RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: Hutchin_Graham on Thursday 20 September 07 16:43 BST (UK)
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Hi folks,
can anybody please assist me in tracing a Clara Jane Currey/Currie born c.1848 in Meadminster Bristol? She may even be listed as Jane A Currey/Currie , as her name seems to change at more than one point. She apparently married Philip Ennis in Liverpool and had a daughter Emily Caroline, in 1870.
She is CLARA JANE Ennis, formerly Currey on Emily's Birth cert. Husband is Philip Ennis. Later on a Liverpool Census she is listed as Clara Ennis of Bristol, relationship to John Corless, the Head,.....Daughter !!
I have found the marriage in Liverpool in 1865, of a Philip Ennis and Jane A Currie.
Bit of a puzzler, or what?
Hope someone can help me trace Jane A / Clara Jane,
Regards,
Steve
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in 1881 (I expect you must have this)
Clara and Emliy are in West Derby, no sign of Philip.
RG11 3703 71 30
49 Troughton Street
Clara Ennis 35 bn Bristol seamstrss married
Emliy Ennis 11 bn Liverpool
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Do you have the marriage cert of the Philip Ennis / JAne A Currie?
I cannot find that marriage on FreeBMD (maybe not there and I havent looked on full indexes) but I did see a Philip Ennis marriage in 1865 in that area, but the ladies names on the page did not include any Jane or Clara Currie
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I wonder if someone can check th eactual image of that 1881 census I gave to see if she is actually a widow.
There is the death of a Philip Ennis in West Derby reg area, in Jan/ feb/mar 1873 (born about 1843)
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Do you have the marriage cert of the Philip Ennis / JAne A Currie?
I cannot find that marriage on FreeBMD (maybe not there and I havent looked on full indexes) but I did see a Philip Ennis marriage in 1865 in that area, but the ladies names on the page did not include any Jane or Clara Currie
Hi, many thanks for the lightening response, you're a star ;D
No, I cannot find the marriage of Philip and Clara, but I am sending off for the marriage in 1865 in Walton, St. Mary,Liverpool, of Philip Ennis and Jane A Currie
I just hope it's Clara, but how will I know???
BFN,
Steve
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Thats what I mean, the 1865 Liverpool mariage I found on FreeBMD didnt have a Jane (or Clara) Currie as one of the ladies! but, as I said, maybe you have found a different one from the FULL indexes.
The census when you found her as daughter - any chance you could post the full transcription of that? Which one was it? Perhaps spmeone can have a closer look at the image - it may say Currie, not Corless. Clarifying her father's name and occupation will help confirm if you get the right marriage cert.
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Hi,
the Census was the 1871, for Gilling Street, Municipal Ward of South Toxteth. Liverpool.
John Corless 62 (Head) Widower, is listed as "No Occupation", Born Lancaster.
Clara Ennis is 23 Married and "Daur", Born Bristol.
"Eleanor" Ennis is 2 "Niece" Born Liverpool.
Why is Emily now Eleanor? and why, if Clara is "Daur", is "Eleanor" not Granddaughter?
On Emily Caroline Ennis' Birth Cert (1870) Beaufort Street, Toxteth Park.Liverpool,
Father, Philip Ennis is Steward of a Ship, so is probably away at Sea.
Clara Jane Ennis formerly Currey, Mother,
Can you make any sense of it? 'cause I can't ???
BFN,
Steve.
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Hi Steve
where do you get the date of birth and "meadminster" from?
No such place, as far as I know!?!
kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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I wonder if someone can check th eactual image of that 1881 census I gave to see if she is actually a widow.
There is the death of a Philip Ennis in West Derby reg area, in Jan/ feb/mar 1873 (born about 1843)
The census does say "Married" in 1881 - maybe he is at sea, as you suggested earlier?
A ;)
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Hi,
on the 1891 Census for Buckley Street, Edgeley, Stockport (my Town)
Clara Ennis is Head, Widow, age "42" from Gloucestershire, Meadminster, Bristol.
the transcription on Ancestry gives Meadmenster
I can only assume it should have read Bedminster.
Regards,
Steve
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Can we go back to the beginning? ;D
I take it Emily (Eleanor!?) is your ancestor?
Do you have her marriage certificate and can you please supply all the details, including witnesses?
How did you know you were looking for someone called Clara/ Jane in the first place?
I haven't been able to locate her, nor a CURREY family in earlier censuses within spitting distance of Bedminster!
Could do with some more clues please!
CURRY is not an an common name in Somerset, also variants such as CAREY. It is also fairly common in the Liverpool area, where "owners" tend to be Scots or Irish immigrants.
Hoping to help
A ;)
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See also http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=257260.new#new
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Looking at the other thread there are clearly two people (both found in 1871)
a Jane Ann Ennis, with parents Wiilaim and Helen Currie
and a Clara Ennis, possibly with father John Corless
The marriage for Jane Ann Currie (to a Philip Ennis) has been found (other thread clears up discrepancy)
The fly in the ointment seems to be Emily's birth cert, which gives mother as Clara nee Currey, and father as Philip
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Good summary Liz - thanks
The fly in the ointment seems to be Emily's birth cert, which gives mother as Clara nee Currey, and father as Philip
I wonder what address is given for the birth & who registered it?
It can be surprisingly helpful when this is near a census date, as people tend not to have had chance to run and hide, lol!
A ;)
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Thanks
And the Jane Ann says she was born Liverpool
And the Clara says she was born Bristol
And someone found Jane Ann's birth (Currie) in 1845 (on other thread) clearly W Derby reg area (incl Liverpool I believe)
so there arent as many mysteries as it appears.
just Emily's birth cert!!!
Moderators: any chance you can combine? Or lock other one and direst stuff here? I for one am gettnig confused!
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Other topic now locked, as requested.
Jane Ann can be found with her family in Walton on the Hill in 1851 - lots and lots of siblings, but no Clara.
I won't bother transcribing them as they seem not to be relevant?!?
A ;)
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But just to tie up the loose ends on Jane Ann, I was trying to find her in 1881,
but couldnt.
However, it seems likely she remarried as there is a marraige for a Jane Ann Ennis in Oc/Nov/Dec 1873 in W Derby reg area.
to James Jenkinson or George Cunningham
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Perhaps that is not her remarriage, as still cant find her in 1881 under either name!
but there are possible deaths for both between 1873 and 1881
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Hi again
How about this one?
RG11/3623/75/53
Jane JENKINSON serv Mar 33 - dom serv - Lanc Liverpool
Address: 43 Myrtle St, Mount Pleasant, Liverpool (home of the BOSE family)
A ;)
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Yes, a possibility! But only IF she married the James Jenkinson, if so where is he?
It could go on and on couldnt it?
One might even say we have got sidetracked!
Back to Clara
- nee Currey (as per Emily's birth cert), but no child Clara Currey found on censuses, or birth found as yet in FreeBMD
- married to Philip Ennis as per Emily's birth cert, but no marriage found as yet in FreeBMD
- married, but with father, surname Corless?? or similar in 1871
- married but on her own with Emily in 1881
- widowed in Stockport in 1891 (who else is in the household then?)
- consistantly born in Bristol
Questions that remain unanswered......
Was the Philip Ennis she 'married' the same one as Jane Ann married in 1865? Only Clara didnt actually marry him cos he was already married, she just took the name and pretended.
What was her surname at birth and in childhood?
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Well,
I tried to spare you all this, but here goes ( takes a deep breath).
My Stepson is an Ennis. His Grandfather was Douglas Knowles Ennis, Douglas' sister was Emily Irene Knowles Ennis, their father was Edward Knowles Ennis, Present day Ennis' say all Ennis' were Edgeley folk.
On Edward's birth Cert. Mother Emily Ennis, Father is blank.
On 1901 Census Mother Emily is Emily Knowles b 1872 LIVERPOOL, Father William Knowles, son is Edward Knowles. daughter Emily Irene Knowles.
It seems that Emily was not married to William, so children call themselves Knowles Ennis, when they grow up and marry etc.
(This cleared up an old Ennis family mystery, of why the name Knowles Ennis?.)
In tracing William Knowles, I found his father and his siblings in Edgeley in 1891 , living 2 doors away from CLARA ENNIS, b. Bristol, age 42, no family, just 2 lodgers.
In tracing a Clara Ennis possibly with a daughter Emily born 1870 Liverpool, there they were, in Liverpool. Clara b.Bristol
In tracing the birth of an Emily Ennis 1870 Liverpool, I found Emily Caroline Ennis, Father Philip Ennis, mother Clara Jane Ennis formerly Currey
And that's where things are at the present. ( with me and you totally confused)
BFN
Steve.
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Sorry, duplicate post corrected
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On Emily Caroline Ennis' Birth Cert (1870) Beaufort Street, Toxteth Park.Liverpool,
Father, Philip Ennis is Steward of a Ship, so is probably away at Sea.
Clara Jane Ennis formerly Currey, Mother,
Steve
Are you a 100% certain that the mothers maiden name is Currey?
Could it be bad writing and really say something else.
Jane Ann Ennis nee Currie is easily traceable,back to her parents of William and Helen so is not the same person as Clara. So we really need Clara to have a different maiden name ;D
If the writing is a bit iffey and you'd like a second...or third opinion,post a section of the cert on the Common Room board with a link to this post and see what other suggestions you get. ;D
All the best
Carol
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Also if Emily Caroline Ennis was born in the March 1/4 of 1870- how can she be the child age 2 on RG 10/3796, folio 141 page 3.
Head John Corless b 1809 in Lancashire.
She'd only just have been one- difficult to put her down as 2?
I'm not convinced the name even says Eleanor on that page,what do others think?
Carol
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Hi Steve
Thanks for posting all. that - at least we can follow your logic now. I think there is a problem - just can't see what it is, lol!
I agree with Carol's points - sight of the cert with CURREY would make believers of us (maybe!?!)
I have looked and looked! Let's hope someone has some inspiration...
A ;)
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Steve do you have the actual certificate ? if not - maybe the best thing to do - is post on the Lancashire board for somebody going to the RO !!
Emily Caroline Ennis 1870 J/F/M West Derby 8b 310
Annie :)
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Hi Folks,
yes, I do have the actual Certificate and will try to post it in the common room (haven't a clue how to do it though) also it may take a day or so to get access to my sister's Scanner. As for "Eleanor's " age, maybe Clara and the child were not at home when the Enumerator called and John Corless just guessed ??? but then why "Daughter" and "Niece"?
As for RG 10/3796, I must admit that the first letter looks nothing like an E to me, the "Ancestry" transcription said Eleanor but may be way off. However there remains the problem of where was 1 year old Emily?
I would put these all down to being totally different people, were it not for "Bristol". The trail from 1891 in Stockport, back to 1870 in Liverpool is founded on the Clara Ennis b. Bristol with a child Emily.
I must say I am really gratefull to you all for taking the time and trouble to help me, I myself am close to running out of ideas.
Best Regards,
Steve.
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However, it seems likely she remarried as there is a marriage for a Jane Ann Ennis in Oct/Nov/Dec 1873 in W Derby reg area.
to James Jenkinson or George Cunningham
There is a death for a Philip Ennis in West Derby for 1873 but if it was Jane's Philip, then she didn't let any grass grow under her feet. :o
BFN,
Steve.
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Hi,
is it at all possible that on the 1871 Census, the word " Niece " is referring to the relationship of Eleanor to Clara, and not of Eleanor to John Corless?, or were
the enumerators scrupulous about correct procedures? If it were possible, that could make Jane Currie and Clara Jane Currey Sisters. Or maybe I'm grasping at ever fewer straws ( two sisters marrying Philip Ennis's, what are the odds?) and where was Emily?
My brain hurts :'(
BFN,
Steve.
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Hi
This isn't going to help much but.......
1891
Clara Ennis married John Mainwaring
Stockport
Cheshire
J/F/M
V-8
P-72
1901
John Mainwaring b 1849 Northwich Cheshire
Clara do b 1849 Bristol
George do b 1887 Stockport
RG13/3292
F-127
P-17
1891
John Mainwaring is a widower living with young George and other children
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Hi Folks,
thanks for the info "Freddy", that's Bristol Clara again :)
If anyone "fancies a CURREY ", I've posted the section from Emily's Birth Cert
( containing the name formerly Curry) in the Common Room.
Please let me know that I'm not hallucinating, after all ;D
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,257763.msg1441426.html#msg1441426
BFN,
Steve.
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I think the John Corless might be a red herring. I've found him in 1861 and 1851, and, although he has several children, the only daughters in those years are Sarah and Ann.
1861 RG9/2678 folio 26 pg 5
1851 HO107/2181 folio 211 pg 56
:-\
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It might be worth asking if someone could check the ships' lists on Ancestry.com for you, for Philip Ennis, since crew are listed as well as passengers.
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Hi Gallium,
thanks for the advice,
if anyone could please check Ancestry for me, I would be very Grateful, especially if Philip Ennis is still alive in say 1880. That would mean that the Philip Ennis who died in 1873 was probably Jane A Currie's Hubby as she seems to have remarried in 1873.
Thanks Osprey for the info :), as for Corless being a "Red Herring", a right pain in the A** is what he is, why would he describe Clara Ennis formerly Currey as his Daughter?? ???
Many thanks again to all of you for your efforts on my behalf 8)
Bye for now,
Steve.
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the info that Freddy found is interesting - more evidence that Jane and Clara are clearly two different people.
Clara goes on to marry Mainwaring.
It could be a vital clue - getting that marriage cert SHOULD give Clara's father's name! And therefore should confirm if it is a) John Corless, b) Mr Currey c) A. N. Other
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Just thinknig aloud here -
If Emily when she grows up calls herself Knowles, even though she is actually Ennis, because she is livif with Mr Knowles, then it would not be surprising if her mum Called herself Ennis, even if she were actually Currey or Corless or something else. If she had a baby (Emily) by Philip Ennis, but he was actaully married to Jane nee Currie, but was living a sort of double wife (easy for a Mariner! "I'm off to sea for three months, dear," actaully 2 months at sea and a month at decond 'wifes'!) then she could have registered the bay as Ennis, as if they were married - no marriage cert would be asked for.
But why does she give maiden name as Currey - that of the REAL wife?
Who registers Emily's birth? It's not Philip is it - and he gets his women muddled?
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Liz
You've been reading too many Mills and Boon's recently :P
No seriously folks, I DO see where she' s coming from.
ie NEVER believe the word married on a census,it doesn't always mean they were,my own great grandparents included.They married when their oldest( of 10 kids) was 21 !!! ;D
See ya,
Carol
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Hi again folks,
I would agree with Liz that Clara's Marriage Certificate to John Mainwaring may clear up at least one of the mysteries, that of Clara's Birth name.
So that shall be my next step, I'll let you know the result when I receive it.
Kind Regards to you all,
Steve :)
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Mills & Boon indeed, Carol!!!!!! no, just many many years of family history research