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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: justmej on Wednesday 12 September 07 23:54 BST (UK)
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Taking advantage of the 'Heritage Days' last weekend, I visited a hall and grounds, which once belonged to the Bowes-Lyons and is now owned by the National Trust. My greatest interest with the estate was that some of my ancestors had lived, worked and died there, so I was eager to visit (again).
I was having a lovely day, seeing all the places and buildings my family had once lived. While having a break in the sunshine, we were approached by a National Trust Volunteer, who enquired if we had travelled far and if it was our first visit. Of course, I just HAD to tell her that my ancestors had once lived in these historic buildings and of course she asked their surnames ...............
Next thing we are being taken upstairs inside one of these buildings, to a part not accessible to the public. Wow!!!! there in front of me was a wall, which has been 'found', where people have written their names, with dates from the late 1800's and even the time of day against some dates and most of these names were MY FAMILY!!! Four, possibly five different surnames appear on this wall, all branches from the same family. What a discovery - I am still in absolute shock :o :o :o ! We were allowed to take photographs and this picture is just a small area of it and although the date appears to be '97' this would be 1897. I need some suggestions as to what the words are before Stark and Maugham - I have an inkling, but as it might be wishful thinking on my part, would like some other opinions.
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How wonderful for you! :D
I would say Jno. Maugham (short for John) but not sure about Stark, possibly a short form of George although the first letter looks more like the S of Stark - do your photos include any other definite capital G s?
Barbara
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Thanks for that suggestion Barbara ..... never thought about John and yes, there was a John Maugham in that time frame, so a good possibility ;D . Unfortunately, that is the only area of the wall I have in that particular handwriting.
As far as the Stark goes, was thinking more on the lines of a shortened version of a title, as opposed to a christian name, as can see what appears to be a : after the letters. Do agree that the first letter appears to be 'S' though!
justmej
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It looks to me like Serj Stark, as in Sergeant :-\
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I LOVE your story justmej! How exciting!
Can't help with the "translation" sorry, but I thought "S" too.
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Madpants - just brilliant ;) !!!! Just what I was hoping someone would come up with, my thoughts exactly - he was indeed a policeman and went on to become a Superintendent, but before I got too excited that it was my G.Grandfather's name, thought I would ask for some suggestions from others.
Now the Maugham, although Barbara has suggested Jno. as short for John and this is probably correct, can anyone see any other possiblity besides Jno.?
And thanks for your comments Ruskie ..... I'm just SOooooo delighted!!!!! I might not have a family bible, but there's a family wall, owned by the National Trust ;) .
justmej
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How about Leo ???? ..... I agree about the Serj !!
Annie :)
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Justmej,
Just wondering what room was it that your ancestors wrote their names? And do you know why? Was it just names and dates? (like a time capsule or a bit of early 19th century graffiti)
I'll bet you're still on cloud nine!
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I think it's Jno. The only other thing I could make out of it would be Iro, which would be a weird name!
And I THINK it's Serg, not Serj, for what it's worth!
MarieC
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I know just how you feel, justmej. Isn't it just the greatest excitement?
Same sort of thing happened to me one day....took my parents to visit the Port Adelaide Maritime Museum, and part of the Museum is an old lighthouse that was dismantled and then restored on the dock there. While inside looking at some of the relics gathered up from the old lighthouse sight, I started to read a poem that had been found in a bottle along with other papers and coins.....another little time capsule left by the original builders of the lighthouse. Imagine my surprise when I read the name at the end to discover that it was my great grandfather Ehmcke! As ours is the only family of that name in South Australia, it had to be him.
I shrieked so loudly that the poor volunteer sitting at the door came rushing in to see what was wrong. I was lucky enough too to be given photo copies of the poem and the names of all the men who had worked on erecting that lighthouse.
......dee
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Some people have all the luck!
How lovely
Barbara :D
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Wow, how exciting for you. Way to be in the right place at the right time.
for what it's worth, I agree with Liverpool Annie. I kind of see Leo.
Kath
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Thanks for all your suggestions. I agree this is probably John Maugham (Jno). On realising that above his name was my G. Grandfather Serg: Stark, got it into my head it could possibly be Ins Maugham. Truthfully, cannot find any police connection with this family, so Jno it will be (Kath & Annie - no Leo's that I know of ;D ).
Dee, I agree it is so exciting when you find something like this and when you least expect it! What a fabulous find for you too!
Ruskie, am still on cloud nine, or ten, or .........
The names were found on a bare wall (to be confirmed exactly where on the estate they were found), although I would not be surprised if it was found in it's present location, which is in a room above the estate stables (see pic of the Hall and the Stables). Although they lived in various locations throughout the estate, the Maugham family lived at the stables in 1881 (the accommodation being above the stables). What is interesting, they had recorded their weights against their names, as well as the date. The theory is, that this was probably a granary and as it would involve 'weighing', the families took the opportunity to have a 'weigh-in' and recorded it. I think :-\ they must have wanted to be found, by later generations, otherwise why record it on a wall and with so many names from the same family. One date even has the time 'at 1 o'clock' against it ....
justmej
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And the one recording the time!
justmej
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That is fascinating justmej! So are you saying that the wall may have been moved even though you expect it's in it's original location? Will the NT be leaving the wall as is? Hope they're not planning to redecorate!
Amazing that it's still there, and amazing that you found it!
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Yes - it is truly a wonderful find, and so unusual! Some of us have found bits about our family in odd places, but I really think you take the prize, justmej! And it was so much a stroke of luck that you mentioned your ancestors to the right person! Spooky :o :o :o
MarieC
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Yes, it was quite spooky and I could so easily have missed this - does not bear thinking about!
Ruskie, it was mentioned that they were unsure if the wall was in it's original place of discovery. Did think "how do you move a wall" :-\ ? However, have received a message today to say that the wall is in the place where it was found. As for decorating - they had better not!!!! This is not on view to the public, although I have been told to 'phone and we can visit again to take further photographs (am sure we have missed some of the writing in my excitement!!!).
A few more snippets - they could even 'belong' to someone else on here and not just mine!!!
justmej
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And two more ...... one of Alice Maugham, my G.Grandmother!
justmej
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Do you think it would be worthwhile contacting the National Trust to see what their intentiions are and ask for the "graffiti" to be preserved?
I wonder if they always knew the writing was there, or if they discovered it in the process of renovation? Those streaks look like paint marks (?).
If they had intentions of redecoration, perhaps they could leave the writing and put some glass/perspex to protect it and a spiel explaining who the people are and when they lived there - maybe you could help with that ;)?
You know what can happen in these places - they may convert a barn into tea rooms or a souvenier shop .... Having said that, a NT property has got to be one of the best (most likely to be preserved) places to find something of your relatives.
Even better, they could set it up in the way it would have been when your family lived there - now that would be interesting.
Enjoy your next visit!
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Along with the e-mail I received, it did say if I had any questions for their archaeologist then not to hesitate in asking .... so that will be one of them .... "what are their plans for the wall"?
The Stables have already been renovated and the wall still remains, so hopefully, that will continue. It does appear to have some patches of newly skimmed plasterwork, up to the point of where the writing is, so it seems they must have intended to 'save' this part of the wall. Not sure what the white marks resulted from :-\ .
Unaware if they already knew about the writing, or if it was discovered when work began .... another question to ask.
Have already sent the N.T. information on the family names, as well as a photograph of my GG.Grandparents. I had to e-mail the information, as at the time of my visit they switched a tape recorder on, but I was so excited I couldn't remember exactly who was who, so that wouldn't be of much use!
My own family room - now that would be nice!!!!!
justmej
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It's a great find justmej! Lucky you :D
I don't think they'll do anything to compromise the wall, at Richmond Castle they've preserved the wall that the CO's signed although I'm not sure if it's open for public viewing.
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Oh that IS good justmej - and seems to indicate they intend to keep the wall as is. Good luck with it all - and let us know how it goes - I'm so jealous!
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We have a historic landmark near me that fell to ruin and is being restored. It isn't as old, built in the 1920s-ish (a castle built on an island for the love of a wife, who before completion left her husband for another man -- rumor the contractor). There is tons of graffiti in the building as kids and young adults used to go over when it stood empty to have a good time, explore, party, etc. They are preserving some of it, as part of history and the life of the castle. It all tells a story.
Kath
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Sorry to make you jealous ;D ;D ;D. Will let you know what happens.
Pleased to hear that other places have had their 'graffiti' preserved too.
justmej
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Hello justmej, YES, this looks to be yet another "proof" that was family connections between Gibside and old Hollinside! ;D How wonderfully exciting for you. I'll study those wall photos closer when I get back home. What a wonderful find AND how lucky you are that that volunteer really knew the history of Gibside and the families who lived and worked there. Pat.
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Hi Pat, as you say further 'proof' to the connection between the families, although this lot were a little further down the line. Will have to check the walls at Hollinside next ;D ;D ;D.
justmej
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Hello justmej, Yes, by all means, DO check those gorgeous old stone walls that remain at old Hollinside! Family history sometimes can be a combination of serendipity, happenstance, luck and/or a peculiar concatenation of various factors. In any event, you are truly one fortunate lass! Pat
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Absolutely fascinating! Thanks for adding the pictures, if you have any more I would be interested to see them.
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Hello Linda
Thanks for your interest. Would your Maughan family be from the same area?
I think I have posted just about all of the pics that I have at the moment, although, as mentioned earlier, I do intend to return and take more, as I'm sure I have missed some.
For everyone else who showed an interest in this, I have been informed that the National Trust try to preserve EVERYTHING they find, so that is wonderful news to the memory of my ancestors!
justmej
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I will check details from my family tree files and pm you. I'm just on my way to bed, it's 10.20pm here (in Spain) and I have to be up early tomorrow. Your posts have been very interesting to follow