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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Albertan on Thursday 13 September 07 20:18 BST (UK)
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Just received my grandmother's birth certificate and it says she was born in 1871 in Little Bolton at 9 Hartley Street. Also there is no father listed on the certificate. Well, Well, Well.
I know where Bolton is but have never heard of Little Bolton. Could it be Little Hulton?
Hope someone can answer this question.
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Hi Albertan,
A very warm welcome to Rootschat.
Little Bolton was part of the Parish of Bolton le Moors see:
http://www.genuki.org.uk:8080/big/eng/LAN/Bolton/
Regards,
Mo
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Thank you Mosiefish,
Good site about Bolton. I ran a map for Little Bolton but didn't help me very much. I do know Bolton as I went to school there when I lived in Atherton. Where in regard to the centre of Bolton is Little Bolton? Very interesting that you sign yourself Mo. My nickname is Mo.
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Hi.
Little Bolton was/is North of Bolton Centre heading towards Sharples. Sort of inbetween Dean Brook and the River Croal.
Just done a "google" - Try googling [ map "bolton Parish" ] ignore the brackets. The first hit should be Bolton Museums - Bolton Parish map. Click on Cached and if it is split just hit the refresh button.
Ah, always seem to have been Mo even though it`s really Maureen,
Regards,
Mo
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From Maureen to Maureen
Just googled map "Bolton Parish". Good map. Atherton is south of Westhoughton. I know a lot of these places but I am not familiar with the area of Little Bolton. Had a friend in Heaton and spent a lot of weekends in my teens there. I also know Westhoughton, Horwich and Rivington very well.
My grandmothers (Mary Elizabeth Pomfret b. 1871) mother Mary Abigail Pomfret would have come from Atherton so she seems to be quite a way from home and a single mother. However, Mary Elizabeth was raised by her grandmother in Atherton. Hope that makes sense.
Cannot find Mary Abigail Pomfret anywhere.
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Hi,
When you say you cant find her anywhere do you mean on the census?
1871 I think she is lodging with a Jane McCale and family in Little Bolton. aged 23 and born Chowbent. (Mary Abigail Pomfret).
1881 I think she is still unmarried and Boarding in Habergham Eaves, Burnley aged 32 and again born Chow Bent. This time she is just down as Abigail.
If you would like the full details let me know.
Kind regards,
Mo
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Hi again,
Death registered of a Mary Abigal Pomfret Sept. Qtr. 1885 Bolton Volume 8c Page 194. age 34. Age is always dependent on who actually reports the death.
Regards,
Mo
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Hi Mo,
Thank you for your investigation.
I don't have access to 1871 census but did look on the LDS 1881 census but could not find Mary Abigail.
Is she lodging at 9 Hartley Street?
Great information. I would be grateful for the full details.
By the way Chowbent is the old name for Atherton.
Regarding death of Mary Abigail Pomfret. Reference her age I think age is close enough. How would I get a death certificate as I don't have free Ancestry anymore.
Thanks again for the information.
Mo
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Hi Mo,
1881 LDS site she is just Abigail Pomfret, birth c1849, Lancashire Chow Bent. Just enter Abigail Pomfret born 1849 + or - 1 year , Lancashire and she is the only one.
1871 census:
14 Dale Street, Little Bolton
RG10/3934 Folio 117 page 19
Jane Mc Cale, Head, Mar, 27, Tailoress, Bolton
John Mc Cale, Son, 5, Scholar, Bolton
Ellen Mc Cale, Daur, 3, Scholar, Bolton
Cornelius Mc Cale, Son 4 months, Infant, Bolton
Mary Abigail Pomfret, Lodger, U, 23, Frame Tenter in Cotton Mill, Chowbent
Living at 9 Hartley Street, Little Bolton in 1871 was:
George Entwistle, Head, Mar, 21, Brewer, Lancashire Edgworth
Ellen, Wife, Mar, 21, Housekeeper, Bolton
Esther Norris, Visitor, U, 18, Cotton Winder, Bolton
So no help there!
Using the Volume No., Page No., Place, Year and Quarter that I supplied in previous mail you can order the death certificate from www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates . You have to register but it is only so they know where to send the certificate to.
Regards,
Mo
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Very approximately Little Bolton was the area just North of the town centre (which was part of Great Bolton). They were merged into Bolton in the mid-19th Century but the name was used for that area into the early 20th Century.
I have the 25" to the mile 1895 map of Lancashire if you want to see where Hartley Street was (if I can find it!)
Martin Briscoe
Fort William
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Hi Mo,
Thanks a lot for the info. Will check 1881 census. I believe the census is usually taken in the Spring so she could have moved to Hartley Street between Spring and August when her child was born.
Thanks for the website for certificates. Will investigate.
Bye for now,
Mo
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Hi JMB123
Glad for your interest. More the merrier.
It will be interesting to see the old map of Bolton.
See you have relatives in Canada - interesting.
Once again thanks for your interest.
Mo
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Hi mosiefish and JMB123
Thank you both for all your information. I have all that a need.
Thanks again.
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Hi Mo
Lan-OPC site http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/ has a baptism for:
Abigail Pomfret on 14/3/1847
Atherton Chapel, St John the Baptist, Atherton
Mother was Mary & she was base-born, so looks like the pattern repeated itself.
Regards
SandraC
PS loads of Pomfrets in Atherton / Chowbent at that time
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Hi SandraC.
Thanks for the information. Not sure I want to go any further with this as I don't know what I will find. Also have a horse thief in this side of the family.
How do you put family names and locations on the bottom?
Mo
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Hi SandraC.
This is getting quite interesting.
First Abigail gives birth without being married then Mary her mother was not married according to your message.
On the 1861 Census it shows Betty Pomfret age 56 living at Dan Lane Atherton
Then shows Mary (widow) age 35 the children -
Abigail age 14; Thomas age 9; Henry age 7; James age 3; Ellen age ?; Martha age 1 month.
If Mary Pomfret it living with her mother and is supposed to be a widow why would her name still be Pomfret?
This is not looking good.
You looked at the Baptism for Abigail is it possible you could look for Baptisms of the other children????
Thanks in anticipation.
Mo
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Hi Mo
When you are logged in, click on the button at the top marked "profile", when the screen opens, click on the link on the right "Rootschat profile information"
Then you will get the "edit profile" screen & some way down is the box for your research names, which will then appear at the bottom of your posts.
Can't see the other baptisms currently, sorry - may be that they are in places not yet transcribed?
Good luck
SandraC
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On the 1861 Census it shows Betty Pomfret age 56 living at Dan Lane Atherton. Then shows Mary (widow) age 35
Hello Mo
I have just had a look at the 1861 census entry to which you refer and I think that Mary is described as Unmarried.
Although the two "symbols" used by the enumerator are very similar, if you look closely at them, there are slight differences.
I think that Betty Pomfret (immediately above Mary) is ascribed a “W” and Mary is ascribed “Un”.
I am not certain. Maybe someone else could have a look ?
Mary is certainly shown as unmarried in 1851. Betty appears also in 1851, again shown as Widow and she seems to be listed as the daughter of a Martha Hope, Widow aged 78. (Leigh HO107/2205 Folio 271 Page 27).
DS
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Hi DS
Thanks for your involvement. Very good information.
You could be right about the symbols.
On the 1861 census Mary has 6 children and unmarried??? By 1871 she has married Robert Grime and living at 16 Water Street, Atherton. Coincidentally this is where my grandparents lived
Cannot believe how this as turned out as I only wanted to know who my grandmother's parents were. I always believed that she was adopted but she was actually raised by her grandmother Mary Grime (nee Pomfrett).
Not sure where Dan Lane is. There is a Dan Lane Mill and the short street along side of it is called Lee Street and the main street in front of it I think is Tyldesley Road. On the other side of the Mill is a row of small shops and there were some cottages behind them at one time.
Thanks again for the information.
Mo
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Hi Mo
Do you have access to all of the census entries or would you like the details to be posted ?
The marriage of Robert Grime and Mary Pomfrett took place at Leigh Register Office in the third quarter of 1873. They appear together at Water Street on the 1881 census.
DS
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Hi DS
I only have access to the 1881 census on LDS. Any information you can give me will be greatly appreciated.
Mo
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1851
Leigh HO107/2205 Folio 271 Page 27
Martha Hope Head W 78 Pauper (Cotton Weaver) Lancaster *
Betty Pomfrett Daur W 46 House Helper Lancaster Atherton
Mary do Gran Daur U 25 Silk Weaver Lancaster Atherton
Alice do Gran Daur U 23 Silk Weaver Lancaster Atherton
George do Gran Son U 20 Coal Miner Lancaster Atherton
Sarah do Great G. Daur 11 Silk Weaver Lancaster Atherton
Enoch do Great G. Son 5 Scholar Lancaster Atherton
Abigail do Great G. Daur 4 Scholar Lancaster Atherton
Ellen do Great G. Daur 3 Lancaster Atherton
Ann do Great G. Daur 1 Lancaster Atherton
Crab Tree Road, Atherton
*I cannot read where Martha was from. It has been transcribed as Rummeth. Possibly meant to be Rumworth (near Bolton) ?
DS
ps I am not a super fast typist (just the opposite) ;D but I had already started this in anticipation.
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1841
Leigh HO107/513/4 Folio 31 Page 18
Henry Hope 64 Ag Lab
Martha do 60
Henry do 20 Coal Miner
Betty Pomfrit 36 Silk Weaver
Alice do 13
George do 10
Sarah 17mo
Harrison Fold, Atherton
All born in County.
DS
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These might be yours.....
IGI Batch C032932
http://www.familysearch.org/
Christenings at Atherton
Mary Hope 03/02/1799 (died 1806)
Martha Hope 22/03/1801
Elizabeth Hope 21/10/1804
Thomas Hope 11/10/1807
James Hope 09/04/1815
Henry Hope 15/10/1820
Parents Henry & Martha Hope
DS
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Hi DS
You are good.
Lots of information to disect.
Are you sure it is Crab Tree Road as I only know a Crab Tree Lane in Atherton. It is where the Post Office used to be.
Thanks for all your input.
This has turned out very interesting. I am really investigating the Harvey's (my grandmother Mary E Pomfret married Arthur Harvey) and I have a lot of information on them but get nowhere once I hit N. Ireland in 1862/63. No suprise to anyone.
Thanks again.
Mo
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Hi Mo
Found some baptisms further back:
Mary Pomfret b 4/1/1826, bap 5/3/1826 at Protestant Dissenting Chapel, Chowbent
daughter of Enoch & Betty Pomfret of Atherton
Siblings [all same Protestant Dissenting Chapel]:
Ann b 19/5/1824 bap 29/81824
Alice b 19/4/ 1828 bap 22/71828
George b 30/6/1830 bap 3/9/1830
These fit with the 1841 census information.
Also:
Burial of Enoch Pomfret at Chowbent Chapel
4/1/1832 age 27
occupation nailer
Regards
SandraC
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Hi Mo
The 1851 census entry definitely shows the address as Crab Tree Road.
On the Description of the Enumeration District both Crab Tree Road and Crab Tree Lane are shown.
Hi SandraC
Excellent Information 8)
Elizabeth (Betty) Hope must have married Enoch Pomfret somewhere between 1820 and 1824 but I cannot find the marriage at the moment.
DS
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Hi Mo & DS
Can't find the marriage either but baptism of Enoch Pomfret is 1804 so tends to imply nearer to 1824 than 1820 ;D
Tried IGI, batch search, BIVRI & Lan-OPC but nothing ???
Baptism:
Protestants Dissenting Chapel, Chowbent
Born 31/5/1804 Bap 23/6/1804
Enoch, son of Geo & Ann Pomfret of Atherton
Regards
SandraC
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Not sure where Dan Lane is.
Hi Mo
I found this reference to Dan Lane on here (Another section of the site that SandraC provided)
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Atherton/indexi.html
"Dan (Hatton) Lane was one of the oldest roads in Atherton, renamed Tyldesley Road, possibly when the new road to Tyldesley was constructed across Chanters Brook in 1899."
DS
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Hi DS
Went into the website and found it very interesting. Also looked at deaths in the pits in Atherton also very interesting as most of my family worked in the coal mines.
So Dan Lane is now Tydlesday Road.
Mo
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Hi SandraC.
Thanks for the information. Not sure I want to go any further with this as I don't know what I will find. Also have a horse thief in this side of the family.
How do you put family names and locations on the bottom?
Mo
Somewhere in the profile settings
In one line of the (distant) branch of the family I was told of three being hung and ten transported! All adds a bit of colour to the file. Most people were jealous when I told them.
Martin
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Hi Albertan,Mo
I have Harvey connections and I also live in Northern Ireland. Perhaps if you give me a few more details re. your Arthur Harvey I may be able to find something out my end.
Regards
Aljepeka
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Hi aljepeka,
Thank you for replying. I have had a lot of emails regarding Harvey's this last few years but no connection as yet. I posted on myirishancestry and got a reply with a list of names corresponding to my gtgradparents Patrick Harvey b. 1826 and Rose Harvey (nee McNally) b. 1831. The first five children were born in Co. Armagh before they came to England approx. 1863. The next 6 children were born in Leigh, Lancashire. The list contains 5 births for Patrick Harvey in Co. Armagh and 1 marriage. 3 births for a Rose McNally and 3 marriages. No records for Alice b. approx 1853. 8 births for a Mary Harvey. 4 births for a Thomas Harvey. 4 births for a Patrick Harvey jr. 2 births for a Peter Harvey. Apparentyly these are all on Armagh Ancestry but at 10 eauros a shot it will be very expensive to check every one of these records. Trying to narrow the search. Hope you can help