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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: RAYMAC on Saturday 22 September 07 19:23 BST (UK)
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HELP, HELP, HELP,
Can anyone find any McElwains before 1853.
I am stuck on my Great Grandfather who married Agnes Elizabeth Frew in 1853, He was a Tailor of Bloomsbury and she was a Tailoress
His Father's name was John, a Gardener
He married again (Bigamy?) in 1857 to Ann Pope
I have all the relatives listed from 1853 but would dearly love and desperately like to know where John was from and whether Alfred had any Brothers or Sisters
I have been trying for a year now, I am 71 and not at all expert with this new fangled technology.
I think the men in white coats will be coming to take me away soon , its driving me bonkers!!!!
The Old Geezer
Mac
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Hi Mac,
Do you have a copy of the marriage cert for 1857? How does he describe himself; bachelor or widower? Perhaps Agnes left him.
Do you know roughly when he was born? Can you find him on any census; does he give a place of birth?
Nanny Jan
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Hi Nanny Jan,
He was a Batchelor and his first wife Agnes Elizabeth was present at the death of the son William in 1858 so he definitely was not a widower
People tell me it was difficult to get divorces in those days, thats why I think that it could have been Bigamus..
Another thing is he disappeared to the 109th Regiment in India about 1858/9 as Alfred McDonald "Alias McElwain" his second & third Children to Ann Pope under this name but his 4th and 5th were under the name William McDonald.
He was back in the 1871 census still as William McDonald alledgedly born Edinburgh and still with the 109th Regt (he was Regimental Tailor)
In the 1881 census he was Alfred McElwain once more but it was mistranscribed as Meelwain
He died 1882 as Robert McElwain in the Brentford Union Workhouse infirmary at Isleworth, Middx.
Now you know why I said "The men in white coats"
Ying-tong-diddle-doo- bing-bong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They will be calling me MAD MAC
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Its me again,
In the 1881 census he states he was born in Liverpool but I cant find him anywhere
He may have been born any time between 1825 and 1834 but I have a feeling it was nearer 1834
I found a John McElwain married to Martha Aungier at St Peters, Church St Liverpool Jan 1828
and Alfred's secon daughter was called Martha but that is as close as I have got and nothing about them ever since
I also found a John & Martha MacElwain baptised a son William in Manchester Cathedral 1831,
I found it on the net somewhere and have not been able to re-find it since, again no sign of them since..
Mac
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Hi
Before anybody gets too involved in searching - it may help to read this link on the Liverpool FHS website to prevent any possible duplication of effort
The McElwain post runs to 16 pages so you will have to decide for yourself!!
http://www.liverpool-genealogy.org.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3010
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Hello all,
I'm afraid you can't read the Liverpool forum thread because it has been lost.
the whole past forum is gone, including the 16 pages on McElwains
I put the request on here because in spite of the help from all the lovely people on the Liverpool site nobody has been able to get over my brick wall and so I was hoping that new helpers involved with London/Middlesex researches, Parish Records Etc. might re-kick start new info that would help me.
Mac
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Sorry folks,
Have just clicked on the link above and found you can still get it on here but not on the Liverpool site.
Mac
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Hi
Just found this thread and have hit the same brick wall in my family tree...
Alfred McElwain Jnr being my g.g.grandfather....before I dive into this a little more, wanted to know what info everyone has so far.
So far, I have not got past 1853 although I did not that the witness to the Agnes Frew wedding Elizabeth Dear was living at 6 Brownlow St in the 1851 Census and an Agnes Drew was living at 34 Brownlow St....
Mark
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Hi Mark,
What do do you want to know about the McElwains of our Line
Alfred McElwain (my Great Grandfather) Married in 1853 and again in 1857 (Bigamy?)
He then ran to India in the 109th Regiment as the Regimental Tailor (corporal), from 1858 to 1881
BUT, he was using the name Alfred McDonald alias McElwain until 1865 and then changed it to William McDonald, My Grandfather William was the last to be born on India in 1870
Get in touch and we can compare notes, I think his father John was married in Liverpool 1828 and I think the same John had a son baptised in Manchester Cathedral, William in 1831, this child may have been Alfred, there are various things that seem to bear this out
Mac
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Sorry service in India 1858 to 1871, not 1881 mistyped
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Sorry again Mark,
I see I have repeated myself
I really should have looked back to see what I have said on this Forum before
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Hi Mac
Thanks for the reply.
I have some discharge papers for a William McDonald which seem to be his...109th regiment in India between 1858 and 1870, Tailor etc... I also have the baptisms for three of the children born in India, including my g.g.grandfather Alfred William McElwain.
Alfred married Sarah Mash and their daughter Ellen May (Nellie May) was my g.grandmother who married Herbert Dennington.
She has a daughter who is still alive and I am in touch with, so I am going to see if she has any recollections of Alfred Jnr or any family records !
I also want to go to Kew and the British Library to see what further military records on Alfred Snr/William McDonald but wanted to check what you had already.
I was aware of the John McElwain-Martha Aungier marriage in St Peters Liverpool and the baptism in Manchester but like you have found no trace of Alfred, John or Martha in the 1851 census.
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The John and Martha wedding seems a probable link
In Scottish and Celtic the first son usually had the fathers name, the first son was born of the first marriage of Alfred/William named William Alexander. The second Daughter was named after the Grandmother, Martha,
Alfred,s first daughter was named Georgina, I haven't been able to check what Martha's mother's name was but it would tie in if it was that, also the name William came up with my Grandfather and my Father Alfred Willam.
Having married in Liverpool, it seems likely that John came over from Northen Ireland But William/alfred says he was born in Edinburgh in the 1871 census but Liverpool in the 1881
I was an honorary member of the Scottish Tartans Association and the McElwains were a Sept (family under the protection of) of the Clan McBain/Bean who were also members of the Clan Chatton and the fought the English at Culloden one of whom slew 16 English before they killed him, there is a memorial to him on the battlefield, the clan lost all of their lands which were around Dorres on the east bank of Loch Ness.
The McElwains went south and many of them finished up along the Ayrshire coast in the 1600's
They disappeared from there in the 1700's and turned up in N.I.
If you google McBain Clan you will see the McElwains are listed as members of the Clan
The Clan Chief lives in Houston Texas
I went to the Inda office at British Library and found Alfred alias McDonald and Three of their children in the Regimental Chaplains files, I ran out of time before I found Joseph and my Grandfather William
I have written everything down in my Family History Book, I also have the History of the 109th Regiment for the time Alfred was in India
I live in Malton, North Yorkshire, if you are anywhere close any time get in touch on here and we can meet
Do you have the "Mash photos" ??
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Getting back to the census records
It may be because there was so much bad spelling they may be there as someone else
1891 it was Meelwain, another year one of the Macs was Mcwhan another was Mack and Joseph and Sarah became McIlwaine with totally different christian names
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I think we are looking for the needle in haystack with the census although there is also the possibility that they went back to Ireland or got missed from the census altogether.
The discharge papers I have for William McDonald of the 109th state he was born in St James Parish in Edinburgh but this could be him maintaining his army persona.
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