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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Lancashire Lookup Requests => Lancashire => England => Lancashire Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: katefarr on Tuesday 18 September 07 06:56 BST (UK)
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Hello
I am trying to trace 2 seperate people on both these census for months without luck now I have an extra clues and still can't find either.
1: Catherine Hannah Gould born 1864-1865 (I cannot find her in the birth indexes but Jan to Mar 1865 is missing and can't be checked). I cannot find her on the 1871 or 1881 census. She was born in Liverpool, father is William Gould (birth details unknown) who was a publican but was deceased at the time of her marriage in 1885. I can find her on the 1891 and 1901 census after her marriage but not before. Her residence in 1885 when she married was Brook St, Chorley.
2. Mary Jones born 1835 in Buckley, Flintshire, Wales. Father is John Jones who was a potter and alive at the time of her marriage in 1856 at Rainford, Lancashire. It may be possible they were not in Lancashire at the time of the 1841 or 1851 census. Her residence at the time of marriage was Rainford.
Any help in either case would be very much appreciated.
Kind Regards
Kate
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Could this be Catherine?
1871 census RG10/3849 Folio 26
Cath Gould 9 b Liverpool
also listed on same page..
Mary Gould 15 b Liverpool
Louisa Gould 14 b Liverpool
St George's Catholic Schools, Prescot Rd, West Derby, Lancashire
Sue
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Hello Kate
Maybe, just maybe??
There is a Kate Gould, born in Liverpool in 1864 who is living in Preston as a servant to Robert Boardman.
1881 - RG11 Piece 4236 Folio 68 Page 2
If she married in Chorley, she would be in the right area.
Regards
AliceB
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Hello Kate
Just a possibility.....
On the Wales census for 1851 ref HO107/2501 Folio 501 Page 12 there is a Mary Jones aged 17 with a father called John who is a Potter. The whole family are said to originate from Mold, Flintshire which looks (to me) to be very close to Buckley (or vice versa).
Have you had a look at that one ?
DS ;)
ps I have assumed that you have access to the censuses but if not please let me know and I will post the full details for you if you wish.
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This looks (a little bit ;D) interesting.....
On the IGI http://www.familysearch.org/
Batch C098461 - Christening for a Mary Jones on 26/05/1836
at Buckley Mountain Independent, Mold, Flintshire
Parents John and Esther Jones
This ties in with the above 1851 census entry (where the mother is called Esther).
DS
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Could this be Catherine?
1871 census RG10/3849 Folio 26
Cath Gould 9 b Liverpool
also listed on same page..
Mary Gould 15 b Liverpool
Louisa Gould 14 b Liverpool
St George's Catholic Schools, Prescot Rd, West Derby, Lancashire
Sue
I tried to find out who would be the father of these and couldn't find a Louisa, but on looking at the image it appeared to me that the name looked more like Frances.
I believe I've found them in the 1861 census
226 Bedford Street, Toxteth Park, Lancashire
Lodging with Mary Ode? a butcher
Andrew Gould Lodger Mar 34 Brewers Drayman Derbyshire Belper
Catherine A Wife Mar 32 Ireland
Mary daur 6 Scholar Lancashire Liverpool
Frances daur 4 " " "
Ann daur 11 months " "
Frances Kitter Visitor Widow 50 Seamstress Ireland
RG9; Piece: 2702; Folio: 12; Page: 22
Does anybody agree with this?
Amendment made for incorrect age typed
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It certainly says 'Frances' in the 1871 census, if that's what you want a second opinion on.
In 1861 Frances was 4 not 6; their surname is written 'Gauld' but the 1841 census shows an Andrew Gould, 16, living in Belper.
Richard
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Kate
Back to question 2 again ;D
Just a little more evidence to be going on with.......
The same Jones family appear on the 1861 census in St Helens (RG9/2747 Folio 91 Page 63). This time, most of them are listed (by ditto marks) as being from Harleigh, Merionethshire ???
Mary is not shown with them, which (in this context) is a good sign since it means that she could well have been the Mary who married Peter in 1856.
The other older daughter, Catherine, is also missing from the family “line up” in 1861. This again is a good sign since she (according to an Ancestral File on familysearch.org) married in 1859.
In 1881 the parents are back in Wales (RG11/3565 Folio 25 Page 18) and their son, Paul, is staying with them. All three of them are shown as born in Buckley.
DS ;)
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Kate
In 1871 John and Esther are still in St Helens (RG10/3867 Folio 103 Page 14) and both are shown simply as born Flintshire. They have their two youngest daughters still with them, Martha who is married (her husband and first child are also there) and Esther who is unmarried.
I have, eventually, found the family in 1841 (transcribed as Lowes but definitely Jones on the original document) HO107/1409/7 Folio 4 Page 1.
As I said earlier, I have assumed (from your opening remarks) that you will be able to access these census references but if you cannot do so then please let me know and I will provide the full listings for you.
I have managed to almost convince myself that this is the correct family, but how convinced will you be ? ::)
There must be a good chance that it is them because, lets face it, there cannot be that many other people called Jones from Wales can there ? ;D ;D ;D
DS ;)
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Hi again
Well I have spent a few hours going over all the information and firstly I am pretty well convinced that you, DS has hit the nail on the head with finding Mary Jones and family :D :D :D. Thank you so much, everything matches with IGI and the census.
In regards to Catherine, I have seen the 1871 census page before and must have dismissed it because of the age, but for want of any other record that comes even close I think this may be the only possibility :-\. I am fairly convinced that the 1881 census page is the right one, although I must say how embarrassed I am considering my own name that I didn't think to look for a Kate Gould :-[ :-[ :-[. As for the 1861 census listing the father as Andrew Gould (her marriage certificate lists a William as her father), I guess it's possible that if her father was deceased at the time of her earlier life that she may not have known him well - he may very well have gone by his second name in either case or some other explanation ??? ???.
I thank you all very much for your time, I am so appreciative of all the information given.
Kind Regards Kate
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Is this William accounted for ?
1881 Census Lancashire
widow William GOLD
born 1844 Kendal
Westmorland, England
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Hi JJ
This may be the William I am looking for - where is Westmorland?
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JJ
I looked up the census information and it had his occupation as a Licenced Victualler, would you know what this occupation is as I've never heard of it before. My William was a Publican. I have also just found on the death index that a William Gold died in 1884 which is correct by the information that I have. It would seem that his wife was Isabella (whether this is Catherine's mother I am not sure). I know where Westmorland is now (I though it a town not a county).
Kate
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Licenced Victualler/publican - almost the same thing ;)
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Fantastic thanks Ruskie ;D
I pose another question then, I have found William on the following census 1851, 1871, 1881 and although other children are listed Catherine never comes up. It would seem this may be the right William but until I can connect him with Catherine in some way I am a little uncertain?? :-\
Regards Kate
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Is there an Anne? using the other form of Hannah? (Or Nancy or Susan)
I kept trying to post and couldn't as you 2 were posting... :D
Funny, as I didn't know what a publican was, and you didn't know what a victualler was... :D but I looked and found this...although Ruskie already knew the answer! ;D
http://www.sfowler.force9.co.uk/page_27.htm
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Hi JJ
Catherine's middle name is Hannah and Hannah/Annie was her daughter's name so I guess its possible she went by this name. As for siblings I am not sure of any which makes things hard. Thanks for the link, very helpful.
Kate
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and of course you need to make a connection!...We are just here to throw information at you ;D ;D ;D ;D...But you'll need to separate the wheat from the Chafe...J.J.