RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: bishopsb on Saturday 15 September 07 02:00 BST (UK)
-
I have a will of Leonard Bishop of Battle dated 1617 that I cannot decipher. I'm not sure the problem is the early modern english but really the handwriting that is difficult for me. Does anyone have experience with this?
I have seen Bob Trease's transcriptions of Bishop wills on the Sussex OPC's page, does anyone know how to contact him?
Thanks!!
-
Hello bishopsb,
The following RootsChat thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,234766.0.html
is a LEXICON of Genealogical Terms and Abbreviations.
If you go to that thread, and scroll down to Wills, you will find links to a number of threads about Wills with a reference to Old Writing in Wills which might help you.
It's rather fun reading old handwriting and it gets much easier with practice. And there are lots of RootsChatters who are willing to help.
Regards,
JAP
PS: Here is an extract from the linked thread in the Lexicon re Old Writing in Wills:
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/palaeography/
http://www.english.cam.ac.uk/ceres/ehoc/
http://www.scottishhandwriting.com/
and
http://www2.localaccess.com/marlowe/collier2.htm
http://www.jaydax.co.uk/genlinks/translatingsecretaryhand.htm
-
Thanks for your help, I've got the majority of it, just a few gaps left.
Here are some other links I found while looking around, in case anyone else is looking for the same information:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~genepool/oldalpha.htm
http://www.iltrails.org/handwritingA-T.html
-
Hi bishopsb,
Do scan your 'gaps' and let us try our "skills" on them :D
I like your further links!
You might like to suggest on:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,234767.0.html
that this thread should be added to the LEXICON.
JAP
-
O.k. First, sorry for the delay . . . somehow "translating" 17th century wills winds up at the bottom of one's "to do" pile!
You will see my hangups in these files - for now my biggest problem is that on the second page, after the "probatum" section, I think "In the name of God amen" starts another person's will. You will see reference to "my brother James Needham," and I don't see how James Needham could be Leonard Bishopp's brother.
I am hoping to get the section regarding daughter Debora's inheritance dependent upon her marriage and approval of the marriage a bit clearer.
Any input at all is appreciated!
-
Here's the original
-
Hi bishopsb,
Just a quick response initially - to say that, yes, after the 'Probatum' paragraph, another Will begins.
It is the Will of Sir John Needham of Litchborough, Northamptonshire.
Here's an extract from:
http://www.mkheritage.co.uk/wdahs/Thornton/docs/tyrellinfo.html
At Litchborough, near Towcester, Northamptonshire, is an altar tomb with alabaster effigy of a knight in armour to Sir John Needham, and above this a wall monument records his death as 15 November 1618. The inscription reads: ‘Sr. John Needham late of Litchborough in the countie of Northampton Knight Marryed Elizabeth Watson one of the Daughters of Sr. Edward Watson of Rockingham Castle in the said countie Knight deceased. Shee erected this Monument for him the said Sr. John Needham Anno Domini 1633 after shee was married to Sr. Edward Tyrrell of Thornton in the Countie of Buck Knight and Baronett’.
JAP
-
Hi bishopsb :)
Your first gap reads "goode & (perfect mynde)"
I'm about to have lunch but I'll pop back later and see if I can get some of the rest of it ;)
Prue
-
Hi again bishopsb,
You seem to have most of it.
Here's the section about Debora as I read it - my additions don't add a lot to the meaning.
********************
Item I give and bequeath unto Debora one of my Daughters fyve pounds
of lawfull money of England provided allwayes that she my sayed Daughter Debora
shall and do marry with the consent and good liking of Edmond Haye gentleman my brother
in law and Goddard Foster gentleman Then my will and meaning ys And then I doe
hereby give and bequeathe unto her my saied Daughter Debora fortie and five poundes mone(y)
to be payed unto her the saied Debora in the two(?) monethes next after the sayed Edmond Haye
and Goddard Foster shall give theire Consents unto the marriage of my saied Daughter
Debora Item my will and meaning is that my Executor hereunder named shall give and allowe
unto my saied Daughter Debora the use benefitt and profitt of the saied fortie and five
poundes so long as she shall keep her selfe sole and unmaryed vizde fower poundes per Ann(um) to be
payed unto her the saied Debora by my Executor hereunder named at the twoe usuall Feastes
or tearmes in the yere that is to saye at the Feastes of the Annuntiacon (sic) of our blessed Ladie St
Marie the virgin and St Michael the Archangell by equall portions the first payment thereof
to begynne at the first of the saied Feasts which shall first happen next after my Decease.
********************
JAP
-
Sister Sara got his 'litle gould Rynge'.
And near the end he wrote 'concerning the Disposing of my Landes Tenements and Hereditaments in Battell' which, as you say, were to be divided equally between the three daughters Mary, Elizabeth and Priscilla.
JAP
-
Fantastic JAP, that certainly clears it up. It would seem there was not a husband in mind for Debra then, correct?
Prue - I *thought* it might have said that, but I didn't think someone would claim to have a "perfect mind"!! Geez!
Thanks very much!
-
A couple more sections.
**********
And first and princi
pallie as Christian dutie fyndeth me: I give and commend my soule into the handes of my most
blessed Lord and Savyoure Jesus Christ my onlie maker and Redeemer and my bodie to the Earth to
be reverentlie and christianlie buryed in the Churchyarde of Battell aforesayed neere unto
my kynnesfolkes and Alies
**********
and
**********
Item my will and meaning is that my Executor hereunder named shall bestowe at the Daye of my
buryall to be spent towards the Enterteynement of such of my Neighboures as shall goe to church
with me at my Funerall the somme of tenne poundes to be Disboursed in manner and forme
following that is to saye At the house of Edward welshe of Battell aforesaied fourtie shillings
At the house of David Jefferie thirtie shillinges At the house of John Langley thirtie shillinges
At the house of William Hull(?) thirtie shillinges. At the house of Richard Eldridge thirtie
shillinges At the house of Edmond Pullen thirtie shillinges At the house of Alice Hayward widowe tenne shillinges
**********
Regards,
JAP
-
Wow - thanks!
What is the "at the house of" referring to? Does this mean the same as "and his family"?
And he is setting money aside for entertainment at the funeral?
-
Hi again bishopsb,
Leonard was obviously determined to have a fine old send-off! Ten quid would have bought a fine spread of funeral meats (not to mention ales)! And I always thought it was the Irish who were the best at holding extravagant wakes!
Re your question about 'at the house', I don't know.
I think I've done enough of the Will now - though, if you're keen for a particular word, do give a yell and I'll try :)
JAP
-
Ok - I have it all except one word, anyone want to have a look?
First line on the last page, "hereunto put my hand and seal and have _____ this my last will to be read and published"
Also JAP and PrueM -- I plan to send this to the Sussex OPC wills database, if you want to, PM me and I'll give you credit for your much appreciated help !
-
Is it "and have caused this my last will to be read and published"?
Koromo
:)
-
Hello bishopsb, No 'credit' required - glad to have been of some use. And yes, Koromo has the missing word.
Cheers,
JAP
-
Koromo - perfect! thank you!!
and thanks again JAP!