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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: mahees on Wednesday 19 September 07 20:35 BST (UK)
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Hi all,
I have a family in the 1871 census : RG10, Piece: 3662, Folio: 62, Page 39
headed by Carmick Eagan, with wife Elizabeth and 3 stepchildren as well as a Niece, Elizabeth Reddington, whom I know to be my relative.
I have found the same family in 1861 RG9, Piece: 2560, Folio: 14, Page 22, with the children's father, Patrick.
I have been trying to fathom how this family are related to the Reddingtons, and I have come across a strange marriage record on www.cheshirebmd.org.uk
In the Stockport marriage records for 1866-1870, there is a record for an Elizabeth Redington marrying a William Wilkinson. When you click on her name, it says otherwise Gorgon. It can't be my Elizabeth Reddington as she is still Reddington in the 1871 census and unmarried.
Can anyone help me unravel how this marriage fits into the Gargan/Eagan/Reddington triangle, and indeed how they fit into my Reddingtons?
Thanks in anticipation
Erin :)
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Hi Erin,
Just to say that I think Mr Eagan's name is Cormick - looks like that anyway.
1861 RG9; Piece: 2561; Folio: 57; Page: 19
8 Rock Court Heaton Norris
John Raddington 38 yrs labourer b Ireland
Catherine wife 46 yrs b Ireland
Mary A Doyle daur 16 yrs cotton spinner b Stockport
Elizabeth Reddington daur 8 yrs b Stockport
(they are written as Raddington and Elizabeth as Reddington)
There is a marriage Reddington/ Doyle so that fits with this. As they are Irish as are Cormick and Elizabeth - hopefully there is the connection and I will look further.
best wishes
heywood
1851 has Mary A as Redington
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Thanks heywood,
I'm always terrible at reading the handwriting ::)
Thanks for transcribing Elizabeth on the 1861 census; I believe John is my 3x Great Grandmother's brother. I would be very interested to see if you could come up with anything especially as to what this marriage record is all about, because I think that's the key to finding a link between the Gargans and the Reddingtons.
Regards
Erin :)
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Have to confess I'm struggling a bit here - I wonder if it is worth getting the certificate for Wilkinson/ Reddington - just to eliminate.
The Gagans are entered variously e.g Gahagan and Gahagen but I am struggling to find a link between Gahagan/ Doyle/ Reddington.
I am trying various spellings and other name searches to no avail.
Will leave it there (much to my annoyance) until tomorrow.
best wishes
heywood
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Thanks for that, heywood,
I have tried finding an Elizabeth Wilkinson in 1871, and the only one I can find in the area is married to William N Wilkinson and was seemingly born in Manchester in the 1830s, which I can't tie in at all since my Reddingtons came over in the 1840s and have no connection to Manchester that I've found.
It's not like I can find a suitable Elizabeth Gargan in 1861 either.
Look forward to hearing if you can dig up any clues.
Regards
Erin :)
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Not sure if it is relevant - but on FreeBDM the marriage is March 1866 - Elizabeth GARGON and William WILKINSON - no mention of REDINGTON ???
Trish
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Thanks Trish,
I just checked and it's not mentioned on ancestry either. cheshirebmd must have got 'Redington' from somewhere though, I feel there must be a connection but I wish I could place it.
Regards
Erin :)
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Well, I've been working on it for the last 3 hours and I think I've had a bit of a breakthrough ;D
I did an IGI search with Batch number C024888 and surname Gahagan, and a record of one of the Gahagan children with mother's maiden name Reddington :) :) :)
That at least confirms the link between the Gargans and the Reddingtons. I'm wondering if Elizabeth married William Wilkinson in 1866 and had remarried to Cormick Eagan by 1871, her third marriage :P
That would explain things a bit more.
Erin :)
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I have just been reading this thread with interest and would like to say that I think you are all brilliant.
Then what would one expect from Rootschatters. :D :D :D
Christina
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Not sure if it is relevant - but on FreeBDM the marriage is March 1866 - Elizabeth GARGON and William WILKINSON - no mention of REDINGTON ???
Trish
It's Cheshire BMD that has the alternatives- Gorgon and Redington for ELizabeth and William Wilkinson : STR/16/190
So.. is Elizabeth Reddington the niece of Elizabeth Eagan/ Gahagan/ Reddington? (and not Cormick Eagan- that seems a safe bet at the moment).
And Erin do you think that the older Elizabeth is the sister or sister in law to John Reddington father of young Elizabeth?
The IGI batch number you gave has some Reddingtons on too but not ELizabeth.
As I said earlier it might be good to have that certificate of Wilkinson/Reddington to check useful details.
best wishes
heywood
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Hi heywood,
I think it's quite likely that Elizabeth is John's sister, which is the kind of connection I hoped to make between the two families.
I have used birth records from this batch before, notably with my Callaghans, and their mother's maiden name was Reddington, as is the case for Patrick Grahagan and Elizabeth Reddington.
I ideally want to avoid purchasing a certificate for this, as it's not my direct line, and I allow myself one certificate a month (a quota already filled for September ;D ) but I don't think there's any other way to say for 100% certain it's her. I am pretty convinced though, because, like you said, there's no other Elizabeth Grahagan/Grogan, especially not with links to the Reddingtons.
It looks like Elizabeth didn't have much luck, as there's no sign of either of them in 1881, so I guess her third (I assume!) marriage didn't last too long either. :-\
Thanks for your help on the matter, if anything else comes to mind, do let me know, but I think for now I can consider this case officially cracked! ;D
Regards
Erin :)
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you can't get rid that easy ;D
1881 RG11; Piece: 3471; Folio: 10; Page: 15
5 Builders Court Heaton Norris
Elizabeth Gargon head widow 56 yrs hawker b Ireland
George Rigby lodger 48 yrs miller b Macclesfield
Agnes Rigby daur 10 yrs b Rochdale
Elizabeth Rigby daur 7 yrs b Rochdale
As we can't yet find a marriage to Cormick - perhaps she was just co-habiting with him. When I was searching around, there was a possibility of him in another marriage and that wife was still alive in 1871 with children - if it was indeed him.
And... this next bit could be a bit brilliant but as ever there's a catch ;D
1891 RG12; Piece: 2793; Folio 153; Page 14
12 Hamilton Street Heaton Norris
Elizabeth Gargan 69 yrs wardrobe dealer b Ireland Roscommon
Mary ??? daughter 49 yrs ditto 's assistant b
Martha Raut lodger 20 yrs domestic ?? b Cheshire Budsworth
This is the catch - Mary is transcribed as Gargan , 29 yrs
It looks like 'Smith' and perhaps 49 yrs to me.
BUT - we have Roscommon!
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Oh I do hope that this is the right one I'm following!
1901 RG13; Piece: 3286; Folio: 137; Page: 14
10 Basil Street Heaton Norris
Elizabeth Gargan head widow 74 yrs wardrobe dealer b County Roscommon
Mary Gargan daur 39 yrs single wardrobe dealer b Lancs Manchester
I have rechecked 1891 and Mary is married - I would appreciate a second opinion please re that entry.
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Not sure if it is relevant - but on FreeBDM the marriage is March 1866 - Elizabeth GARGON and William WILKINSON - no mention of REDINGTON ???
Trish
It's Cheshire BMD that has the alternatives- Gorgon and Redington for ELizabeth and William Wilkinson : STR/16/190
I simply found it interesting that FreeBDM (i.e. the GRO index) did not have the alternate name - Obviously only one name was forwarded to GRO.
Good luck with it all Erin
Trish
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Wow :o heywood,
you're doing such an amazing job on this one!
I have looked at the censuses you point out, and I think you're right about this Elizabeth being the same person, although as she's still Gorgan, it throws my Wilkinson theory out of the window, unless she reverted to have the same name as her kids.
The Roscommon reference matches what I already know about the Reddingtons too, so that's positive.
As for Mary, I agree with you about the transcription, I can't for certain say the name is Smith, but it's certainly not the same as Elizabeth's. I don't think the age is 29 either; I wonder if the transcriber looked at the 1901 census which has much clearer handwriting, and used the surname and age (-10) from that.
I don't have a daughter named Mary for her, but I do have a Maria born abt 1848, and I haven't accounted for her in these censuses.
If the transcribed age is correct, she would have been born abt 1862, and I suppose could have been in a boarding school or stopping at someone else's house on the night of the 1871 census. I'll have a look for her and get back to you.
Thanks again for all your help
Erin :)
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Hi Erin,
just to say that there is a Bridget born Manchester around 1860-62 in one of the censuses - I think it's the one with Cormick on it- 1871?
Also Trish I wasn't at all sure about why an alternative name is given. Cheshire gives several reasons including remarriage, alias; parent with different name etc.
It is interesting that in the John Reddington/ Catherine Doyle marriage, Cheshire has her as Doyle and also Grier.
Family search has her as Catherine Greham Reddington. I had an Irish 'uncle' (in the days when neighbours were all aunty and uncle) - he was called Graham but I was told that it was really Grehan/ Greham.
We are up against accents/ spellings/ literacy etc here but doing o.k. now I hope.
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I am sorry that I may now be straying into irrelevancy but following my previous post, I thought I would just check-
Cheshire BMD marriage 1843
Catherine Griar to Luke Doyle.
(Catherine is the mother of the young Elizabeth Reddington).
and there's a death for Luke Doyle 1847.
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Well spotted, heywood.
This explains why Mary Ann was recorded as Doyle in 1861; she must have actually been the daughter of Luke Doyle rather than John Reddington. I must make an amendment in my records. The Greham ref on IGI must really be Grier.
I wonder if any other of her children were actually Luke Doyle's. She's the only one I can find recorded as Doyle.
I have found one of the Gahagan children, Margaret, marrying Michael Craig and moving to Runcorn, but that's about all I've managed to get so far.
Again thanks for all your help
Erin :)
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Yes I saw that marriage and them in Runcorn. To be honest it is quite difficult with the spellings.
I am wondering if Elizabeth Reddington was married to Patrick Gahagan/ Gargan etc before they came to England.
There is a Bridget Reddington/ Patrick Callaghan marriage in Stockport but at the moment ... I haven't checked them on censuses. (yet) ;D
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Bridget and Patrick Callaghan are my 3x Great Grandparents, and I have them in every census up until 1901. They move to Leeds between 1861 and 1871. I challenge you to find them in 1861 though, it took me nearly a year!
I have noticed a Sarah Hawkins on IGI with mother Mary Reddington in the same batch as mentioned above, but I don't have time to search for them tonight as I'm off out :D
I'll pick up where I left off tomorrow.
Look forward to hearing if you find anything else,
Regards
Erin :)
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Going out -- Family to search for ::) can't believe it :o
Found them in 1861- easy ;D So do you have them in 1851 or I wonder did they arrive after that? Are John, Elizabeth and your Bridget brother and sisters?
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You can find Sarah Hawkins with parents George and Mary on 1861. George and Mary are on 1851 with a son, born 1846 in Ireland so they must have arrived between 1846-1851.
Mary moves to Liverpool at some time and then I lost them.
Perhaps we've exhausted them for a while ???
Best wishes
heywood
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I can't believe you found them so quickly!
I suppose it shows what a difference experience makes; it was in the days before I did first-name-only searches. It probably would have been helpful in finding them as Cullaughan. It never came up on soundex.
I think John, Elizabeth and Bridget are siblings, yes. Their father in John, I've got him on the 1851 census living with son John. I know it's him because Patrick and Bridget's marriage certificate says Brown Street as address for Bridget, though strangely, she's not there. I've found a possible for her in Leeds as a boarder with some other Reddingtons, but it's difficult to verify...
I think you're right about the Hawkins, it's difficult to say for certain she's a sibling anyway.
Regards
Erin :)
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You know I'd looked at 1851 census and mustn't have clicked with John senior.
I'm just 'talking out loud' now to go over what you have re the older Reddingtons.
1843 Luke Doyle m Catherine Griar (nothing to do with your case I know)
1847 Luke Doyle dies.
1850 (Jun quarter) John R marries Catherine Doyle
John must have been in England from at least beginning of 1850.
1851 census - Brown Street - John snr and John
the two Reddington children on that census are in fact Doyles.
1851 (December quarter) Bridget Reddington m Patrick Callaghan
do the witnesses at this marriage give any credence to these connections?
Erin I know you have researched them all especially your 3 x gt grandparents
so sorry if you have this already:
1851 Brown Street ( a couple of entries further on than the Reddingtons)
Patrick and Elizabeth Gahagen with a sister Bridget 21 yrs and a sister in law Mary 23 yrs. Both these are unmarried and listed under Gahagen but can't really both have the same surname.
Further on again, there is a Mary Calhagen with children including son Patrick 21 yrs, daughter Betty 23 yrs. (I think I saw a Betty living with Patrick and Bridget later).
well that's it again :)
best wishes
heywood
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Hi heywood,
Thanks once again, I had some of that info but not all. I never actually clicked that the Gahagans were on Brown Street too for some reason. I also never thought about the fact that an unmarried sister-in-law must be Elizabeth's sister? ???
Or maybe the 21 year old Bridget at that address is my 3x Great Grandmother?
I already had the entry for Patrick Callaghan and his family.
Patrick Callaghan and Bridget Reddington married on the 30th November 1851, Patrick aged 24 and Bridget aged 22, Both of Brown Street.
I have just checked the certificate, and I thought the witnesses were 2 unrelated people, but it turns out one of them was Mary Reddington! The other one is John Kelly, so not sure that helps, but could Mary Reddington be one of the 'sisters' staying with the Gahagans in 1851?
Hope I've made some sense; it seems we're raising more questions than we're solving! I suppose that's genealogy! ;D
Erin :)
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Mary Reddington (Hawkins) was married by then so perhaps that's not her. This leaves the vexing question of Mary Reddington - sister in law and Bridget Gahagen sister ???
Just to add to all the questions this is raising:
Hawkins have a 8 yr old Maria Devin - lodger -
John and Catherine have Devine lodgers
wish we could have some divine inspiration to help us here ;)
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;D
I don't know if you noticed, but on the Gahagan 1851 image it doesn't say 'do' under the Gahagan name for anyone other that Patrick, yet it does on the other households by the same emumerator. This raises the question as to whether the enumerator just forgot to write the surnames in for that entry, and so might not be suggesting that either of the sisters had the surname Gahagan.
I'm going to join you in the Devine hunt, for some reason that name rings bells, I don't know if it's just because of the census you mentioned, but I think they might hold some kind of clue.
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You are right re the 'do' bit- isn't it daft when I was looking at it I knew something was different but couldn't work it out! :-\