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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: mazeppa on Tuesday 18 September 07 11:57 BST (UK)
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Help needed please.
1841 census. Ham Waters HO107 Piece 466 Folio 7/12 Page 16
I have probable connection with Hoile as children's names fit with
a baptism list.
What I would like to know is the location of Ham Waters, would that have been in Ham or Eastry, which I know is a village as well as a district.
It does not appear on 1861 census. All the occupants were the usual 'Ag. Lab.' so I'm not looking at gentry here, although Felderland House appears
with Ham Waters on same details as above but Page 15.
Hoping someone can help.
Mazeppa
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Hi Mazeppa
Felderland (hamlet) was split between the parishes of Eastry (village) and Worth although I think Felderland House comes under Worth :-\
According to the National Archives catalogue, the 1841 census for Ham has the piece number HO 107/467 whilst there are a couple of entries for HO 107/466 -Eastry parish and Eastry hundred.
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
In the Tythe award schedule of Eastry, there is a John HOILE owning property/land at or named Felderland c1839 see http://www.kentarchaeology.org.uk/Research/Maps/EAY/02.htm
I'm not sure if this helps or confuses the issue further ::)
Casalguidi :)
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I've never heard of Ham Waters.
Perhaps it was the name the locals gave to a particular area of land with a lake or stream, & the enumerator took it to be the 'official' name.
Betty
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Hi, a little info on worth and surrounding area which may or may not help.
1. From the Church in WORTH there is a footpath that leads to HAM LANE (Ham being next village from Worth) this footpath carries on (to the Left is Hacklinge) and to the right which leads to EASTRY past HAM WOODS, this footpath also leads directly to FELDERLAND LANE pass Felder Cottage.
2. Felderland house (which is still standing) is classed as Worth.
3. There is also an area of wet meadow and dykes called HAM FEN, and also as you walk down Mill Lane and enter into HAM, there is a brigde which is called HAM BRIDGE, now as far as I know this dyke leads directly to Felderland Land near Felderland House.
4. John Hoile owned Felderland Pasture, Orchard, Garden, Stables and Plantation, HOUSE, Garden, Wood and Pasture totalling 11 acres.
5. There is also a William Hoile listed as occupying cottage and gardens there.
so maybe these are connected to the Ham Waters census description??
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Thank you all for your help, wonderful tour cam 18 - I can visualise it now and almost feel I've been there.
The wet meadow and dykes could mean as Betty said that Ham Waters was a local name, on the census the addresses run-
FELDERLAND HOUSE, John Hartnett Ind. + family and what appear to be two servants.
HAM WATER, no 'S', ? Waeakes / Waeatres Cock, Ag. Lab. + household.
GREAT HAY, James Gilham, Ag. Lab. + household.
HAM WATERS, Thomas Spain, Ag. Lab. + household.
Benjamin Hoile, Ag.Lab. + household.
GREAT HAY, Isaac Johnson, Ag.Lab. + household.
I wonder if these buildings were in reasonably close proximity or did the enumerator zig-zag all over the place ?
The John Hoile who owned 11 acres obviously had more money then my Ag.Lab.
I'm off now to search the Nat. archives, fascinating reading, might not bother with housework today !!!!
Cheers, Mazeppa
After thought. On marriage certs is it the norm to state Father 'deceased' if that applies, or is it hit and miss ?
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On marriage certs is it the norm to state Father 'deceased' if that applies, or is it hit and miss
Particularly it the earlier days of civil registration it was very "hit & miss" - I would say more often it is not stated even if he was ;)
Casalguidi :)
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Your most welcome, just hope the information helped more than hindered. The only puzzling things is that Felderland House, is situated in Felderland (Fenderland as sometimes referred to in older documents) Lane and is classed as being in Worth, not Ham.
I'l take a walk up to Ham tomorrow and try grab one of the old folk and see if they know anymore. Don't worry I'll let them go afterwards
Regards Claire
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Thanks Claire, I look forward to anything you may find, lovely afternoon for a walk.
Regards, Mazeppa
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Sorry its taken so long to get back to you, but you know what some old folk are like, you get em talking and your there for weeks!!!
Everyone I have spoken to, not one can give me a definite answer, but rumour seems to be..... Ham Waters is what is now called Ham Bridge along with the land up to felderland lane!!(Which you should beable to pick up on most maps, old and new). Now the bridge is classed as Ham, but immediately surrounding the bridge is farmland... now as far as the locals are concerned this wetland belonged to felderland farm and this runs right up to a orchard which stands near enough opposite felderland house (and to one side of the 'Cabin').
No houses in felderland lane called Ham Waters (not that I've discovered) one side of FH is Stackyard Cottage then felderland farm and cottages and the other side going towards eastry are fenelon and bramble cottage (semi detached old cottage, I would think was just one dwelling at some time) then oberland house and that's where worth ends. however, just thinkin as I am typing, the house opposite Felderland House is called the Cabin??? Cabin/Water???? Infact, A good friend of mine, lives in the cabin, so I'll have to ask him if he knows the history! The story goes on................
Have a lovely picture of felderland house, as it is today if you would like a copy
Hope I've confused you adequately as usual.
Regards Claire.
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Claire, family events conspired to stop me getting to grips with all this for several months, but, I'm picking up the reins again and raring to go.
You put in so much effort for me which I really appreciate, would it be possible to email the picture of Felderland House to me ?
Regards, Mazeppa
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I've enjoyed re-reading this thread. It's brought back happy memories of my childhood, when we used to visit my Great Uncle (I never knew my Grandparents, so he was the only one of that generation I knew)
We would get off the bus at the Deal road end, & walk along Felderland Lane, he lived the Sandwich road end, in a large house I think on the corner. He was a Nurseyman, & lived 'on-site'. I loved being taken round the greenhouses, & even now the smell of tomato plants brings these memories back.
I don't suppose the greenhouses are there now, & probably no-one left in the area who knew him.
Happy days :)
Betty
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Happy memories Betty, unfortunately I don't know this part of Kent, hope to visit one day and get the feel of the area.
Regards, Mazeppa
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Hello,
Pictures at the ready, just need your email.
Regards
Claire (cam18)
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Lovely thread, and I too enjoyed the walk. Hows about putting the pictures on this thread Claire? I for one would love to see them and I'm sure others would too. (if its allowed!)
Regards
Chrissi
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I would also love to see the pictures, pretty please ;D
Betty
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Am I allowed to post them on here? I am bound to get told off!!!! I am blaming you lot, ok? lol.
This is felderland House and a picture of its gardens.
I'l take a picture of the greenhouses for you betty when I am next up Felderland Lane
Regards
Claire
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Thank you Claire :) :) The gardens are lovely, it would be nice to sit there on a summer's evening with a cool drink ;D
I'll look forward to a picture of the greenhouses :)
Betty
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.....and thanks from me too for sharing your lovely pictures.
Chrissi
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Thank you so much for all your help Claire, on reflection I feel I must come from the 'Felderland' line and not the Hoiles !
Regards, Mazeppa
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Hi - I am also curious as to Ham Waters - I have recently moved to Eastry so intend to have a look around, but I think we are searching the same family. Benjamin Hoile, born 1790, is my fourth great grandfather. Be good to hear from you.
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Hi Kimbo,
How great that you are in Eastry, handy for all the research.
I've been wondering if Ham Waters was / is anything to do with Ham
Fen, the general area appears right and there is water involved. Must have been there somewhere as it's on the 1841 census.
Regards
Mazeppa
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I imagine you are right about Ham Waters/Fen being one and the same. Kent Wildlife Trust describes Ham Fen as being in ' The Lower Stour Wetlands'
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Hi Chrissi, My name is Cliff, son of Arthur Robinson, Grandson to Thomas Clement Robinson, Great Grandson of Joseph Robinson of Claines. Lots of gaps in my family tree, would be really good if we could chat and I could understand more of who I am.
Kind Regards
Cliff