on a sunday morning and also go swimming so its a choice betweent them and the church the sports win all the time.
I can fully understand why toni - far more enjoyable than going to Sunday School and in these days, healthwise far better for them!
But .. .. we had the same problem when my son was younger, all the children were involved in other activities on a Sunday morning.
So it was decided to move Sunday School to a Wednesday - run it after school, give it a fresh approach and rename it .. .. The Wednesday Club!
It worked - same format but the place was packed with children from all denominations - who were actually quite eager to attend! :)
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We used to have one of those where I lived ... it was called Monday Church ... and it had lots of children and some mums attending ... then it was moved for some reason to Sunday in the village hall ... that was it ! It wound up within 6 months.
In my experience, the people with most skill at closing churches are the 'church' themselves (by which I mean the church-goers) ... and once they've done it, and its too late, they realise what they have lost ...
Sad, sad, sad ... and with some lateral thinking, it need not be like that.
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Hi, since this topic is getting a lot of attention i have submitted an e-petition with No 10 and am waiting for approval. If you think this is a worthwhile cause then when it is posted PLEASE sign it. Thanks Lynn H.
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Surely saving our Churches is down to Church Authorities themselves, not Government?
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One branch of my family tree are from Norfolk, around the Swaffham area. The ministry of defence closed of the area of four of the churches in that area, and used it as a training area during ww2. I don't know if I will ever get to that area to do research, but apparently you have to give notice when you want to visit the churches because there is far too much unexploded amunition. Another church in the area at Great Cressingham doesn't get a very good report on the site
www.norfolkchurches.co.uk (sorry, I don't know how to attach links!!)
The person who has the site visited the church, and found it bolted, and nobody about. Many of my relatives were baptised there, so I am hoping that it will be still there when I can manage to visit the area, and hasn't been pulled down or turned into a factory warehouse.
A church in the next town to me in Cumbria is now hiring out rooms out for various reasons. I recently did a "Teamteach" course there, which included walking around doing warm-up exercises before we started. Downstairs in the church, there was a funeral going on at the same time. We were walking around doing our exercises to funeral music. Saying that, the church is magnificent, and should be applauded for showing enterprise in keeping things going.
I haven't been a church-goer for a few years, but did take my own children until they were old enough to make up their own minds about going. I was forced to go, and resented it. Maybe in the future my children will go back because they weren't forced.
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Hi All, Just to let you know that my petition to "SAVE OUR CHURCHES". has been accepted and is listed under the heading of Life In The Community. I do hope that some of you feel as strongly about this as i do, and will help me to try and make a differance. Thankyou so much. Lynn H :D
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What really brought a smile to my face some years ago was when Songs of Praise did a progamme at my local church. For this occasion the church was absolutely packed to the gunnels with people who before and since the programme was made have infrequently, if at all, attended church ceremonies. I was sitting at home pointing out all the people I knew and laughing (terribly cynical I know!) "Oh there's so and so, what she doing there she's usually in the pub on Sundays". ;D Jayson
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Hi All, Just to let you know that my petition to "SAVE OUR CHURCHES". has been accepted and is listed under the heading of Life In The Community. I do hope that some of you feel as strongly about this as i do, and will help me to try and make a differance. Thankyou so much. Lynn H :D
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why don't you paste a link on here.
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Hi Toni, I would if i knew how. ???? Lynn H.
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Try http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Parishes/ :)
Stan
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Thanx Stan, I hate to admit it but i'm computer illiterate. ::)
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Try http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Parishes/ :)
Stan
Just a reminder that the E-Petition is now in place and is ready for lots of signiatures. Thanx Lynn.
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well Aberdeen has more churches converted into nightclubs and bars than any other place in the country...im not religious but i think its very sad and would love to help save them
Alison
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Try http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Parishes/ :)
Stan
Just a reminder that the E-Petition is now in place and is ready for lots of signiatures. Thanx Lynn.
duly signed
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:D Thanx. Lynn H.
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Hi All
Lynn H - signed and delivered! ;D
The tiny village church St David's Eryrys, Flintshire, where I was christened, my parents married, my grandparents are buried etc etc....we almost fill the tiny churchyard!! ;D was built in 1863, closed and turned into a thriving community centre in the mid 1990s my grandfather was the churchwarden as was his father and my great uncle still cuts the grass and does the general housekeeping.....
.....and "the" pub next to it houses the Post Office ;D
Sarah :)
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Good Morning,
Try http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Parishes/ :)
Stan
Good Morning.
I just thought i would bring this back into focus as there seems to be new intrest in the topic.
Thanx Lynn H. Thanx
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Afternoon Lynn
Petition signed.
Kerry
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Good Morning To All. ;D
Thankyou from the bottom of my heart, to all who signed my petition. We have til the end of October 2008 to try to make a difference. So please keep up the good work.
Thanx again Lynn.
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Did anyone see BBC 1 News this morning?
"German church rolled to new home"
It shows how some people respect thing sacred. I thought it was a nice thing that they did.
Have a look.
Lynn.
P.S. Sorry i still havn't learned how to post links. ??? ???
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Hi, Just thought i would put a little reminder of my E-Petition to save our churches and graveyards as this topic seems to have been rekindled.
Thankyou
Lynn
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Parishes/ :)
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You must appreciate that the congregations of England, whether they be Anglican, Roman Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, or URC face the day by day challenge of maintaining a substantial section of the nation's built heritage. They do not get the level of state aid offered by other European countries. The Church of England's repair bill is something like £80 million a year, of which only some £30 million is reimbursed through grants from the state, but the costs are spiralling and grant aid seems to be reducing. Remember that the parish churches are financed through the giving of their diminishing congregations, both for the stipends of the clergy and the upkeep of the grounds and buildings.
Stan
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I agree Stan. And those who bought graves did not do so in perpetuity. It's sad the material things deteriorate, but surely the intangible things are not troubled by this?
meles
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Agreed, Stan and Meles.
Then small rural churches often commit themselves, rightly so, to supporting charities ... more money to be raised, but it goes elsewhere, often overseas to the third world ... our church, for e.g. is coming to the end of a 6 year committment to a school in Uganda.
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You must appreciate that the congregations of England, whether they be Anglican, Roman Catholic, Methodist, Baptist, or URC face the day by day challenge of maintaining a substantial section of the nation's built heritage.
Well said! The church in our small village is Grade 1 Listed, and our congregation is largely responsible for its upkeep. The heating system is antiquated, and visitors constantly complain about how cold it is........we have managed through our own efforts to raise a substantial sum to upgrade it.
We raise and pay out a considerable amount of money to keep the church in good repair for people to come and look at. We have a lot of visitors: few bother to put any money in the offering box, but, I think, always expect the church to be open and in good order when they visit.
We have a commitment to contribute to charity each year, and also have a very considerable Parish Share to pay to the Diocese.
So if you feel strongly about keeping our churches open then please attend and/or contribute handsomely because this is the only way they will stay open.
All Saints in Hereford managed it with the cafe, by building it as a sort of separate building inside the church, complete with extra seating upstairs .... nothing attached to the ancient walls !
Anyone going near Hereford ... GO AND SEE IT ! The food is excellent (and no, I'm not a share-holder !)
I must agree, All Saints is an excellent example of dual use of a church. And the food is indeed extremely good. ;)
Jennifer
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Try http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Parishes/ :)
Stan
Just a reminder that the E-Petition is now in place and is ready for lots of signiatures. Thanx Lynn.
May residents of NI sign this petition or is it restricted to residents of GB ???
Will the Churches mind if I've saved a petition to save a pub ???
Christopher
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Sorry Christopher, you must be a british citizen or an expat.
Lynn
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Sorry Christopher, you must be a british citizen or an expat.
Lynn
Hi Lynn
Where do you think Northern Ireland is located ??? This part of Ireland has been governed by the British parliament for many years. At one time the Ulster Unionist party was closely affiliated to the Conservative Party and Lord Trimble, a former NI Prime Minister, is a Conservativer Peer. NI is part of the United Kingdom which makes me a British citizen. I don't hold an Irish passport. Are there first class and second class British citizens?
Christopher
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How stupid of me :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[ :-[
I don't know where my head was but it wasn't "with me"
Please do except my appologies, and you can consider me well and truely embarrassed and feeling rather foolish.
Again Sorry,
Lynn,
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Hi Lynn,
Don't worry ... it always surprises me how many people on the mainland know so little about their Bristish Isles offshore neighbours.
Christopher
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Ooooo Lynn ! Foot in mouth time !
Christopher ... you and I have to be tolerant of those who don't live on the Celtic fringes like thee and me !
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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Foot well and truely in gob. ;D ;D ;D ;D
Lynn.
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Only teasing Lynn; I used to live in North Manchester, so also could be said to come from 'oop ther' !
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I'm over the sheugh 8) Tony Reidy of Co. Mayo sings a great song called "If this is progress" in which the chorus is "and if this is progress I'll stand in the way." www.myspace.com/tonyreidy As one of my MySpace friends says Tony's song could be an anthem for causes like this.
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Great song.
If this is progress i'll stand in line beside you.
Lynn.
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Great song.
If this is progress i'll stand in line beside you.
Lynn.
It's slow progress at the moment Lynn. I posted on a few other sites where the members are showing some interest. One person asked about signing with their user name rather than their own name and another was worried about including their address.
Christopher
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Hi Christopher,
Its good that people are getting interested, It doesn't matter how they want to sign, if it's accepeted thats great.
Lynn.
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Lynn,
I hope it's OK to put the link to the petition at the foot of my messages.
Christopher
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Thankyou ;D ;D
Thats a good idea.
I guess this means that you have forgiven me for putting my foot in gob.
Lynn.
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This is what can happen when a church/chapel is de-consecrated and sold:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~cawthorn/Church&Chapel/Clearance/index.html
Ann
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How dreadful! >:(
Jayson
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That is just heartbreaking!!!! It shouldn't be allowed to happen. I feel so strongly about this and i feel so useless because i don't have the power to change things, Together we may be able to make a difference.
Lynn.
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Come on RootsChatters. So far thirty two people have signed the Petition to Save our Churches. I know a couple who signed spotted the petition on other websites. Please sign this petition. The Churches and our heritage need your support. It's not progress to knock down all church buildings in sight and replace them with apartment blocks or supermarkets. The heart is being torn from many rural communities. A church building can be used by community groups. It can also be shared by other denominations if the congregation is shrinking.
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I've been looking at the website of The Churches Conservation Trust (http://www.visitchurches.org.uk) (previously the Redundant Churches Fund). This is the leading body conserving England's most beautiful and historic churches which are no longer needed for regular worship. It promotes public enjoyment of these churches, and encourages their use as an educational and community resource. I'm not certain if there are similar Trusts for other parts of the United Kingdom.
I'm interested in the feedback on some other websites where messages are being posted expressing the opinion that people are far more important tham buildings and are asking why a number of churches did not receive the same care and attention that one would give to one's own property. The posters say that they'd much rather support a children's charity or the starving in the third world than contribute to a building.
Christopher
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The posters say that they'd much rather support a children's charity or the starving in the third world than contribute to a building.
Christopher
Interesting when you think how much support the National Trust has!!
Ellen
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A BIG thankyou to all those who signed my petition, but we need more signatures to make a difference.
Thankyou.
Lynn.
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Better late than never - I've just seen this thread and signed.
good luck,
Rena
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Hi Lynn
Petition duly signed
Crystal
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Hi Lynn,
Are there hard copies of the petition as well as the online petition ???
Christopher
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Good Morning Christopher.
No i don't have any other ones circulating, being housebound it would be difficult for me to get them out there. It's a great idea and one that would also do some good.
Any help from anyone with this would be very much appreciated.
Thankyou.
Lynn.
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Hi Lynn,
I posted the link about the petition to my sister but have not received a comment from her ... if she's interested she may spread the word.
Click (http://www.britainexpress.com/History/english-parish-churches.htm) to see a short item about English Parish Churches. There's also a great site on Medieval Wall Painting in the English Parish Church. www.paintedchurch.org
I wonder how many churches there are in Britain and Ireland. It must be a large number. There are over three hundred and forty historic churches in the care of the Churches Conservation Trust. (http://www.visitchurches.org.uk)
Christopher
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Hi Christopher, Thankyou for the links and the article.
It is more heartbreaking then ever when you actually see like that, what is being destroyed :'( :'( :'(
The artwork is brilliant and should be preserved for future generations to come.
I do hope your sister will lend a helping hand.
Thanx Again for the Links.
Lynn.
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There are several organisations connected with saving Churches. One good example is the Devon Church Bell Restoration Fund (DCBRF) (http://www.groups.ex.ac.uk/gdr/DCBRF.html) which exists to help finance bell restoration work within Devon which has more church bells than any other county. Since its inception in 1972 the fund has helped around 200 Devon churches with grants totalling more that £85,000.
Click here (http://www.ibo.co.uk/IBO2005/services/fundingHelp.htm) for a list of Grant-offering Charities who may be willing to assist congregations considering a Church Organ Repair or Restoration Project. Berwick Parish Church (http://www.berwick-advertiser.co.uk/news/Restoration-will-give-church-one.3579596.jp) is having its pipe organ restored and this will leave the church with one of the finest instruments in north east England.
Ian Powys' page on the Isleham website describes the roof restoration (http://www.isleham-village.co.uk/andrews.php) which took place between May and March 2004 at Saint Andrew’s Church.
People across the Atlantic are also helping British Churches. American Friends of British Art (http://americanfriendsofbritishart.com/recent_projects.htm) is nonprofit charity dedicated to preserving and restoring historic art and architecture in Great Britain. This group was founded in 2003 and seeks to preserve all varieties of historic art including murals, paintings, sculptures, architecture and religious structures. One of their recent projects was St Mary's Church in Norfolk.
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It's mid April and there aren't many names on the Petition which Lynn kindly started.
If developers knock down a few churches the congregations can always follow the
example of the Covenanters in the olden days and pray in fields.
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Hi Lynn,
I've only just come upon this thread.
Interesting views all round.
In response to the initial suggestions regarding making churches available to the community, I know of a church not far from me which was bought by two families of the congregation (one which lives in the village, and one head of the family works as a doctor in the village). The building is an old Roman Catholic church, about the size of a chapel. The two families didn't want the church to be changed into yet another warehouse, of something similar, so have spent money on converting it for the whole of the community to make use of - not only churches in the area. They broadcasted this on the local radio, etc, asking people to come forwarded with ideas of how the building can be used - no charges for rent for a certain period. (Nothing stipulated, or mentioned, about church involvement).
However, no groups/individuals have come forward, to my knowledge, and so a church committee has been set up to start things rolling - which hopefully will make the buidling useful to the community, and show that the church/churches wants to be more available and serve people in the community.
I do wonder if one of the problems is that life is just more complicated now - you can longer just have an idea and start something off, without a business plan or health and safety plans in place, etc for food provision. I myself have can think of ideas, but wouldn't have a clue about drawing up a business plan, etc.
Sadly, without more attending church, funds to keep them open dwindles. There may be some hypocrites in churches, but if those who hate this behaviour stay away, that will never change things - who wins?!!
I've signed the petition, but I don't think it is the only answer, sadly.
Kind regards,
Paulene :)
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I've just had a look at the website of Ottery St Mary Parich Church. There's a paragraph containing further information in the Heritage Section which says: "The cost of maintaining the church in its present condition is very high and constantly rising. Apart from occasional and specific grants towards restoration from English Heritage, no Government funds are received. We continue to be, therefore, heavily dependent on visitors. Please give what you can. Thank you." I'm certain that many other Parish Churches face the same problem in this day and age.
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I spotted the Save Britain's Heritage site in an article by Malcolm Roberts in the 2007 issue of "Your Family Tree" He mentioned that British officialdom is known to move slowly so that even an organisation such as Save can have problems dealing with the powers that be. It may be necessary to apply to the High Court for an injunction to save a building and it has been known for last minute phone calls to be made to contractors calling off their bulldozers at the last minute. www.savebritainsheritage.org/main.htm
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October's not that far away ... would a few more RootsChatters like to sign the Petition ... to date 68 have signed.
UK Population 60,776,238
People who have signed petition 68.
That leaves 60,776,170 people
Maybe that's aiming too high ...
RootsChat members 61188
There are still 61,120 members who haven't signed.
Christopher
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I've just had a look at the website of Ottery St Mary Parich Church. There's a paragraph containing further information in the Heritage Section which says: "The cost of maintaining the church in its present condition is very high and constantly rising. Apart from occasional and specific grants towards restoration from English Heritage, no Government funds are received. We continue to be, therefore, heavily dependent on visitors. Please give what you can. Thank you." I'm certain that many other Parish Churches face the same problem in this day and age.
The Church can easily afford to maintain these old buildings ... last time I looked at their Stocks and Shares Portfolio it was big enough to run a small African country. (and ran to a whole boxfull of 4 part paper ... )
Additionally they own most of Paddington and Bayswater amongst other large chunks of the Metropolis .... and I expect its similar thru the whole country ....